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 meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,777
Loc: In a Tree
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Quote:
HarveyWalbanger said:
Your rather prone to theatrics, aren't you?
Yessss Yrat loves theatrics. Its the driving force of most of his arguments 
jk  you Yrat
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 Yrat
Hello
Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,030
Last seen: 12 hours, 43 minutes
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Quote:
HarveyWalbanger said:
You're rather prone to theatrics, aren't you? ...I can just picture you jumping up and down screaming "MINE A FUCKING ASTEROID" and "it's totally impossible" because it's the only thing propping your argument up (that you believe it's totally unfeasible to produce more gold); But then casually saying if it ever does happen we'll just use something else. As if you have the power to suddenly change the rules on everyone just because it may endanger the crummy store of value you want to use.
If your going to fix a problem, fucking fix it. You don't switch to a currency that is potentially worthless, and assume we'll fix it in the future.
theatrics? your argument against thousands of years of monetary history is the potential of mining a giant-golden-nugget-asteroid, and I'M prone the theatrics? 
the only thing propping up MY argument? LOL. your argument is that at some point in the future, humans might find a golden fucking asteroid, and mine that bitch... i say yeah right, and it's the only thing propping up MY argument? l-o-fucking-l.
plus, you completely failed to understand my post. good job.
it is clear that you don't understand market economics. nowhere did i say "we'll switch to something else." i said that by the time we can mine a fucking asteroid, likely thousands of years from now, the free market might have settled on something other than gold, something more efficient, as a medium of exchange anyways. do you know how markets work? (hint: the markets haven't chosen fiat due to efficiency. that's called govt mandate)
again, call me when we can mine a fucking golden asteroid. until then your argument is entirely meaningless.
jesus christ. 
Edited by Yrat (08/17/11 07:32 AM)
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,777
Loc: In a Tree
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 Re: It was all a lie.  [Re: Yrat]
#14937142 - 08/17/11 02:51 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
theatrics? your argument against thousands of years of monetary history is the potential of mining a giant-golden-nugget-asteroid, and I'M prone the theatrics?
this made me lollercake 
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HarveyWalbanger
Demiurge
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 3,068
Loc: 8b
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14937568 - 08/17/11 04:27 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I didn't choose 433 eros because it's an "asteroid of solid gold". Theres nothing uncommon about what it contains at all. I chose it because it's the next sizable near earth asteroid. (the smaller ones are far easier to collect, and just as valuable, but I couldn't ballpark figures for that mass of debris if I tried)
I made no claims on how feasible it was to mine an 11 x 6 miles rock (a rock that you could walk across if one were so inclined), or whether or not it was a semi-safe currency for the time being. I'm not an economist, just a scientist. ....I just wanted to point out that its not even a fraction as rare as you think it is. And that your "you can't print more" argument is wrong. It's eveywhere besides earth and ridiculous deflation is indeed possible.
If you can't see that gold is lierally nothing more than a shiny metal used for coinage; because your soooo attached to the idea that "gold is the only thing that can save us from the evil bankers." ...I don't quite know what to tell you.
Well.. except maybe that they'll never switch back to gold currency, while mining asteroids is just a matter of time. Your idea is far more bullshit than mine is.
Edited by HarveyWalbanger (08/18/11 03:39 AM)
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,777
Loc: In a Tree
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The increase in the supply of gold is not sufficient to keep pace with the increase in human population. Unless we are looking to have less and less wealth/individual as time proceeds - governments would be set with the task of reassigning the value of gold so as to keep pace with "human inflation". In the end, this revaluation is just as prone to corruption as the printing presses we operate now.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: meams] 1
#14937887 - 08/17/11 05:29 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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What gets me is that goldbugs talk about how the gold standard is so ancient, but the kind of gold standard most of them have in mind has never actually existed. There has never been a system where there was enough gold to back every paper dollar in circulation. They had to use fractional reserve lending in order to meet the demand for money. And even when gold coins were used, that system relied on seignorage. The value stamped on the coin had to be greater than the commodity value of the metal on which it was stamped, or else people would just melt it down for the commodity value(of course, coin clipping was still a frequent problem). All of these systems involved a government mandate(or "fiat" if you will) associated with the value of gold, whether it was the convertibility of dollars to gold, or the value stamped on the coins.
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AkhenAton
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 128
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
What gets me is that goldbugs talk about how the gold standard is so ancient, but the kind of gold standard most of them have in mind has never actually existed. There has never been a system where there was enough gold to back every paper dollar in circulation. They had to use fractional reserve lending in order to meet the demand for money. And even when gold coins were used, that system relied on seignorage. The value stamped on the coin had to be greater than the commodity value of the metal on which it was stamped, or else people would just melt it down for the commodity value(of course, coin clipping was still a frequent problem). All of these systems involved a government mandate(or "fiat" if you will) associated with the value of gold, whether it was the convertibility of dollars to gold, or the value stamped on the coins.
No fractional reserve lending is being utilized because there is a national debt and a tab on a double entry ledger and since all property is in receivership, you can only be granted legal tender as trust funds granted by the creditors choice that only discharge liability. You cannot have gold because gold is for those in freehold estates where there is no national debt. fractional reserve units represent stock, as since there is a national debt, your only business is receivership. Now watch as that goes over many heads. But I would love to see someone challenge me on it..
Edited by AkhenAton (08/17/11 05:37 PM)
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,777
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14937965 - 08/17/11 05:42 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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AkhenAton I think you utterly failed to grasp what Silversoul just said (and what he said is 100% true)
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14937974 - 08/17/11 05:43 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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If you want to see somebody challenge it, then you have to word it such that it doesn't go over many heads. Its easy to make a dense paragraph of jargon and put the onus on others to challenge it. The hard part is doing the opposite and putting the onus on yourself to explain it.
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,777
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: DieCommie]
#14938040 - 08/17/11 05:52 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
If you want to see somebody challenge it, then you have to word it such that it doesn't go over many heads.
We understand it just fine, he just failed to address anything Silversoul had just said -- that Gold supplies are insufficient and thus require a government valuation regardless. A valuation that is just as susceptable to manipulation as any paper fiat currency.
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AkhenAton
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 128
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: DieCommie]
#14938049 - 08/17/11 05:53 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
If you want to see somebody challenge it, then you have to word it such that it doesn't go over many heads. Its easy to make a dense paragraph of jargon and put the onus on others to challenge it. The hard part is doing the opposite and putting the onus on yourself to explain it.
I am being specific if that is okay. Its law, not for me to prove as it is already policy. the jargon is called legalese and if you don't understand it you don't really know what is going on now do you?
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AkhenAton
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 128
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: meams]
#14938056 - 08/17/11 05:54 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
meams said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
If you want to see somebody challenge it, then you have to word it such that it doesn't go over many heads.
We understand it just fine, he just failed to address anything Silversoul had just said -- that Gold supplies are insufficient and thus require a government valuation regardless. A valuation that is just as susceptable to manipulation as any paper fiat currency.
I would have to disagree. Now are we at a challenge yet? Now when I get to putting this information together do not run away okay?
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14938060 - 08/17/11 05:55 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
AkhenAton said:
the jargon is called legalese and if you don't understand it you don't really know what is going on now do you?
Nope, of course not. That is the point I was trying to make.
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AkhenAton
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 128
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: DieCommie]
#14938080 - 08/17/11 05:57 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
AkhenAton said:
the jargon is called legalese and if you don't understand it you don't really know what is going on now do you?
Nope, of course not. That is the point I was trying to make.
oh are you asking me to explain?
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,777
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton] 1
#14938151 - 08/17/11 06:11 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
AkhenAton said:
Now when I get to putting this information together do not run away okay?
Depends on what 'information' you generate. If its a hoard of more bullshit, then I'll promptly take my leave. I'm not here to entertain the ramblings of week-old members. I've seen your posts - they look like shit. For example:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14936088#14936088
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14936092#14936092
I hope you do better this time. Because otherwise you'll quickly & simply be put on nignore, to no distress on my end.
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AkhenAton
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 128
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: meams]
#14938171 - 08/17/11 06:16 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
meams said:
Quote:
AkhenAton said:
Now when I get to putting this information together do not run away okay?
Depends on what 'information' you generate. If its a hoard of more bullshit, then I'll promptly take my leave. I'm not here to entertain the ramblings of week-old members. I've seen your posts - they look like shit. For example:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14936088#14936088
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14936092#14936092
I hope you do better this time. Because otherwise you'll quickly & simply be put on nignore, to no distress on my end.
Okay, but first disprove any of the information that was posted in those two links you call shit. I want a breakdown. We will find out who is shit right now. Please do not hesitate.
I'm pretty sure I will get put on your ignore list with no reason and no proof of anything you are talking about. In addition, lol why would I care if you ignore me?
Edited by AkhenAton (08/17/11 06:41 PM)
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14938302 - 08/17/11 06:43 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Okay, but first disprove any of the information that was posted in those two links you call shit. I want a breakdown. We will find out who is shit right now. Please do not hesitate.
This is what I am talking about. Just pasting or writing a bunch of stuff and then saying 'disprove it' is ridiculous and nobody will take you seriously. They are your posts, you take the time to substantiate them or else you are, by default, disproved.
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AkhenAton
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 128
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: DieCommie]
#14938364 - 08/17/11 06:52 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Okay, but first disprove any of the information that was posted in those two links you call shit. I want a breakdown. We will find out who is shit right now. Please do not hesitate.
This is what I am talking about. Just pasting or writing a bunch of stuff and then saying 'disprove it' is ridiculous and nobody will take you seriously. They are your posts, you take the time to substantiate them or else you are, by default, disproved.
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Okay, but first disprove any of the information that was posted in those two links you call shit. I want a breakdown. We will find out who is shit right now. Please do not hesitate.
This is what I am talking about. Just pasting or writing a bunch of stuff and then saying 'disprove it' is ridiculous and nobody will take you seriously. They are your posts, you take the time to substantiate them or else you are, by default, disproved.
Okay which part? I posted plenty already I think the problem maybe you guys are not getting it because
1. You don't know what you are doing
2. Barely know what you are talking about
Be specific, which part are you asking about?
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AkhenAton
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 128
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: DieCommie]
#14938382 - 08/17/11 06:55 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Okay, but first disprove any of the information that was posted in those two links you call shit. I want a breakdown. We will find out who is shit right now. Please do not hesitate.
This is what I am talking about. Just pasting or writing a bunch of stuff and then saying 'disprove it' is ridiculous and nobody will take you seriously. They are your posts, you take the time to substantiate them or else you are, by default, disproved.
The guy posted two links to threads I posted on. He didn't say anything specific about it. Just "it's shit". I said in response if its shit disprove it. Now please explain to me what is wrong with that?
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 17,777
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14938687 - 08/17/11 07:59 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah. The links to your posts. Your posts were formatted terrible, were near-unreadable. DieCommie is right. YOu're a week into your stay here and already being written off by the resident MoneyMembers as rediculous.
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