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 deepninja
 
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Twin Peaks
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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 Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
#15428536 - 11/26/11 10:41 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Don't mean to bump, but this is important relevant health related info not yet discussed.
I recently read a post on shroomery, which talked about the orange "jungle spice" dmt, here's the quote:
Quote:
So I'm wondering... The old-school heads at the festivals keep talking about RED or ORANGE DMT from back in the day, and how strong it was. I'm wondering if that old-school spice was actually just a mixture of the 2 alkaloids in one product... because as far as I can tell, pure DMT is white or clear crystals."
"I have had the orange DMT that Terrence and old heads speak of. It is DIFFERENT than the snow white DMT people extract these days. People will say things like "it's impure, clean it" blah blah blah. No. They've never had it then. It is the most ridiculously potent DMT SWIM has ever smoked.
Terrence smoked that red/orange shit, likely had some carcinogens in it because it obviously wasn't pure. So it wasn't the DMT but rather some other impurity. An impurity that wouldn't be found in ayahausca (lye or naptha or other alkaloids). Remember the meso-americans never extracted and smoked harsh orange impure "jungle spice"..
I wouldn't recommend any lab monkeys out there ever smoke anything but snow white DMT.
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We sit perched atop our vantage point:
Gazing outward in amazement, of things past, present, and future.
We are explorers of the Universe
www.youtube.com/cometcatropics
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Rhizoid
carbon unit
Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,596
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: deepninja]
#15429169 - 11/27/11 03:40 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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There might be carcinogenic alkaloids or other chemicals present in both ayahuasca and in red/orange jungle spice, but I seriously doubt that this caused Terence McKenna's brain tumor. Not even cigarette smoking has been linked to tumors that start in the brain (as opposed to arising from metastasis of lung cancer). No one really knows what causes this type of cancer.
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 JacksonMetaller
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 1,595
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 26 seconds
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: Rhizoid]
#15429777 - 11/27/11 08:15 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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i don't know why people are going around placing drugs as the blame for the deaths of mckenna, marley, leary, bill hicks, etc... cancers one of the top killers period. it's no surprise if anybody gets cancer. but there's never been any evidence that LSD, Mushrooms, Pot, DMT are carcinogenic. no one smokes a pack of DMT a day and pot has been proven to inhibit tumor growth.
many of these people probably drank soda and alcohol and smoked cigarettes and ingested the nasty chemicals we pollute into our air and put in our food products just like the rest of america. so i HIGHLY doubt his death was drug related. Alex Grey is pretty old and still kickin. if there were health risks for psychedelic drugs you'd see it across the board
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www.myspace.com/sadisticritual
Drugs to try: Alcohol, Weed, LSD, Mushrooms, DMT , LSA, Ayahuasca, Changa, Mescaline, 2c-b, 2c-e, 25i-NBOMe, MDMA, DXM, Ketamine, MXE, Salvia, Kratom, and some day farrrr down the road Ibogaine
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deepninja
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Twin Peaks
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#15433635 - 11/27/11 10:56 PM (5 months, 29 days ago) |
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Ha, you still wont see me smoking that orange shit..
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We sit perched atop our vantage point:
Gazing outward in amazement, of things past, present, and future.
We are explorers of the Universe
www.youtube.com/cometcatropics
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tokinman21
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 2,021
Last seen: 1 month, 16 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: Xlea321]
#15433654 - 11/27/11 11:02 PM (5 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Xlea321 said:
Mckenna only used DMT 2-3 times a year.
Smoking something daily probably isn't good for some people.
You mean all people? Just because you don't want something to be true doesn't make it any less true...just sayin'.
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smiley69
Kelly Ann Dover
Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 74
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: tokinman21]
#15433886 - 11/28/11 12:44 AM (5 months, 29 days ago) |
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well didnt he do RC's tho shulgin isnt dead or sick and hes probally done more RCs then any one
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tokinman21
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 2,021
Last seen: 1 month, 16 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: smiley69]
#15435803 - 11/28/11 01:43 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
smiley69 said:
well didnt he do RC's tho shulgin isnt dead or sick and hes probally done more RCs then any one
Oh really? That's what I always attributed it to mainly with McKenna, I thought he was heavy into RCs.
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Shpongle1
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 1,980
Loc: Above The Clouds 
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 minutes
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: tokinman21]
#15435855 - 11/28/11 01:56 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
tokinman21 said:
Quote:
smiley69 said:
well didnt he do RC's tho shulgin isnt dead or sick and hes probally done more RCs then any one
Oh really? That's what I always attributed it to mainly with McKenna, I thought he was heavy into RCs.
How could you have ever gotten that impression I wonder? He specifically speaks out on a number of occasions against using drugs that are untested. He always recommended plant "drugs", and ones that have been used for long periods of time with no observed long term negative side effects.
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There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. 
 - "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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deepninja
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Twin Peaks
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: Shpongle1]
#15436051 - 11/28/11 02:42 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
How could you have ever gotten that impression I wonder? He specifically speaks out on a number of occasions against using drugs that are untested. He always recommended plant "drugs", and ones that have been used for long periods of time with no observed long term negative side effects.
I think your right. except for one thing; the smoking of unpure orange dmt doesn't have a long history of use. Earliest would be the 60's? and there aren't any studies on the effects of smoking that nasty orange shit. Pure DMT is a different story - obviously nothing wrong with that.
Also note that Shulgin is a lab chemist and what he ingests is definitely as pure as it gets, his product wouldn't contain the impurities that the "home chemist" might sometimes ingest on occasion.
--------------------
We sit perched atop our vantage point:
Gazing outward in amazement, of things past, present, and future.
We are explorers of the Universe
www.youtube.com/cometcatropics
Edited by deepninja (11/28/11 02:58 PM)
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Shpongle1
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 1,980
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 minutes
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: deepninja]
#15436110 - 11/28/11 02:59 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Terence's opinion of it had nothing to do with purity though.
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There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 1,595
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 26 seconds
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: deepninja]
#15436813 - 11/28/11 05:26 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
deepninja said:
Pure DMT is a different story - obviously nothing wrong with that.
has this been tested? i always get paranoid about putting that nasty shit in my lungs. i figure if it's vaporized it can't be THAT bad but it still feels soooo gross. if it wasn't the most amazing drug in the world i probably wouldn't ever do it
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www.myspace.com/sadisticritual
Drugs to try: Alcohol, Weed, LSD, Mushrooms, DMT, LSA, Ayahuasca, Changa, Mescaline, 2c-b, 2c-e, 25i-NBOMe, MDMA, DXM, Ketamine, MXE, Salvia, Kratom, and some day farrrr down the road Ibogaine
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deepninja
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Twin Peaks
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#15438845 - 11/29/11 02:36 AM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
has this been tested? i always get paranoid about putting that nasty shit in my lungs. i figure if it's vaporized it can't be THAT bad but it still feels soooo gross. if it wasn't the most amazing drug in the world i probably wouldn't ever do it
If it's pure dmt being vaporized there's nothing wrong - it's perfectly healthy. Remember dmt has been consumed for thousands of years in drink form and it's naturally produced in most living animals. However if it's burned it could be bad for your lungs.. But the real issue is the impurities that are sometimes left behind in the extraction, that's where the health risk lies. Make sure you use reagent/food grade chemicals and ensure the final product is as pure as possible. Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) doesn't vaporize or burn when you put a lighter to it so it wont enter your lungs, that's why it's fine to wash your dmt with it.
--------------------
We sit perched atop our vantage point:
Gazing outward in amazement, of things past, present, and future.
We are explorers of the Universe
www.youtube.com/cometcatropics
Edited by deepninja (11/29/11 02:46 AM)
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 ReoSpeedwagon153
Entheogenic Seed
Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 1,903
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: deepninja]
#15439264 - 11/29/11 06:53 AM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Deepninja- seriously, you're not a doctor and you are making wild medical assumptions. There is no reason to believe that vaporized DMT is good, okay, healthy, or even acceptable for your lungs and 'that orange shit' is straight from the devil.
Guess what? TMK probably never fucked with an extract from MHRB, especially not one made with marsofold's tek 
Please, quit with this.
And can we stop speculating on terence mckenna's death? Last I checked, none of us fucking knew the guy and all we have to base what we think his life was like is what he publicly told us over the years.
Maybe he was a crackhead?
Maybe he grew up downwind from a chemical factory?
Maybe this thread is fucking retarded?
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ReoSpeedwagon153
Entheogenic Seed
Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 1,903
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
#15439276 - 11/29/11 06:57 AM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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terence mckenna mentioned smoking dmt that looked like 'orange mothballs' + terence mckenna died of incurable brain cancer = ORANGE COLORED DMT IS BAD AND CAUSES CANCER
How scientific! 
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gushtunkinflupped
#########
Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 351
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
#15439693 - 11/29/11 09:36 AM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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i'm with the speedwagon on this one
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infectedstyle
Stranger
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 190
Last seen: 5 days, 8 hours
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: gushtunkinflupped]
#15439818 - 11/29/11 10:21 AM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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He did try some synthetics i believe. And i know he mentioned his brain cancer as possibly being "The revenge of synthetics" .
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 1,595
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 26 seconds
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: infectedstyle]
#15439861 - 11/29/11 10:32 AM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
infectedstyle said:
He did try some synthetics i believe. And i know he mentioned his brain cancer as possibly being "The revenge of synthetics" .
yes but he wasn't a doctor. i don't think self-diagnosing makes it valid.
think of the popular RC's of the time which are now classic psychedelics. LSD, MDMA, etc. people back then had NO clue on the long term effects yet they turned out to be relatively safe and non-carcinogenic. now this doesn't mean that other RC's can't be dangerous... but why would we speculate on drugs that have been used on a handful of occasions when we are constantly consuming chemicals from our air supply, food supply, and through doctor prescription which have very limited human testing and are sometimes MUCH more dangerous?
what about Accutane? that stuff was on the market 20+ years before they discovered it lead to crohns disease. i was eating that shit daily for about 4 months when the docs put me on it when i was younger. same with all the BPA in our food packaging and particle matter and other emissions in our air supply. is there really reason to believe that small exposure to RC's is more harmful than these things we ingest every day?
that's just a new view i've been taking on RC's lately. of course caution is always good with untested chemicals, but i don't think anyone should jump to conclusions on TMK's death.
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www.myspace.com/sadisticritual
Drugs to try: Alcohol, Weed, LSD, Mushrooms, DMT, LSA, Ayahuasca, Changa, Mescaline, 2c-b, 2c-e, 25i-NBOMe, MDMA, DXM, Ketamine, MXE, Salvia, Kratom, and some day farrrr down the road Ibogaine
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deepninja
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Twin Peaks
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#15441079 - 11/29/11 04:14 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:
infectedstyle said:
He did try some synthetics i believe. And i know he mentioned his brain cancer as possibly being "The revenge of synthetics" .
yes but he wasn't a doctor. i don't think self-diagnosing makes it valid.
think of the popular RC's of the time which are now classic psychedelics. LSD, MDMA, etc. people back then had NO clue on the long term effects yet they turned out to be relatively safe and non-carcinogenic. now this doesn't mean that other RC's can't be dangerous... but why would we speculate on drugs that have been used on a handful of occasions when we are constantly consuming chemicals from our air supply, food supply, and through doctor prescription which have very limited human testing and are sometimes MUCH more dangerous?
what about Accutane? that stuff was on the market 20+ years before they discovered it lead to crohns disease. i was eating that shit daily for about 4 months when the docs put me on it when i was younger. same with all the BPA in our food packaging and particle matter and other emissions in our air supply. is there really reason to believe that small exposure to RC's is more harmful than these things we ingest every day?
that's just a new view i've been taking on RC's lately. of course caution is always good with untested chemicals, but i don't think anyone should jump to conclusions on TMK's death.
You're wrong about MDMA, all the latest research shows MDMA is neurotoxic, check the latest research and you'll find lots on the subject, heck even the erowid consensus is that it's neurotoxic..
--------------------
We sit perched atop our vantage point:
Gazing outward in amazement, of things past, present, and future.
We are explorers of the Universe
www.youtube.com/cometcatropics
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deepninja
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Twin Peaks
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
#15441109 - 11/29/11 04:22 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
There is no reason to believe that vaporized DMT is good, okay, healthy, or even acceptable for your lungs and 'that orange shit' is straight from the devil.
DMT is not unhealthy anyway what so ever in terms of pharmacology in the body, vaporized DMT in the lungs smoked through a bong for example wont burn your lungs because it's not hot enough, and it's water soluble in your lungs (how the hell do you think it makes it to your brain?) The only way it could be unhealthy is if it's burned by the flame meaning it's no longer DMT but rather by products from being burnt. Do you even know what the benefits of vaporizing are???? You don't get any products from combustion when you vaporize. I'm guessing you haven't taken a chemisty class yet or you would know that.
Chemicals that are toxic in solid form are still toxic in liquid/gas form.. Chemicals that are NOT toxic in solid form are also NOT toxic in liquid or gas form. So answer this then, how would DMT be toxic in gas form when it is not toxic in liquid or solid form?? What determental effect would the vapor have after it's been cooled through a water bong? Anyone out there wanna try and answer that one without rambling off about TMK? I'll be surprised if someone can
Edited by deepninja (11/29/11 04:39 PM)
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 1,595
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 26 seconds
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Re: What caused Terence McKenna's Death? Drugs or Natural Cause [Re: deepninja]
#15441157 - 11/29/11 04:32 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
deepninja said:
Quote:
JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:
infectedstyle said:
He did try some synthetics i believe. And i know he mentioned his brain cancer as possibly being "The revenge of synthetics" .
yes but he wasn't a doctor. i don't think self-diagnosing makes it valid.
think of the popular RC's of the time which are now classic psychedelics. LSD, MDMA, etc. people back then had NO clue on the long term effects yet they turned out to be relatively safe and non-carcinogenic. now this doesn't mean that other RC's can't be dangerous... but why would we speculate on drugs that have been used on a handful of occasions when we are constantly consuming chemicals from our air supply, food supply, and through doctor prescription which have very limited human testing and are sometimes MUCH more dangerous?
what about Accutane? that stuff was on the market 20+ years before they discovered it lead to crohns disease. i was eating that shit daily for about 4 months when the docs put me on it when i was younger. same with all the BPA in our food packaging and particle matter and other emissions in our air supply. is there really reason to believe that small exposure to RC's is more harmful than these things we ingest every day?
that's just a new view i've been taking on RC's lately. of course caution is always good with untested chemicals, but i don't think anyone should jump to conclusions on TMK's death.
You're wrong about MDMA, all the latest research shows MDMA is neurotoxic, check the latest research and you'll find lots on the subject, heck even the erowid consensus is that it's neurotoxic..
erowid still has research papers posted by Ricaurte. Ricaurte himself knows he's an idiot and retracted those papers years ago because he admitted he was using methamphetamine and not MDMA after failed attempts to show significant damage with MDMA. i think the latest swedish studies show that full brain function and serotonin levels return after 4 weeks abstinence. whether it's correct or not, who knows... but honestly, how many people do you know who show significant lack of brain function with responsible usage of MDMA? any neurotoxicity obviously isn't significant in reasonable doseage
--------------------
www.myspace.com/sadisticritual
Drugs to try: Alcohol, Weed, LSD, Mushrooms, DMT, LSA, Ayahuasca, Changa, Mescaline, 2c-b, 2c-e, 25i-NBOMe, MDMA, DXM, Ketamine, MXE, Salvia, Kratom, and some day farrrr down the road Ibogaine
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