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 spiritinthesky112
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 Hellen Keller and perception
#15702678 - 01/22/12 03:06 PM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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So maybe I am over thinking things, or maybe I'm just an asshole. I personally have a hard time believing the Hellen Keller story. There is no way that they could teach her to do any of the things she did and have her actually understand them. The other day while partaking in certain acts of Tom foolery my friend and i got into this debate. So my conspiracy theorem is that Hellen Keller actually could not comprehend what was going on, but was rather like a trained animal. They taught her with treats and such(and possibly beatings, who knows it was a long time). So, am I just an asshole or does anyone agree with my theory? Any Other Hellen Keller conspiracies
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 sloantbone
Stranger from the Cosmos
 
Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 423
Loc: Canada 
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Hi Spiritinthesky, thank you for this discussion.
So what reason do you suppose that the creators of the story would have for making up such a fictional story?
There appears to be quite a few people who went on record in saying the story of Hellen Keller was real.
I think stories like hers helps to raise awareness that often people seen with disabilities are still quite human and should not been viewed as "not comprehend what was going on, but was rather like a trained animal"
I believe that Hellen Keller was a real event that happened.
Her story helped shaped my outlook on blind people.
However, I have also learned that one can never be too sure about anything, so just as much as I feel her story is real, you may also be quite correct that it was fictional.
(Rare!) Helen Keller & Anne Sullivan (1930 Newsreel Footage)
I think the movie "The Elephant Man"
helped us to understand that just because the body is handicapped,
the real part of being human, the "Spirit", which is trapped inside the body, is valuable.
Elephant Man
Edited by sloantbone (01/22/12 03:48 PM)
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spiritinthesky112
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: sloantbone]
#15703036 - 01/22/12 04:04 PM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Money would be the reasoning. I think that if this happened what was done to her was terrible. I don't doubt the fact that she was deaf and blind, or even that she read aloud things she read using Braille. I just dont think she could comprehend things because she only had 3 senses left to try to understand with. They just physically cant get certain thoughts into her head lacking these (arguably the two most important) senses. I'm guessing your taking the side of what I sad was rude, but I am not trying to be rude. I just dont see it as Possible.
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spiritinthesky112
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: sloantbone]
#15703046 - 01/22/12 04:06 PM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Also, this is off topic, but how do you get a rating?
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spiritinthesky112
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I'm sure Hellen Keller was extremely smart to learn the things she did but I believe she was made almost a side show. She just can't be privy to the same universe that we are.
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sloantbone
Stranger from the Cosmos
Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 423
Loc: Canada
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I'm not too sure what you mean by rating....unless you are talking about Market Place.( the link becomes visible once your membership to this site hits that time)
I know to get into Market Place you have to be a member for awhile. I think it might be 3 or more months etc...but someone else will know.
I know another rating system is involved once you get into Market Place is based on other members you deal with from Market place giving their feedback into a system that is based on your profile.
I can definitely understand your thinking about Hellen being able to understand what people were trying to convey to her if she was deaf, dum and blind.
I actually was wondering a while ago, what blind people saw when they were dreaming.
I was surprised to learn that if someone was blind since birth, they did not ever see images in their dreams, no did they see colors.
I've met a great deal of folks in my life, that had eyes and working vision, but yet, they could not see.
So my guess is, there are probably people without eyes or ears that can comprehend what others with eyes and ears, can't.
The biggest lesson in life I discovered, was, the more I think I know, the more I am discovering that I really don't know much.
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spiritinthesky112
Stranger
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: sloantbone]
#15703580 - 01/22/12 05:52 PM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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I was talking about the little mushroom things under my name... But there are some now so I have no idea ha ha. Like you stated earlier, blind people born blind will never understand sight, the same with the deaf. If one were to be missing both of those it would be impossible to comprehend our world missing our (arguably) two most important senses that we use to interpret EVERYTHING.
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sloantbone
Stranger from the Cosmos
Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 423
Loc: Canada
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perhaps
It depends on how you view this illusion we call life.
In my humble opinion, this body which we posses is a kind of biological container, a kind of machine so to say that our Soul possess.
Therefore, even if we have no sight, no ears, no voice, I would imagine the conscience awareness inside the mind is aware and thinks.
Many animals possess no language skills but are still able to think, reason and react in an intelligent way.
Certain species of whales while interacting with humans are unable to hear human sounds, however they respond instead to visual cues for communication and interaction.
I also believe we have more than just five senses, so it might be possible that those extra senses, which are not always taught in main stream science as not always considered.
It's a great question that you asked.
The Mushroom under my name is my avatar. I just found a nice photo on the net, and copied the web address in the avatar section.
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spiritinthesky112
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: sloantbone]
#15704050 - 01/22/12 07:08 PM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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I see where you are going. Hellen keller's perception of things would be unadulterated from outside stimuli, and would be percieved as exactly what her brain thought they were. Our perception of things just wouldn't match. Her perception of things could not be words. She may have been able to read like a machine, but she couldn't have understood it. Just like she couldn't describe how stuff is to her. Think about synesthesia, how can someone who has never had this happen understand this? Words would fail it. She just lacked the tools she needed to be able to. I was talking about the ones under everyone's name, and the shroomerites that don't have any say unrated in Place. Ive got 5 now I just don't know what they are for.
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sloantbone
Stranger from the Cosmos
Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 423
Loc: Canada
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Oh those mushrooms.
Ok ...now I understand. With your bringing my attention to it, I never was aware of those mushrooms under our user names. Gosh, I guess I learn something new everyday.
Hellen could probably feel vibrations, so my guess is that she could sense quite a bit about the world around her, that we are not able to perceive due to our dependency on our eyes and ears.
For example I was watching a documentary the other day about this guy saying that we have an extra perception of being able to tell when we are being watched by someone.
You know how often if you are being watched by someone, you are able to sense it?
A study was done, and test tend to demonstrate the people appear to have a psychic ability to tell when they are being watched or observed from behind.
Therefore, it might even be possible that even though blind people are not able to see, they have perception of things around them.
Their nose probably come in handy too.
A few years ago I had a chat with a scientist that studied bats. He was studying how bats which had no vision from eyes were able to distinguish color. Somehow, color, like sound, is a wavelength, and when the bats process sound waves, they actually create a 3d image inside their brain that may be colored. 
I've chatted to totally blind folks before, and from as far as I am can tell, they don't see fuck all...no color.
Kind of sad in a way, they never get to appreciate how wonderful a nice pair of tits look on a women when giggling.
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spiritinthesky112
Stranger
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: sloantbone]
#15705805 - 01/23/12 03:10 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Ha ha I also would like to go all Hellen Keller on them and feel, taste and smell them  well... My conspiracy is a dumb one but it came to me at a time when I was very mentally vulnerable so I am kind of partial to it. Does it sound completely out there, or something plausible?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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Quote:
spiritinthesky112 said:
So my conspiracy theorem is that Hellen Keller actually could not comprehend what was going on, but was rather like a trained animal.
do you think you're anything more than an advanced trained animal?
I certainly hope you havent fooled yourself into believing you're
a sentient being
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quinn
grimly predictable
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#15705855 - 01/23/12 04:20 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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hes been trained to believe hes a sentient being 
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a fucked of a fuckedness
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sloantbone
Stranger from the Cosmos
Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 423
Loc: Canada
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: quinn] 1
#15706230 - 01/23/12 08:50 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:
hes been trained to believe hes a sentient being
Well I can understand where he is coming from.
We often have so many versions of "the view of life" in mainstream society.
Take for example in the Elephant Man. At one point when the researcher, who was working with the elephant man, tried to show him off to his colleagues in the medical field, they tended to just dismiss the elephant man as non-human and being nothing more than a mimicking animal.
We certainly know that in time of war, or in moments of racism, we dismiss the value of another race, or individual in terms of equality to ourselves or their value spiritually.
So yes, it can be quite difficult for us to all share the same perception of outlook on life.
Spiritinthesky, I enjoyed pondering your question, and it also make me consider for a brief moment, what it would be like to be Blind, deaf, and dumb. It gave me a moment to pity those that are less fortunate, to reflect upon my own blessings, and to ponder on if perhaps we as humans are just as blind as Hellen. Perhaps there are senses that we do not possess and are unaware of that would allow us to see much more things and pull us out of this huge hole of ignorance.
After all, are we all not like Hellen searching for truth?
Edited by sloantbone (01/23/12 09:08 AM)
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Whiteydr
Interrobang
Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 314
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: sloantbone]
#15709471 - 01/23/12 09:50 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: sloantbone]
#15710473 - 01/24/12 05:38 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
sloantbone said:
Spiritinthesky, I enjoyed pondering your question, and it also make me consider for a brief moment, what it would be like to be Blind, deaf, and dumb.
ultimately it turned out that Keller wasnt a mute, in her early life since
she was deaf and couldnt hear sounds she couldnt mimic them and learn to
speak in such a way as we did but it shows an incredible level of
aptitude/intelligence in the fact that she did liearn to communicate and
even learned to speak
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spiritinthesky112
Stranger
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15712417 - 01/24/12 03:31 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Yes, but did she know what she was saying? Did she know what the words she spoke meant? Or did someone teach her to say the words they showed her how to get a reward?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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she responded to direct questions, her brain was that of a human's, not a hampster's, why wouldnt she have the came mental faculties as anyone else because she didnt learn in the same way that we learned?
describe to us without using familiar objects anything as a visual clue, the color blue
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spiritinthesky112
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15723466 - 01/27/12 12:00 AM (4 months, 14 hours ago) |
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I'm not saying she was stupid. I'm just saying she couldnt understand our world because she lacked the tools to observe it.
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PatrickKn
Do Easy
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Don't forget that there are plenty of deaf-blind people in the world today who learn in a limited way to communicate with the outside world. It's not impossible at all.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,735
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
spiritinthesky112 said:
I'm not saying she was stupid. I'm just saying she couldnt understand our world because she lacked the tools to observe it.
wasnt she capable of reading once she learned to do so? can one not come
to the understanding of something through that process? think of all those
taking philosophy, while they arent truly philosophers they understand
philosophy and alternately you could say that anyone capable of thought is
a philosopher even though they know nothing of it
if one has a brain one is capable of understanding
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Luddite
cognitive dissident
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,284
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I remember when I was 2, 3 or 4 years old (I can't remember the exact year), when I was in a doctors office and he asked me a question. The nurse said to the doctor that I don't know how to speak yet. I remember that I could understand them both perfectly, but I didn't bother trying to say anything to them. I think they assumed that I couldn't understand them, either.
I think Hellen Keller heard people talking before she became deaf and that left some impression in her mind that may have helped her learn to communicate with people.
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spiritinthesky112
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: Luddite]
#15738195 - 01/30/12 12:45 PM (3 months, 28 days ago) |
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she was born deaf my friend
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Luddite
cognitive dissident
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,284
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Quote:
Helen Keller was not born blind and deaf; it was not until she was 19 months old that she contracted an illness described by doctors as "an acute congestion of the stomach and the brain", which might have been scarlet fever or meningitis. The illness did not last for a particularly long time, but it left her deaf and blind. At that time, she was able to communicate somewhat with Martha Washington,[10] the six-year-old daughter of the family cook, who understood her signs; by the age of seven, she had over 60 home signs to communicate with her family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Keller
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spiritinthesky112
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Re: Hellen Keller and perception [Re: Luddite]
#15784895 - 02/09/12 04:36 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Damn, you win. Well it was a good theory while it lasted
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