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zappaisgod said:
Brees and Brady are great Hall of Fame QBs.  That said it took, what, 30 years and a few dozen rule changes favoring the passing game to break his record?  He will never be diminished.

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Deltron3030 said:

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zappaisgod said:
Brees and Brady are great Hall of Fame QBs.  That said it took, what, 30 years and a few dozen rule changes favoring the passing game to break his record?  He will never be diminished.

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for real. marino did it when a cb could do just about anything to a receiver and not get flagged. all these rule changes are making football like basketball on grass.

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SneezingPenis said:

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Deltron3030 said:

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zappaisgod said:
Brees and Brady are great Hall of Fame QBs.  That said it took, what, 30 years and a few dozen rule changes favoring the passing game to break his record?  He will never be diminished.

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for real. marino did it when a cb could do just about anything to a receiver and not get flagged. all these rule changes are making football like basketball on grass.

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whole lotta problems when you try to make the "what if" argument.

"rules changed to favor passers": true. but this isnt some new development this year, or even recently. outside of maybe roughing the passer calls being a little more liberal, nothing has changed this year compared to 5 or even 10 years ago. but even then it doesnt help an argument because brees is the least sacked qb.
then if you look at pass interference, I think it is kind of a wash between losing passing yards in 1984 to what would be considered PI today, or losing passing yards in 2011 to more pass interference being called.

"the league has become more pass prone": yeah, it has. same thing with 1978 when modern passing rules were made and then Fouts broke Unitas record in 1979, and then his own in 1980,  and 1981. which would make you think that back in 1984 when the NFL was dominated by powerbacks, that defenses werent designed around stopping the pass nearly as much as they were about stopping the run. seems to me it would have been easier to get a man open 40 yards downfield back in 1984 than it is in 2011.

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  Clearly you weren't watching games then.  DBs were, relatively speaking, allowed to sexual violate receivers.  That's why most teams relied on the run.  They exploited the easier path, which was the run.  They ran because it was easier.

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Im sure everyone has seen the comparisons of standard deviations and league averages between marino '84 and brees '11, and almost every stat in that category shows that brees did not only in 15 games, but did it within the same margins of league averages as marino did in 1984 when compared to peers at the time.

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Well no, I haven't seen any.  Perhaps you could find us some.  Didn't another QB also break his mark?  Why yes.  Matthew Stafford came within 50 yards and Eli Manning within 100.  And neither Brees (8% more) nor Brady (3%) squeaked past him.

I believe you just chopped your own argument.  My complete point was that league averages were lower 20+ years ago.  Nor are the rule changes over the last year or two particularly relevant.  It has been 20+ years of rule changes, not just two.  Then there is overall playing philosophy.  Do you really think 40 years ago was the same as 20 years ago or this year?  I say them both.  The difference is amazing.

That Marino's record stood this long is astonishing.

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SneezingPenis said:
so you think athleticism and strategy have stayed the same since 84? you dont think that guys are faster, smarter, better trained?

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I think there are just as many obstacle to overcoming 5000 yards today as there was in 84. they might be different, but both QBs got it done in their own way.

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saying one guy is better than the other is barroom hubris. but i think brees record will stand for a while.

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i cant find the stats that they posted on the atl NO game, but most of them showed that compared to all the other qbs at the time, brees was either above, or neck and neck with marino.

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also, brees has a better td/int ratio, completion percentage, and an 8 point higher passer rating.

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SneezingPenis said:
protecting the qb is irrelevant. brees is the least sacked qb in the league.

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  Doesn't that support my argument and not yours?

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also, remember that brees all by his lonesome hit 5k yards and spent hanging out in that 2 man club for 2 years.

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yes it would apply to both sides of the line of scrimmage, what is your point? wrs are better?

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brees is a much more accurate qb than marino. i think this proves it:

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and do you even watch football? the entire atlanta saints game was nothing but them comparing marino and brees stats. sorry if i didnt record it for you or cant recite the tons of statistical comparisons.

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SneezingPenis said:
because a qb is less sacked that detracts from his accomplishment how?

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Brees isnt a scramble QB but he has a few highlight reels from this year alone that are pretty impressive.

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and the 2 man club used to be marino and brees were the only people in nfl history to throw for 5k yards. that was 2009, when he was only something like 8 yards away from breaking marinos record and meachem drops an 11 yard pass that hit him in the chest the last throw of the game for brees. so he would have done it then, all by himself.

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please list the rule changes and what year they were implemented so we can see how this timeline of "making it easy" works.

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The glut of challengers this season says plenty about the N.F.L., too. Rodney Harrison, the former Patriots safety who is now an analyst on NBC’s “Football Night in America,” points to the rules changes, like those that protect the quarterback in the pocket and defenseless receivers downfield, that favor the offense. Harrison said he believed that because teams could not build defenses able to stop offenses with plenty of weapons and the rules to exploit them, they instead opt to spend their money to develop high-powered offenses that can outscore everybody. The most successful of those teams keep their offenses in place over several years.

Gannon, who finished with 4,689 yards in 2002, said: “You’re talking about elite players with a lot of continuity: the same play-caller, the same systems, the same receivers. They really benefited from the lockout; they could have gone into Week 1 with 90 percent of the offense in without much of a training camp. All that contributes to a certain comfort level, a certain functionality, and these guys are just cutting it loose.

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There were more passing yards in Week One (7,842) than any week in NFL history.  To put that in perspective, teams averaged 245 yards passing.  And this included the Alex Smith-Tarvaris Jackson showdown.

3. 14 quarterbacks passed for over 300 yards.  That’s also the most for any week in NFL history.

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accuracy is a pretty big indication of how well a qb does when it comes to passing yards. do i need to introduce you to a player by the name of Tim Tebow?

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oh and the kicker....

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SneezingPenis said:
That defenses werent designed around stopping the pass nearly as much as they were about stopping the run. seems to me it would have been easier to get a man open 40 yards downfield back in 1984 than it is in 2011.

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