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foliocb said:
i think you have bad energy

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zZZz said:
I read somewhere that eating meat is bad because when the animals, like cows, are killed they leave bad energy that stays in the meat, and when you eat this it effects your own energies and sometimes causes sickness, not just physically but mentally as well. To me this sounds plausible. What do guys and girls think about this?

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zZZz said:
I read somewhere that eating meat is bad because when the animals, like cows, are killed they leave bad energy that stays in the meat, and when you eat this it effects your own energies and sometimes causes sickness, not just physically but mentally as well. To me this sounds plausible. What do guys and girls think about this?

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zZZz said:
good point, but the other animals are killing them to live, not to sell the meat to the mass and profit.

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I read somewhere that eating meat is bad

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Must be true then. I mean, millions of ppl take letters on paper as factual evidence of things so I guess where ever you read that must be true. Lemme guess, god also told you so?

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zZZz said:
foliocb, I have nothing to say to you, and you have nothing valuable to say to me.

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p4kSouL said:
You kill vegatables too when you eat them, plants have cells similar to humans and they are "Murdered" when you consume them.

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c0sm0nautt said:
[I think we can all agree a humans life, from our perspective, is worth more than a micro-organism.

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Worth more? In what currency? Dollars?

Sounds like a bunch of speculation and biased, conditioned and programmed thinking. You are a plant.

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foliocb said:

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c0sm0nautt said:
[I think we can all agree a humans life, from our perspective, is worth more than a micro-organism.

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Worth more? In what currency? Dollars?

Sounds like a bunch of speculation and biased, conditioned and programmed thinking. You are a plant.

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p4kSouL said:
True but animals can have egos too maybe??

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For whatever reason, it occurred to me that it would be interesting to see how long it took the water to get from the root area of this plant, all the way up this long trunk and out and down to the leaves. After doing a saturation watering of the plant, I thought, "Well gee whiz, I've got a lot of polygraph equipment around; let me hook the galvanic skin response section of the polygraph onto the leaf."
Now this is a whetstone bridge circuit that is designed to measure resistance changes, and I felt that as the contaminated water came up the trunk and down into the leaf that the leaf becoming more saturated and a better conductor it would give me the rising time of the water....I would be able to get that on the polygraph chart tracing.

Well this was the thing that started it. Now the thing trended downward rather than upward, which amazed me a little bit because it should have been going slowly upward on the tracings, if it was going to show a drop in resistance.
I moved it up here - this was my move - and then it came down again, and this is the thing that amazed me right here because this contour right away...I'm looking and thinking, "That's got the contour of a human being tested, reacting when you are asking a question that could get them in trouble."

So I forgot about the rising water time and said, Wow, this thing wants to show me people-like reactions. "What can I do that will be a threat to the well being of the plant," similar to the fact that a relevant question regarding a crime could be a threat to a person taking a polygraph test if they're lying.

About 15 minutes along - 13 minutes and 55 seconds along in this initial observation...I had tried different things to try to get a reaction from this plant - I had even dipped a neighboring leaf into a cup of rather warm coffee - and the plant didn't show me anything like a reaction. It showed me, if anything, boredom, and just continued to go downwards. If this thing were an individual, the fact that they were getting bored and sleepy.

But over here, the idea occurred to me, the idea occurred to me - and only the idea - "I know what I am going to do: I am going to burn that plant leaf, that very leaf that's attached to the polygraph."

Now I didn't have matches in the room. I wasn't touching the plant in any way. I was maybe five feet away from the desk. I was essentially away from the plant.

The only new thing that occurred was my intent to burn that plant leaf.

Right here, split second-wise, was when I thought of burning that plant leaf and the image entered my mind. I wasn't using words at all.

And up that the thing went into a wild agitation.

Now this was very late at night and towards morning. The building was empty and there was just no other reason for this reaction. This had been going along at a fairly stable level all the way up to this point.

So this amazed me.

This, I would say, would be a very high quality observation, and my consciousness hasn't been the same since. And this happened in 1966.

I thought, "Wow! This thing read my mind!" It was that obvious to me right then.

So then I went to get some matches from the next room. The secretary was a smoker, and I got some matches out of her desk and brought them in.

The next will show where I came back in the room, right about here. I lit the match. I was even into burning a neighboring leaf rather than the leaf I had hook up. Somehow that was already a special leaf already.

Even before I had a chance to do this I thought, "Well, this massive degree of reaction that I'm getting here, I wouldn't be able to see any additional reaction if it did occur."

So I thought, "Well, let me reverse the process and remove the threat from the room."

So I took the matches back out of the room here, came back in at this point, and the thing just evened right out again, which really rounded it out and gave me a very, very high quality observation.

Now when my partner in the polygraph school we were running at the time came in, he was able to do the same thing also, as long as he intended to burn the plant leaf. If he pretended to burn the plant leaf, it wouldn't react.

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p4kSouL said:
Well animals possibly have memories or  "little realities". (Which would seem huge to them?) I think they have egos. If we first define what ego is, I define it as something like this: concrete experiences of the world, which animals have from my observations.

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zZZz said:
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense, but have you noticed that every animal that eats meat is most likely aggressive?

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zZZz said:
foliocb, I have nothing to say to you, and you have nothing valuable to say to me.

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Cop out imo.

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foliocb said:
Stop making your animals eat meat so they can get rid of their negative energy. Watch their health improve drastically!

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All I said that it is scientifically proven that meat is an unhealthy alternative to plants for humans. Animals have a different biology, many of which who need meat to survive.

My own moral argument against factory farming has to do with me caring about how we treat other living beings. I never said anything about negative energy, so stop being condescending.

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LayinUp said:
And I love fish if it's fresh.

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c0sm0nautt said:
The studies I've seen must have dealt with the vast majority of the meat we consume, which unfortunately isn't free range.

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That doesn't really support the contention that meat is intrinsically unhealthy.  In fact the opposite is true and now medical researchers are doing an about face on the issue of saturated fats and health.  Not enough saturated fats?  Disease.  The exact opposite of what they were saying a few years ago.

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zZZz said:
I read somewhere that eating meat is bad because when the animals, like cows, are killed they leave bad energy that stays in the meat, and when you eat this it effects your own energies and sometimes causes sickness, not just physically but mentally as well. To me this sounds plausible. What do guys and girls think about this?

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I think that's bullshit.

But, I don't eat meat for the simple reason that it's cruel to raise other sentient beings in tiny, cramped cages their whole lives to slaughter and eat them, when I could have easily gotten nutrients from other foods.

Plus, it's not like going vegetarian was hard. It was the easiest thing in the world. I just stopped buying meat and learned lots of vegetarian recipes. Every bit as tasty as meat, but healthier, less expensive, and without unnecessary cruelty.

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Trypppy said:

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p4kSouL said:
Well animals possibly have memories or  "little realities". (Which would seem huge to them?) I think they have egos. If we first define what ego is, I define it as something like this: concrete experiences of the world, which animals have from my observations.

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There are few animals in the world that can recognize themselves when placed in front of a mirror, or even realize that the thing on the other side is not another animal.How can you say something has an ego when it has no idea who or what it is?

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deff said:
just to add to the "do plants feel pain" idea that came up a few posts ago

pain is an evolutionary adaptation to allow mobile creatures to escape injury - plants cannot move away from harm so them feeling pain would have no evolutionary benefit to their species - it would just be a very mean trick of nature for plants to feel pain

also, it appears (?) that plants don't have minds nor the physical equipment that we identify in animals responsible for cognition etc

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Icelander said:

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zZZz said:
foliocb, I have nothing to say to you, and you have nothing valuable to say to me.

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Cop out imo.

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Trust me, its best that way. I have lots to say but i don't have the intellect to say it properly. You guys are way to smart for me, sometimes i can't even understand what some people say.

I really need to go back to school. 

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zZZz said:

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Icelander said:

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zZZz said:
foliocb, I have nothing to say to you, and you have nothing valuable to say to me.

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Cop out imo.

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Trust me, its best that way. I have lots to say but i don't have the intellect to say it properly. You guys are way to smart for me, sometimes i can't even understand what some people say.

I really need to go back to school. 

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I like your style. Don't feed the 

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zZZz said:
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense, but have you noticed that every animal that eats meat is most likely aggressive?

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c0sm0nautt said:
Factory farming in a horrible thing. I try and eat less meat because of this. I don't know about bad energy, but there have been studies that show that plants are healthier than meat.

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deff said:
just to add to the "do plants feel pain" idea that came up a few posts ago

pain is an evolutionary adaptation to allow mobile creatures to escape injury - plants cannot move away from harm so them feeling pain would have no evolutionary benefit to their species - it would just be a very mean trick of nature for plants to feel pain

also, it appears (?) that plants don't have minds nor the physical equipment that we identify in animals responsible for cognition etc

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foliocb said:

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zZZz said:
foliocb, I have nothing to say to you, and you have nothing valuable to say to me.

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zZZz said:
I read somewhere that eating meat is bad because when the animals, like cows, are killed they leave bad energy that stays in the meat, and when you eat this it effects your own energies and sometimes causes sickness, not just physically but mentally as well. To me this sounds plausible. What do guys and girls think about this?

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I don't like to eat mammals, and I've eaten only one free-range beef burger in the last 2 months. I'm trying to eliminate mammals from my diet entirely, yet, a friend invited me to dinner which consisted of Italian sausage. I didn't eat fowl all summer, but back at work, I am back to Boar's Head Mesquite Turkey sandwiches 3-4 days a week, with salmon or tuna salad. I was a vegan for some 3 years, but I was 20-23 years old. I regressed first to eggs, then fish, then meat.

Ethically, I feel it is wrong to take life of sentient creatures. I disagreed with a Tibetan Buddhist monk once, who maintained that eating a tin of sardines was more grievous than eating one cow. So far, I am trying to eliminate mammals (like myself). I do not feel or look well on a strictly vegan fare. I accept that humans are omnivores, but my childhood friend who is more mesomorphic than me, and 5'8" now weighs 136 lbs. I told him he's acting like an anorexic girl, who, in an attempt not to get older and become a fully sexual being, starves herself into pre-pubescent form. He says that he feels great, but I think he looks wan and old. Another friend had a 4 day workshop with Alex Grey, who is my age, and she said that he too looks wan and drawn (no pun intended) His hair is all grey, (which is also no pun), but with some lecithin, vitamin E, and some antioxidants, that could be reversed (if he cared).

One thing is certain, free-range animals are treated infinitely better before their death; and fast-food does not even come into consideration. It agrifarms millions of animals under hellish conditions. The animals hear, smell, and sense the terror of those dying before them. As many s 300,000 pigs die from heart attacks each year before they even get to be slaughtered. And the so-called 'meat' in fast foods will convey the karma of fear to regular consumers in the form of atherosclerosis, hypercholesterolemia, obesity, and colo-rectal cancers.

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we are special animals in a variety of ways, and our concepts of morality are among our most important.

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Haha, yeah we're special animals

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Noteworthy said:

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deff said:
just to add to the "do plants feel pain" idea that came up a few posts ago

pain is an evolutionary adaptation to allow mobile creatures to escape injury - plants cannot move away from harm so them feeling pain would have no evolutionary benefit to their species - it would just be a very mean trick of nature for plants to feel pain

also, it appears (?) that plants don't have minds nor the physical equipment that we identify in animals responsible for cognition etc

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but plants do move... just very slowly.
if you cut off a part of a plant, it will react in a certain way depending on where the damage was. I dont think all plants have as good reactions as other plants, but dont be fooled into thinking plants are passive. They seek sunlight, detect gravity, respond to damage, communicate with other plants, etc. Plants move their leaves, twist their stems, and determine the flow of nutrients and hormones based on very complex systems



As for this thread, I think the reasoning behind humans being vegetarian when lions eat meat is that lions dont know any better.
But that doesnt cut it for me personally.

I think the problem is pain for the animal.

But then I wonder: why do we let animals exist in the jungle maiming eachother in torturous ways?

Shouldnt we put a stop to lion attacks?

Why not?

what about wild human attacks?

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zZZz said:
I read somewhere that eating meat is bad because when the animals, like cows, are killed they leave bad energy that stays in the meat, and when you eat this it effects your own energies and sometimes causes sickness, not just physically but mentally as well. To me this sounds plausible. What do guys and girls think about this?

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I have thought about this myself...

I have had an Indian friend who told me that "When you eat meat, negative thoughts are more prevalent in your mind."

It could even be viewed as a chemical reaction...Animals would release all kinds of things in their body if they lived a stressful life, and or were killed in a stressed out fashion...Which most mass produced farmed animals fit that category...

I think this possibility is over looked by a lot of derps.

You see carnivorous animals are the ones that adsorb the creatures energy quite literally in the form of eating its flesh...As A lion eats he is consuming also the Chemical reactions within the animals blood, like adrenaline for example...These animals are literal incarnations of this though, and they are designed to consume animals like that...


Animals feel pain, they feel emotion, Humans just feel it to a greater degree...If you can even call it that.

I think yes. The flesh of an animal DOES retain if anything chemical reactions that could be negative for humans.

On the spiritual side, consuming animals all the time as a human could be detrimental both to you understanding how to love all of life, and also detrimental to perhaps the mind itself.


Its not like this idea is new though

Hinduism is the most ancient of all known religious practices...and they are not even the only culture that practiced vegetarianism/ religions based on understanding the very foundations of life. (not just examining it under a microscope)

"The eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion."
~The Buddha

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gnarfbuckle said:
I like how were not supposed to eat meat yet every other animal nature created does and its fine.

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I don't know exactly what you said there but...There are plenty of animals that dont eat other creature's muscle tissue...

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giza said:
Well another one of the benefits I can think of for an all plant diet, is you get to eat more mass per calorie through plant food, plus of course the more essential nutrients per mass as well.

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Well exactly...Plants provide the basis of all creatures capability to even be alive...Much less the micro nutrients they contain.

Why do you think many vegetarian animals get kool stuff like horns? (calcium and iron that can only be absorbed by eating plants is part of it)

Or why do you think that vegetarian animals get intensely larger and more powerful than in comparison to most carnivorous animals?

Also why do most live extremely longer lives? I have a little pet crested gecko that all it eats is apples and bananas and it will live 20 years while a dog will live 10...And that's not even counting Creatures like Iguanas or certain Turtles that live for 100+ years

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TeamAmerica said:
I used to get extremely Nauseous as a child when eating fried chicken fetus in the morning...(also known as 'eggs')

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Silversoul said:

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TeamAmerica said:
I used to get extremely Nauseous as a child when eating fried chicken fetus in the morning...(also known as 'eggs')

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You do know the eggs you get at the store are unfertilized, right?

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no I like the ones that actually have chicken fetuses fully formed...

mmmm EXTRA PROTEIN

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TeamAmerica said:
Like trees we are

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A good friend of mine just died of a heart fucking attack. I'd known him for almost 20 years.  He was almost 50 and a long distance runner who has won one of the big national marathons.  He was very lean and everyone considered him beyond healthy.  He was vegan, and avoided saturated fats.  And IMO that's exactly what killed him.

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There's a 108yo woman here in SE Portland that accredits her longevity to her vegan diet, she's quite possibly the oldest living woman in Oregon...   even then, comparing quality of life surrounding most people's death, 50 years of perceived exceptional health, running marathons to the bitter end, seems ok by me.

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I accept that humans are omnivores, but my childhood friend who is more mesomorphic than me, and 5'8" now weighs 136 lbs. I told him he's acting like an anorexic girl, who, in an attempt not to get older and become a fully sexual being, starves herself into pre-pubescent form. He says that he feels great, but I think he looks wan and old.

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One thing is certain, free-range animals are treated infinitely better before their death; and fast-food does not even come into consideration. It agrifarms millions of animals under hellish conditions. The animals hear, smell, and sense the terror of those dying before them. As many s 300,000 pigs die from heart attacks each year before they even get to be slaughtered. And the so-called 'meat' in fast foods will convey the karma of fear to regular consumers in the form of atherosclerosis, hypercholesterolemia, obesity, and colo-rectal cancers.

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No diet and exercise program can get you to 100 by itself.  You have to have the right genes for that.

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