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 c0sm0nautt
 
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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 Money as Dark Magic
#15183296 - 10/05/11 06:54 PM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
While rarely discussed in the mainstream media, an awakening is currently underway: More and more people are coming to realize that what we use as money is not some natural force or omnipotent being, but a magic spell. This spell is maintained by the oracles and high priests of finance from their well-guarded temples -- the banks and treasuries -- where they alchemically transmute little bits of paper or blips of data into valuable artifacts, using occult symbol, incantation, and numerical abracadabra. Indeed, what the financial sorcerers fear more than anything is a collective loss of faith in the abstruse and arcane instruments they use to bind the great human mob in invisible chains of debt, servitude, and scarcity.
Excerpt from the intro of a new book. Here is the full introduction here: http://www.realitysandwich.com/impossible_alternative
What do you all think? Personally I feel the survival of our species depends on us moving away from the current capitalist-money as debt model. Let the ideas reverberate through the noosphere.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
  
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
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Another excerpt I enjoyed:
Quote:
As the design scientist Buckminster Fuller noted, most of the work that our society creates produces no real benefit for the earth, and in fact subtracts from it. Most of the work we do requires pointless expenditures of energy and makes more waste. Rather than having people drive to jobs and use up endless Styrofoam containers and toner cartridges, it would be cheaper -- in the real terms of the vitality and thrive-ability of the earth -- to subsidize them to remain in their home communities, support them to grow their own food, foster permaculture projects to increase biodiversity, and encourage them to educate themselves and their children, to make art and perform ritual if they felt so inclined, and to generally celebrate the sacred mystery of being with a minimum of interference.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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EAPoe
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/11
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the illimunati are all wizards so i would not be surprised
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: EAPoe]
#15183775 - 10/05/11 08:26 PM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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money is just a societally consecrated unit of power.
it would be a lot better if power wasn't held down in material form, since like love it is a very immaterial force.
can you imagine if love were somehow materialized like that? well for some confused folks i think it is....as money! but fuck that! money really cannot buy happiness (if happiness=love).
it's all in our heads but people insist on this physical token. That's why i think the transition to a more electronic economy is actually a good thing.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
While rarely discussed in the mainstream media, an awakening is currently underway: More and more people are coming to realize that what we use as money is not some natural force or omnipotent being, but a magic spell. This spell is maintained by the oracles and high priests of finance from their well-guarded temples -- the banks and treasuries -- where they alchemically transmute little bits of paper or blips of data into valuable artifacts, using occult symbol, incantation, and numerical abracadabra. Indeed, what the financial sorcerers fear more than anything is a collective loss of faith in the abstruse and arcane instruments they use to bind the great human mob in invisible chains of debt, servitude, and scarcity.
Excerpt from the intro of a new book. Here is the full introduction here: http://www.realitysandwich.com/impossible_alternative
What do you all think? Personally I feel the survival of our species depends on us moving away from the current capitalist-money as debt model. Let the ideas reverberate through the noosphere.
No species survives. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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birdland
Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 617
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15185336 - 10/06/11 07:11 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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There's some pretty old species still around though. Not endangered or anything.
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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I immediately ordered this book after viewing your thread. I'm almost finished with this book right now
which basically touches base on the content of your second excerpt by Bucky.
Lately I have been really trying to wrap my head around the nature and functioning of capitalism, getting to understand it in layman's terms, knowing the ground of it. The demonstrations in NYC and around the country have spiked my interest in this, bringing me to ask questions on a daily basis.
I'm pretty sure we must get to the very root of a problem in order to even begin solving it. I do think of capitalism as a huge systemic problem. It only takes simple common sense to know that a system requiring an ever increasing need of resources can never survive in a world of limited resources. That's beside the fact that the capitalist model is a total pyramid scheme that trickles wealth upwards and concentrates it into the hands of a few. It can only do this through exploitation, exploitation of resources, exploitation of labor, and whoever resists or doesn't play by the rules is excluded and not rarely labeled a criminal.
Work is what this system needs to keep functioning, that is not the kind of work that human beings have been doing for the majority of time they have been living on this earth, such as hunting, gathering, and bartering. No, work as in labor, wage labor, or wage slavery, however you want to put it. I think that's a good place to start searching for answers.
There is a deep stigma against people who contest the idea of work being necessary for society. I challenge this by saying that it is really necessary for capitalism. Work is necessary to keep wealth unequally distributed, necessary to create the highest profits at the lowest price, no matter the ecological consequences.
Let us break the ideological union of consumer and producer in our society and take a good look at who benefits. Who are we producing for? Is it benefiting the quality of life of the ecology of this beautiful planet or is it benefiting the lives of a small handful of human beings who have long surpassed their necessities?
Peace to all. Always remember what you're fighting for.
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: birdland]
#15185537 - 10/06/11 08:07 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
birdland said:
There's some pretty old species still around though. Not endangered or anything.
They won't last.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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desert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 851
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
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i suggest to you
NO LOGO - naomi klein
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i'm a loser and a user so i don't need no accuser
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
While rarely discussed in the mainstream media, an awakening is currently underway: More and more people are coming to realize that what we use as money is not some natural force or omnipotent being, but a magic spell. This spell is maintained by the oracles and high priests of finance from their well-guarded temples -- the banks and treasuries -- where they alchemically transmute little bits of paper or blips of data into valuable artifacts, using occult symbol, incantation, and numerical abracadabra. Indeed, what the financial sorcerers fear more than anything is a collective loss of faith in the abstruse and arcane instruments they use to bind the great human mob in invisible chains of debt, servitude, and scarcity.
Excerpt from the intro of a new book. Here is the full introduction here: http://www.realitysandwich.com/impossible_alternative
What do you all think? Personally I feel the survival of our species depends on us moving away from the current capitalist-money as debt model. Let the ideas reverberate through the noosphere.
I have no idea if that's what's going on or not. I don't believe in money as a force but I do believe in survival as a force embodied in the symbol of money. If money is no longer the symbol, something else will be. And when that happens people will collect massive amounts of the symbol under the misguided notion that the more symbolic survival they have, the more likely they are to survive
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15185619 - 10/06/11 08:30 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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 Somebody had to say it.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15185711 - 10/06/11 08:58 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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somewhere between gods and beasts. But closer to beasts. 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15185793 - 10/06/11 09:23 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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at least we know beasts exist. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15185817 - 10/06/11 09:30 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Not every beast is as it seems 
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
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The more people are made dependent on money, the more money can be used to enforce that 'dark magic' way. Of course that's what the illuminati strive for as most the banks and politicians are under their will.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
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capitalism being run on debt is really the same thing as being run on death.
Why? It denies the infinite possibility of the moment in a very fundamental way.
Your time is not your own. You are in debt. Your power is not your own.
I don't personally have any debts, but I'm still in debt. I'm going to school, my parents have a mortgage, I'm still chained to society and my time cannot fully flow according to my own being.
Luckily, the route away from all this is here right now. Who you are is outside all of it
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
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Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15185924 - 10/06/11 09:59 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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How could anyone ever be free from debt? We consume energy constantly and so are constantly requiring more. We're always in debt to a food source in one form or another. Not to mention all the other ways we are naturally in debt just by nature of being alive. We are debters from the get go on a limited supply of time that is always getting shorter.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15185932 - 10/06/11 10:02 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
capitalism being run on debt is really the same thing as being run on death.
Why? It denies the infinite possibility of the moment in a very fundamental way.
Your time is not your own. You are in debt. Your power is not your own.
I don't personally have any debts, but I'm still in debt. I'm going to school, my parents have a mortgage, I'm still chained to society and my time cannot fully flow according to my own being.
Luckily, the route away from all this is here right now. Who you are is outside all of it
Do you really think it's ever been different? Even in a wild primitive state?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15185933 - 10/06/11 10:02 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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okay fair enough. in a broader sense i do believe it is possible to free yourself from all cosmic imperative.
However there is no logical reason for society to place us in more debt, other than to keep us down. That's the problem, is people trying to keep us down and keep us in debt. We all need to rise up together, and keeping others down really keeps you down ultimately.
Basically the very fact of debt and interest and all that bullshit is that it's just a game we're voluntarily playing, for the benefit of....well, idk.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15185936 - 10/06/11 10:03 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
guruu said:
capitalism being run on debt is really the same thing as being run on death.
Why? It denies the infinite possibility of the moment in a very fundamental way.
Your time is not your own. You are in debt. Your power is not your own.
I don't personally have any debts, but I'm still in debt. I'm going to school, my parents have a mortgage, I'm still chained to society and my time cannot fully flow according to my own being.
Luckily, the route away from all this is here right now. Who you are is outside all of it
Do you really think it's ever been different? Even in a wild primitive state?
Yes, I think it's possible that nature could exist purely for our benefit, and the same goes for society.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15185950 - 10/06/11 10:06 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Are ants in debt? The queen doesn't have to leave the colony and do manual labor but she has a role. All the other ants support her and have very specific roles to keep the colony alive and successful (aka ant society). An ant completes its role because it keeps the species alive. Is this any different, fundamentally, than a solitary creature like a bear? It too has to act in order to keep its species alive.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15186007 - 10/06/11 10:19 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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However there is no logical reason for society to place us in more debt,
How is society placing you in debt? I've never had that experience in almost 60 years due to the fact that I've always lived within my means. I've never been a spoiled and entitled brat like most Americans. Wanting everything for nothing and always blaming others for their own mistakes and ignorance.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15186059 - 10/06/11 10:33 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
However there is no logical reason for society to place us in more debt,
How is society placing you in debt? I've never had that experience in almost 60 years due to the fact that I've always lived within my means. I've never been a spoiled and entitled brat like most Americans. Wanting everything for nothing and always blaming others for their own mistakes and ignorance.
Our society places a lot of people in debt by being exclusive in its membership benefits that are gained from non-members work.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15186062 - 10/06/11 10:34 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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yeah like not everybody owns the means of production but everybody works. classic marxism.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15186104 - 10/06/11 10:45 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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I don't think you or me are in the excluded category. We receive the membership perks. At least for the time being.
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the human abstract
White Girl
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 6,853
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15186161 - 10/06/11 10:59 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Kickle that was a great post about time and debt.
We need to get the people taking freebies from the government to stop fighting the people that pay.
Problem is that that "we" consists of more freebie takers.
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 ★
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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There is no such thing as a free lunch and no one can really provide that as much as it feels good to want to. IMO to really do good you need to be honest with the reality of our world. That's a tall order considering the reality is dark to most of our feel-good sentiments.
If you ask me both those trying to provide the free lunch and those taking it need to wake up.
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Seanfu
Marilize Legajuana
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,577
Loc: Brazil 
Last seen: 13 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15186557 - 10/06/11 12:26 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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We only compete for dominance because we are stupid. To help others is to help yourself, to set others back is to guarrentee you will eventually be set back.
If everyone helped you you would help others.
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I am a chronic liar.
Terence McKenna ftw
http://lawofone.info/ Something all seekers should at least browse.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15186648 - 10/06/11 12:42 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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We compete for dominance because that's how nature made us and how our species survives. Helping others is also how our species survives, we're a social species. Collective efforts are vital to our well-being. Both are included when looking at humanity realistically, not one or the other exclusively.
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Seanfu
Marilize Legajuana
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,577
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 13 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15186684 - 10/06/11 12:47 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
We compete for dominance because that's how nature made us and how our species survives. Helping others is also how our species survives, we're a social species. Collective efforts are vital to our well-being. Both are included when looking at humanity realistically, not one or the other exclusively.
I think only one is necesarry. Why do you need to compete if everyone already has enough. Its all ego imo.
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I am a chronic liar.
Terence McKenna ftw
http://lawofone.info/ Something all seekers should at least browse.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15186699 - 10/06/11 12:48 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Why would we need to help if everyone already has enough?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle] 1
#15186705 - 10/06/11 12:49 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
However there is no logical reason for society to place us in more debt,
How is society placing you in debt? I've never had that experience in almost 60 years due to the fact that I've always lived within my means. I've never been a spoiled and entitled brat like most Americans. Wanting everything for nothing and always blaming others for their own mistakes and ignorance.
Our society places a lot of people in debt by being exclusive in its membership benefits that are gained from non-members work.
Nonsense. If that was true then I would be in debt. The reason almost all people are in debt is due to poor financial choices
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15186720 - 10/06/11 12:52 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
yeah like not everybody owns the means of production but everybody works. classic marxism.
Those that don't own the means to production don't have the skills to create such. Working does not put one into debt. Spending more than you make certainly will.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15186734 - 10/06/11 12:54 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
However there is no logical reason for society to place us in more debt,
How is society placing you in debt? I've never had that experience in almost 60 years due to the fact that I've always lived within my means. I've never been a spoiled and entitled brat like most Americans. Wanting everything for nothing and always blaming others for their own mistakes and ignorance.
Our society places a lot of people in debt by being exclusive in its membership benefits that are gained from non-members work.
Nonsense. If that was true then I would be in debt. The reason almost all people are in debt is due to poor financial choices
You're a member of the club. You're a member of the United States. Not only that but you're similar to the founders -- white and male. The structure and history of this society favors you over others.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle] 1
#15186747 - 10/06/11 12:57 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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What a cop out. I made less than many non male, not white americans. I spent wisely and didn't spend more than I had and saved. I beat the system this way. Not by being privileged. On a high school education.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15186767 - 10/06/11 01:00 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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explain how it is a cop out? Where did you learn your behaviors in regards to money?
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Seanfu
Marilize Legajuana
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,577
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 13 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15186769 - 10/06/11 01:00 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Why would we need to help if everyone already has enough?
You need help to have enough, everyone helping is everyone having enough.
If people stopped trying to dominate eachother we could easily allocate our resources to be way more conservative. We could have machiness doing almost all our physical labor at this point in our technology.
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I am a chronic liar.
Terence McKenna ftw
http://lawofone.info/ Something all seekers should at least browse.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15186778 - 10/06/11 01:03 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
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Kickle said:
Why would we need to help if everyone already has enough?
You need help to have enough, everyone helping is everyone having enough.
If people stopped trying to dominate eachother we could easily allocate our resources to be way more conservative. We could have machiness doing almost all our physical labor at this point in our technology.
You said *already* have enough. If I already have enough I don't need help to have enough, I already have it.
My point is, that's not the way it is. So you can talk about the dream of only one being necessary, but it isn't the reality. Which is what I'm discussing, what's real right now. Who knows what the future holds? If we don't get real about what currently exists how can we possibly expect to make changes? Changes to our dreams? That's easy. Changes to reality? Harder because no one wants to see it.
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Seanfu
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15186923 - 10/06/11 01:29 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Why would we need to help if everyone already has enough?
You need help to have enough, everyone helping is everyone having enough.
If people stopped trying to dominate eachother we could easily allocate our resources to be way more conservative. We could have machiness doing almost all our physical labor at this point in our technology.
You said *already* have enough. If I already have enough I don't need help to have enough, I already have it.
My point is, that's not the way it is. So you can talk about the dream of only one being necessary, but it isn't the reality. Which is what I'm discussing, what's real right now. Who knows what the future holds? If we don't get real about what currently exists how can we possibly expect to make changes? Changes to our dreams? That's easy. Changes to reality? Harder because no one wants to see it.
You've never known any other system therefore you think there are no others that can work. People will get smarter over time. Eventually people will see that by taking from others via competition all they are doing is making sure
others take from them. There is benefit from taking from others with detriment to the victim. There is no victim in giving and sharing.
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Terence McKenna ftw
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Kickle
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15186950 - 10/06/11 01:34 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Like I said bro it's easy to dream. People say utopia is on its way, people say the end is coming, people say whatever the fuck they want about the future and all of it is dodging where we are.
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Seanfu
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15186994 - 10/06/11 01:44 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Like I said bro it's easy to dream. People say utopia is on its way, people say the end is coming, people say whatever the fuck they want about the future and all of it is dodging where we are.
We are in an easily fixable situation, noone is dodging. We are controlled by a higher order, it is no conspiracy, it is competition. Without them we could easily fix most of our current problems.
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I am a chronic liar.
Terence McKenna ftw
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Kickle
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15187049 - 10/06/11 01:57 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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You mean like all the revolutions that have happened before and not solved the problem? But somehow this one would be different? What do you see now that suggests it would work?
Cause this is what I see now: Failing economies on a global scale and infrastructures that are not built to function on a failed economy. If the economy fails, the infrastructure fails. That means no way to transport food. No way to transport gas. No more travel. That means all the food that travels to get to major cities, which for most is the vast majority, will no longer be available. It gets pretty damn hard to share when you don't have any yourself.
Infrastructure can be rebuilt and likely in a more efficient way, but it will get a lot worse and more cutthroat before it gets better. Just my opinion based on what I see. I'm interested to hear what you see that makes you confident that sharing and caring are just around the corner.
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle] 1
#15187460 - 10/06/11 03:29 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Kickle said:
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c0sm0nautt said:
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While rarely discussed in the mainstream media, an awakening is currently underway: More and more people are coming to realize that what we use as money is not some natural force or omnipotent being, but a magic spell. This spell is maintained by the oracles and high priests of finance from their well-guarded temples -- the banks and treasuries -- where they alchemically transmute little bits of paper or blips of data into valuable artifacts, using occult symbol, incantation, and numerical abracadabra. Indeed, what the financial sorcerers fear more than anything is a collective loss of faith in the abstruse and arcane instruments they use to bind the great human mob in invisible chains of debt, servitude, and scarcity.
Excerpt from the intro of a new book. Here is the full introduction here: http://www.realitysandwich.com/impossible_alternative
What do you all think? Personally I feel the survival of our species depends on us moving away from the current capitalist-money as debt model. Let the ideas reverberate through the noosphere.
I have no idea if that's what's going on or not. I don't believe in money as a force but I do believe in survival as a force embodied in the symbol of money. If money is no longer the symbol, something else will be. And when that happens people will collect massive amounts of the symbol under the misguided notion that the more symbolic survival they have, the more likely they are to survive
In the full article it goes on to say that people are always looking for a symbol - a goal, something to strive for. Imagine the global change that would take place if money is taken out of the equation and we are striving for things like personal betterment, art, and the global society. People want to be a part of something. The stage is ripening.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15187478 - 10/06/11 03:32 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Kickle said:
How could anyone ever be free from debt? We consume energy constantly and so are constantly requiring more. We're always in debt to a food source in one form or another. Not to mention all the other ways we are naturally in debt just by nature of being alive. We are debters from the get go on a limited supply of time that is always getting shorter.
What if someone is living on a permaculture commune where they are recycling everything back into nature? I'm talking about a holistic way of living here - in touch with nature. Granted, our current system is the antithesis to this, but nearly anything that can be imagined can be realized if there is a will.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
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I'd say it's a very big move from where we are and unlikely to succeed for the majority by volition as a result. Habits don't just disappear, including mental habits. People are attached to their things as can be seen if someone tries to steal something as simple as an ipod. To expect things that aren't even luxury items to be given up freely is asking a lot out of people IMO. To remake the structure of a society I suspect the old will have to crash and burn with people clinging to it the whole way down. I think it's already happening really. The government which is like the hydra head of a society will be the last thing to die off.
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15187559 - 10/06/11 03:48 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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I do too. I didn't say it was going to be voluntary. 
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
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Well that takes care of some habits by virtue of losing what supported the habit. But IMO the mental habits will remain in whatever society forms to replace the old because they can. If they didn't I would be incredibly and very pleasantly surprised.
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crkhd
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15187601 - 10/06/11 03:57 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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On the British notes it states "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of X pounds"
When the bearer demands his money, they will not be able to pay thanks to the nature of interest. They shall pay with their souls.
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SHABOOM
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oojijimoo
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15187612 - 10/06/11 04:00 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Icelander said:
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guruu said:
yeah like not everybody owns the means of production but everybody works. classic marxism.
Those that don't own the means to production don't have the skills to create such. Working does not put one into debt. Spending more than you make certainly will.
just by living in society we spend more than we make. if you live in america you contribute to the entropy of the planet's biosphere. I believe love can counteract entropy, but how many people really give back more love than they take in? Let alone power...we're dependent on something much larger than ourselves for much of our power.
this is why the only way to be a positive vibed member of society is to remain as the self, imo
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15187622 - 10/06/11 04:01 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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It would be a grand experiment for sure. I'd be curious to see how many human qualities are culturally influenced as opposed to innate. It seems to be a two way street, and I'd imagine a society, such as that of permaculture communes valuing art and eduction, to breed the qualities of cooperation and love, opposed to greed and domination.
It all comes back to the whole spiritual idea of choosing love over fear, unity over separation. Do we think we are separate individuals struggling to survive in this dark world or do we see ourselves as one organism in a constant stage of evolution?
Technology may facilitate a noosphere with the global brain akin to a underground mycilium network. Resources can be allocation to where they need to go. We do have enough on this planet to house and feed every human, the scarcity is an illusion - the problem is allocation.
Time will tell. Without dreamers we would never progress. We need to start dreaming in the good and not the bad. I'm starting to read books on permaculture and will be started a large garden this Spring, or ever better transform my Grandparents summer house in upstate NY into a commune.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: crkhd]
#15187625 - 10/06/11 04:02 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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damn that's a steep increase 
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Seanfu
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15187627 - 10/06/11 04:02 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
You mean like all the revolutions that have happened before and not solved the problem? But somehow this one would be different? What do you see now that suggests it would work?
Cause this is what I see now: Failing economies on a global scale and infrastructures that are not built to function on a failed economy. If the economy fails, the infrastructure fails. That means no way to transport food. No way to transport gas. No more travel. That means all the food that travels to get to major cities, which for most is the vast majority, will no longer be available. It gets pretty damn hard to share when you don't have any yourself.
Infrastructure can be rebuilt and likely in a more efficient way, but it will get a lot worse and more cutthroat before it gets better. Just my opinion based on what I see. I'm interested to hear what you see that makes you confident that sharing and caring are just around the corner.
It may not be, but it could easily be if we actually were trying to fix our problems. How long did we intentionally suppress hydrogen technology? We could have free electricity by now.
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I am a chronic liar.
Terence McKenna ftw
http://lawofone.info/ Something all seekers should at least browse.
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Kickle
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It would be a grand experiment for sure.
Unfortunately it's been done and repeated many times throughout history and always has the same results. 
I agree we need dreamers. I'm a dreamer myself. I share in the Buddha's goal of ending ignorance. What people do from that point on is as open as it gets. But I also agree with the Buddhist teachings that when people act out of ignorance, only more ignorance can be gained. It's a long ongoing cycle for humanity and from what I've seen it hasn't changed much. People don't want to acknowledge that fear drives them and would prefer to stay ignorant to the fact. IMO as long as that fundamental ignorance remains there is nothing that can be done to prevent the same cycle from continuing to happen as a result.
really good thread
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Icelander
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15187856 - 10/06/11 04:41 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
explain how it is a cop out? Where did you learn your behaviors in regards to money?
I learned them from my dad who was a minimum wage+ maintenance man. We were at the very bottom of middle class. For instance I had to work and save for my first bike. I got no allowance at home. It took me years while everyone else in the neighborhood had a bike. I know how to save and it's paid off big for me.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
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In the full article it goes on to say that people are always looking for a symbol - a goal, something to strive for. Imagine the global change that would take place if money is taken out of the equation and we are striving for things like personal betterment, art, and the global society. People want to be a part of something. The stage is ripening.
No "people" don't want that. If "people" wanted that they would have done it long ago. A few people want that.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15187986 - 10/06/11 05:07 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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They need the right direction. Look at nationalism or sports, or whatever other sense of identity, and you will see people want to be a part of something.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
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Do you think people can be lead to love?
You can take a horse to water...?
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Seanfu
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15188200 - 10/06/11 05:46 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Do you think people can be lead to love?
You can take a horse to water...?
People love when they're not scared as shit in every which way.
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I am a chronic liar.
Terence McKenna ftw
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Kickle
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15188249 - 10/06/11 05:56 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Sure. But I can't think of a time we haven't been scared to shit. Mostly scared to shit of dying. A fear that follows us into every society.
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deCypher
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Yea, let us banish this dark magic that is holding us captive with debt by getting out there and robbing your nearest liquor store. A ski mask as ceremonial robe and a sawed-off shotgun as consecrated wand should work admirably. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Seanfu
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15188309 - 10/06/11 06:06 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Sure. But I can't think of a time we haven't been scared to shit. Mostly scared to shit of dying. A fear that follows us into every society.
Mostly scared as shit because we're lied to by our controlling powers' propaganda. Thank god the 60's were around to show us that a mass group of people could swoop through by the thousands and not steal a single item.
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I am a chronic liar.
Terence McKenna ftw
http://lawofone.info/ Something all seekers should at least browse.
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Icelander
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
They need the right direction. Look at nationalism or sports, or whatever other sense of identity, and you will see people want to be a part of something.
Yeah sports is a great example. They want to be part of some kind of violence.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15188331 - 10/06/11 06:09 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Sure. But I can't think of a time we haven't been scared to shit. Mostly scared to shit of dying. A fear that follows us into every society.
Mostly scared as shit because we're lied to by our controlling powers' propaganda. Thank god the 60's were around to show us that a mass group of people could swoop through by the thousands and not steal a single item.
What mass group was that?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: deCypher]
#15188492 - 10/06/11 06:33 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Do you think people can be lead to love?
You can take a horse to water...?
What if love makes sense from a survival perspective? I think it may come out of necessity as the next stage of human evolution. The global tribe. It's all coming hand and hand with an evolution of consciousness IMO.
Quote:
deCypher said:
Yea, let us banish this dark magic that is holding us captive with debt by getting out there and robbing your nearest liquor store. A ski mask as ceremonial robe and a sawed-off shotgun as consecrated wand should work admirably.
All this occupy Wall St. stuff is getting me excited.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Lion
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Do you think people can be lead to love?
You can take a horse to water...?
What if love makes sense from a survival perspective? I think it may come out of necessity as the next stage of human evolution. The global tribe. It's all coming hand and hand with an evolution of consciousness IMO.
Quote:
deCypher said:
Yea, let us banish this dark magic that is holding us captive with debt by getting out there and robbing your nearest liquor store. A ski mask as ceremonial robe and a sawed-off shotgun as consecrated wand should work admirably.
All this occupy Wall St. stuff is getting me excited.
Well, working under the model of money as magic, robbing a liquor store wouldn't be breaking the spell. One would still be under the captivity of the spell, enough to be willing to potentially harm others in order to acquire the magical substance.
As to what Icelander says: "No species survives." As far as I know we are the only species that has every been able to examine the fossil record and make such a determination. I think a species that knows its vulnerability to environmental changes at least has the potential to alter its course and survive.
At the rate technology is advancing, our survival, terrestrial or extra-terrestrial, is possible...By the same token, the more our technology advances, the more we seem to destroy ourselves.
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Icelander
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What if love makes sense from a survival perspective? I think it may come out of necessity as the next stage of human evolution. The global tribe. It's all coming hand and hand with an evolution of consciousness IMO.
I'm amazed that any reasoning look at the world at large brings you to this conclusion.  Or any study of human psychology.
I sometimes think you think the Spirituality forum is the whole world. You must not pay much attention to current events around the world, that or you very selectively observe them. While a few first world malcontents protest on the street, wars and famin and environmental degradation etc. rage across the globe.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander] 1
#15188904 - 10/06/11 07:50 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
What if love makes sense from a survival perspective? I think it may come out of necessity as the next stage of human evolution. The global tribe. It's all coming hand and hand with an evolution of consciousness IMO.
I'm amazed that any reasoning look at the world at large brings you to this conclusion. Or any study of human psychology.
I sometimes think you think the Spirituality forum is the whole world. You must not pay much attention to current events around the world, that or you very selectively observe them. While a few first world malcontents protest on the street, wars and famin and environmental degradation etc. rage across the globe.
Speak for yourself. I know what's real in my experience. My life has been very loving. I have a loving family, loving friends and have had pretty good encounters with the majority of the people I have met in this world. I love people and think the majority are genuinely good people, who want to do the right thing. We have our challenges ahead of us, sure - but for the most part I see it as a structural problem, not a human problem. It's not easy to put together this 6 billion piece puzzle.
What you call the "current events of the world" is the darkness filter they show us through the mainstream media. The world is not as bad as you think. The good news doesn't get any attention. If your dwelling on the negative all the time it's going to rub off on you. Lighten up a bit! We're all going to be dead soon enough anyway, let us at least try and do something cool and fun. 
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Lion
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: c0sm0nautt] 1
#15188965 - 10/06/11 08:01 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
The world is not as bad as you think.
It depends on what you mean by this. Are you referring to the human world? And are you speaking from a matter-of-fact perspective, or from an Eastern "all suffering is ultimately an illusion perspective"? I would say that the current state of the human world is not only as bad as you think it is, it's probably much worse than you can begin to imagine. There is a lot of extreme suffering taking place, in case you had not noticed.
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deCypher
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Lion]
#15189040 - 10/06/11 08:20 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Do you think people can be lead to love?
You can take a horse to water...?
What if love makes sense from a survival perspective? I think it may come out of necessity as the next stage of human evolution. The global tribe. It's all coming hand and hand with an evolution of consciousness IMO.
Quote:
deCypher said:
Yea, let us banish this dark magic that is holding us captive with debt by getting out there and robbing your nearest liquor store. A ski mask as ceremonial robe and a sawed-off shotgun as consecrated wand should work admirably.
All this occupy Wall St. stuff is getting me excited.
Well, working under the model of money as magic, robbing a liquor store wouldn't be breaking the spell. One would still be under the captivity of the spell, enough to be willing to potentially harm others in order to acquire the magical substance.
Well, I was referring more to the spell of debt... increasing your own wealth could potentially allow you to break the chains that bind you in the form of financial obligation towards others.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander] 1
#15189076 - 10/06/11 08:28 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
How is society placing you in debt? I've never had that experience in almost 60 years due to the fact that I've always lived within my means. I've never been a spoiled and entitled brat like most Americans. Wanting everything for nothing and always blaming others for their own mistakes and ignorance.
Living within your means and not being in debt means you aren't ignorant and don't make mistakes? I guarantee you destroy the planet on a daily basis just like everyone else in this country. Being a sheep that is slightly better than the others makes you no less a sheep. In this world of infinite possibilities, any one of us could easily be the catalyst for change necessary to save everyone from themselves, but instead you see the world as separate selves, where other people are causing all of the problems. Instead of actually helping to solve those problems, you make your own life manageable, and sit back and blame everyone else. Do you seriously see yourself as not ignorant? We're all unreasonably ignorant, get over it already. We intellectually are laughably infantile. We've managed to nearly destroy an entire billions of years in the making ecosystem in the matter of a few centuries. Every person on this planet should be ashamed of what humanity has done. It is amusing that anyone in this age could consider themselves anything BUT ignorant and arrogant. But hey, at least you'll be sitting on your high horse as nature destroys every last one of us, right?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God  The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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c0sm0nautt
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Posts: 9,432
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Lion]
#15189289 - 10/06/11 09:06 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
Quote:
The world is not as bad as you think.
It depends on what you mean by this. Are you referring to the human world? And are you speaking from a matter-of-fact perspective, or from an Eastern "all suffering is ultimately an illusion perspective"? I would say that the current state of the human world is not only as bad as you think it is, it's probably much worse than you can begin to imagine. There is a lot of extreme suffering taking place, in case you had not noticed.
Everyone suffers. IMO, The degree of that suffering is largely dependent on the individual. By keeping a positive outlook and mindset you can dramatically decrease your suffering. When you stop focusing on your own suffering (decrease the hold of the ego-victim-mentality) it allows you the opportunity to alleviate the suffering of others. In that sense I am looking at it from both a "matter-of-fact" and non-dual perspective. Amazing things happen when we change the tune of our internal life story - or stop it altogether.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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I've seen some Buddhist writings that suggest a person's place in the world makes a significant impact on their spiritual life. Do you disagree? Do you think all people are afforded the same spiritual opportunities?
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15189328 - 10/06/11 09:12 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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i think so. the Self is here for everyone. there seems to be a process where many people are not yet matured enough to recognize and abide as the self. but from any individual's perspective i respect you too much as a being not to say that you are the Self, and should remain as such to the best of your capacity.
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the human abstract
White Girl
Registered: 11/30/09
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
If your dwelling on the negative all the time it's going to rub off on you. Lighten up a bit! We're all going to be dead soon enough anyway, let us at least try and do something cool and fun.
I wanna live a long life with plenty of religious experiences though.. It sucks that we die but it's better to look at it as "FUCK YOU DEATH" instead of we're gonna die anyways..
i have to clean a restaurant even tho it gets dirty everyday
i get to buy more and more things though and the business keeps going
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Everyone suffers. IMO, The degree of that suffering is largely dependent on the individual. By keeping a positive outlook and mindset you can dramatically decrease your suffering.
Ideally. From what I've seen, there are few people who have actually developed the tools to be able to stay upbeat and positive in the face of suffering. I don't see an innate capacity in humans to positively alter their mind-states at will -- it's more of an acquired value, like charity or patience. In my experience those who are able to maintain peace and positivity when things go bad are those who are inclined towards strong religious and spiritual faith. If I were a cynic I would say this is because for thousands of years people have been taught to slog towards the brilliant light at the end of the tunnel.....
According to Buddhist and Hindu philosophy, it can take a whole lifetime, if not thousands of lives, to really have some measure of equanimity and compassion while suffering is immense. I agree that everyone suffers in life, and most suffer quite a bit, but not everyone suffers equally...not by a long shot.
Anyway, I originally meant to address what you were saying about the media making everything look worse than it is. Sure, major news channels play on strong negative emotions. But in many cases, the opposite is true, where the media only pays lip-service to, or ignores entirely, things which are really heinous and appalling. The darkness of the world far outweighs the light, IMHO.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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What you call the "current events of the world" is the darkness filter they show us through the mainstream media.
This demonstrates the isolation bubble you put your self in. As you said all your experience is with family and friends. I've been in third world countries and around this country. I've had guns pointed at me and have been shot at. I know this isn't all some media fantasy.
Just because I'm willing to go into the world at large and be honest about what I see doesn't make me not light. I just don't pretend. Maybe down the road you'll see what I'm talking about.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15190212 - 10/07/11 03:58 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
How is society placing you in debt? I've never had that experience in almost 60 years due to the fact that I've always lived within my means. I've never been a spoiled and entitled brat like most Americans. Wanting everything for nothing and always blaming others for their own mistakes and ignorance.
Living within your means and not being in debt means you aren't ignorant and don't make mistakes? I guarantee you destroy the planet on a daily basis just like everyone else in this country. Being a sheep that is slightly better than the others makes you no less a sheep. In this world of infinite possibilities, any one of us could easily be the catalyst for change necessary to save everyone from themselves, but instead you see the world as separate selves, where other people are causing all of the problems. Instead of actually helping to solve those problems, you make your own life manageable, and sit back and blame everyone else. Do you seriously see yourself as not ignorant? We're all unreasonably ignorant, get over it already. We intellectually are laughably infantile. We've managed to nearly destroy an entire billions of years in the making ecosystem in the matter of a few centuries. Every person on this planet should be ashamed of what humanity has done. It is amusing that anyone in this age could consider themselves anything BUT ignorant and arrogant. But hey, at least you'll be sitting on your high horse as nature destroys every last one of us, right?
Wow talk about going off topic to try and make some kind of a point that has little to do with my post. I've made plenty of posts about how we all are responsible for the destruction of this planet. And I never said anywhere that I was not a sheep. I SAID, that we are mostly responsible for the financial messes we get ourselves into. That's it. So get off your high horse preacher.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Lion]
#15190215 - 10/07/11 04:00 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Anyway, I originally meant to address what you were saying about the media making everything look worse than it is. Sure, major news channels play on strong negative emotions. But in many cases, the opposite is true, where the media only pays lip-service to, or ignores entirely, things which are really heinous and appalling. The darkness of the world far outweighs the light, IMHO.
QFT
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15190221 - 10/07/11 04:03 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
i think so. the Self is here for everyone. there seems to be a process where many people are not yet matured enough to recognize and abide as the self. but from any individual's perspective i respect you too much as a being not to say that you are the Self, and should remain as such to the best of your capacity.
So you are saying a starving aids baby that maybe lives to the age of 5 or 10 with malnutrition brain damage has the same opportunities to learn as a person in Sweden?
I'm afraid you haven't thought this through.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15190781 - 10/07/11 08:23 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
What you call the "current events of the world" is the darkness filter they show us through the mainstream media.
This demonstrates the isolation bubble you put your self in. As you said all your experience is with family and friends. I've been in third world countries and around this country. I've had guns pointed at me and have been shot at. I know this isn't all some media fantasy.
Just because I'm willing to go into the world at large and be honest about what I see doesn't make me not light. I just don't pretend. Maybe down the road you'll see what I'm talking about.
I believe to a large extent we attract certain experiences to ourselves. No offense, but the man with 60,000 posts on an internet forum is calling me out for being in an isolation bubble.
Remember the thread about the Bully and the Bullied? Most of us agreed that the Bully and Bullied attract each other through some internal alchemy. On the same note, if you are a negative person always looking for something to complain about (victim consciousness), this is what is going to manifest in your experience. This is an idea which has rung true from my subjective experience - my reality.
Quote:
Lion said:
Anyway, I originally meant to address what you were saying about the media making everything look worse than it is. Sure, major news channels play on strong negative emotions. But in many cases, the opposite is true, where the media only pays lip-service to, or ignores entirely, things which are really heinous and appalling. The darkness of the world far outweighs the light, IMHO.
From my experience with the News, it hardly ever focuses on anything positive. For example, are they going to play a story about a home invasion where a family is murdered or one about how a nice person stopped on the side of the road to give someone else a hand? The News is almost entirely negative. It had people afraid to leave their houses because of this "scary dark world." This simply hasn't been my experience with people and places.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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I believe to a large extent we attract certain experiences to ourselves. No offense, but the man with 60,000 posts on an internet forum is calling me out for being in an isolation bubble.
Bullshit. I've lived a whole life before you and the internet were even born. I've traveled over a lot of America by hitchhiking and traveled to several foreign countries. And met thousands of people. You were the one that said you got your experience with family and friends. The fact that I'm retired now and post a lot doesn't mean jack and you know it. My posts are based on almost 60 years of experience. What about yours?
The fact is that the news rarely really gives a detailed picture of the atrocities going on in the world or the extent of them. People won't have the gritty details and photos bothering them. I'm just reading a book on what's been going on in Africa since the 80s and that alone would be enough to convince any rational person. "no offense"
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15190853 - 10/07/11 08:46 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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I knew that post comment would get a rise out of you. 
I'm not arguing that "negative" things don't exist. I am arguing that the negative isn't the majority, as portrayed by the media.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15190997 - 10/07/11 09:24 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
guruu said:
i think so. the Self is here for everyone. there seems to be a process where many people are not yet matured enough to recognize and abide as the self. but from any individual's perspective i respect you too much as a being not to say that you are the Self, and should remain as such to the best of your capacity.
So you are saying a starving aids baby that maybe lives to the age of 5 or 10 with malnutrition brain damage has the same opportunities to learn as a person in Sweden?
I'm afraid you haven't thought this through.
no icelander that's not what i'm saying. that baby is also a manifestation of the Self, but I find it highly unlikely that it will realize itself in that incarnation. it's one of the "not yet matured enough" individuals.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
I knew that post comment would get a rise out of you.
I'm not arguing that "negative" things don't exist. I am arguing that the negative isn't the majority, as portrayed by the media.
I know what you're arguing and I disagree. Look at all the domestic violence and just plain meanness and cheating and lying that goes on in every day life. Not to mention animal abuse which is not just the torture of animals but neglect of their emotional well being which I would say is about 75% of dog owners. I could make a huge list of things like that that never or almost never make it into your daily news. How about sexual infidelity. Look at the stats on that one alone.
I also know their are acts of great kindness and compassion but imo it's far from the majority of human experience.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15191020 - 10/07/11 09:28 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
guruu said:
i think so. the Self is here for everyone. there seems to be a process where many people are not yet matured enough to recognize and abide as the self. but from any individual's perspective i respect you too much as a being not to say that you are the Self, and should remain as such to the best of your capacity.
So you are saying a starving aids baby that maybe lives to the age of 5 or 10 with malnutrition brain damage has the same opportunities to learn as a person in Sweden?
I'm afraid you haven't thought this through.
no icelander that's not what i'm saying. that baby is also a manifestation of the Self, but I find it highly unlikely that it will realize itself in that incarnation. it's one of the "not yet matured enough" individuals.
The idea of reincarnation is a non starter for me. I just deal with what is apparent and here in front of us.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
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Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15191035 - 10/07/11 09:31 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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i never introduced reincarnation. I'm not saying it's fair in terms of everybody realizing themselves. In fact shit seems pretty brutal in that regard. what's fair is that the opportunity is there for all.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15191377 - 10/07/11 11:06 AM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
I knew that post comment would get a rise out of you.
I'm not arguing that "negative" things don't exist. I am arguing that the negative isn't the majority, as portrayed by the media.
I know what you're arguing and I disagree. Look at all the domestic violence and just plain meanness and cheating and lying that goes on in every day life. Not to mention animal abuse which is not just the torture of animals but neglect of their emotional well being which I would say is about 75% of dog owners. I could make a huge list of things like that that never or almost never make it into your daily news. How about sexual infidelity. Look at the stats on that one alone.
I also know their are acts of great kindness and compassion but imo it's far from the majority of human experience.
You think 75% of dog owner's neglect their pets?
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
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emotionally. And I'd agree with it. People emotionally abuse animals all the time, taking out negative feelings on them. My girlfriend works at a vet right now and it's story after story of owners who don't know how to handle an animal except through raising their voice or physically manhandling them. Some of the worst stories have been of those who were clearly abused as children raising pets. It turns into a real ugly mess.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15191510 - 10/07/11 11:42 AM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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But 75%? I call bullshit on that. I know a lot of pet owners and they all treat their animals reasonably well. In fact, most of those animals have a better standard of living than some people around the world.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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There are super wealthy children who are extremely emotionally abused.
Do you think those kids who get whatever they want are developing healthy emotions? Are they happy?
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15191539 - 10/07/11 11:48 AM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Wow talk about going off topic to try and make some kind of a point that has little to do with my post. I've made plenty of posts about how we all are responsible for the destruction of this planet. And I never said anywhere that I was not a sheep. I SAID, that we are mostly responsible for the financial messes we get ourselves into. That's it. So get off your high horse preacher.
Maybe I came across too strong, but my point is simply that debt is not just financial, and you seem to be criticizing others because your finances are balanced. I see such a view as very problematic, as we are all entirely dependent on each other, and entirely dependent on systems outside of economics, and these issues are ones that need to be regarded as social problems, not personal problems. You were lucky enough to experience the conditions you experienced in order to be in the position you are now, and such a position comes with the responsibility of being altruistic and helping others achieve the position that you have, not stomping on their heads while they are down. If I was on a high horse, then I would think myself better than you. Believe me, my internal dialogue is far more deprecating than the mild comments I threw at you. If that seems "Off topic" then so be it, but that's the whole point, people come from broadly different backgrounds with broadly different perspectives. We can't all interpret situations in the way that you did in order to achieve financial stability, because not all of us had the same life experiences. It is the responsibility of those who achieve success to light the path for others, instead of providing negative comments that only serve to make positive change even more difficult for those that are struggling. In regards to me being "on my high horse", my comments towards you are nothing to how self-deprecating my internal dialogue is.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/07/11 11:50 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15191561 - 10/07/11 11:52 AM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
i never introduced reincarnation. I'm not saying it's fair in terms of everybody realizing themselves. In fact shit seems pretty brutal in that regard. what's fair is that the opportunity is there for all.
You said but I find it highly unlikely that it will realize itself in that incarnation.
And no the opportunity is not there for all as per my example of the starving, brain starved african aids child.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15191569 - 10/07/11 11:53 AM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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You were lucky enough to experience the conditions you experienced in order to be in the position you are now, and such a position comes with the responsibility of being altruistic and helping others achieve the position that you have, not stomping on their heads while they are down.
Not true at all man. If the position came with a responsibility, then everyone would be responsible. It doesn't work that way though because no position comes with any intrinsic traits. We create what "needs" to be there. And if someone disagrees you can't force them to feel it "needs" to be there too. That's just controlling yo.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15191570 - 10/07/11 11:53 AM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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incarnation, manifestation, whatever, i wasn't trying to speak metaphysically.
the baby has being. his brain is fucked up though so he probably can't realize it. he's being all the same.
plus you're using this ridiculous extreme example when self realization (and therefor an awareness of all this societal money stuff) is fully practical for 99% of people.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
I knew that post comment would get a rise out of you.
I'm not arguing that "negative" things don't exist. I am arguing that the negative isn't the majority, as portrayed by the media.
I know what you're arguing and I disagree. Look at all the domestic violence and just plain meanness and cheating and lying that goes on in every day life. Not to mention animal abuse which is not just the torture of animals but neglect of their emotional well being which I would say is about 75% of dog owners. I could make a huge list of things like that that never or almost never make it into your daily news. How about sexual infidelity. Look at the stats on that one alone.
I also know their are acts of great kindness and compassion but imo it's far from the majority of human experience.
You think 75% of dog owner's neglect their pets?
Yes. Most dogs are left alone for hours with nothing to do while the slave master works or plays. That's neglect right there imo. Unless of course you think they are just dumb animals without feelings and lesser beings than humans.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15191601 - 10/07/11 12:00 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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and you seem to be criticizing others because your finances are balanced.
What I'm criticizing is the statement that these folk are victims of circumstances beyond their control when the truth is that that is the reality in only a very few cases. My finances didn't just magically balance themselves, I worked my ass off to learn how to do it and then to become a disciplined person with a proper (imo) perspective towards the material world. This is something that most self indulgent, entitled, credit card toting, junk buying, people are not. I'm not responsible for the mess they are in and I really don't want to bail them out cause the'll just do it all over again as history has shown.
In regards to me being "on my high horse", my comments towards you are nothing to how self-deprecating my internal dialogue is.
Bummer for you but you are the one who brought the term "high horse" into this conversation and imo the shoe fits you better than it does me.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15191807 - 10/07/11 12:47 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
There are super wealthy children who are extremely emotionally abused.
Do you think those kids who get whatever they want are developing healthy emotions? Are they happy?
By standard of living I am referring to quality of life, which includes emotional well being. I stand by that most of the pets I know have pretty good lives.
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
I knew that post comment would get a rise out of you.
I'm not arguing that "negative" things don't exist. I am arguing that the negative isn't the majority, as portrayed by the media.
I know what you're arguing and I disagree. Look at all the domestic violence and just plain meanness and cheating and lying that goes on in every day life. Not to mention animal abuse which is not just the torture of animals but neglect of their emotional well being which I would say is about 75% of dog owners. I could make a huge list of things like that that never or almost never make it into your daily news. How about sexual infidelity. Look at the stats on that one alone.
I also know their are acts of great kindness and compassion but imo it's far from the majority of human experience.
You think 75% of dog owner's neglect their pets?
Yes. Most dogs are left alone for hours with nothing to do while the slave master works or plays. That's neglect right there imo. Unless of course you think they are just dumb animals without feelings and lesser beings than humans.
I wish I got to lay around for a few extra hours a day. Leaving your dog at home when you go to work is hardly emotional abuse. Carnivores in the wild are known to lay around the majority of the day.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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I would love to stick you in my back yard for eight or ten hours a day with nothing to do. You'd last about four hours. You should never own a dog imo.
And dogs are pack animals. Laying around in the wild includes company. Wake up.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15191879 - 10/07/11 01:05 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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I have two dogs. They have each other for company when I work. Dogs live more in the moment than humans, they don't need compulsive tasks all day to stay happy.
What do you propose no one who works should own a pet? 
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
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I would propose that no one at all should own a pet, because of all the totally unnecessary suffering that the pet industry causes. Of course, it's different if one adopts, but even that is ethically debatable, since it still intrinsically supports the pet industry.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Lion]
#15191924 - 10/07/11 01:15 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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ya thats sorta fascist tho to have rules like that
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Lion]
#15191944 - 10/07/11 01:19 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
I would propose that no one at all should own a pet, because of all the totally unnecessary suffering that the pet industry causes. Of course, it's different if one adopts, but even that is ethically debatable, since it still intrinsically supports the pet industry.
I see the love I have between myself and my pets and your statement seems ludicrous. My pets are adopted btw.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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ColorsandKinds
universalparticular
Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 3
Last seen: 7 months, 18 days
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it seems money is the only "magic" that kills people. i hate to think that some person out there would be willing to kill me for my money. money in fact creates more problems than it solves. the idea that it solves problems is just an illusion.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 7,363
Last seen: 12 hours, 19 minutes
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Lion said:
I would propose that no one at all should own a pet, because of all the totally unnecessary suffering that the pet industry causes. Of course, it's different if one adopts, but even that is ethically debatable, since it still intrinsically supports the pet industry.
I see the love I have between myself and my pets and your statement seems ludicrous. My pets are adopted btw.
What I said may seem ludicrous or not, but your emotions don't make it so, only logic does that.
Quote:
ya thats sorta fascist tho to have rules like that
Indeed, I wouldn't advocate a law per se, I am just commenting that I perceive the breeding and selling of pets as inhumane and cruel. Adopting is much better than buying, I'll readily admit, if you are a good and caring owner. But it still aids the pet industry by alleviating the collective societal burden of the excessive amounts of animals that are bred, sold, and discarded. If the burden got too heavy and there were no individuals willing to alleviate it, society as a whole might force the pet industry and pet buyers to change their ways.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
ColorsandKinds said:
it seems money is the only "magic" that kills people. i hate to think that some person out there would be willing to kill me for my money. money in fact creates more problems than it solves. the idea that it solves problems is just an illusion.
What's the alternative, the barter system?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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ColorsandKinds
universalparticular
Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 3
Last seen: 7 months, 18 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: deCypher]
#15192056 - 10/07/11 01:51 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
ColorsandKinds said:
it seems money is the only "magic" that kills people. i hate to think that some person out there would be willing to kill me for my money. money in fact creates more problems than it solves. the idea that it solves problems is just an illusion.
What's the alternative, the barter system?
There has to be a better option for long term sustainability. i mean we invent all these bombs and we think we're fucking smart so how hard can it be to find an alternative. it wouldn't be the barter system tho.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Well? What is the alternative then? How hard can it be?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15192133 - 10/07/11 02:09 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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How about a centralized credit system where essential goods are weighed differently from earth destroying commodities.
How about a resource based economy where we devise a system to share things like boats and cars.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: c0sm0nautt] 2
#15192194 - 10/07/11 02:22 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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How do you get people to agree to all that? Start with Zappasgod. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15192249 - 10/07/11 02:32 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think it will come out of necessity. The common enemy is mutual assured destruction.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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thefloodbehind
Mighty Microcosm
Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 797
Loc: Nashville, TN
Last seen: 2 days, 9 hours
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HAHA. I plan on going into finance. I also love dark artistic imagery. Whoohoo I'm a necromancer!
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Night is falling. The world’s night is spreading its darkness, by the ‘default of God.’ Not only have the gods and the god fled, but the divine radiance has become extinguished in the world’s history. It has already grown so destitute, it can no longer discern the default of God as a default. Because of this default, there fails to appear for the world the ground that grounds it. The age for which the ground fails to come hangs in the abyss. Assuming that a turn still remains open for this destitute time at all, it can come some day only if the world turns about fundamentally—and that now means, unequivocally. But for this it is necessary that there be those who reach into the abyss. — Martin Heidigger, “What Are Poets For?”
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think it will come out of necessity. The common enemy is mutual assured destruction.
It was necessary for Rome and other past empires to wake up also. Yet they all kept putting it off until the last minute and ended up with Nero fiddling on the roof while Rome burned.
I really wouldn't prefer to point all this out. It saddens me frankly but there it is. How do you think all these people lost their homes in the housing bubble? Not by being prepared or being realistic about what was going on in the world.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15192459 - 10/07/11 03:22 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Many people lost their homes in 2008 because they were not being realistic about what is going on in the world. You can't blame the bankers or the government really either because they are also just doing what they wilt, right? I don't blame anyone really. The complexities of financial speculation are obscure even to the most elite of the capitalist class.
Money is indeed magic, a spell right now I believe only workers will break who themselves have a shared vision of what the 21st century needs to look like for future generations.
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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The complexities of financial speculation are obscure even to the most elite of the capitalist class.
Then I must be the hugest genius on the face of the earth because I have no trouble with most of it. I keep it simple and win.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander] 3
#15194259 - 10/07/11 11:19 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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Good for you!
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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It's not brain surgery
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think it will come out of necessity. The common enemy is mutual assured destruction.
OK c0sm0nautt take a gander at this documentary. This isn't an isolated group but a country of 10 million humans. Go ahead watch it and then tell me how you can make your statements jibe with this reality.
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Frontline_Battle_for_Haiti/70170420?trkid=4213515
This one even blew me away.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15198147 - 10/08/11 08:54 PM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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What is the documentary called? That link didn't work.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Battle for Haiti. It's a Frontline program.
Link seems to work for me.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15198924 - 10/09/11 02:55 AM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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That link will only work if you're a Netflix member.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: deCypher]
#15199097 - 10/09/11 05:10 AM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Then he should become one. 
In the wake of Haiti's catastrophic 2010 earthquake, 4,500 violent criminals escaped from Port-au-Prince's National Penitentiary, and the venerable public affairs show returns to the city a year later to find a population living in fear and despair. With many escapees still at large, director Dan Reed talks with police chief Mario Andresol, U.N. mission officials and several of the fugitives about the deep-rooted problems plaguing the country.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15199327 - 10/09/11 07:32 AM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Then he should become one.
Why would I give some corporation money when I can get all of the media for free?
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Then he should become one.
Why would I give some corporation money when I can get all of the media for free?
So you can read my posts silly. Can you get that video for free?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15199519 - 10/09/11 08:39 AM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Yes, but the time to watch it is another thing.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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In other words....
Same thing you've said about Becker's book. But you have plenty of time for things you agree with.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15200949 - 10/09/11 02:09 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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we all have our own interests and things we go deep into....
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15201230 - 10/09/11 03:01 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
we all have our own interests and things we go deep into....
Oh I agree. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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I"m going to quote Ped here who posts at the shroomery and is a monk in a buddhist monastery.
Granted, an objective assessment of things forces us to acknowledge an overwhelming body of painful and difficult-to-tolerate realities,
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Cups
technically "here"
Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,924
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander] 1
#15201497 - 10/09/11 03:48 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
In other words....
Same thing you've said about Becker's book. But you have plenty of time for things you agree with.
I think someday you and Cosmo are going to realize your father and long lost son or something.
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No more words of wisdom.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Cups]
#15201833 - 10/09/11 05:10 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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I'm just trying to help him out. He's such a nice guy.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15202102 - 10/09/11 06:19 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
In other words....
Same thing you've said about Becker's book. But you have plenty of time for things you agree with.
It's grand opening at the store I work at and I am working a lot of overtime. I wish I was retired like some people.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Save your money and you can one day.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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domite
Puppet
Registered: 04/12/03
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Money is dark magic, and we can see it clear as day if we look at it from the right angle.
If you stare at a candle in an environment where nothing is moving, you will always see the flame, as it flickers and burns. But stare long enough, and everything around the flame will start to blend in and blur to a sort of grey malaise. As long as you don't move your eyes, everything that isn't moving will become impossible to see. The whole world will be reduced to a single candle flame.
When a person's perspective is locked into a particular point of view, anything that isn't changing right before their eyes is invisible.
What does this have to do with money?
Well, try moving your perspective.
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15202555 - 10/09/11 08:18 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Save your money and you can one day.
Are you sure my hard earned money will be worth anything in 25 years?
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Siriustar
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There's an often misquoted bible verse, usually twisted to "money is the root of all evil." The actual verse goes, "the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil," Timothy 6:10 [emphasis added]. I'm no bible man, but I'd have to agree with this one. Money is only a powerful spell until one recognizes it as such.
Bills are one representation of money, but really what it is supposed to be is a representation of scarcity. Before paper, there were precious metals, before that, there was the barter system. Money was only invented because it's easy to have a valuation system in terms of something absolute. Otherwise, we wind up with 18 chickens = 1 cow = 4 blowjobs, etc., defining everything in terms of each other. This gets way harder when you try to value services, by the way.
The real problem, IMO, is the want for more things than you need. Now I'm not saying I consume only enough to sustain myself, but I'm honestly not that far from that line-- I'm a recent graduate (economics, can you tell?) who can't find a job at the moment, so I'm living with my folks and just barely scraping by. I do not drive, I walk/longboard most places in a 3-mile radius, and use public transit otherwise. I'm still living like a king compared to many third-world country families, but you know what? I bet plenty of them are able to find contentedness just the same, if they know what to value.
What I've been doing lately is striving to find inner content through myself and expanded consciousness, not material things. This was, unsurprisingly, through the help of certain psychedelics. My point is that the idea that material things will somehow bring happiness is a proven fallacy. See all those post-lottery winnings studies. Real freedom, and conversely real bondage, comes from within.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Siriustar
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203453 - 10/09/11 11:48 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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As far as being able to feed everyone in the world with our current resources, though (response to a slightly older post), we are only able to do that now because of ridiculously advanced technology, allowing for 1% of the population to feed themselves and the rest of us. Before that, we were pretty much all farmers struggling to sustain just ourselves. Technology like that has been advanced so rapidly in partial thanks to capitalism, bank loans, etc.
My hope is that we'll be able to embrace an enlightened capitalism, one where we attempt to increase economic activity in a Pareto-efficient manner, internalizing all externalities, with a focus on lifting everyone up, not just the top few. Buuuut that's just my pipedream.
Also, I don't think that anything that determines life-or-death issues should be privatized. If we can afford, through taxes, to insure everyone in the nation, for example, we should. Refusal to save someone's life because they happen to be poor is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203499 - 10/10/11 12:04 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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I agree with the interpretation of that quote. Money cannot be the root of anything, for it is flowing, water-like, a constantly shifting medium that like all media is void of meaning without a user. With what intention the money is channeled, whether it's for the love of money or for love itself [god], is probably more likely to be the difference between evil and good, as subjective as these two polar qualities are.
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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AlteredAgain
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Loc: Sol III
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203518 - 10/10/11 12:12 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Also, I don't think that anything that determines life-or-death issues should be privatized. If we can afford, through taxes, to insure everyone in the nation, for example, we should.
or else:
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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domite
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203558 - 10/10/11 12:24 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
As far as being able to feed everyone in the world with our current resources, though (response to a slightly older post), we are only able to do that now because of ridiculously advanced technology, allowing for 1% of the population to feed themselves and the rest of us. Before that, we were pretty much all farmers struggling to sustain just ourselves. Technology like that has been advanced so rapidly in partial thanks to capitalism, bank loans, etc.
.
Unless I am totally misunderstanding you, this is very wrong.
At what point in history were we all farmers struggling to sustain ourselves?
What ridiculously advanced technology are you talking about?
where are you getting that 1% of us are farmers?
It really sounds like you just pulled this all out of your ass.
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Siriustar
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: domite]
#15203626 - 10/10/11 12:45 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Um, modern farming technologies? Machines that essentially till the land for us, genetically modified foods that have extremely high yield and fight off pests without the need for actual pesticides, distribution systems that let the majority of us (80%, I believe) live in cities as opposed to rural areas and still eat. Do I need to cite all my sources? Perhaps I exaggerated when I said that we were struggling to feed ourselves, but over the past several centuries we've gone from an agriculture-based system to an industrial and now service-based economy.
Those numbers were pulled from memory-- I took several econ history classes-- but they were about right according to the USDA: http://www.csrees.usda.gov/qlinks/extension.html
"Fewer than 2 percent of Americans farm for a living today, and only 17 percent of Americans now live in rural areas."
You happy?
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Siriustar
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203631 - 10/10/11 12:49 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Why exactly did you think what I said was "very wrong?" Do you have different sources with conflicting info? Or did it just sound wrong to you?
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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domite
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203728 - 10/10/11 01:40 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Okay, yeah, I overreacted. I thought you were saying that without that technology we wouldn't be able to feed the current world population with the resources we have, unless we used our current system. Since the OP referenced an article talking about organizing the economy and resources in another way, I thought that that is what you were disagreeing with.
Also in agricultural societies life certainly was harder, but having enough food wasn't usually an issue. That was one point of contention.
I just googled it and saw that the US only imports 11% of it's food, I thought it was more.
In other less technologically advanced countries I'm sure there are more farmers, but i guess that was your point; with very few farmers you need lots of industrial methods to produce the same amount of food.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Save your money and you can one day.
Are you sure my hard earned money will be worth anything in 25 years?
As long as there is culture something will be of value. Save that.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Siriustar
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: domite]
#15205754 - 10/10/11 01:49 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
domite said:
Okay, yeah, I overreacted. I thought you were saying that without that technology we wouldn't be able to feed the current world population with the resources we have, unless we used our current system. Since the OP referenced an article talking about organizing the economy and resources in another way, I thought that that is what you were disagreeing with.
Also in agricultural societies life certainly was harder, but having enough food wasn't usually an issue. That was one point of contention.
I just googled it and saw that the US only imports 11% of it's food, I thought it was more.
In other less technologically advanced countries I'm sure there are more farmers, but i guess that was your point; with very few farmers you need lots of industrial methods to produce the same amount of food.
Sorry if my tone was a bit sharp, I get a little irked when people call bullshit on my non-bullshit posts, especially when I wasn't disagreeing with someone. I suppose I sometimes forget that it's the internet, and people show up with irrelevant lies all the time for no apparent reason. A some suspicion can be healthy, and you don't know who I might be, so I'll introduce myself: I'm Siriustar, I aim for respectful and enlightening discourse, and I don't bullshit, on purpose at least. 
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15205854 - 10/10/11 02:07 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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We'll see about that.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,766
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15206144 - 10/10/11 03:13 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Quote:
domite said:
Okay, yeah, I overreacted. I thought you were saying that without that technology we wouldn't be able to feed the current world population with the resources we have, unless we used our current system. Since the OP referenced an article talking about organizing the economy and resources in another way, I thought that that is what you were disagreeing with.
Also in agricultural societies life certainly was harder, but having enough food wasn't usually an issue. That was one point of contention.
I just googled it and saw that the US only imports 11% of it's food, I thought it was more.
In other less technologically advanced countries I'm sure there are more farmers, but i guess that was your point; with very few farmers you need lots of industrial methods to produce the same amount of food.
Sorry if my tone was a bit sharp, I get a little irked when people call bullshit on my non-bullshit posts, especially when I wasn't disagreeing with someone. I suppose I sometimes forget that it's the internet, and people show up with irrelevant lies all the time for no apparent reason. A some suspicion can be healthy, and you don't know who I might be, so I'll introduce myself: I'm Siriustar, I aim for respectful and enlightening discourse, and I don't bullshit, on purpose at least.
For sssssome reasssssson you ussssssse a lot of essssss wordssssssss.
Jusssssssssst ssssssssssssssssssssssssssayin.
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Don't worry be happy.
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Siriustar
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Heh, didn't notice that. I'll certainly see about ceasing such an insufferable system of... saying stuff.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,766
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15206248 - 10/10/11 03:34 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Heh, didn't notice that. I'll certainly see about ceasing such an insufferable system of... saying stuff.
Sssssso doesssss you lisssssp like for reallssssss?
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Don't worry be happy.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15207214 - 10/10/11 06:37 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Heh, didn't notice that. I'll certainly see about ceasing such an insufferable system of... saying stuff.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15214854 - 10/12/11 03:19 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Money isn't 'Dark Magic', it's simply condensed energy, as it represents the time (and therefore energy expenditure over time) of people. When money sits and isn't spent, it's stored energy. Stored energy is a waste because of entropy, though, and only creates waste when not spent. Money is going to automatically make it's way to the things that society values. The solution to money problems is to spend it if you have it on things that you value, and to question whether the things you value would be beneficial for most people to own (i.e. basic needs, efficient technology, educational tools, creative tools, non-toxic medicine, etc.). Money isn't intrinsically wrong or bad, the societal perception of money just needs to change to suit a modern society. Fearing not having enough and saving every penny you can stagnates the economy and hinders growth and learning. Congress does not need to be making the decisions for us on where money should go to stimulate the economy, we each should be with a tempered, calm, altruistic mind. Congress can't determine the values of 350 million people, our lifestyles are too unique and varied to make a presumptuous judgment such as that. They think that people aren't responsible enough to make such decisions, but that is highly irrelevant. People that put out negative energy, and use their money unwisely will not receive it back, thus the evolution of the economy will naturally prune people who would spend unwisely from having the resources to do so. (example: numerous celebrities who clearly aren't philanthropists going broke and going to jail for tax evasion, the government being in major debt, amongst numerous other cases)
Also, to relate this to the Conservation of Energy principle in Physics, the more positive energy (wisely spent money) you output, the more you will receive the same type of energy.
edit: Perceiving money as dark magic also creates a self-fulfilling prophecy that money is indeed a 'bad' thing. Avoid this if possible. Money is simply a tool, one that is currently being improperly used by some people. Have, at worst, a neutral position on the concept of money.
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/12/11 03:35 PM)
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15215005 - 10/12/11 03:49 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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So are the people who print money at the federal reserve creating energy from nothing? 
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Pacmanpth
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
So are the people who print money at the federal reserve creating energy from nothing?
Energy cannot be created. Not by humans currently or anything close to our relatively low level of consciousness, at least.
It is perception that gives money power, otherwise it's just cotton sheets.
edit: by the way, that nebula picture is beautiful.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/12/11 04:08 PM)
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Siriustar
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15215257 - 10/12/11 04:33 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Man, no offense, but what are you even talking about? There's new-age stuff here about vague energies, mixed with a libertarian anti-government sentiment, and somehow a relation to physics, which economics has very little to do with. Money isn't karma, otherwise there wouldn't be so many rich assholes out there.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15215480 - 10/12/11 05:15 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Man, no offense, but what are you even talking about? There's new-age stuff here about vague energies, mixed with a libertarian anti-government sentiment, and somehow a relation to physics, which economics has very little to do with. Money isn't karma, otherwise there wouldn't be so many rich assholes out there.
What that I spoke about is vague? This isn't "new-age" woo-woo garbage, simply the philosophical thoughts of a Senior in Physics/Engineering with a minor in Economics. Conservation of Energy applies to everything, because everything is energy, just in different forms. I do not mean to be rude, but I find your signature is rather offensive. No one should listen to anyone unless by choice, especially to someone who admits they are cynical. Furthermore, violence cannot be fought, that is attempting to rid the world of something by using the thing that created it in the first place. The people most capable of defending against violence on the planet have never been involved in a "fight". No one should ever pride themselves in taking a punch, because that means you missed an opportunity to turn someones aggression back on themselves, and show them the error of their ways. Rejection is a judgement. Want to solve revenge, aggression, and retaliation? Accept them as part of the current human condition, and understand where they come from. They are always the result of suffering. Love as the foundation, I agree with.
Edit: Also, how is saying that Congress shouldn't be handling large sums of money because they have proven themselves irresponsible anti-Government. Simply because I'm suggesting a different form of democracy does not mean that I think the government shouldn't exist. Absolutely nothing is that black and white, quit judging things in the manner that society does. Think for yourself, question everything.
Closing with a joke, what's the opposite of progress? Congress
Edit 2: Do you believe that the act of thinking "there are rich assholes out there" does not effect the odds that there are rich assholes out there? Thoughts shape the world. You have more influence over things "external" to yourself than you believe.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/12/11 05:27 PM)
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Bryn Wyvern
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15218092 - 10/13/11 07:06 AM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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I've just read this whole thread from start to finish and really enjoyed it. You guys have claws and fangs!!! Ha ha
At the risk of getting mauled...
What this thread seems to sum up is that the whole, massive global situation has bupkiss solutions in the material world (external to inner experience). It's poo-bah guys. It's gone. And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is. Even if they have some kick-ass alien inspired, retro-designed free energy tech hiding in underground bases, ready to flip us into a super-advanced civilization once they've made their money from the last drop of oil - EVEN if that is the case - the vast majority of people on this planet are about to be wiped out by systemic collapse. By "about to be", my guess is within the next decade, based on the supply shocks already happening with food and the mess in the Mid East over oil.
I'll let that all just hang in the air for a moment, and anyone is welcome to argue, of course.
But assuming the above is the grim reality. What is YOUR response. Systemic responses at this point are just pissing in the wind. I mean, are you going to write to your Congressman? Are you going to set up a "back to the countryside" movement of hippies?? What are you going to do?? Those responses scream of an ego denying the reality of death.
To get anywhere, you have to stare into the jaws of death. I mean really stare at it. Really get it, like: "Shit, this is REALLY happening." Yes, it is. It really fucking is. We are on the largest sinking ship this planet (as far as we know) has EVER seen. This baby is huge, across every continent, from the cow herds of Brazil to the McDonalds beef burgers in Hong Kong, the whole damn thing has been built by an epically insane species, convinced that they are not one single being - absolutely convinced of it. And that central, core misunderstanding of the nature of reality is about to bring the entire sha-bang down around humanity's ears. It's going down.
So. Where does that leave YOU? Not the Democrat party, not the health system, not the Financial Reserve and its paper-digital widgets of mass mind control... YOU? Where does it leave you?
As far as I can tell, it leaves you standing on your own grave, holding a spade, waiting for the nod from whichever fool in Washington either blows the whistle on the Second American Revolution - yeah, the one that could tear the world apart - or pushes the button on all out global war, to try and solve everything through war distraction and wartime economy. I reckon you're staring at your tombstone right now.
So, to bring all this back to mushrooms and spirituality... what is the divine response? For that matter, what is the demonic response? I feel that we are being called to obey our survival instinct. I believe that our innate survival instinct applies just as much to our spiritual development as it does to our physical safety. It is actually an evolutionary IMPERATIVE to ascend beyond dependence on the external world.
All of the above conversations have centred around currency and resource allocation. But doesn't all this prove that we now have to start getting REALLY serious, I mean urgently serious, about internal energy generation, resource creation (from within) and sovereign-divine self sustenance? The polar opposite of "money magic" is sentient, conscious, divine reality magic: unifying the astral plane of pure, imaginative thought to the vibrational and atomic plane of the Universal body.
In my own journey with mushrooms, I am now focusing on directly asking "God" - I won't defend my use of that word here, I've defended it on other posts - exactly how are we to bridge the link between infinite inspiration and physical manifestation.
That is the key, guys. If we crack that nut, the world can go to the Hell it is already in - and we can begin creating the resource independent and free energy civilization that will replace it, from the very astral core of our own personal beings.
It's time to become the X-Men. 
Cat. Meet pigeons.
Bryn.
****
PS - it's 3am my time, so I'm off to bed. I'll be back on tomorrow.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
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And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is.
My response is to try to really enjoy each meal while I still have access to good spices and such. Oh and to lay in the sun up in the mountains above my house as much as possible. Oh and to play with my dogs and have fun. Oh and to enjoy my dreams at night. Oh and to let it all go as much as I can. Oh and to realize I don't know anything about what's going down. And to not have any solid opinion about god or ultimate meaning. Oh and to take XTC at least twice a year. Oh and to stay out of romantic relationships. Oh and Pandora and Netflix.
It's quite interesting to realize that my generation and my parents generation really didn't have to worry about any of this shit for most of their time here.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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thefloodbehind
Mighty Microcosm
Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 797
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15218333 - 10/13/11 08:05 AM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is.
My response is to try to really enjoy each meal while I still have access to good spices and such. Oh and to lay in the sun up in the mountains above my house as much as possible. Oh and to play with my dogs and have fun. Oh and to enjoy my dreams at night. Oh and to let it all go as much as I can. Oh and to realize I don't know anything about what's going down. And to not have any solid opinion about god or ultimate meaning. Oh and to take XTC at least twice a year. Oh and to stay out of romantic relationships. Oh and Pandora and Netflix.
It's quite interesting to realize that my generation and my parents generation really didn't have to worry about any of this shit for most of their time here.
Translation: My response is to accept that nothing matters and thus fill my life with idle pursuits that will never lead to fulfillment but are good ways to waste time before I die alone.
Sketchy ...
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Night is falling. The world’s night is spreading its darkness, by the ‘default of God.’ Not only have the gods and the god fled, but the divine radiance has become extinguished in the world’s history. It has already grown so destitute, it can no longer discern the default of God as a default. Because of this default, there fails to appear for the world the ground that grounds it. The age for which the ground fails to come hangs in the abyss. Assuming that a turn still remains open for this destitute time at all, it can come some day only if the world turns about fundamentally—and that now means, unequivocally. But for this it is necessary that there be those who reach into the abyss. — Martin Heidigger, “What Are Poets For?”
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
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ya esecially cuz u gonna COME BACK
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Icelander
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Quote:
thefloodbehind said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is.
My response is to try to really enjoy each meal while I still have access to good spices and such. Oh and to lay in the sun up in the mountains above my house as much as possible. Oh and to play with my dogs and have fun. Oh and to enjoy my dreams at night. Oh and to let it all go as much as I can. Oh and to realize I don't know anything about what's going down. And to not have any solid opinion about god or ultimate meaning. Oh and to take XTC at least twice a year. Oh and to stay out of romantic relationships. Oh and Pandora and Netflix.
It's quite interesting to realize that my generation and my parents generation really didn't have to worry about any of this shit for most of their time here.
Translation: My response is to accept that nothing matters and thus fill my life with idle pursuits that will never lead to fulfillment but are good ways to waste time before I die alone.
Sketchy ...
Not quite. I'm actually feeling quite fulfilled with my new attitudes, especially when compared to my time spent in religious speculation and time spent in spiritual speculation. My body does not consider my pursuits idle as I'm in some of the best mental and physical shape of my life and I'm pushing 60. I'm actually living some of the animal life that is my birthright. And while I choose to spend much time alone I'm not lonely, especially compared to my past where I was constantly needing people to quell empty feelings and loneliness that I could not admit was due to my feelings towards myself.
I'll take what I got to what you got any day and consider myself one of the few lucky ones.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander] 1
#15218567 - 10/13/11 08:58 AM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is.
My response is to try to really enjoy each meal while I still have access to good spices and such. Oh and to lay in the sun up in the mountains above my house as much as possible. Oh and to play with my dogs and have fun. Oh and to enjoy my dreams at night. Oh and to let it all go as much as I can. Oh and to realize I don't know anything about what's going down. And to not have any solid opinion about god or ultimate meaning. Oh and to take XTC at least twice a year. Oh and to stay out of romantic relationships. Oh and Pandora and Netflix.
With the exception of this one, I see a lot of myself in you. It's all about finding the right person who will eternally encourage your evolution of consciousness because they have realized, like you, that they are in the process of evolving theirs as well. A pervading air of non-judgment and love goes a long way in the discovery of a relationship such as this, and provides an extremely strong support network if society ever brings you down to its level.
One of my favorite buddies:
Quote:
thefloodbehind said:
Translation: My response is to accept that nothing matters and thus fill my life with idle pursuits that will never lead to fulfillment but are good ways to waste time before I die alone.
Sketchy ...
Nothing can be objectively translated. There is an infinite number of ways to interpret any phrase composed of words. Do not assume to know the meaning behind each of their words. Instead, understand from as many ways as possible how they might mean what they write, and why they might be writing it. Also, I do not mean to be rude, but Learn 2 Play Life, my friend. We all die alone. That doesn't mean that you cannot improve your state of consciousness such that the concept of alone is actually a relaxing place to be, and that the concept of dieing is not troublesome. You're going to respawn anyway, why stress about it? Spending at least a few hours a day in play is the best way to ensure that you relax into an elevated state of consciousness that puts you in a position best equipped to solve problems of your life and of the lives of people you love. Being "idle" physically saves energy, and saves the planet. Being "idle" mentally is the thing that really needs to be addressed for most people. Also, the idea of being able to "waste" time is fundamentally flawed.
Quote:
Icelander said:
My body does not consider my pursuits idle as I'm in some of the best mental and physical shape of my life and I'm pushing 60. I'm actually living some of the animal life that is my birthright. And while I choose to spend much time alone I'm not lonely, especially compared to my past where I was constantly needing people to quell empty feelings and loneliness that I could not admit was due to my feelings towards myself.
I'll take what I got to what you got any day and consider myself one of the few lucky ones.
Beautiful . Don't let anyone shake you from your endless pursuit of knowledge and growth, such amazing things result from that mindset. Consider yourself not, though, as one of the few lucky ones, but as living on a planet where every living thing is extremely lucky, though some people do not take the time to understand why.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 09:11 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15218744 - 10/13/11 09:46 AM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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I don't consider everything lucky to be living by a long shot. I just saw a pic of a captive bear that had a hole drilled in it's snout and a piercing in the soft part of the nose where a chain was attached and it was forced to dance on the streets for some monster who calls itself a human being. Fuck that shit.
The rest of your post I pretty much agree with.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15218869 - 10/13/11 10:14 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I don't consider everything lucky to be living by a long shot. I just saw a pic of a captive bear that had a hole drilled in it's snout and a piercing in the soft part of the nose where a chain was attached and it was forced to dance on the streets for some monster who calls itself a human being. Fuck that shit.
That's not remotely a way to treat another living thing, but instead of that, the bear could be getting chased by this if evolution had panned out only slightly differently:
I would choose being an abused pet over food any day of the year.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 10:14 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15218888 - 10/13/11 10:19 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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I'd rather be food and have my fate much more in my own hands.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15218927 - 10/13/11 10:28 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Tell that to domesticated ungulates. They'll moo at you with no perception of the world that you see. No one's fate is in their hands, far too many variables are outside of anyone's control. Perceive what you can change, and make the best use of that ability.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 10:31 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15218937 - 10/13/11 10:30 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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well I'm speaking from a human perspective seeing as I'm a human. I didn't imply otherwise
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15218951 - 10/13/11 10:33 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
well I'm speaking from a human perspective seeing as I'm a human. I didn't imply otherwise
Of course, but aren't there likely other species more intelligent than you, using a higher form of language to try to understand how your problems can be easily solved? In that sense, cows are no different than us.
Also, you can see things from the perspective of things other than as a human. All it takes is a bit of imagination. It's a fairly simple and comforting ability to cultivate.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 10:37 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15218965 - 10/13/11 10:36 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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If I had a choice between being an animal who paid the price of slavery through domination for safety from predators, and being an animal that could survive on it's own but paid the price of having predators, I'd choose the price of predators any day.
Not sure how what you're saying relates to this.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15218969 - 10/13/11 10:39 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
If I had a choice between being an animal who paid the price of slavery through domination for safety from predators, and being an animal that could survive on it's own but paid the price of having predators, I'd choose the price of predators any day.
Not sure how what you're saying relates to this.
There is no need for predators to exist, period. We can change the planet to make sure that that becomes a reality. Imagine if no living thing on the planet ate meat. What, then, would be a predator? Other than humans preying on each other mentally, which would obviously be the next form of predatory behavior to solve. There is an infinite number of ways to analyze perceived "problems" with the world to see an easy solution that benefits all.
Also, nothing survives on it's own. It's all life cycles that require energy from some external source. Whether that be emotional support, plants, the Sun, the existence of the universe. We all need things other than ourselves to survive.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 10:44 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15218977 - 10/13/11 10:40 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Life itself is predatory, eating you up bit by bit until you don't exist any more.
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c0sm0nautt
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Quote:
Bryn Wyvern said:
I've just read this whole thread from start to finish and really enjoyed it. You guys have claws and fangs!!! Ha ha
At the risk of getting mauled...
What this thread seems to sum up is that the whole, massive global situation has bupkiss solutions in the material world (external to inner experience). It's poo-bah guys. It's gone. And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is. Even if they have some kick-ass alien inspired, retro-designed free energy tech hiding in underground bases, ready to flip us into a super-advanced civilization once they've made their money from the last drop of oil - EVEN if that is the case - the vast majority of people on this planet are about to be wiped out by systemic collapse. By "about to be", my guess is within the next decade, based on the supply shocks already happening with food and the mess in the Mid East over oil.
I'll let that all just hang in the air for a moment, and anyone is welcome to argue, of course.
But assuming the above is the grim reality. What is YOUR response. Systemic responses at this point are just pissing in the wind. I mean, are you going to write to your Congressman? Are you going to set up a "back to the countryside" movement of hippies?? What are you going to do?? Those responses scream of an ego denying the reality of death.
To get anywhere, you have to stare into the jaws of death. I mean really stare at it. Really get it, like: "Shit, this is REALLY happening." Yes, it is. It really fucking is. We are on the largest sinking ship this planet (as far as we know) has EVER seen. This baby is huge, across every continent, from the cow herds of Brazil to the McDonalds beef burgers in Hong Kong, the whole damn thing has been built by an epically insane species, convinced that they are not one single being - absolutely convinced of it. And that central, core misunderstanding of the nature of reality is about to bring the entire sha-bang down around humanity's ears. It's going down.
So. Where does that leave YOU? Not the Democrat party, not the health system, not the Financial Reserve and its paper-digital widgets of mass mind control... YOU? Where does it leave you?
As far as I can tell, it leaves you standing on your own grave, holding a spade, waiting for the nod from whichever fool in Washington either blows the whistle on the Second American Revolution - yeah, the one that could tear the world apart - or pushes the button on all out global war, to try and solve everything through war distraction and wartime economy. I reckon you're staring at your tombstone right now.
So, to bring all this back to mushrooms and spirituality... what is the divine response? For that matter, what is the demonic response? I feel that we are being called to obey our survival instinct. I believe that our innate survival instinct applies just as much to our spiritual development as it does to our physical safety. It is actually an evolutionary IMPERATIVE to ascend beyond dependence on the external world.
All of the above conversations have centred around currency and resource allocation. But doesn't all this prove that we now have to start getting REALLY serious, I mean urgently serious, about internal energy generation, resource creation (from within) and sovereign-divine self sustenance? The polar opposite of "money magic" is sentient, conscious, divine reality magic: unifying the astral plane of pure, imaginative thought to the vibrational and atomic plane of the Universal body.
In my own journey with mushrooms, I am now focusing on directly asking "God" - I won't defend my use of that word here, I've defended it on other posts - exactly how are we to bridge the link between infinite inspiration and physical manifestation.
That is the key, guys. If we crack that nut, the world can go to the Hell it is already in - and we can begin creating the resource independent and free energy civilization that will replace it, from the very astral core of our own personal beings.
It's time to become the X-Men.
Cat. Meet pigeons.
Bryn.
****
PS - it's 3am my time, so I'm off to bed. I'll be back on tomorrow.
Well said man. I think you may be onto something. I'm reminded of Eckart Tolle when he had his realization - he did nothing but sit on a park bench for a couple years, masking in the essence of being.
I'm currently reading Be Love Now, a Ram Dass book, which has this great section about modern day Saints. The one thread which runs through all of the stories is their un-reliance on the material.
A part of me cannot believe that we are shifting into a new paradigm where the collective dream gets broken down, symbolized by an actual breakdown of many of the societal structures we hold dear. I'm reminded of the Bashar quote, "Circumstance don't matter, only state of being matters. What is not of your vibrational frequency cannot effect you."
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15218994 - 10/13/11 10:45 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Life itself is predatory
Only when you make it that way. Create more (just please don't create more children, the world is overpopulated as is). If Life was inherently predatory, it wouldn't exist at all. As people run experiments, so does the universe. Life is just another experiment, one that has panned out very well thus far. Predatorism is the resistance to Life, help solve the problem instead of judging it as either good, bad, or necessary.
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 10:51 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219023 - 10/13/11 10:51 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Animals are not predatory either then, unless you make them so. Their actions create a myriad of different things and pointing out only eating/being eaten is nitpicking.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219038 - 10/13/11 10:53 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Animals are not predatory either then, unless you make them so.
Is this not blatantly obvious to everyone? Imagine if everyone on the planet took in a pet bear and fed it as much tofu and rice as it desired until it was fat and happy. That gets rid of one predator on the planet that occasionally causes harm to humans and other animals, time to help the next one. Help every living thing survive. The total summation of what the actions of things less intelligent than us create is like a drop in the ocean compared to the sea of things that humans create. Something being predatory just means it's pissed off and hungry (for what it is hungry for depends on why it's pissed off, food, knowledge, learning, love, etc.). something that's not predatory just means it's figured out a way to survive off simpler forms of life.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 10:58 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219050 - 10/13/11 10:56 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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That's not what I was saying. I'm saying currently they are not predators unless you make them so. They are doing exactly what life does. So if life is not a predator, then neither can they be.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219064 - 10/13/11 11:00 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
So if life is not a predator, then neither can they be.
Precisely, but see that in the light that everything is everchanging. An animal that is a "predator" today has the potential to be your best friend in the future. Just as those of the canine species once were, and are to us today. Focus on the word "can" that you used, everything has infinite potential for change. Humans are the species most capable of creating change, so we have the ability to help change all living things in the planet to a better version of themselves, where they enjoy life more, and cause less harm to other forms of life.
edit: Also, the concept of "what Life does" can be very limited from some perspectives. Life isn't inherently a particular way, it is a creation process with infinite potential for infinite types of forms.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:05 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219081 - 10/13/11 11:05 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Dogs still eat meat, we provide it. We've just taken the killing onto ourselves. Maybe you're right, we are on track to being the only predator by virtue of killing out the rest. Nice work, humans!
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219095 - 10/13/11 11:08 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Dogs still eat meat, we provide it. We've just taken the killing onto ourselves. Maybe you're right, we are on track to being the only predator.
*shrug* I don't feed my dogs meat. No one is forcing anyone to provide their dogs with it. They eat what is put in front of them that tastes good. Creating that demand in your own home makes the killing to create the food by the company creating it a necessity. If there was no demand for that killing, the company killing animals would crumble.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:10 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219106 - 10/13/11 11:10 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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The dog is designed to eat meat. If you don't want to feed it to the dog that's your choice because of the power dynamic.
I don't feel bad about eating meat. I was born with canines for a reason. I also don't feel bad about eating grains, I was born with molars for a reason.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219108 - 10/13/11 11:11 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
The dog is designed to eat meat.
Nothing is designed to be a specific way. Everything just is that way for the time being. Does your body grow better when fed beef, or whey, soy, and casein protein shakes?
Quote:
Kickle said:
I don't feel bad about eating meat. I was born with canines for a reason. I also don't feel bad about eating grains, I was born with molars for a reason.
You were born with a molars because it was an evolutionary creation that occurred millions of years ago, when we were far more ignorant of everything. You don't feel bad about eating meat because of your own ignorance, due to the fact that you have convinced yourself that you aren't intelligent enough to understand all facets of Science and Life, when the real truth is that you are a genius, who is highly capable of understanding all of those things.
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:16 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219120 - 10/13/11 11:14 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Actually, it was designed that way as a means of survival. If alternative means of survival are available those will open up what can emerge. Like I said it's your choice because of the power dynamic. Your choice is completely unnecessary IMO though.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219151 - 10/13/11 11:19 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Your choice is completely unnecessary IMO though.
So that everyone can continue eating animals until the world is rid of them, and then we can upgrade to eating each other? Soylent Green is people.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:20 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219170 - 10/13/11 11:25 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Nope
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219180 - 10/13/11 11:27 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
IMO
"In my opinion" - people trying to excuse the fact that there may be a judgmental statement nearby
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:28 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219190 - 10/13/11 11:29 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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just acknowledging that it's my opinion only. I don't know all the facts.
It's no more judgmental than feeling it is necessary.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle] 1
#15219201 - 10/13/11 11:31 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I don't know all the facts.
Yet you are writing down an opinion instead of going out to understand more. This is the Internet, understanding is a Google search away!
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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thefloodbehind
Mighty Microcosm
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15219211 - 10/13/11 11:34 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
ya esecially cuz u gonna COME BACK
From death you mean?
Quote:
Icelander said:
Not quite. I'm actually feeling quite fulfilled with my new attitudes, especially when compared to my time spent in religious speculation and time spent in spiritual speculation. My body does not consider my pursuits idle as I'm in some of the best mental and physical shape of my life and I'm pushing 60. I'm actually living some of the animal life that is my birthright. And while I choose to spend much time alone I'm not lonely, especially compared to my past where I was constantly needing people to quell empty feelings and loneliness that I could not admit was due to my feelings towards myself.
I'll take what I got to what you got any day and consider myself one of the few lucky ones.
Well, good on you for finding something that works. I suppose everyone does it differently. I didn't appreciate the insult, though. How do you know what I "got" anyhow? 
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Night is falling. The world’s night is spreading its darkness, by the ‘default of God.’ Not only have the gods and the god fled, but the divine radiance has become extinguished in the world’s history. It has already grown so destitute, it can no longer discern the default of God as a default. Because of this default, there fails to appear for the world the ground that grounds it. The age for which the ground fails to come hangs in the abyss. Assuming that a turn still remains open for this destitute time at all, it can come some day only if the world turns about fundamentally—and that now means, unequivocally. But for this it is necessary that there be those who reach into the abyss. — Martin Heidigger, “What Are Poets For?”
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219212 - 10/13/11 11:34 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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I'll never know all the facts about what the future holds and neither will you. That's why both stances are opinions.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219222 - 10/13/11 11:37 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I'll never know all the facts about what the future holds and neither will you. That's why both stances are opinions.
http://www.futuretimeline.net/
The future does not hold anything in particular, only infinite possibility.
You simply reading the things on that website, and projecting positive vibes towards the things you find interesting, neat, exciting alters the possibility that such a future will occur.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:39 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic *DELETED* [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219225 - 10/13/11 11:38 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Post deleted by KickleReason for deletion: .
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219235 - 10/13/11 11:40 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
And...?
If the future is infinite possibility, then now is infinite possibility
Quote:
Kickle said:
both stances are opinions.
Does this read like a statement that supports the idea of infinite possibility? Furthermore, martial arts teaches that maintaining any stance for too long will result in stagnated growth. Be like water, not rock.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:42 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219241 - 10/13/11 11:41 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
both stances are opinions.
Does this read like a statement that supports the idea of infinite possibility?
Yes. Either (and more) is capable of happening. Opinions don't make reality.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219253 - 10/13/11 11:43 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Yes. Either (and more) is capable of happening. Opinions don't make reality.
Is Obama real? But he isn't the president because of opinions, correct?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219264 - 10/13/11 11:46 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Nope. There were a lot of opinions that he would be garbage as a president. Didn't keep his presidency from happening. Also the people with the opinion that Obama would bring the change he promised didn't make that materialize either.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219294 - 10/13/11 11:53 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Also the people with the opinion that Obama would bring the change he promised
This is the opinion that caused people to vote for him. It was up to him and the rest of government to create change after that. Blame them, not the people who voted for him. He broke promises, not the voters. Likely, as usual, due to a lack of integral and broad understanding on the part of all people currently in office.
For the record, I didn't vote, I thought they were both fools and couldn't decide who might do a better job.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:54 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219301 - 10/13/11 11:54 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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I would choose being an abused pet over food any day of the year.
Really? I hope you get your wish. I've worked in rescue and some of the abused dogs I've seen would change your mind fast. Putting them down is a mercy.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219305 - 10/13/11 11:55 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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now you're on to promises? So it takes opinions and keeping promises? Anything else you want to throw in before we continue?
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219316 - 10/13/11 11:58 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
So it takes opinions and keeping promises?
I'm not certain what you are referring to with "it" in this context, will you clarify please?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 11:58 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219329 - 10/13/11 12:00 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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it = determining reality
originally this branch of the dialogue started at:
Opinions don't make reality.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander] 1
#15219338 - 10/13/11 12:02 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I would choose being an abused pet over food any day of the year.
Really? I hope you get your wish. I've worked in rescue and some of the abused dogs I've seen would change your mind fast. Putting them down is a mercy.
Changing a suffering, complex organism into wormfood is never mercy. Mercy is the reason you got into rescue in the first place, I would venture to imagine, to try to help ease the suffering of animals. Anything's suffering can be solved if we understand it well enough and apply appropriate technology.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219346 - 10/13/11 12:04 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
it = determining reality
originally this branch of the dialogue started at:
Opinions don't make reality.
Reality is not deterministic, so nothing has the ability to determine a fixed state of such a system. Quantum physics is the most currently complete proof of that, although still an incomplete model. Simplified, Quantum physics shows that there is no absolute state of subatomic particles, which we are all made of, and that the type and state of what is observing subatomic particles has a tremendous impact on those particles' behavior.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 12:06 PM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219353 - 10/13/11 12:05 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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So you agree opinions don't make reality? Cool, glad we're on the same page
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219376 - 10/13/11 12:09 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Ignorance is bliss dude. Or should I say ignorance is death anxiety.
Life at all costs huh.
Everything is wormfood and dying is part of the process. If you're terrified of that then it seems like a negative.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219379 - 10/13/11 12:09 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
So you agree opinions don't make reality? Cool, glad we're on the same page
You're still resisting seeing what I'm attempting to show you. You assume that opinions don't make reality because reality is predetermined by other things. The concept of non-determinism presents the idea that EVERYTHING that happens in reality has an influence on reality. This includes thoughts, ideas, emotions, as well as macroscale external concepts such as Biology, Chemistry, etc...it all matters, because everything is matter.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 12:12 PM)
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15219384 - 10/13/11 12:11 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Ignorance is bliss dude. Or should I say ignorance is death anxiety.
Life at all costs huh.
Everything is wormfood and dying is part of the process. If you're terrified of that then it seems like a negative.
You're assuming I'm anxious about death based on words I wrote. Words fall far short of conveying experience and belief. I'm not anxious about death, I simply think that enabling as many living things as possible to live a happy and healthy Life is the current purpose of my own Life.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 12:13 PM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219394 - 10/13/11 12:12 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Why would you have to show me that? How pompous.
That is super obvious dude.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219405 - 10/13/11 12:13 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Ignorance is bliss dude. Or should I say ignorance is death anxiety.
Life at all costs huh.
Everything is wormfood and dying is part of the process. If you're terrified of that then it seems like a negative.
You're assuming I'm anxious about death based on words I wrote. Words fall far short of conveying experience and belief.
What am I supposed to base my ideas about you on? What you wrote is part of reality right?
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219414 - 10/13/11 12:15 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Why would you have to show me that? How pompous.
That is super obvious dude.
Because I'm a Physicist?...
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219427 - 10/13/11 12:17 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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I simply think that enabling as many living things as possible to live a happy and healthy Life is the current purpose of my own Life.
And how exactly are you fulfilling this lofty goal?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15219428 - 10/13/11 12:17 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
What am I supposed to base my ideas about you on? What you wrote is part of reality right?
Well, interpret what I'm writing based on everything you've ever read me write. That's what I do for all of the people that I communicate with here, I'm still learning about the more active members of the community, so I don't have perfectly clear imaginations of your personalities quite yet, but they are improving.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219436 - 10/13/11 12:19 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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The Buddha a long time ago was talking about the interdependent nature of things. He sure wasn't a physicist. So what's your point?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219440 - 10/13/11 12:19 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Well, interpret what I'm writing based on everything you've ever read me write
That's exactly what I've done.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander] 1
#15219463 - 10/13/11 12:24 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
And how exactly are you fulfilling this lofty goal?
Interpreting a goal as lofty makes it less achievable. I started first with myself, ridding myself of thoughts of suicide, anxiety, and depression were the major first stepping stones. Improving the condition of my body with daily exercise, adequate hydration, proper diet, and proper vitamins/nutrients came next. After beginning to change myself, I did all I could to help my girlfriend change into the person she would like to be. After that, I began to do all that was in my power to treat my pets with more love and feed them better. Now, I'm moving on to cleaning up my house, and the environment around it to help improve the air quality and sights provided by my local area. After that, who knows? It's fun to think of different ways to help out, though, so it will never get old.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219477 - 10/13/11 12:26 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
The Buddha a long time ago was talking about the interdependent nature of things. He sure wasn't a physicist. So what's your point?
Did Physics exist when he did? Science exists to show us how a perspective of understanding can change the way we interact with the world. Science is not a body of knowledge. It's simply society catching up to what the Buddha knew to be true thousands of years ago.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/13/11 12:27 PM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219492 - 10/13/11 12:29 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Lots of people knew it then and now. It doesn't take anything in particular to see it.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219501 - 10/13/11 12:31 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
It doesn't take anything in particular to see it.
Precisely! You're on to something there, keep thinking about that statement.
--------------------
"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219513 - 10/13/11 12:34 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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you really think you've got it all figured out, don't you?
Well I'm gonna support that. Congratulations my friend. Enjoy yourself.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219923 - 10/13/11 01:51 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
you really think you've got it all figured out, don't you?
Actually, I simply told you that you have it all figured out.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15219947 - 10/13/11 01:54 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Thanks. I accept this award on behalf of all the stillborn babies.
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15219998 - 10/13/11 02:02 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Thanks. I accept this award on behalf of all the stillborn babies.
It may be messed up to laugh at that, but that didn't stop me, lol.
--------------------
"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15220146 - 10/13/11 02:28 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Lots of people knew it then and now. It doesn't take anything in particular to see it.
A comment on this. Lots of people do see it now, but more of those people need to speak up with a calm, relaxed, tempered resolve to drown out the voices of negativity that are so pervasive in our society. The idea of "everyone is a Buddha" is extremely true when interpreted in some manners. Every moment has something to teach you, every negative person, every red light you get, every mishandled food order, every broken relationship. They aren't experiences that teach directly, but that teach by giving you an opportunity to use your imagination to regard those moments as providing a positive experience for you. How you choose to use it as an opportunity, as you said, doesn't need to be anything in particular, it can be whatever solution you imagine into existence.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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oojijimoo
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15220495 - 10/13/11 03:20 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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ya plus also everyone has buddha nature
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Icelander
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15220527 - 10/13/11 03:25 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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That's because it's part of human nature.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15220839 - 10/13/11 04:21 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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--------------------
"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15220987 - 10/13/11 04:43 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
That's because it's part of human nature.
it is human nature.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15221053 - 10/13/11 04:54 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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It's part of it as is violence, fear, greed, lust and many other things.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15221059 - 10/13/11 04:55 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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those things all come afterwards. they are all perceived by your buddha nature.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15221081 - 10/13/11 04:58 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It's part of it as is violence, fear, greed, lust and many other things.
True, but once we transcend to a higher state, such negative ideas become trivial and unnecessary. They will cease to be a part of human nature once there is no more human suffering present on the planet.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15221374 - 10/13/11 05:52 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
those things all come afterwards. they are all perceived by your buddha nature.
no
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15221377 - 10/13/11 05:53 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
It's part of it as is violence, fear, greed, lust and many other things.
True, but once we transcend to a higher state, such negative ideas become trivial and unnecessary. They will cease to be a part of human nature once there is no more human suffering present on the planet.
not true at all imo
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15221488 - 10/13/11 06:11 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
not true at all imo
Perhaps.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15221605 - 10/13/11 06:39 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
guruu said:
those things all come afterwards. they are all perceived by your buddha nature.
no
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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I have just as much right to posit an opinion as fact.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15222156 - 10/13/11 08:05 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
guruu said:
those things all come afterwards. they are all perceived by your buddha nature.
no
hmmm YES
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15222615 - 10/13/11 09:30 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I have just as much right to posit an opinion as fact.
I may disagree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to write it.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
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Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15223256 - 10/14/11 12:26 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Given:
Money = Dark Magic
a)
Magic = Energy
Dark Magic = Dark Energy
Dark Energy = Quintessence
Money = Quintessence
b)
Money = Wave Runner
Wave Runner = Happiness
Happiness = Love
Love = Quintessence
Proof that we are all equal?
Yay, Mathmagic!
I solved the problem, is the thread over? I hope not, this is epic.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 12:29 AM)
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Well I just received the book in the mail and began with the introduction last night. Looks like there's some interesting essays contained within, like "Program Your Money," "Change Your Time Zone, Change Your Mind," "Yoga & Money," "One Thousand Words About Where Free Music Is Taking Us," and "A Farewell To Advertising," the ones I marked for reading first.
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15223656 - 10/14/11 04:24 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
...everything is matter.
False.
Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Science is not a body of knowledge.
Science
Quote:
Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Viveka
Architecturer
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 3,253
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
It only takes simple common sense to know that a system requiring an ever increasing need of resources can never survive in a world of limited resources.
How is it a world of limited resources? This is hugely presumptive. Scarcity is only relative to the current conditions of production (which are different for every process). Doesn't a shift in technology or circumstance potentially change the resource scarcity picture?
Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Work is necessary to keep wealth unequally distributed
Can you describe how an alternate "equally distributed wealth" scheme would function?
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Throw out your gold teeth and see how they roll
The answer they reveal - life is unreal
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Well I just received the book in the mail and began with the introduction last night. Looks like there's some interesting essays contained within, like "Program Your Money," "Change Your Time Zone, Change Your Mind," "Yoga & Money," "One Thousand Words About Where Free Music Is Taking Us," and "A Farewell To Advertising," the ones I marked for reading first.
Cool stuff, let us know if it's any good! Right now I am reading Gaia's Garden - A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Viveka]
#15223971 - 10/14/11 07:17 AM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Hold that thought, Viveka. I'll get back to you on that after I get home from work. 
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Poid]
#15225084 - 10/14/11 12:36 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
...everything is matter.
False.
Am I saying that all that can be imagined and conceived is matter, or that the word everything is simply an archaic term for matter? Is it the definition of a word that I am trying to illuminate and the importance of how words are used, or the statement of a truth about a concept?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
Hold that thought, Viveka. I'll get back to you on that after I get home from work.
Why work, when you can play? Do you come up with your best ideas for solving your own problems, and the problems of the people you love while at work, or at play?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 12:37 PM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15225106 - 10/14/11 12:41 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
...everything is matter.
False.
Am I saying that all that can be imagined and conceived is matter, or that the word everything is simply an archaic term for matter?
I don't know, but I assumed you meant "every existent phenomenon is matter".
Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Is it the definition of a word that I am trying to illuminate and the importance of how words are used, or the statement of a truth about a concept?
I am going to guess you are doing the latter.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Quote:
Can you describe how an alternate "equally distributed wealth" scheme would function?
Let's take the example of 1995, as recession rocked Japan, where unemployment rose and currency became scarce. People who needed to take care of their elderly relatives, who often lived in distant areas, suddenly found it difficult to do so under these circumstances. The Sawayaka Welfare Foundation developed a complementary currency by which a young person could earn credits for taking care of an elderly person in his local area, and then spend them on the care of their own relatives in distant towns. The alternative currency was accepted at 372 health centers throughout Japan, and all administered by a simple piece of software.
What this example reveals is a resource allocation system that equally distributes wealth, as every person in need of this particular resource suddenly has access to it. And there are many examples of this sort of scheme. Close to a thousand alternative currencies are in use in Japan right now.
I visualized the current standardized hierarchical model of money the world commonly uses today and set it next to the framework of what you could call a decentralized resource allocation system.
What may seem so complex at first in contrast to the pyramid scheme on the left is really quite simple in action, as the example of elderly care illustrates. You create value and are free to equally distribute that value where you need it. In a situation of Japan, this system worked when the standardized model failed.
I feel the beauty of it all is that alternative complementary currencies are springing up everywhere, and the potential they hold to transform the way we do business holds much promise.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Poid]
#15225177 - 10/14/11 12:57 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
I don't know, but I assumed you meant "every existent phenomenon is matter".
I am going to guess you are doing the latter.
Could the realization that each individual word could be interpreted in an infinite number of ways make the need for assumptions and guessing unnecessary?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
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Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
This is beautiful, I love it.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15225209 - 10/14/11 01:05 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Poid said:
I don't know, but I assumed you meant "every existent phenomenon is matter".
I am going to guess you are doing the latter.
Could the realization that each individual word could be interpreted in an infinite number of ways...
I don't think that each individual word can be correctly interpreted in an infinite number of ways.
Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
...make the need for assumptions and guessing unnecessary?
I would suppose so.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Poid]
#15225214 - 10/14/11 01:06 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
I don't know, but I assumed you meant "every existent phenomenon is matter".
Also, this statement is very insightful for me, as it's quite amazing to ponder the infinite possibility of the range of "existent phenomenon". Imagine how interesting some of the stranger concepts we are aware of can be. Dark matter/energy, the Quantum Enigma, Uncertainty Principle, Love, "Self", etc. Now imagine some of the stranger concepts that are still very much unknown to us. What interesting possibilities do those ideas hold for the future?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 01:06 PM)
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Poid]
#15225226 - 10/14/11 01:08 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Could the realization that each individual word could be interpreted in an infinite number of ways...
I don't think that each individual word can be correctly interpreted in an infinite number of ways.
Is there a "correct" interpretation of any idea? Does the word "correct" imply a dualistic universe that hasn't been perceived by Science since the days of Newton?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15225284 - 10/14/11 01:28 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Is there a "correct" interpretation of any idea?
IMO, yes.
Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Does the word "correct" imply a dualistic universe that hasn't been perceived by Science since the days of Newton?
I'm not quite sure why it would...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Poid]
#15225334 - 10/14/11 01:42 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Does the word "correct" imply a dualistic universe that hasn't been perceived by Science since the days of Newton?
I'm not quite sure why it would...
Classical Physics - Dualistic - Correct/Incorrect, created as a result of a society that thought judging things made sense.
Relativity - Everyone's individual perspective is valid, given their position in space and time. Laws of Physics are valid in all reference frames, despite those laws appearing to function strangely when viewed by an outside observer.
Quantum Physics - Everyone's individual perspective is infinitely subjective, and integral to the creation of everyone elses' perspectives.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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occollegeboi
MushroomSpaceGod
Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 1,191
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth] 1
#15226512 - 10/14/11 05:56 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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I'm not going to read the entire thread and I might be repeating what someone else has stated already but:
Money is a very unsustainable way of living. Considering the population of the world is so high that not everyone is able to have employment, and the fact that technology keeps increasing at an exponential rate every year, why the hell does anyone need money? There are MORE than enough resources (food, water, and shelter) to go around the world 3-fold.
I don't think that we should all be lazy, but I do think that the means of production can continue without this stupid piece of paper called money. I mean, why the fuck does one job pay minimum wage but another pays 6 figures? Everyone works hard doing whatever it is they are doing, and I see everyone as equal, so if anything, people should get paid the SAME amount of money from industry to industry. I have more on my mind but can't think of it all at this moment.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
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Quote:
occollegeboi said:
Everyone works hard
Why?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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occollegeboi
MushroomSpaceGod
Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 1,191
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Seanfu]
#15226590 - 10/14/11 06:11 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Why would we need to help if everyone already has enough?
You need help to have enough, everyone helping is everyone having enough.
If people stopped trying to dominate eachother we could easily allocate our resources to be way more conservative. We could have machiness doing almost all our physical labor at this point in our technology.
This is what I was getting at in my last post. Why don't we all just have machines producing the means of production at this point in time? What the hell is a job? What the hell is money? Money has nothing to do with survival. If you're living on a trust fund, money has no meaning to you. To that person, their survival is on getting enough food and water, and that's how it should be.
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occollegeboi
MushroomSpaceGod
Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 1,191
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15226597 - 10/14/11 06:13 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
occollegeboi said:
Everyone works hard
Why?
For egoic gain. They want more money for themselves. They don't work for the good of the WHOLE society. If you take money away, people will work to help society as a whole rather than just for themselves so they can buy more shit.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
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Quote:
occollegeboi said:
Why?
For egoic gain. They want more money for themselves. They don't work for the good of the WHOLE society. If you take money away, people will work to help society as a whole rather than just for themselves so they can buy more shit.
This is why non-monetary systems that involve trade, giving, sharing, etc. function in a much more socially beneficial matter. When you have to do some of those things in order to satisfy your needs, you must communicate more with people and find out what they value, rather than just handing someone cotton sheets.
We, as Shroomerites, do not need to tear the system down. Instead, just find ways around using money whenever you are able. Use Craigslist more for trade, than sale. Give away things you no longer need, but would be highly valued by someone lacking basic needs. Live by example, rather than judging the activities of people that are blinded by society, although some people do indeed "deserve" it, if anyone really "deserves" anything. I do not mean this to sound preachy, as it is as much a reminder to myself to change my ways, as it is to you, or to anyone that reads this.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 06:23 PM)
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occollegeboi
MushroomSpaceGod
Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 1,191
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15226679 - 10/14/11 06:34 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I'd say it's a very big move from where we are and unlikely to succeed for the majority by volition as a result. Habits don't just disappear, including mental habits. People are attached to their things as can be seen if someone tries to steal something as simple as an ipod. To expect things that aren't even luxury items to be given up freely is asking a lot out of people IMO. To remake the structure of a society I suspect the old will have to crash and burn with people clinging to it the whole way down. I think it's already happening really. The government which is like the hydra head of a society will be the last thing to die off.
The reason people have attachments to luxory items is because they had to PAY for them. If you take money away, nothing is worth anything except in a truly intrinsic way. If everyone could have an iPod (and why the fuck not, apple produces WAY MORE ipods than what actually gets sold) or a nice gucci bag or a mercedes, it would just be an ipod, bag, and a car. Money would mean nothing anymore if everyone could have what they wanted. In this day and age, everyone should be able to have what they want.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Why does Apple produce more iPods than are ever sold? Is it because we have a society that is currently wasteful? How does once combat wastefulness on the local level?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Quote:
occollegeboi said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
I'd say it's a very big move from where we are and unlikely to succeed for the majority by volition as a result. Habits don't just disappear, including mental habits. People are attached to their things as can be seen if someone tries to steal something as simple as an ipod. To expect things that aren't even luxury items to be given up freely is asking a lot out of people IMO. To remake the structure of a society I suspect the old will have to crash and burn with people clinging to it the whole way down. I think it's already happening really. The government which is like the hydra head of a society will be the last thing to die off.
The reason people have attachments to luxory items is because they had to PAY for them. If you take money away, nothing is worth anything except in a truly intrinsic way. If everyone could have an iPod (and why the fuck not, apple produces WAY MORE ipods than what actually gets sold) or a nice gucci bag or a mercedes, it would just be an ipod, bag, and a car. Money would mean nothing anymore if everyone could have what they wanted. In this day and age, everyone should be able to have what they want.
Are you proposing that people shouldn't have to exert effort in order to get things? Really? Are we living on the same planet?
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227506 - 10/14/11 09:08 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Why does Apple produce more iPods than are ever sold?
Because it can't look into the future and know exactly how many it is going to sell.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15227599 - 10/14/11 09:26 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Are you proposing that people shouldn't have to exert effort in order to get things? Really? Are we living on the same planet?
Keep an open-minded finger to the pulse of technology, realize the age that we live in. Creativity will soon trump effort, every time. Mental states are a highly underrated tool, one that technology will help us explore.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227616 - 10/14/11 09:30 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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what age is that? Seems very similar to all the rest of human history to me and no matter what we come up with I really doubt it will make us content as a species.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15227636 - 10/14/11 09:34 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
what age is that? Seems very similar to all the rest of human history to me and no matter what we come up with I really doubt it will make us content as a species.
It's not so much a matter of what we come up with, it's a matter of what something vastly more intelligent than us will come up with. What are you typing this on right now?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 09:36 PM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227700 - 10/14/11 09:49 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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A laptop. What are you typing this on right now?
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15227717 - 10/14/11 09:56 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
A laptop. What are you typing this on right now?
How much computational power will a laptop have in 20 years? What might the internet be like in 20 years? Will websites be 3(or more)-dimensional places we travel to that can induce states of consciousness? The exponential function is not to be underestimated. Not satisfied with the options that such a place would offer? That's fine, you can create a whole new world simply by thinking about it.
Most fun way I can imagine it is, imagine being able to enter all of the realms of any fiction book, computer game, art piece, dream, etc. that you can think of. Now imagine your state of consciousness is the best trip you ever experienced. Who could be discontent?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 09:59 PM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227727 - 10/14/11 09:59 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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I'm going on history and how many many many generations have dreamt in the same way you are. Imagining the future of their dreams where they don't have to work or do anything they don't want to and everything they desire is right at their fingertips. All it has done is make a mess of things IMO.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15227738 - 10/14/11 10:01 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I'm going on history and how many many many generations have dreamt in the same way you are. Imagining the future of their dreams where they don't have to work or do anything they don't want to and everything they desire is right at their fingertips. All it has done is make a mess of things IMO.
How much of your life have you spent interacting with computers? I was a child when we got a 66Mhz computer, and have spent the majority of every single day since learning as much as possible about technology. Are you sure you are in the best position to be making a judgment call like that? History is an illusion for sad people that are stuck in the past. I don't mean sad as pathetic, I mean sad as suffering. Dissatisfaction with how amazing now is is likely the primary reason people look to the past for answers. People can be living in reality, but be completely blind to how amazing simply being alive is. Do you think me doing only things that fulfill me means society receives no benefit? I'm sorry if you are so cynical that you think everyone is a self-serving douchebag, but that's not how I function. Without people around me being happy, my own happiness is rather pointless.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 10:07 PM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227753 - 10/14/11 10:04 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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I was raised around all forms of technology (my father was in computer science before the PC was around) and currently work by selling people items that will be outdated in a matter of months. I watch it all fly by in a blink. I also was trained in the mental health field and got to see, hear and feel how messed up our population is. I think I'm in a pretty good position to assess.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
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Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15227764 - 10/14/11 10:09 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I was raised around all forms of technology (my father was in computer science before the PC was around) and currently work by selling people items that will be outdated in a matter of months. I watch it all fly by in a blink.
Then you should understand that we are getting to the point where both hardware and software won't ever be "outdated", but rather self-evolving lifeforms.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227774 - 10/14/11 10:11 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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There's a lot of things on the horizon. I just don't think any of them are the answer to the problem of suffering which is what people seem to dream about.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15227788 - 10/14/11 10:15 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
There's a lot of things on the horizon. I just don't think any of them are the answer to the problem of suffering which is what people seem to dream about.
Meeting the basic needs of every person on the planet and cleaning up the planet from pollutants will be very trivial problems to solve for advanced AI. The changes in state of consciousness in the average person after just those two things will be tremendous, especially when information is so easily accessible.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227805 - 10/14/11 10:20 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Meeting the basic needs of every person on the planet and cleaning up the planet from pollutants will be very trivial problems to solve for advanced AI.
And what happens if those advanced AI somehow become corrupted and initiate a violent rampage against humans?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15227817 - 10/14/11 10:24 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
There's a lot of things on the horizon. I just don't think any of them are the answer to the problem of suffering which is what people seem to dream about.
Meeting the basic needs of every person on the planet and cleaning up the planet from pollutants will be very trivial problems to solve for advanced AI. The changes in state of consciousness in the average person after just those two things will be tremendous, especially when information is so easily accessible.
You seem very sure of your dream
Other people have been just as sure of theirs and very wrong.
Dream on brother.
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Kickle]
#15227889 - 10/14/11 10:50 PM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
You seem very sure of your dream
Other people have been just as sure of theirs and very wrong.
Dream on brother.
Science will save us. All of the answers are simpler than we think, and right in front of our faces, but we are still blind to them. Imagine a silly, simple, non-judgmental AI pointing out all of the back-assward things we do that can be instantly changed and solve a lot of issues.
This isn't my dream, this is reality. Everyone's reality. Check out science news websites, what's in development, what's being researched, the number of major breakthroughs occurring every day. How frightening was cancer 50 years ago? In 5 years it will be a bad joke that people used to die from it. We're on the verge of being able to cure para/quadriplegics. Artificial eyes to cure blindness in development, slated for the end of the decade, if I remember correctly. Computer-brain interfaces to solve numerous debilitating diseases. We have discovered the brain frequency that is optimal for learning, and know how we can induce it. Manmade diamonds that are better than "real" diamonds, and without the dead Africans (very big news for future processors). This is a tiny fraction of the headlines in the last month alone. Don't believe mainstream media. While they are busy blabbing their mouths about how the world sucks, Scientists are keeping their mouths shut and happily solving all of your problems because of how easy and fun it is with modern technology. Be careful with self-fulfilling prophecies, too, putting thought towards a negative outcome helps make it so.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/14/11 11:01 PM)
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 5,462
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15228192 - 10/15/11 01:46 AM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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And scientists will re-discover the cures for cancer over and over again. They won't see the light of day.
Well now, if people aren't dying of cancer, then they are living. That doesn't fit in with UN Agenda 21.
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 5,462
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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oh, because people always tend to ask, you can just google "depopulation agenda" but here's one of many links over it.
http://www.thenewalexandrialibrary.com/depopulation.html
This means they want to depopulate you and I. Why do you think the military industrial complex has such a hard on for autonomous killing machines? A solider that never questions orders, never complains, never hesitates? The perfect tool for nerve gassing people.
People involved in this need to seriously ask themselves "Why am I doing this?"
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crkhd
☾☼☽
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,254
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 16 minutes, 32 seconds
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Great diagram, AlteredOne.
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SHABOOM
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
People involved in this everything need to seriously ask themselves "Why am I doing this?"
Very much agree. That really has been the most important question for me to ask myself on a regular basis every single day. Why am I driving out to eat every day? Even with a 40mpg car, why would I want to contribute further to air pollution and oil demand when I could just shop once every week or two and save time and resources? Why am I overeating? If I reduce my demand for food, I reduce the worlds demand for oil for food shipment, and the average price of food. Furthermore, as I lose weight, my demand for food drops further as I expend less energy on life functions. Why am I now not overeating, but eating food that isn't optimally healthy? If I switch to healthier, more sustainable forms of food (protein powders, salmon, nuts, fruit, veggies), my body fat% goes down, and growth is spurred to companies that create healthy choices. Why am I driving to work, and helping create demand for services and products that I view as unsustainable and unhealthy? If I create a job from home, my demand for oil drops further, I free up a slot in the job market for someone that is unemployed, get to set my own schedule, and create my own ideas. I do this as much as possible to constantly reevaluate my lifestyle based on new information, to attempt to create my own system that instead of leeching off of the world's resources, adds to them. It's a constantly evolving process, and requires constant maintainence, but there are ways to look at that in a positive light, and to maintain that disposition, I use gaming, meditation, learning, and a variety of other methods.
I've always had this sort of magnifying glass perspective analyzing my own lifestyle, but up until my experiences in higher states of consciousness, much of that perspective was self-deprecating, leading to numerous mental issues that were rather debilitating. Migraines, depression, stress, thoughts of suicide...self-judgment is tremendously damaging.
--------------------
"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/15/11 07:34 AM)
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Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15230058 - 10/15/11 02:58 PM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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This thread got laaaaaame.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15230415 - 10/15/11 04:26 PM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
People involved in this everything need to seriously ask themselves "Why am I doing this?"
Very much agree. That really has been the most important question for me to ask myself on a regular basis every single day. Why am I driving out to eat every day? Even with a 40mpg car, why would I want to contribute further to air pollution and oil demand when I could just shop once every week or two and save time and resources? Why am I overeating? If I reduce my demand for food, I reduce the worlds demand for oil for food shipment, and the average price of food. Furthermore, as I lose weight, my demand for food drops further as I expend less energy on life functions. Why am I now not overeating, but eating food that isn't optimally healthy? If I switch to healthier, more sustainable forms of food (protein powders, salmon, nuts, fruit, veggies), my body fat% goes down, and growth is spurred to companies that create healthy choices. Why am I driving to work, and helping create demand for services and products that I view as unsustainable and unhealthy? If I create a job from home, my demand for oil drops further, I free up a slot in the job market for someone that is unemployed, get to set my own schedule, and create my own ideas. I do this as much as possible to constantly reevaluate my lifestyle based on new information, to attempt to create my own system that instead of leeching off of the world's resources, adds to them. It's a constantly evolving process, and requires constant maintainence, but there are ways to look at that in a positive light, and to maintain that disposition, I use gaming, meditation, learning, and a variety of other methods.
I've always had this sort of magnifying glass perspective analyzing my own lifestyle, but up until my experiences in higher states of consciousness, much of that perspective was self-deprecating, leading to numerous mental issues that were rather debilitating. Migraines, depression, stress, thoughts of suicide...self-judgment is tremendously damaging.
Great post, great attitude.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15230899 - 10/15/11 06:31 PM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Great post, great attitude.
Much appreciated.
I will also add that all of those lifestyle changes evolve our lives into happy tripland.  Serotonin is Love
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/15/11 06:32 PM)
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 5,462
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15232387 - 10/16/11 01:52 AM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pacmanpth said:
Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
People involved in this everything need to seriously ask themselves "Why am I doing this?"
Very much agree. That really has been the most important question for me to ask myself on a regular basis every single day. Why am I driving out to eat every day? Even with a 40mpg car, why would I want to contribute further to air pollution and oil demand when I could just shop once every week or two and save time and resources? Why am I overeating? If I reduce my demand for food, I reduce the worlds demand for oil for food shipment, and the average price of food. Furthermore, as I lose weight, my demand for food drops further as I expend less energy on life functions. Why am I now not overeating, but eating food that isn't optimally healthy? If I switch to healthier, more sustainable forms of food (protein powders, salmon, nuts, fruit, veggies), my body fat% goes down, and growth is spurred to companies that create healthy choices. Why am I driving to work, and helping create demand for services and products that I view as unsustainable and unhealthy? If I create a job from home, my demand for oil drops further, I free up a slot in the job market for someone that is unemployed, get to set my own schedule, and create my own ideas. I do this as much as possible to constantly reevaluate my lifestyle based on new information, to attempt to create my own system that instead of leeching off of the world's resources, adds to them. It's a constantly evolving process, and requires constant maintainence, but there are ways to look at that in a positive light, and to maintain that disposition, I use gaming, meditation, learning, and a variety of other methods.
I've always had this sort of magnifying glass perspective analyzing my own lifestyle, but up until my experiences in higher states of consciousness, much of that perspective was self-deprecating, leading to numerous mental issues that were rather debilitating. Migraines, depression, stress, thoughts of suicide...self-judgment is tremendously damaging.
That's got nothing to do with what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. It's not nice.
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Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
That's got nothing to do with what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. It's not nice.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
That's got nothing to do with what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. It's not nice.
I agreed with you and asked a bunch of questions, and went on to talk about self-analysis. I put words in your mind, not your mouth.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15232626 - 10/16/11 05:29 AM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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I believe because you purposely misquoted him.
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said:
I believe because you purposely misquoted him.
Who are you to assume purpose?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15232871 - 10/16/11 08:15 AM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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He's AlteredAgain.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15232922 - 10/16/11 08:33 AM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
He's AlteredAgain.
Or is he AlteredAlways?
Am I AlteredAgain?
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/16/11 08:34 AM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15232957 - 10/16/11 08:45 AM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Poid]
#15233486 - 10/16/11 11:21 AM (7 months, 9 days ago) |
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--------------------
"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15234035 - 10/16/11 01:43 PM (7 months, 9 days ago) |
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