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 teknix
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 What bothers me about Ron Paul. 
#15686822 - 01/19/12 04:00 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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A PRO-ENERGY PRESIDENT
As President, Ron Paul will lead the fight to:
* Remove restrictions on drilling, so companies can tap into the vast amount of oil we have here at home.
* Repeal the federal tax on gasoline. Eliminating the federal gas tax would result in an 18 cents savings per gallon for American consumers.
* Lift government roadblocks to the use of coal and nuclear power.
* Eliminate the ineffective EPA. Polluters should answer directly to property owners in court for the damages they create – not to Washington.
* Make tax credits available for the purchase and production of alternative fuel technologies.
It’s time for a President that recognizes the free market’s power and innovative spirit by unleashing its full potential to produce affordable, environmentally sound, and reliable energy.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/energy/
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teknix
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 Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15686826 - 01/19/12 04:02 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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You can see the double talk going on here. Making gas cheaper will not provide incentive for clean energy, that's just retarded. Obviously the people are going to buy the cheaper energy, which definitely wouldn't be the Solar Panels or Wind Turbines when gas and energy is so cheap. The way to get people to buy it is raise the gas taxes and tighter restrictions on polluters.
With more pollution there would be more smog and solar panels would be even less viable. By making Diesel cheap without taxes and taxing the shit out of gasoline, it would promote more diesel engine which are more efficient and can be run off waste. taxing gasoline and using the tax to make the diesel cheaper would in turn make our food cheaper, as well as the transportation of many other goods carried freight but maybe more expensive to drive your car to get the food if you are running gasoline.
Edited by teknix (01/19/12 04:31 AM)
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 fireworks_god
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15686868 - 01/19/12 04:44 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
You can see the double talk going on here. Making gas cheaper will not provide incentive for clean energy, that's just retarded.
I must have missed the part where he said that. Can you point it out?
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teknix
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15686871 - 01/19/12 04:49 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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So much daft punk.
Quote:
teknix said:
A PRO-ENERGY PRESIDENT
As President, Ron Paul will lead the fight to:
* Remove restrictions on drilling, so companies can tap into the vast amount of oil we have here at home.
* Repeal the federal tax on gasoline. Eliminating the federal gas tax would result in an 18 cents savings per gallon for American consumers.
* Lift government roadblocks to the use of coal and nuclear power.
* Eliminate the ineffective EPA. Polluters should answer directly to property owners in court for the damages they create – not to Washington.
* Make tax credits available for the purchase and production of alternative fuel technologies.
It’s time for a President that recognizes the free market’s power and innovative spirit by unleashing its full potential to produce affordable, environmentally sound, and reliable energy.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/energy/
Edited by teknix (01/19/12 04:57 AM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix] 1
#15686964 - 01/19/12 05:52 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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He's not saying that cheaper gasoline gives incentives for clean energy. He's stating that government interference is keeping the free market from reaching it's full potential to produce these things. He's saying that the free market will sort out all of that better without government interference.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Shill
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: fireworks_god] 1
#15687033 - 01/19/12 06:35 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
He's not saying that cheaper gasoline gives incentives for clean energy. He's stating that government interference is keeping the free market from reaching it's full potential to produce these things. He's saying that the free market will sort out all of that better without government interference.
Precisely. And he's 100% correct
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A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.
If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.
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 qman
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix] 1
#15689041 - 01/19/12 03:28 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
You can see the double talk going on here. Making gas cheaper will not provide incentive for clean energy, that's just retarded. Obviously the people are going to buy the cheaper energy, which definitely wouldn't be the Solar Panels or Wind Turbines when gas and energy is so cheap. The way to get people to buy it is raise the gas taxes and tighter restrictions on polluters.
With more pollution there would be more smog and solar panels would be even less viable. By making Diesel cheap without taxes and taxing the shit out of gasoline, it would promote more diesel engine which are more efficient and can be run off waste. taxing gasoline and using the tax to make the diesel cheaper would in turn make our food cheaper, as well as the transportation of many other goods carried freight but maybe more expensive to drive your car to get the food if you are running gasoline.
Solar panels and wind could supply how much of total energy? .5%, sun and wind are good in theory, but will not solve any energy issue.
Coal, nuclear, and nat gas are the major sources of power, and that is not going to change.
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
He's not saying that cheaper gasoline gives incentives for clean energy. He's stating that government interference is keeping the free market from reaching it's full potential to produce these things. He's saying that the free market will sort out all of that better without government interference.
You really don't get it, all this is going to do is line the already rich peoples pockets.
It is claimed that "produce affordable, environmentally sound, and reliable energy." Non of the proposed actions are going to do any of that. The EPA doesn't have enough power as it is when it comes to regulating large oil companies that pollute. The battles are dragged out in court for years and years, all the while they continue to pollute and profit.
Ron Paul is advocating raping and pillaging our land.
If the government has any role in my life it should be in protecting me as well as the land from those who would destroy it for profit. I don't care if you "think" you own any land, it is not your right to put pollutants into the air I breath or in the rain that feeds the plants.
Edited by teknix (01/19/12 03:43 PM)
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teknix
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15689113 - 01/19/12 03:45 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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And don't you fucking tell me it is not viable.
"About 81 percent of total primary energy supply in Iceland is derived from domestically produced renewable energy sources. In 2007, geothermal energy provided about 66 percent of primary energy, the share of hydropower was 15 percent, and fossil fuels (mainly oil) 19 percent.[1] The main use of geothermal energy is for space heating with the heat being distributed to buildings through extensive district-heating systems.[1] About 85% of all houses in Iceland are heated with geothermal energy.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Iceland
"According to a 2011 projection by the International Energy Agency, solar power generators may produce most of the world’s electricity within 50 years, dramatically reducing the emissions of greenhouse gases that harm the environment.[17]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy
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qman
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15689129 - 01/19/12 03:50 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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What is environmentally sound energy?
Solar panels required a incredible amount of mined resources, there nothing environmentally friendly about that. Wind mills do as well. Clean energy advocates always forgot that how "unclean" their energy can be, ever wonder why solar is still so expensive.
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ChuangTzu
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix] 1
#15689245 - 01/19/12 04:22 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
And don't you fucking tell me it is not viable.
"About 81 percent of total primary energy supply in Iceland is derived from domestically produced renewable energy sources. In 2007, geothermal energy provided about 66 percent of primary energy, the share of hydropower was 15 percent, and fossil fuels (mainly oil) 19 percent.[1] The main use of geothermal energy is for space heating with the heat being distributed to buildings through extensive district-heating systems.[1] About 85% of all houses in Iceland are heated with geothermal energy.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Iceland
Most of us here aren't lucky enough to live on top of a volcano. Iceland's situation is unique and most of what works for them isn't applicable in the rest of the world.
Quote:
"According to a 2011 projection by the International Energy Agency, solar power generators may produce most of the world’s electricity within 50 years, dramatically reducing the emissions of greenhouse gases that harm the environment.[17]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy
That may or may not be based on sound reasoning, but you've failed to make an argument that Paul's policies would in any way hinder the free market development of solar technology.
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wildchild68
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15689422 - 01/19/12 05:06 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
* Eliminate the ineffective EPA. Polluters should answer directly to property owners in court for the damages they create – not to Washington.
[/url]
yeah, his environmental policy is probably my least favorite facet of his beliefs, especially that bullet point.
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teknix
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: ChuangTzu]
#15689761 - 01/19/12 06:18 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said:
That may or may not be based on sound reasoning, but you've failed to make an argument that Paul's policies would in any way hinder the free market development of solar technology.
That's is because hindering free market development is not my argument. So why would I make an argument for it?
My argument is that he is advocating to remove the bans on coal power and drill for more oil. Which will in turn create more damage to the environment than it already does. We have seen how ineffective the courts have proven to be in regards to polluters. The legislation can be drawn out for years with so much money.
Have you ever heard of ANWAR? Paul would let them dig up one of our only pristinely, preserved environments that we have left. Coal Power Plants would be popping up all over, polluting the air, and then leaving the average joe with the burden of proof that it is harming them.
Cheaper gas does not promote demand for solar panels, it promotes more consumption of gas. Which in turn helps the oil companies turn more profits. This is not in my interest.
Heretical is saying promoting environmentally sound energy in anyway involves gas or coal. It is the very opposite and promotes more polluting at the cost of the environment.
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teknix
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15689792 - 01/19/12 06:27 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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It is not OK to have coal power plants polluting our environment as long as we can sue them later. That's simply retarded. What would be the point in allowing them to produce energy in the 1st place? So they can try to pocket a bunch of money and get away?
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qman
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15689820 - 01/19/12 06:35 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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"Cheaper gas promotes more consumption, which creates more profits for oil companies." So cheaper gas creates more profits, this is not true. It is very clear you don't not understand the energy market.
Instead of hating the energy sector, spend some time studying the law of supply and demand, the cost of reserves, the cost of exploration, ect, if will save you a lot of time.
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teknix
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15689822 - 01/19/12 06:36 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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"Sweden Raises The Renewable Energy Bar
Sweden has the reputation among the world's most regulated industries as being annoying. The Swedish government has for decades argued for international policies that discourage the use of toxic and bioaccumulative materials, which fed into EU-wide interest in the "precautionary principle". And, as the picture symbolizes, the Nobel prize has been given for "green chemistry". Even Sweden's well known industries, Volvo for instance, seem to share the forward-looking culture. Years ago Volvo produced internal "grey lists" of substances that should not be used during manufacture and eventually shared the same expectation with their suppliers. Now this is a worldwide trend. By the early 1990's it had become obvious that you could see a major environmental managment trend coming by watching what happens after Sweden. As soon as a US broadcaster says "In Sweden today..." you know it's coming to California,... and so on. So, it was with great interest that we read this recent headline: "Sweden Plans on Being the First Country in the World to Be Free From Oil in 2020". Need we say more? Of course."Minister for Sustainable Development Mona Sahlin has declared that Sweden is going to become the first country in the world to break the dependence on fossil energy. Sweden will stop using oil by 2020 and eventually the energy supply of the country will be based on renewable energy only. The goal is to gradually rid the country of gasoline-run cars and oil-heated homes"
Characteristically, they have actually thought this out and have some mechanisms in mind. Here's the list so far proposed or partially implemented.
*Large-scale investments in renewable energy and in research.
*Expansion of district heating initiatives (co-gen and use of waste industrial and utility heat for domestic needs) as was done famously in Denmark, and emulated in the US in a few rare instances.
*Not subjecting fuel that is free of carbon dioxide to the energy tax or the carbon dioxide emission tax.
*Exempting efficient vehicles from the congestion tax that will be introduced in Stockholm in January.
*Taxes on energy and on carbon dioxide emissions were raised, while other taxes, such as those on payroll were decreased by an equivalent amount.
*Municipalities receive grants to conduct long-term climate research and make investments in environment-friendly technology.
*There are interim objectives for each target, regional and local objectives to match, and an Environmental Objectives Council to monitor progress towards the goals.
*Progress is charted through 70 national indicators, which track results and verify whether the country is heading in the right direction."
http://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/sweden-raises-the-renewable-energy-bar.html
Paul's policies are not coinciding with any of the solutions Sweden has discovered, it is the opposite actually.
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teknix
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15689875 - 01/19/12 06:45 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/americas-energy-subsidy-myth
"According to data compiled by the Environmental Law Institute, the United States is a big contributor to this global subsidy imbalance, “provid(ing) substantially larger subsidies to fossil fuels than to renewables.” In practice, some of the biggest of those US subsidies come in the form of special tax breaks for oil and gas development, and in direct taxpayer funding of multinational corporations’ foreign mining projects (yes, you read that right – your tax dollars go to fund fossil fuel development overseas). Notably, the latter subsidies champion some of the most environmentally hazardous practices in operation such as “fracking” – a practice America's own Environmental Protection Agency has found in two separate reports to be a major potential threat to groundwater.""
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Mycjunky
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix] 2
#15690729 - 01/19/12 10:43 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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Many of these government programs in Sweden that you are referencing are things that could be enacted on the state level. Sweden is the size of many of our states, you can't exactly base what happens there on what we should do to our federal government. The states in Ron Paul's perspective have every right to enact programs like that, he would simply like to eliminate programs like the EPA on the federal level, and allow local government to govern itself because they always know whats better for there respective area. Instead of wasting our tax dollars on programs like that on the federal level that are spread far to thin the states could even increase there taxes a little bit to make up for the decrease in federal tax and use that for exactly the programs that you are suggesting.
On top of that the beauty of allowing the states to do that is we can then see what works for each individual state, and not another nation that isn't usually a good reference. Once states begin to see what works in one state the other states adopt those policies, instead of doing it on the federal level and constantly dealing with a hit or miss type situation that messes up the entire nation.
Edited by Mycjunky (01/19/12 10:47 PM)
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cateyes
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 Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix]
#15691468 - 01/20/12 03:26 AM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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out of all of the candidates left, i like ron paul more for his being an honest man, but his policies suck... chasing free markets that got us in the trouble we're in by moving great jobs elsewhere, that's what free markets have brought us... and his intention to with draw all military is reckless in light of the fact i hate war... we have fucked so many people over pulling our forces would create a power vacuum that would rapidly be filled by a number of countries acting in unison... we could be cut off from all outside energy sources and sanctions could begin to be placed on us among many other related issues tied to a major withdrawal... i'm the first to say let's cut back on the military but a total withdrawal from the world theater is just too fucking craaaazy!
i see modern nuclear in our future and we begin to recycle waste instead of storing it by removing the we have to be able to make a profit doing it or we just don't do it mentality, by using breeder reactors... these facilities can be easily located far outside occupied areas... and i do believe there will be advances in solar but we're just not there yet...
Kensho 
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Seuss
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Re: What bothers me about Ron Paul. [Re: teknix] 3
#15691495 - 01/20/12 03:49 AM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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> That's simply retarded.
Why do all of your arguments end with "That is simply retarded"? Rather than poisoning the well, perhaps you can demonstrate why such a claim "is simply retarded".
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