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 Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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 Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: domite]
#15203626 - 10/10/11 12:45 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Um, modern farming technologies? Machines that essentially till the land for us, genetically modified foods that have extremely high yield and fight off pests without the need for actual pesticides, distribution systems that let the majority of us (80%, I believe) live in cities as opposed to rural areas and still eat. Do I need to cite all my sources? Perhaps I exaggerated when I said that we were struggling to feed ourselves, but over the past several centuries we've gone from an agriculture-based system to an industrial and now service-based economy.
Those numbers were pulled from memory-- I took several econ history classes-- but they were about right according to the USDA: http://www.csrees.usda.gov/qlinks/extension.html
"Fewer than 2 percent of Americans farm for a living today, and only 17 percent of Americans now live in rural areas."
You happy?
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203631 - 10/10/11 12:49 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Why exactly did you think what I said was "very wrong?" Do you have different sources with conflicting info? Or did it just sound wrong to you?
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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domite
Puppet
Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 2,965
Loc: Who's askin'?
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15203728 - 10/10/11 01:40 AM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Okay, yeah, I overreacted. I thought you were saying that without that technology we wouldn't be able to feed the current world population with the resources we have, unless we used our current system. Since the OP referenced an article talking about organizing the economy and resources in another way, I thought that that is what you were disagreeing with.
Also in agricultural societies life certainly was harder, but having enough food wasn't usually an issue. That was one point of contention.
I just googled it and saw that the US only imports 11% of it's food, I thought it was more.
In other less technologically advanced countries I'm sure there are more farmers, but i guess that was your point; with very few farmers you need lots of industrial methods to produce the same amount of food.
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Save your money and you can one day.
Are you sure my hard earned money will be worth anything in 25 years?
As long as there is culture something will be of value. Save that.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: domite]
#15205754 - 10/10/11 01:49 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
domite said:
Okay, yeah, I overreacted. I thought you were saying that without that technology we wouldn't be able to feed the current world population with the resources we have, unless we used our current system. Since the OP referenced an article talking about organizing the economy and resources in another way, I thought that that is what you were disagreeing with.
Also in agricultural societies life certainly was harder, but having enough food wasn't usually an issue. That was one point of contention.
I just googled it and saw that the US only imports 11% of it's food, I thought it was more.
In other less technologically advanced countries I'm sure there are more farmers, but i guess that was your point; with very few farmers you need lots of industrial methods to produce the same amount of food.
Sorry if my tone was a bit sharp, I get a little irked when people call bullshit on my non-bullshit posts, especially when I wasn't disagreeing with someone. I suppose I sometimes forget that it's the internet, and people show up with irrelevant lies all the time for no apparent reason. A some suspicion can be healthy, and you don't know who I might be, so I'll introduce myself: I'm Siriustar, I aim for respectful and enlightening discourse, and I don't bullshit, on purpose at least. 
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15205854 - 10/10/11 02:07 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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We'll see about that. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,766
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15206144 - 10/10/11 03:13 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Quote:
domite said:
Okay, yeah, I overreacted. I thought you were saying that without that technology we wouldn't be able to feed the current world population with the resources we have, unless we used our current system. Since the OP referenced an article talking about organizing the economy and resources in another way, I thought that that is what you were disagreeing with.
Also in agricultural societies life certainly was harder, but having enough food wasn't usually an issue. That was one point of contention.
I just googled it and saw that the US only imports 11% of it's food, I thought it was more.
In other less technologically advanced countries I'm sure there are more farmers, but i guess that was your point; with very few farmers you need lots of industrial methods to produce the same amount of food.
Sorry if my tone was a bit sharp, I get a little irked when people call bullshit on my non-bullshit posts, especially when I wasn't disagreeing with someone. I suppose I sometimes forget that it's the internet, and people show up with irrelevant lies all the time for no apparent reason. A some suspicion can be healthy, and you don't know who I might be, so I'll introduce myself: I'm Siriustar, I aim for respectful and enlightening discourse, and I don't bullshit, on purpose at least.
For sssssome reasssssson you ussssssse a lot of essssss wordssssssss.
Jusssssssssst ssssssssssssssssssssssssssayin.
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Don't worry be happy.
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Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Heh, didn't notice that. I'll certainly see about ceasing such an insufferable system of... saying stuff.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,766
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15206248 - 10/10/11 03:34 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Heh, didn't notice that. I'll certainly see about ceasing such an insufferable system of... saying stuff.
Sssssso doesssss you lisssssp like for reallssssss?
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Don't worry be happy.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15207214 - 10/10/11 06:37 PM (7 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Heh, didn't notice that. I'll certainly see about ceasing such an insufferable system of... saying stuff.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: oojijimoo]
#15214854 - 10/12/11 03:19 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Money isn't 'Dark Magic', it's simply condensed energy, as it represents the time (and therefore energy expenditure over time) of people. When money sits and isn't spent, it's stored energy. Stored energy is a waste because of entropy, though, and only creates waste when not spent. Money is going to automatically make it's way to the things that society values. The solution to money problems is to spend it if you have it on things that you value, and to question whether the things you value would be beneficial for most people to own (i.e. basic needs, efficient technology, educational tools, creative tools, non-toxic medicine, etc.). Money isn't intrinsically wrong or bad, the societal perception of money just needs to change to suit a modern society. Fearing not having enough and saving every penny you can stagnates the economy and hinders growth and learning. Congress does not need to be making the decisions for us on where money should go to stimulate the economy, we each should be with a tempered, calm, altruistic mind. Congress can't determine the values of 350 million people, our lifestyles are too unique and varied to make a presumptuous judgment such as that. They think that people aren't responsible enough to make such decisions, but that is highly irrelevant. People that put out negative energy, and use their money unwisely will not receive it back, thus the evolution of the economy will naturally prune people who would spend unwisely from having the resources to do so. (example: numerous celebrities who clearly aren't philanthropists going broke and going to jail for tax evasion, the government being in major debt, amongst numerous other cases)
Also, to relate this to the Conservation of Energy principle in Physics, the more positive energy (wisely spent money) you output, the more you will receive the same type of energy.
edit: Perceiving money as dark magic also creates a self-fulfilling prophecy that money is indeed a 'bad' thing. Avoid this if possible. Money is simply a tool, one that is currently being improperly used by some people. Have, at worst, a neutral position on the concept of money.
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/12/11 03:35 PM)
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15215005 - 10/12/11 03:49 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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So are the people who print money at the federal reserve creating energy from nothing? 
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
  
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
So are the people who print money at the federal reserve creating energy from nothing?
Energy cannot be created. Not by humans currently or anything close to our relatively low level of consciousness, at least.
It is perception that gives money power, otherwise it's just cotton sheets.
edit: by the way, that nebula picture is beautiful.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God  The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/12/11 04:08 PM)
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Siriustar
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 75
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15215257 - 10/12/11 04:33 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Man, no offense, but what are you even talking about? There's new-age stuff here about vague energies, mixed with a libertarian anti-government sentiment, and somehow a relation to physics, which economics has very little to do with. Money isn't karma, otherwise there wouldn't be so many rich assholes out there.
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"Disrespect the octane, yo' plane'll crash."
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Pacmanpth
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 583
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Siriustar]
#15215480 - 10/12/11 05:15 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Siriustar said:
Man, no offense, but what are you even talking about? There's new-age stuff here about vague energies, mixed with a libertarian anti-government sentiment, and somehow a relation to physics, which economics has very little to do with. Money isn't karma, otherwise there wouldn't be so many rich assholes out there.
What that I spoke about is vague? This isn't "new-age" woo-woo garbage, simply the philosophical thoughts of a Senior in Physics/Engineering with a minor in Economics. Conservation of Energy applies to everything, because everything is energy, just in different forms. I do not mean to be rude, but I find your signature is rather offensive. No one should listen to anyone unless by choice, especially to someone who admits they are cynical. Furthermore, violence cannot be fought, that is attempting to rid the world of something by using the thing that created it in the first place. The people most capable of defending against violence on the planet have never been involved in a "fight". No one should ever pride themselves in taking a punch, because that means you missed an opportunity to turn someones aggression back on themselves, and show them the error of their ways. Rejection is a judgement. Want to solve revenge, aggression, and retaliation? Accept them as part of the current human condition, and understand where they come from. They are always the result of suffering. Love as the foundation, I agree with.
Edit: Also, how is saying that Congress shouldn't be handling large sums of money because they have proven themselves irresponsible anti-Government. Simply because I'm suggesting a different form of democracy does not mean that I think the government shouldn't exist. Absolutely nothing is that black and white, quit judging things in the manner that society does. Think for yourself, question everything.
Closing with a joke, what's the opposite of progress? Congress
Edit 2: Do you believe that the act of thinking "there are rich assholes out there" does not effect the odds that there are rich assholes out there? Thoughts shape the world. You have more influence over things "external" to yourself than you believe.
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"Our careful scientific measurements show that many appear to have, technically speaking, lightened the hell up, as their neural pathways were groped by God The Universe and licked by Mother Nature and gently whipped by the divine riding crop of their own deeper consciousness (see Fig. 3.7)."
Edited by Pacmanpth (10/12/11 05:27 PM)
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Bryn Wyvern
Warrior
Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 21
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Pacmanpth]
#15218092 - 10/13/11 07:06 AM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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I've just read this whole thread from start to finish and really enjoyed it. You guys have claws and fangs!!! Ha ha
At the risk of getting mauled...
What this thread seems to sum up is that the whole, massive global situation has bupkiss solutions in the material world (external to inner experience). It's poo-bah guys. It's gone. And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is. Even if they have some kick-ass alien inspired, retro-designed free energy tech hiding in underground bases, ready to flip us into a super-advanced civilization once they've made their money from the last drop of oil - EVEN if that is the case - the vast majority of people on this planet are about to be wiped out by systemic collapse. By "about to be", my guess is within the next decade, based on the supply shocks already happening with food and the mess in the Mid East over oil.
I'll let that all just hang in the air for a moment, and anyone is welcome to argue, of course.
But assuming the above is the grim reality. What is YOUR response. Systemic responses at this point are just pissing in the wind. I mean, are you going to write to your Congressman? Are you going to set up a "back to the countryside" movement of hippies?? What are you going to do?? Those responses scream of an ego denying the reality of death.
To get anywhere, you have to stare into the jaws of death. I mean really stare at it. Really get it, like: "Shit, this is REALLY happening." Yes, it is. It really fucking is. We are on the largest sinking ship this planet (as far as we know) has EVER seen. This baby is huge, across every continent, from the cow herds of Brazil to the McDonalds beef burgers in Hong Kong, the whole damn thing has been built by an epically insane species, convinced that they are not one single being - absolutely convinced of it. And that central, core misunderstanding of the nature of reality is about to bring the entire sha-bang down around humanity's ears. It's going down.
So. Where does that leave YOU? Not the Democrat party, not the health system, not the Financial Reserve and its paper-digital widgets of mass mind control... YOU? Where does it leave you?
As far as I can tell, it leaves you standing on your own grave, holding a spade, waiting for the nod from whichever fool in Washington either blows the whistle on the Second American Revolution - yeah, the one that could tear the world apart - or pushes the button on all out global war, to try and solve everything through war distraction and wartime economy. I reckon you're staring at your tombstone right now.
So, to bring all this back to mushrooms and spirituality... what is the divine response? For that matter, what is the demonic response? I feel that we are being called to obey our survival instinct. I believe that our innate survival instinct applies just as much to our spiritual development as it does to our physical safety. It is actually an evolutionary IMPERATIVE to ascend beyond dependence on the external world.
All of the above conversations have centred around currency and resource allocation. But doesn't all this prove that we now have to start getting REALLY serious, I mean urgently serious, about internal energy generation, resource creation (from within) and sovereign-divine self sustenance? The polar opposite of "money magic" is sentient, conscious, divine reality magic: unifying the astral plane of pure, imaginative thought to the vibrational and atomic plane of the Universal body.
In my own journey with mushrooms, I am now focusing on directly asking "God" - I won't defend my use of that word here, I've defended it on other posts - exactly how are we to bridge the link between infinite inspiration and physical manifestation.
That is the key, guys. If we crack that nut, the world can go to the Hell it is already in - and we can begin creating the resource independent and free energy civilization that will replace it, from the very astral core of our own personal beings.
It's time to become the X-Men. 
Cat. Meet pigeons.
Bryn.
****
PS - it's 3am my time, so I'm off to bed. I'll be back on tomorrow.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is.
My response is to try to really enjoy each meal while I still have access to good spices and such. Oh and to lay in the sun up in the mountains above my house as much as possible. Oh and to play with my dogs and have fun. Oh and to enjoy my dreams at night. Oh and to let it all go as much as I can. Oh and to realize I don't know anything about what's going down. And to not have any solid opinion about god or ultimate meaning. Oh and to take XTC at least twice a year. Oh and to stay out of romantic relationships. Oh and Pandora and Netflix.
It's quite interesting to realize that my generation and my parents generation really didn't have to worry about any of this shit for most of their time here.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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thefloodbehind
Mighty Microcosm
Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 797
Loc: Nashville, TN
Last seen: 2 days, 9 hours
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Re: Money as Dark Magic [Re: Icelander]
#15218333 - 10/13/11 08:05 AM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is.
My response is to try to really enjoy each meal while I still have access to good spices and such. Oh and to lay in the sun up in the mountains above my house as much as possible. Oh and to play with my dogs and have fun. Oh and to enjoy my dreams at night. Oh and to let it all go as much as I can. Oh and to realize I don't know anything about what's going down. And to not have any solid opinion about god or ultimate meaning. Oh and to take XTC at least twice a year. Oh and to stay out of romantic relationships. Oh and Pandora and Netflix.
It's quite interesting to realize that my generation and my parents generation really didn't have to worry about any of this shit for most of their time here.
Translation: My response is to accept that nothing matters and thus fill my life with idle pursuits that will never lead to fulfillment but are good ways to waste time before I die alone.
Sketchy ...
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Night is falling. The world’s night is spreading its darkness, by the ‘default of God.’ Not only have the gods and the god fled, but the divine radiance has become extinguished in the world’s history. It has already grown so destitute, it can no longer discern the default of God as a default. Because of this default, there fails to appear for the world the ground that grounds it. The age for which the ground fails to come hangs in the abyss. Assuming that a turn still remains open for this destitute time at all, it can come some day only if the world turns about fundamentally—and that now means, unequivocally. But for this it is necessary that there be those who reach into the abyss. — Martin Heidigger, “What Are Poets For?”
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 11 hours, 21 minutes
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ya esecially cuz u gonna COME BACK
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,594
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
thefloodbehind said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
And I think the first REALLY important step is realizing just how utterly destroyed it already is.
My response is to try to really enjoy each meal while I still have access to good spices and such. Oh and to lay in the sun up in the mountains above my house as much as possible. Oh and to play with my dogs and have fun. Oh and to enjoy my dreams at night. Oh and to let it all go as much as I can. Oh and to realize I don't know anything about what's going down. And to not have any solid opinion about god or ultimate meaning. Oh and to take XTC at least twice a year. Oh and to stay out of romantic relationships. Oh and Pandora and Netflix.
It's quite interesting to realize that my generation and my parents generation really didn't have to worry about any of this shit for most of their time here.
Translation: My response is to accept that nothing matters and thus fill my life with idle pursuits that will never lead to fulfillment but are good ways to waste time before I die alone.
Sketchy ...
Not quite. I'm actually feeling quite fulfilled with my new attitudes, especially when compared to my time spent in religious speculation and time spent in spiritual speculation. My body does not consider my pursuits idle as I'm in some of the best mental and physical shape of my life and I'm pushing 60. I'm actually living some of the animal life that is my birthright. And while I choose to spend much time alone I'm not lonely, especially compared to my past where I was constantly needing people to quell empty feelings and loneliness that I could not admit was due to my feelings towards myself.
I'll take what I got to what you got any day and consider myself one of the few lucky ones.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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