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Offlinemycelialmeadows
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how do you make a maitake extract?
    #15080089 - 09/14/11 11:04 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Does anyone know how to make a maitake extract for medicinal use?


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Offlineb3jamboree
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: mycelialmeadows]
    #15081931 - 09/15/11 10:49 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

The most simple sort of extract you can make is an alcohol extract or a 'tincture'. All you do is soak the mushrooms in grain alcohol(higher the proof the better) for several weeks to several months.

Then you will want to dilute it some. To make a 'full spectrum' tincture you can dilute the alcohol extraction with miatake tea(just mushrooms steeped in hot water).

You can then take the mixed solution and take it by the drop or you can evaporate all the water off, scrape up the dried material and load it into capsules(not necessarily recommended).


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Offlinejds33
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: mycelialmeadows]
    #15084040 - 09/15/11 08:29 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Alcohol tinctures of medicinal mushrooms do not work because the polysaccharides that contain the beta glucans are not alcohol soluble.

You need to make a tea, the easiest way is lower temp, 175 degrees (below boiling) in a crock pot for a day.

Commercially prepared mushroom tinctures (liquids preserved in alcohol, made by soaking powder in alcohol and water at room temp) do not contain any of the polysaccharides that benefit immune health, the polysaccharides that define a mushrooms as "medicinal".

If you want me to send you references contact me at johnseleen@yahoo.com


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Offlinemikesethnobotany
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: jds33]
    #15084572 - 09/15/11 10:39 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

"Alcohol tinctures of medicinal mushrooms do not work because the polysaccharides that contain the beta glucans are not alcohol soluble."




Quote:

You need to make a tea




Here is a good bit you should read from this site: http://www.cordycepsreishiextracts.com/reishi_water_alcohol_extract.htm


Our most frequently asked question regards hot water extract vs. alcohol extract. One well-known Japanese reishi brand as well as one increasingly popular American brand both claim that only hot water extracts are effective and alcohol extracts are useless because - they say - the important medicinal compounds of reishi are the polysaccharide compounds, which must be hot water extracted. This is an oversimplification to the extent that it is actually misleading. Let us set the facts straight:

The polysaccharide compounds in reishi are medicinally very important and they need to be hot water extracted. That much is true.
However, the anti-inflammatory compounds (triterpenoids) in reishi cannot be hot water extracted. They can only be extracted by alcohol. The anti-inflammatory properties of reishi are considered one of the most important factors of reishi's powerful medicinal effect.
Hot water extract and alcohol extract can be mixed after extraction. Our reishi products contain both hot water extract of reishi and alcohol extract. So unlike the Japanese and American brands referred to above, our brand contains both polysaccharides and anti-inflammatory compounds. It has the best of both worlds.
When the hot water and alcohol extracts are mixed, the large water-soluble polysaccharide molecules fall out of solution and make the liquid cloudy.  So the cloudiness you see in our reishi extract is visual evidence of its high polysaccharide content.  (The same high polysaccharide content is found in the capsules as well.)


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OfflineSteveMyco101
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: mikesethnobotany]
    #15087989 - 09/16/11 05:29 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I agree that John Selene's reply is simplistic to the point of being misleading.  Indeed, some of the active ingredients in mushrooms are water soluble and some alcohol soluble.  However, mushrooms contain many compounds that are insoluble compounds and/or that are denatured by hot water and alcohol extraction techniques.  Even if the compounds are not totally denatured, the structures may be altered by the extraction procedure.  Many of the active ingredients in medicinal mushrooms work by actually binding to cell membrane receptor sites on various types of cells that make up our immune system, much like a key fitting into a starter.  If the structure of the compounds are altered, the "key" may no longer fit. An alternative to the extraction of isolated bioactive ingredients is to take "full-spectrum" unextracted mycelial biomass products that contain all of the active ingredients contained in the mushroom.  Solid State Fermentation technologies have been developed over the past 40 years that produce products that contain mycelium, extra-cellular enzymes, the "fermented" organic substrate (generally a grain with medicinal qualities of its own), and also primordia and young fruit bodies-- essentially the complete mushroom organism.  Additionally, beta glucans (the target compound in hot water extractions)in mycelial cells is more bioavailable than those in the fruit body cell walls with stronger chitin covalent bonds.  While extracted products may contain higher concentrations of certain isolated active ingredients, more is not always better.  Higher dosages of extracted compounds from mushrooms may actually have immunosuppressive effects or may overwhelm our body's homeostasis.  In the case of mushrooms, the whole is certainly greater than the sum of the individual components.  Many of the active ingredients in mushrooms work together in synergistic ways that we do not yet fully understand.  While therapeutic  dosages of concentrated  fungal extracts are often measured in micrograms or milligrams, larger servings of un-extracted products in the range of 1 to 30 grams per day (depending on body weight, stage of health and health goals) offers cost effective  health benefits for health maintenance and optimization with minimal risk of adverse side-effects.


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Offlinemikesethnobotany
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: SteveMyco101]
    #15090083 - 09/17/11 01:56 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I like your thinking stevemyco. You definitely know your mushrooms, and definitely have taken a Biochemistry course or two, I can tell because I am in one. Theres no doubt that what you say is true, and there are tons of things we don't know about mushrooms. I agree that the real deal is better than extracts, thats for certain. However, some people enjoy the conveniences of pills or tinctures and would rather take them that way... Ultimately, you can pack in a higher concentration of the known immunoenhancing chemicals that mushrooms contain into tinctures by weight compared to the amount of mushrooms you would have to eat to get the equivalent of these compounds.. certainly, this mushroom equivalent amount would be larger than "reasonable" for eating on a day-to-day basis in some (but not all) situations.

The article I posted provides valuable insight for people wanting to purchase mushroom supplements for whatever their reason. I again agree with your saying that the real-deal is better though.


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InvisibleSheikCorp
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: SteveMyco101]
    #15095152 - 09/18/11 11:54 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

So would cooking the mushroom denature the goodies in maitake?  How about drying and powdering?

What about making a Maitake fermented malt drink?  Simply malt extract, water, and clean maitake culture. Let it brew a few days and drink it.

Does parboiling  and freezing effect the goodies?


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OfflineSteveMyco101
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: SheikCorp]
    #15101105 - 09/19/11 03:45 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Cooking maitake mushroom fruit bodies will probably denature some of the active ingredients but not nearly to the extent that occurs during hot water extraction procedures that generally involve boiling in water (not just a simmer, but a full rolling boil) for many hours followed by the addition of ethanol to precipitate the polysaccharides out of solution.  The cooking of fresh mushrooms generally involves lower temperatures for a shorter periods of time and will, in general, make the mushroom easier to digest with minimal loss of active ingredient functionality.  Dehydration of mushrooms, as long as it is done at relatively low temperatures (<118ยบ F) should not significantly denature any active ingredients.. 
Powdering/milling of mushrooms generally does not create sufficient heat to denature anything, and, by virtue of decreasing particle size and increasing surface area, will increase digestibility/bioavailability.
While a fermented Maitake malt drink sounds interesting, it probably wouldn't work very well at home.  The process would require a "bioreactor" wherein the malt/nutrient broth could be sterilized, cooled and then aseptically inoculated with the culture followed by agitation and HEPA filtered-aeration to supply the submerged culture with Oxygen.  While yeast species are adapted to ferment in a liquid matrix, mushrooms require aeration and agitation to grow in submerged fermentaton (SmF)condtions.


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Offlinemycelialmeadows
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: SteveMyco101]
    #15109249 - 09/20/11 11:07 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Is it safe to just dry, powder and then encapsulate maitake without cooking?

So making a warm water and an alcohol tincture may be affective?

how does stamets extract his mycomedicinals?


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: mycelialmeadows]
    #16253782 - 05/19/12 01:13 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mycelialmeadows said:
Is it safe to just dry, powder and then encapsulate maitake without cooking?

So making a warm water and an alcohol tincture may be affective?







I'm trying to figure this out myself. I want to get the most possible benefit from my mushrooms, and I had thought that a water extraction (BELOW boiling, in crock pot) followed by an alcohol extraction, would be the most effective way to consume them. I've read that many of the chemicals extracted by these methods are NOT bio-available when simply consuming powdered mushroom products.

That information made me think that powdered products were kind of a rip-off, since your body can't extract those chemicals effectively. Am I just totally wrong here? Extracts are more trouble for me to make than powdered capsules so I'd love ditch that process if there is something more effective. Thanks all, lets get to the bottom of this!


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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: simplemachine]
    #16254053 - 05/19/12 02:51 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I had good results with boiling my reishi first for 3 hours. I will concentrate the liquid over a simmer afterwards as much as i can. To this i will add alcohol to start the second stage of the extraction. everything is stored in the fridge for a month or so and boil it one more time with added water to get rid of the alcohol. comes out strong enough to get very noticeable benefits and i drink about an oz or two with my coffee daily. you can see the precipitation in this picture. before i did the alcohol extraction it was always coming out clear.



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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: madadi]
    #16254361 - 05/19/12 04:54 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Great thread.

I am finally going to do this with some dried Reishi.

I will do water, large pot, simmer for a looooong time, then alcohol
added for the second phase.

I am thinking that I would like to remove the mushroom solids and
save the water, so that I can do the alcohol stage separately.

Thanks for the time,

JD


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Offlinemadadi
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: Javadog]
    #16254398 - 05/19/12 05:07 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

saving the solids is a good idea so the alcohol is not diluted once added. this is the reason why i tried to boil out as much water as i can. whatever you do though keep it in the fridge. in my experience the tea gets spoiled in a week or so if i dont.


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: Javadog]
    #16254413 - 05/19/12 05:12 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:

I am thinking that I would like to remove the mushroom solids and
save the water, so that I can do the alcohol stage separately.

Thanks for the time,

JD




I've been doing it that way, so I can soak the leftovers from the water extraction in alcohol for a week or so, recombine and boil off the ethanol. Is it possible that the heat from the water extraction could denature the chems we are after? I had thought the denaturing required higher temps...


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Offlinemikesethnobotany
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: simplemachine]
    #16254870 - 05/19/12 07:31 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I am by no means an expert biochemist, but I am very familiar with biochemistry from my undergraduate education as a pre-med. What I understand is that proteins denature at their secondary and tertiary structures, and this is due to changes in pH or heat mainly, and in some situations from salts. Denaturing breaks some of those hydrogen and/or ionic bonds that normally hold the protein structure together. Enzymes are the types of proteins which are generally referred to by "denaturing," and that is because in order for them to function correctly, they must have a very specific structure that binds to its substrate.

With complex carbohydrates it doesn't matter if the structure isn't perfect because they aren't enzymes. They may bind to membrane receptors but that receptor will not have a special pocket for an entire sugar, just one portion.

In my opinion, boiling the compounds will not destroy any of the chemicals we are interested in, because none of them are proteins. They are triterpenoids (lipid/alcohol soluble molecules) and also complex polysaccharides (water soluble.)


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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: mikesethnobotany]
    #16259370 - 05/20/12 08:15 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Would you do Turkey-tail (Trametes versicolor) the same way?


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Offlinemadadi
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: bambus]
    #16259550 - 05/20/12 08:57 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

i use cordyceps, reishi, and turkey tail the same way.


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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: madadi]
    #16259896 - 05/20/12 10:15 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Hello,

Yesterday I took all of the Reishi that I have grown and cut it up as
best I could.  I then simmered it for about 8 hours.  This morning I
took the solid mass from the result and put it into a jar with grain
alcohol. 

I now have a few questions...

How long should I leave it in the alcohol?

Should the water extraction be frozen while I wait?  It is in the
fridge right now.

I will have about 500 ml of fluid when I am done.

The funny thing is that I do not know how I am to use the result.

I am thinking that I will want to freeze the result, but perhaps I should
boil off the water until it is a much smaller volume and then add
the result to some more grain alcohol.  This might allow it to be
stored in the fridge for longer without it spoiling.

How are you all storing this stuff?

Thank you all for the time.

JD

P.S. The alcohol, a "fifth" of "Everclear" cost me $22.  Now, this was
at Del Mar Liquor, and Del Mar is an expensive town, but let me also
ask how much you are paying for grain spirits?


--------------------
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Offlinemadadi
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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: Javadog]
    #16260065 - 05/20/12 10:45 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

i put my tea in gatorade bottles and freeze them while the mushroom is soaked in the alcohol for 2-4weeks. this is what i also do to the finished, combined tea. freeze it and keep one bottle out at a time which i drink slowly with my coffee. i just use 1.5L vodka which i pay about 25-28bucks. this is what has worked for me so far.


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Re: how do you make a maitake extract? [Re: madadi]
    #16303888 - 05/30/12 01:27 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

check out the precipitation on this last batch. soaked for one month in vodka. left in fridge overnight and it looks like this in the morning. it was nice and dark, tea like the nigh before.



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