Quote:

---

"SERIOUS OLD UFOLOGY

Serious Old Ufologists are those who accumulate cases, like Richard Dolan does concerning declassified documents that discuss the scrambling of fighter jets to chase unknown intelligently controlled craft; and declassified documents that discuss unknown intelligently controlled craft that landed or showed up on radar.


SERIOUS NEW UFOLOGY

Serious New Ufologists are not interested in accumulating more cases. At the present time Serious New Ufology has a key question to answer:

* WHAT ARE THEY? (i.e. what are the intelligently controlled craft?) Once the technologists and physicists reach a consensus on that question a new question arises…

* WHERE ARE THEY FROM? (The origins question cannot be asked first because if we ask where are they from first then someone may reply where are WHAT from?) IF there are exotic answers to the previous two questions then scientists will ponder the question WHY ARE THEY HERE? By now the phenomenon will also be political irrespective of whether the answers to the previous questions are ET/other dimensions answers or earthly and human answers.

There is another important point to make here. We cannot assume that the UFO phenomenon conforms to one single theory. It may be the case that different theorists are picking up on relative truths concerning the⁸ phenomenon but are overlooking the work of others. This line of thinking certainly cannot be dismissed at the present time.

---

Quote:

---

zzripz said:
but you get this split--those who believe the nuts and bolts ETH and those who believe in the fairies. Seldon do you have those who are open to BOTH theories

---

Quote:

---

Icelander said:
I reached the inevitable conclusion that the phenomenon is a reality.

If your conclusion was inevitable then your search was not an honest one.  This is basic and true.

---

Quote:

---

FishOilTheKid said:
What would you make of visions that are mere projections of alien craft...??

---

Quote:

---

Space Elf said:

Quote:

---

zzripz said:
but you get this split--those who believe the nuts and bolts ETH and those who believe in the fairies. Seldon do you have those who are open to BOTH theories

---

The supernatural explanation of the UFO phenomenon is what initially compelled me to begin researching it. Unlike the extraterrestrial hypothesis, this was a theory worth investigating because I could see it as a real possibility. After a lengthy period of time spent studying this topic, I reached the inevitable conclusion that the phenomenon is a reality.

For a while, I believed UFOs had a supernatural explanation and were not extraterrestrial vehicles. It kind of explained how UFOs seem to violate the known laws of physics on so many levels and also explain their enigmatic behavior.

My views have since changed and now I'm quite sure that they are extraterrestrial spacecraft.

The goals of ufology have pretty much remained the same through the decades. People have always wondered what was at the heart of the phenomenon, whether it be aliens or angels, etc. In the past, researchers couldn't formulate any specific theories due to a lack of information. Even today, any specifics about the nature of UFOs and their occupants is merely speculation, unless of course, you've met them.

---

Quote:

---

Space Elf said:

Quote:

---

Icelander said:
I reached the inevitable conclusion that the phenomenon is a reality.

If your conclusion was inevitable then your search was not an honest one.  This is basic and true.

---

Prior to researching the topic, I assumed the inevitable conclusion was that the evidence supporting the existence of UFOs would be as weak as the evidence supporting the existence of Bigfoot. In other words, I maintained a position of extreme skepticism and very doubtful expectations of finding anything other than anecdotal evidence.

Quote:

---

FishOilTheKid said:
What would you make of visions that are mere projections of alien craft...??

---

What do you mean, specifically? Like DMT visions or something?

---

Quote:

---

Cosmicjoker said:
I saw a UFO once, it was incredible, driving at night, totally sober, and a half disc series of circular lights as if a UFO the alien spaceship is turning on it's head lights, it hovers for a second, then wooshes incredibly fast leaving a streak of light for a second covering the whole sky, faster then I even a shooting star, def faster then earth made air or space craft.

---

Quote:

---

XeR0 said:
As a scientist, I should accept the fact that UFO's are a possibility...especially considering the amount of cases stating that many masses in may parts of the world say they saw something out of the ordinary. What sickens me about most (if not all) UFO groups, is how they lack the enthusiasm to grab an HD camera, go on the road, and fucking look for them! Make a documentary or something.

I mean come on! People have been chasing the weather for crying out loud. Something so intriguing as extra-terrestrial beings in advanced space-craft and you'd think SOMEONE had the bright idea of doing the same. People have been begging for proof and all they have is cellphone quality videos made by bystanders with questionable content. Photos are completely unreliable due to the ease of photo manipulation.

I 90% believe they exist but there's that 10% that nags me every time: I need to see one for myself.

---

I am not that up on technology. Are you saying footage from a HD cameras is less fakeable than from cell phone?

I know this--that most of the youtube videos that seem to show 'convincing-looking' UFOS are called fake fake fake now, BECAUSE it is very easy, apparently to use software to create the illusion

I asked one person who said that this video was hoax and bragged about how he can di it dead easy IF he could fake some of the UFO film footage that is PRE-computers with the easily available software, and he came back quick with 'of COURSE!'--so then I said so HOW then can you know this is fake? And he never. get it? replied

Quote:

---

zzripz said:
I am not that up on technology. Are you saying footage from a HD cameras is less fakeable than from cell phone?

I know this--that most of the youtube videos that seem to show 'convincing-looking' UFOS are called fake fake fake now, BECAUSE it is very easy, apparently to use software to create the illusion

I asked one person who said that this video was hoax and bragged about how he can di it dead easy IF he could fake some of the UFO film footage that is PRE-computers with the easily available software, and he came back quick with 'of COURSE!'--so then I said so HOW then can you know this is fake? And he never. get it? replied

---

I totally agree. However, I'm more referring to the ways some UFO groups can improve their chances of getting their point across. I'm sure some of you are familiar with a show on the History Channel called "UFO Hunters". That show is THE WORST display of UFO hunting I know. The group will spend an hour theorizing how something can be faked or mistaken for a UFO only to realize in the end that such scenarios were impossible in the first place because of an obvious variable.

In one episode, they were documenting military personnel guarding a nuclear facility. They chased this orange light into the forest and then it disappeared. The "scientist" in the UFO group tried to rule in the possibility of the light from the lighthouse near the facility as being mistaken for a UFO. They did all sorts of photographic measurements, making a detailed model, re-enacting the whole scenario...for over an hour. Only to find out in the end that a lighthouse doesn't shine anywhere but out into sea because a concrete block permanently blocks light from shining onto land.

My point is: they can do infinitely better than that.

Quote:

---

FishOilTheKid said:
Right, or spontaneous visions while sober.  I had what I think was a vision of a craft as it looked superimposed over reality like the imagery was controlled from my subjective experience.  But, I don't know what the message was and what this might have to say about the existence of material beings and craft.  A vision of a craft intelligently presented conjured from the subjective experience says what about the UFO phenomenon??  That there exists some intelligent force that is using a projection to convince people of the real thing??  This seems odd to me like obscuring the Truth with the Truth or something like a false flag op.

---

Quote:

---

zzripz said:

Quote:

---

Cosmicjoker said:
I saw a UFO once, it was incredible, driving at night, totally sober, and a half disc series of circular lights as if a UFO the alien spaceship is turning on it's head lights, it hovers for a second, then wooshes incredibly fast leaving a streak of light for a second covering the whole sky, faster then I even a shooting star, def faster then earth made air or space craft.

---

I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say "half disc series of circular lights as if a UFO the alien spaceship is turning on it's head lights" can you re-explain it in more detail? How close were they and did it affect your car...and did you feel in a dreamy state when you saw this?

---

Quote:

---

zzripz said:


I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say "half disc series of circular lights as if a UFO the alien spaceship is turning on it's head lights" can you re-explain it in more detail? How close were they and did it affect your car...and did you feel in a dreamy state when you saw this?

---

Quote:

---

It wasn't a dream state at all, I've seen plenty of visions not on drugs, I can tell the difference between and vision of say an angel and something physically in the physical universe that was most likely being tracked on radar, by the local FAA.

---

Quote:

---

I assume it was a disc shape, but only saw half of the disc, it will lit up by a series of circle lights on the edge of the disc, that is the best I can explain it... it looked like a space ship... before they zoomed off, it was way far off in the sky, who knows two miles or so... the point is it was far out in my field of view while driving, but close enough I could see it was a ship and had the lights... it didn't effect the car out at all... I was sure I saw an alien ship, and was spooked a little, so just constrated on driving and went over the memory in my head over and over, to burn it into my brain.

---

Quote:

---

zzripz said:


So what ya think?

---

I think these are fun ideas to entertain, but it seems like a mistake to form, or submit to, complex belief systems based on little more than questions, conjecture, and hope.

Quote:

---

zzripz said:

Quote:

---

zzripz said:


I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say "half disc series of circular lights as if a UFO the alien spaceship is turning on it's head lights" can you re-explain it in more detail? How close were they and did it affect your car...and did you feel in a dreamy state when you saw this?

---

Quote:

---

It wasn't a dream state at all, I've seen plenty of visions not on drugs, I can tell the difference between and vision of say an angel and something physically in the physical universe that was most likely being tracked on radar, by the local FAA.

---

You dont dig what I meant. I was not implying you imagined it in a dreamy state. I was asking that because reports I have heard where people REALLY experience seeing UFOs talk about how there happens a very strange effect all round---eg., that animal, and insect noises would stop--when the UFO was present, as if time had stopped. Some speculate that around the craft it affects our sense os spacetime in some experiences. That is why I was asking you for more detail

Quote:

---

I assume it was a disc shape, but only saw half of the disc, it will lit up by a series of circle lights on the edge of the disc, that is the best I can explain it... it looked like a space ship... before they zoomed off, it was way far off in the sky, who knows two miles or so... the point is it was far out in my field of view while driving, but close enough I could see it was a ship and had the lights... it didn't effect the car out at all... I was sure I saw an alien ship, and was spooked a little, so just constrated on driving and went over the memory in my head over and over, to burn it into my brain.

---

Very interesting. Have you any experiences of seeing anything as a child?

---

Quote:

---

Cosmicjoker said:


Well all I can say, is that it had an effect on my motivation to learn about the UFO and alien evidence and experience... so the experience inspired me to learn more... I can to the conclusions that aliens that travel to this planet are being elusive on purpose, they are giving us a chance to evolve while only helping us to a certain degree. I realized that for any species in our universe to develop interstallar travel, they would have an advanced form of ethics based on oneness of all matter and consciousness... so they are not a threat, but a help... and who knows, maybe if it gets bad enough of earth, they will just finally have had enough of our strubborness to not evolve into a collective, and just reveal themselves and walk us through it step by step as a sort of interstallar guru race.

As a child I don't remember any experience with aliens or UFOs at all. I have seen incredible visions in the sky, but as far as objects, only shooting stars, meteors, the sun, the moon, the satallites and so on... the aliens spaceship was really a once in a lifetime experience for me... and I long to have another one... I find myself always praying when I look up at the stars, and even saying a loud with company, "let tonight be amazing UFO night!" it hasn't worked yet... the one time I saw it, it was totally unexpected... and before that I believed in UFOs, but never really asked to see one, or tried to see one... only after my experience did I do that...


I hope we better understand each other now... was that clear?

---

Yes, clear
Cant remember if your also open to the idea that some of these UFOs and occupants could be spirits, fairies?

Are you familiar with Robert Hasting's research which reveals how UFOs have actively thwarted nuclear weapons capabilities, and in some instances cause them to activate?

Also, if I was to recommend some way you may experience UFOs, I would recommend magic mushrooms, and ayahuasca. Ever seen any of Pablo Amaringo's painting which show visions of UFOs, and contact with their occupants, after drinking the sacred brew?

Quote:

---

blewmeanie said:

Quote:

---

zzripz said:


So what ya think?

---

I think these are fun ideas to entertain, but it seems like a mistake to form, or submit to, complex belief systems based on little more than questions, conjecture, and hope.

---

Quote:

---

Seanfu said:

Quote:

---

blewmeanie said:

Quote:

---

zzripz said:


So what ya think?

---

I think these are fun ideas to entertain, but it seems like a mistake to form, or submit to, complex belief systems based on little more than questions, conjecture, and hope.

---

Cave paintings of disks in the sky and footage of crafts moving in ways that do not align to our physics are enough for me to think they are out there.

---

Like I said, cool to think about, but it's probably not healthy to form elaborated belief structures around what is basically just an interesting possibility.

Unless you really want to.

Quote:

---

Seanfu said:
Cave paintings of disks in the sky and footage of crafts moving in ways that do not align to our physics are enough for me to think they are out there.

---

Quote:

---

zzripz said:

Quote:

---

Cosmicjoker said:


Well all I can say, is that it had an effect on my motivation to learn about the UFO and alien evidence and experience... so the experience inspired me to learn more... I can to the conclusions that aliens that travel to this planet are being elusive on purpose, they are giving us a chance to evolve while only helping us to a certain degree. I realized that for any species in our universe to develop interstallar travel, they would have an advanced form of ethics based on oneness of all matter and consciousness... so they are not a threat, but a help... and who knows, maybe if it gets bad enough of earth, they will just finally have had enough of our strubborness to not evolve into a collective, and just reveal themselves and walk us through it step by step as a sort of interstallar guru race.

As a child I don't remember any experience with aliens or UFOs at all. I have seen incredible visions in the sky, but as far as objects, only shooting stars, meteors, the sun, the moon, the satallites and so on... the aliens spaceship was really a once in a lifetime experience for me... and I long to have another one... I find myself always praying when I look up at the stars, and even saying a loud with company, "let tonight be amazing UFO night!" it hasn't worked yet... the one time I saw it, it was totally unexpected... and before that I believed in UFOs, but never really asked to see one, or tried to see one... only after my experience did I do that...


I hope we better understand each other now... was that clear?

---

Yes, clear
Cant remember if your also open to the idea that some of these UFOs and occupants could be spirits, fairies?

Are you familiar with Robert Hasting's research which reveals how UFOs have actively thwarted nuclear weapons capabilities, and in some instances cause them to activate?

Also, if I was to recommend some way you may experience UFOs, I would recommend magic mushrooms, and ayahuasca. Ever seen any of Pablo Amaringo's painting which show visions of UFOs, and contact with their occupants, after drinking the sacred brew?

---

Quote:

---

Right, or spontaneous visions while sober.  I had what I think was a vision of a craft as it looked superimposed over reality like the imagery was controlled from my subjective experience.  But, I don't know what the message was and what this might have to say about the existence of material beings and craft.  A vision of a craft intelligently presented conjured from the subjective experience says what about the UFO phenomenon??  That there exists some intelligent force that is using a projection to convince people of the real thing??  This seems odd to me like obscuring the Truth with the Truth or something like a false flag op.

---

Quote:

---

...when recounting them...which is why I usually do not share such experiences, and try not to interpret them symbolically.

---

Quote:

---

FishOilTheKid said:

Quote:

---

...when recounting them...which is why I usually do not share such experiences, and try not to interpret them symbolically.

---

I hear you.  It just leaves a lingering, 'what to make of it?'  And after this something was directing my attention 'teaching' me different things while I was sitting in the jungle.  I really haven't talked about it with anyone in person.  Sharing this here in the context of this thread is much different than trying to talk about it with peers in person.

Quote:

---

Oh definitely, people here are always game for my crazy accounts!

Quote:

---

Its as if this intelligence wanted me to know that it has something to do with the UFO phenomenon.  And that it could very easily become part of my intimate experience to lead my observation around in different ways for different reasons.

---

What about the idea that UFO's are a sort of symbolic representation of the depths of the human psyche itself -- even of the Soul?  The idea is that we have become so alienated from the Mystery at the depths of our being that we project the Mystery outward.

Quote:

---

What about the idea that UFO's are a sort of symbolic representation of the depths of the human psyche itself -- even of the Soul?  The idea is that we have become so alienated from the Mystery at the depths of our being that we project the Mystery outward.

---

Quote:

---

FishOilTheKid said:

Quote:

---

What about the idea that UFO's are a sort of symbolic representation of the depths of the human psyche itself -- even of the Soul?  The idea is that we have become so alienated from the Mystery at the depths of our being that we project the Mystery outward.

---

Yes, I have heard of this.  Are you suggesting that all this is coming from me being alienated from the Mystery at the depths of my being.  That this intelligence was in fact 'me' somehow?  What exactly are you saying?

That was my original stance.  But they in the last two years have not given me that 'out.'  They want me to know its real, whatever they are.

---

Quote:

---

NWlight said:
y'all make me lol

---

Quote:

---

Lion said:

Quote:

---

FishOilTheKid said:

Quote:

---

What about the idea that UFO's are a sort of symbolic representation of the depths of the human psyche itself -- even of the Soul?  The idea is that we have become so alienated from the Mystery at the depths of our being that we project the Mystery outward.

---

Yes, I have heard of this.  Are you suggesting that all this is coming from me being alienated from the Mystery at the depths of my being.  That this intelligence was in fact 'me' somehow?  What exactly are you saying?

That was my original stance.  But they in the last two years have not given me that 'out.'  They want me to know its real, whatever they are.

---

I'm not saying anything, I have no idea!  Just thought it was interesting because the two motifs seem connected.  Maybe they aren't.  I don't have much of an understanding of what you're going through but it's fascinating and disturbing to hear about.

---