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 Javadog
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 Elm Oysters 
#15243704 - 10/18/11 03:52 PM (7 months, 7 days ago) |
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Hello all,
I have Elm Oyster (Hypsizygus ulmarius) fruiting right now, and wanted
to get some advice on when these should be picked.
As of this morning*:
Thank you for the time.
JD
* Did anyone else notice that the Shroomery was very slow to respond
this morning? I found that many page-loads died before completion.
--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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EvilMushroom666
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Javadog]
#15243797 - 10/18/11 04:05 PM (7 months, 7 days ago) |
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Very nice fruits you have their my friend! Simply beautiful!
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 Mycelio
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Javadog]
#15244184 - 10/18/11 05:32 PM (7 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Javadog said:
... and wanted to get some advice on when these should be picked.
Looking good! They will continue to grow, but the stems may get tough soon. I'd pick them tonight or tomorrow.
Quote:
Javadog said:
* Did anyone else notice that the Shroomery was very slow to respond
this morning? I found that many page-loads died before completion.
Yep, it was the same from here.
Carsten
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NSF
Eager to learn
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Mycelio]
#15244577 - 10/18/11 07:22 PM (7 months, 7 days ago) |
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I hate to break it to you but those aren't Elm Oyster, they are just regular oysters 
Elm Oyster doesn't have decurrent gills, they don't come down the stype at all.
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EvilMushroom666
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Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 9,507
Loc: Canada
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: NSF]
#15244607 - 10/18/11 07:29 PM (7 months, 7 days ago) |
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I remember reading that most if not all the elm oyster cultures that
are in circulation on the shroomery are not infact Hypsizygus ulmarius.
I found the thread here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14469126#14469126
Is that the culture you received from myself Java? I am not 100% of its
origins but it either came from Sporeworks or Aloha.
Either way you have some pretty fruits that I am sure will be nice and
tasty
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Javadog
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Well, I'll be.....LOL.
I was given this by someone EM, but I would have to look who.
it is a tad embarrassing...but this was my first time with
this species, so learning was certain to occur! ;0)
No worries either way. I am going to taste them to be sure.
Onward and upward,
JD
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Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
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NSF
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Javadog]
#15246340 - 10/19/11 08:01 AM (7 months, 7 days ago) |
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I had the same thing happen with H. ulmarius too. First time i grew it i got P. columbinus. That's why i was so quick to judge.
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trout
Flyfisherman
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: NSF]
#15246399 - 10/19/11 08:19 AM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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So has anyone found a true H. Ulmarius culture? I have the standard oyster labled H. U. but I just call it Elm oyster when refering to it as that is the now common name for this type of oyster. But I guess I would like to know what it realy is and also get a true H. Ulmarius. Any thoughts?
Trout
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I need a good Hot Weather Oyster culture!!
Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.
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Buckeye Oysters
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: NSF]
#15246884 - 10/19/11 10:51 AM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
NSF said:
I hate to break it to you but those aren't Elm Oyster, they are just regular oysters
Elm Oyster doesn't have decurrent gills, they don't come down the stype at all.
You are thinking of Beech mushrooms (Hypsizygus tessulatus) that do not have decurrent gills. There are a lot of mislabeled pics of them on the internet. Elm oysters have decurrent gills, see GGMM pg. 256. They come in white to beige color as well.
--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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Buckeye Oysters
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Javadog, next time dont take the top of the bag to fruit, rather cut several small holes or slits on the sides of the block and they will come out there. Removing the top dries the inside of the bag more.
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Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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Terry M
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: trout]
#15246980 - 10/19/11 11:09 AM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Thanks for the heads up, guys. I bought my H. Ulmarius as a liquid culture from The Mushroom Patch. I made some plates from it, but haven't had a chance to fruit it. It is going into a grain jar tomorrow!
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Obsessed with edibles all my waking hours.
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Javadog
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Terry M]
#15247011 - 10/19/11 11:15 AM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Thank you all for the info.
I am going to think about this one. (maybe "whew!" ;0)
I will save the bag next too BO. I have done this with my straw sacks,
but never my sawdust blocks.
Take care,
JD
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Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
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Mycelio
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Quote:
Buckeye Oysters said:
Quote:
NSF said:
I hate to break it to you but those aren't Elm Oyster, they are just regular oysters
Elm Oyster doesn't have decurrent gills, they don't come down the stype at all.
You are thinking of Beech mushrooms (Hypsizygus tessulatus) that do not have decurrent gills. There are a lot of mislabeled pics of them on the internet. Elm oysters have decurrent gills, see GGMM pg. 256. They come in white to beige color as well.
No, Stamets got it wrong too. He and Rush wayne got a mislabeled culture in the mid 90s and spread it worldwide.
Hypsizygus ulmarius grows like a large, pale version of H. tessulatus. Its gills never run down the stem. See here for correct images:
http://www.mushroomexpert.com/hypsizygus_ulmarius.html
http://www.messiah.edu/Oakes/fungi_on_wood/gilled%20fungi/species%20pages/Hypsizygus%20ulmarius.htm
I once got a tiny fraction of a dirty spore print from a mushroom hunter. Unfortunately I never got a clean culture out of it. Growth was OK on grain, but very slow on sawdust. Primordia grew like spikes and then got taken over by pin mold.
Carsten
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Terry M
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Mycelio]
#15247543 - 10/19/11 01:05 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Wow, great info, Carsten! I'm not overly hopeful that my culture is the real deal. Aloha Medicinals lists two H. ulmarius strains, both of which they isolated themselves.
I wonder if we should do a group buy of the real thing?
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Obsessed with edibles all my waking hours.
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Javadog
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Terry M]
#15247624 - 10/19/11 01:23 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Well, that is that. I have an Oyster.
I will have to watch out for this species. I was looking forward to trying it.
Thank you for helping settle the matter Carsten.
JD
--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
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Buckeye Oysters
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Javadog]
#15248442 - 10/19/11 04:36 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Well I use the elm oyster strain from Aloha Medicinals and it has decurrent caps like a oyster.
Do you have source about Stamets getting mislabeled strain? I would think he would update his GGMM with that information if it were true. In fact if you go to his website http://www.fungi.com/kits/outdoor.html there is an outdoor Hypsizygus ulmarius kit and its pic looks like it has decurrent caps to me.
"Give your Garden a "HUG":
The Hypsizygus ulmarius Garden Patch™ ★★
A great ally for most garden vegetables, this aggressive Garden Oyster mushroom unlocks nutrients from straw, sawdust, and organic debris, feeding the roots of underlying plants. Ideal for over-wintering and mulching, or early Spring planting where straw is overlaid, the HUG kit is a natural way to recycle nutrients and grow gourmet mushrooms at the same time."
In my opinion the elm oyster strain as sold by Aloha and represented in the GGMM should really just be a variety of ostreatus just like columbinus is, whoever is right. It does have a thicker and broader cap than whites or blues, but everything otherwise is the same.
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Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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NSF
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Well this is just a can of worms we've opened up here!
I'm growing some tessulatus at the moment and those are definitely different to oysters, much smaller and definitely not decurrent.
I don't know how i don't have a pic of them. When I get home in a couple of days I'll take a pic and share.
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Mycelio
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: NSF]
#15249179 - 10/19/11 06:54 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Lets keep looking into this can of worms. Perhaps we can find out what this white oyster really is.
The 'Hypsizygus ulmarius', we all have has the typical taste, smell and shape of Pleurotus ostreatus or P. pulmonarius. Gills run down the stem and the mushrooms turn yellow when becoming dry. The mycelium colonizes and fruits as fast as P. pulmonarius. It loves straw and when fruiting sideways it often forms enormous clusters like P. ostreatus. As the mycelium on agar can grow thin and on substrate sometimes almost rhizomorphic, while early primordia clusters in high CO2 environment grow like a cauliflower rather than corals, I am not sure if it is a variation of P.o., P.p. or something close.
Even if we say shape is not important, everybody who has grown or eaten Hypsizygus tesselatus or what I consider to be H. ulmarius, should know the very different smell and taste, which should be enough to prove that we grow a Pleurotus and not a Hypsizygus.
Trying to find the source of this confusion I ended up with Stamets description in GGMM and Waynes here,
http://www.bio.net/mm/mycology/1997-May/005601.html
Both perfectly describe the white oyster mentioned above (as Strain DAOM #189249 from the canadian department of agriculture), while descriptions of trustworthy mycologists don't match. To be honest, I see Stamets and Wayne as brilliant growers, but not as outstanding in terms of taxonomy. Try to make sense out of the Sparassis crispa chapter in GGMM and you know what I mean.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but a mix up at the culture library, where all our cultures originate from, seems to be the only plausible reason. Especially as this type of error happens often. Just remember that Cordyceps sinensis from a culture bank, which turned out to be a Fusarium and keep in mind that they often couldn't verify the identity of strains they receive.
Cheers, Carsten
PS: I also often wonder if this mushroom is P. ostreatus var. florida. Has anybody grown that one and can shed some light on this?
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HorizonSpawn
Gettin' my grow on :)
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Re: Elm Oysters [Re: Mycelio]
#15250382 - 10/19/11 11:22 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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I am really really hoping to find a legitimate culture of Hypsizygus ulmarius' AND Sparassis crispa (funny that you mention it)... So, please please let's get to the bottom of this 
My eyes will be glued!
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Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...
NOTE: Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone
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Mycelio
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Is anybody able to measure the spore size with a good microscope?
Spores of H. ulmarius should be small (5-6 µ) and spherical, while those of P. ostreatus and P. pulmonarius are larger (8-10.5 x 3-3.5 µ for P.o. and 7-10 x 2.5-5 µ for P.p.) and cylindrical to kidney shaped.
Then mushroom hunters sometimes use chemicals to tell if an oyster is either P.o. or P.p. A drop of KOH on the cap surface of P. pulmonarius should turn orange, while a drop of sulfovanilline (fresh mixture of sulphuric acid and vanilline) on the cap of P. ostreatus should turn red. It should be interesting to know how fresh fruitbodies of this white oyster would react.
Carsten
PS: Pleurotus populinus might also be a candidate, where KOH on the cap should turn yellow or show no reaction.
Edited by Mycelio (10/20/11 06:03 AM)
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