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OfflineEarly Cuyler
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Fluoxetine and Psilocybin
    #14824796 - 07/25/11 11:37 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I've recently been prescribed Prozac to treat a long lasting depression. I'm getting mixed messages about whether or not Prozac will diminish/damage anything when tripping on mushrooms. My research through the internet has been largely inconclusive. I have yet to find any real evidence.

Does anyone know of any sources of testing done on it or any first hand experience?

I realize that antidepressants take up to a month to actually take effect. I'd like to continue to trip, but if mixing the drugs can cause any damage or completely diminish the effects then I won't be continuing my use of mushrooms.


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Offlineiggi
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: Early Cuyler]
    #14824835 - 07/25/11 11:43 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Man-made medicines x.x

Question:
which is more profitable for a pharmaceutical company: Create a medicine that cures you completely after one does OR create a medicine that requires a steady stream to keep you "normal"

All those synthetic drugs damage your liver, look into some natural medicines/solutions before ingesting something that was made by people with only profit in mind.


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Where oh where have the little shrooms gone?

My Trip Reports:


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OfflineEarly Cuyler
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: iggi]
    #14824882 - 07/25/11 11:53 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I gladly give them my money. Whatever it takes to cure my depression.

Don't think I haven't done my research or tried alternatives. It's taking me a long time to finally decide to try antidepressants. The damage I'm worried about is anything involving my serotonin receptors, I should have been more specific.


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Offlineshakleford
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: Early Cuyler]
    #14824916 - 07/25/11 11:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I am on Fluoxetine and have tripped once since it's gotten into my system, so to speak. The trip went really well. I was only on 10mg at the time, and tripped an 8th. I don't know if that helps you with your decision, but I plan to trip for sure. One this is for sure, acid won't work on you - fluoxetine makes lds ineffective, but that's for a different forum!


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InvisibleLucyLove

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 6,863
Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: shakleford]
    #14824926 - 07/26/11 12:01 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Don't take any prescription medication for a week before tripping.
Also at low doses psilocybin can be a treatment for depression.


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Is this real


Edited by LucyLove (07/26/11 12:02 AM)


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OfflineEarly Cuyler
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: shakleford]
    #14825027 - 07/26/11 12:24 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks shakleford, that is most helpful information. How long were you taking it before you tripped? I did want to try LSD soon, so that's quite a bummer.

LucyLove, I heard that cutting at doses for more than a few days can create withdrawal symptoms.


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InvisibleLucyLove

Registered: 05/15/11
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: Early Cuyler]
    #14825047 - 07/26/11 12:30 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Early Cuyler said:
Thanks shakleford, that is most helpful information. How long were you taking it before you tripped? I did want to try LSD soon, so that's quite a bummer.

LucyLove, I heard that cutting at doses for more than a few days can create withdrawal symptoms.



SSRIs can reduce the effects and I'm sure can also damage your serotonin receptors.
Take a break from them till your withdrawals are done then eat shroomies..

Psilocybin Mushrooms, Fluoxetine, Cannabis
LSD & Fluoxetine


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Is this real


Edited by LucyLove (07/26/11 12:31 AM)


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: LucyLove]
    #14825055 - 07/26/11 12:32 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LucyLove said:
Don't take any prescription medication for a week before tripping.
Also at low doses psilocybin can be a treatment for depression.




Yeah, this is horrible advice due to SSRI discontinuation syndrome...

Fluoxetine (i.e. Prozac) basically binds to the same receptors that tryptamine-based psychedelics do...
This includes psilocin, LSD, DMT...

There's nothing special about the pharmacodynamics of LSD which will make Prozac prevent its trip any more than it will psilocin...

IME, there's 3 things you can do to trip on psychedelics while taking SSRIs:

1. Skip your SSRI dose the night before you trip. CONTINUE YOUR REGIMEN THE NIGHT OF YOUR TRIP.
SSRIs have a very short half life, so this takes advantage of that.
Also, there is very little danger in this. People miss a dose of their SSRI all the time here or there.

2. Piracetam. Or any of the -racetam drugs. This should safely potentiate the psychedelic slightly. (People estimate as much as 35%.)

3. Take more.

I cannot comment on potential damage to serotonin receptors.

I do know that in the case of MDMA, SSRIs have been shown to eliminate the neurotoxicity associated with the drug.
(Although this is potentially a dangerous combination and deserves its own post/thread.)

But in terms of tryptamine-based psychedelics + SSRIs, I'm not sure there's been medical research done into potential neurotoxicity.

Anyways, combining 1 + 2 + 3 above, I've gotten an ex-gf of mine to experience MDMA when she never could before...
As well as to trip off a small amount of mushrooms.
YMMV.

:fasted:


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InvisibleLucyLove

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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14825069 - 07/26/11 12:35 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:

LucyLove said:
Don't take any prescription medication for a week before tripping.
Also at low doses psilocybin can be a treatment for depression.




Yeah, this is horrible advice due to SSRI discontinuation syndrome...

Fluoxetine (i.e. Prozac) basically binds to the same receptors that tryptamine-based psychedelics do...
This includes psilocin, LSD, DMT...

There's nothing special about the pharmacodynamics of LSD which will make Prozac prevent its trip any more than it will psilocin...

IME, there's 3 things you can do to trip on psychedelics while taking SSRIs:

1. Skip your SSRI dose the night before you trip. CONTINUE YOUR REGIMEN THE NIGHT OF YOUR TRIP.
SSRIs have a very short half life, so this takes advantage of that.
Also, there is very little danger in this. People miss a dose of their SSRI all the time here or there.

2. Piracetam. Or any of the -racetam drugs. This should safely potentiate the psychedelic slightly. (People estimate as much as 35%.)

3. Take more.

I cannot comment on potential damage to serotonin receptors.

I do know that in the case of MDMA, SSRIs have been shown to eliminate the neurotoxicity associated with the drug.
(Although this is potentially a dangerous combination and deserves its own post/thread.)

But in terms of tryptamine-based psychedelics + SSRIs, I'm not sure there's been medical research done into potential neurotoxicity.

Anyways, combining 1 + 2 + 3 above, I've gotten an ex-gf of mine to experience MDMA when she never could before...
As well as to trip off a small amount of mushrooms.
YMMV.

:fasted:



From what I have heard LSD reacts on the 5-HT2A receptors and I also heard SSRIs stay in your system for up to two weeks depending on how much you take.


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Is this real


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,387
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: LucyLove]
    #14825083 - 07/26/11 12:38 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

All tryptamine-based psychedelics (and some of the more visual phenethylamines as well) act on the 5-HT2A receptors.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

LSD affects a large number of the G protein coupled receptors, including all dopamine receptor subtypes, and all adrenoreceptor subtypes, as well as many others. LSD binds to most serotonin receptor subtypes except for 5-HT3 and 5-HT4. However, most of these receptors are affected at too low affinity to be sufficiently activated by the brain concentration of approximately 10–20 nM.[77] In humans, recreational doses of LSD can affect 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, 5-HT2C, 5-HT5A, and 5-HT6 receptors.[1][78] 5-HT5B receptors, which are not present in humans, also have a high affinity for LSD.[79] The psychedelic effects of LSD are attributed to its strong partial agonist effects at 5-HT2A receptors as specific 5-HT2A agonists are psychedelics and largely 5-HT2A specific antagonists block the psychedelic activity of LSD.[77] Exactly how this produces the drug's effects is unknown, but it is thought that it works by increasing glutamate release in the cerebral cortex and therefore excitation in this area, specifically in layers IV and V.[80] LSD, like many other drugs, has been shown to activate DARPP-32-related pathways.[81]




You can find something similar for psilocin too... Just getting you started... :smile:


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: ifoundwaldo] * 1
    #14825085 - 07/26/11 12:38 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:

LucyLove said:
Don't take any prescription medication for a week before tripping.
Also at low doses psilocybin can be a treatment for depression.




Yeah, this is horrible advice due to SSRI discontinuation syndrome...

Fluoxetine (i.e. Prozac) basically binds to the same receptors that tryptamine-based psychedelics do...
This includes psilocin, LSD, DMT...

There's nothing special about the pharmacodynamics of LSD which will make Prozac prevent its trip any more than it will psilocin...

IME, there's 3 things you can do to trip on psychedelics while taking SSRIs:

1. Skip your SSRI dose the night before you trip. CONTINUE YOUR REGIMEN THE NIGHT OF YOUR TRIP.
SSRIs have a very short half life, so this takes advantage of that.
Also, there is very little danger in this. People miss a dose of their SSRI all the time here or there.

2. Piracetam. Or any of the -racetam drugs. This should safely potentiate the psychedelic slightly. (People estimate as much as 35%.)

3. Take more.

I cannot comment on potential damage to serotonin receptors.

I do know that in the case of MDMA, SSRIs have been shown to eliminate the neurotoxicity associated with the drug.
(Although this is potentially a dangerous combination and deserves its own post/thread.)

But in terms of tryptamine-based psychedelics + SSRIs, I'm not sure there's been medical research done into potential neurotoxicity.

Anyways, combining 1 + 2 + 3 above, I've gotten an ex-gf of mine to experience MDMA when she never could before...
As well as to trip off a small amount of mushrooms.
YMMV.

:fasted:





Some good information, and some terrible information.

Antidepressants have very long half life, most being longer than 24 hours.  Coming off them for one day will make little if any difference.

Psilocin turns on your 5-HT2A receptors.  SSRIs cause a huge buildup of serotonin in your brain which constantly turns on, among other things, the 5-HT2A receptors.  This constant and increased activation of these receptors causes a significant tolerance, which will significantly reduce your ability to trip on any substance.  Tolerance doesn't go away in a day.  You not only have to wait for the SSRI to leave your system, but y ou also have to wait for the tolerance of these receptors to diminish.

However, you can still trip.  You will just require a lot more.  2-5 times more, depending on the dose.  Even on a the lowest dose, don't expect a good trip under 5g.

But you're right, there's no reason SSRIs should effect LSD more than mushrooms or mescaline, or any other psychedelic.


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


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Posts: 8,387
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: BothHands]
    #14825096 - 07/26/11 12:41 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I guess I do stand corrected on the half life, but recommending a range of 2-5 times is a better solution? Should he just chuck a dart and pick a number?


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: ifoundwaldo] * 1
    #14825109 - 07/26/11 12:44 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Depends on his dose.  I don't recommend he try to trip at all while on SSRIs.  I would recommend he come off them for a few weeks.  But I just wanted to point out that it is still possible to trip.


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OfflineEarly Cuyler
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: Early Cuyler]
    #14825117 - 07/26/11 12:48 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

This is all very interesting and helpful information. Thank you.

Over 5 grams for a good trip? That's gonna kill my wallet. That's going to be quite the nuisance.
I may have to lay off the mushies for awhile until I get myself in order.


Edited by Early Cuyler (07/26/11 12:48 AM)


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: Early Cuyler]
    #14825149 - 07/26/11 12:55 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yep, as someone mentioned earlier, it's not as easy as just stopping the SSRI.  Withdrawal symptoms can be pretty terrible.  I stopped Fluoxamine (a bit different to fluoxetine) cold turkey, and spent 3 days puking violently, with severe hot flashes.  Not pleasant.


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: BothHands]
    #14825203 - 07/26/11 01:09 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

With regards to the statement that "Coming off them for one day will make little if any difference" also...
(BTW not trying to argue, just trying to generate a discussion...)

You are skipping one night's dose. Not just coming off them for one day. There is a difference...
Skipping a night's dose potentially allows you to dose a full 48 hours from the point you took your last SSRI dose...

In the case of Celexa (Citalopram), more than half of the SSRI (since its half-life is 35 hours) has left your body at this point.
Many other SSRIs (namely escitalopram, paroxetine, sertraline, and others) would be more than half gone from your body at that point also.

Now, Prozac (Fluoxetine) is admittedly a different story since it takes DAYS to leave your system (of which I was unaware).

"Coming off them for one day will make little if any difference"...
So... I suppose this statement is true if losing more than half of the SSRI from your system makes little if any difference... (/sarcasm)

But I will concede that Prozac is a special case.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: ifoundwaldo] * 1
    #14825313 - 07/26/11 01:36 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't make a difference.  The presence of the SSRI means nothing.  It's the downregulation of the receptors, and that takes time to be reversed.

If you take 10 grams of mushrooms every day for months, and think coming off them for 48 hours will allow you to trip properly on 4 grams, you're delusional.

It's the exact same tolerance mechanism.

Your sarcasm suggests you are trying to argue, and not just engage in light hearted discussion.  So if you'd like to do that, I suggest you do some research before pretending you know anything.


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Invisiblebabz89
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: BothHands]
    #14825773 - 07/26/11 03:45 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

The only thing I really know from experience about prescription anti depressants is to NOT consume DEPRESSANTS i.e pot, alcohol, opiates etc. Using downers on an anti downer turns the anti downer into a super downer. Some can handle mixing sometimes in heavy doses but I know from experience this is a BAD idea. As far as psychedelics and there interactions unfortunately I can't say I was never dumb enough to mix the two. I would personally do a 48hr detox to make sure your body's clear (drink lots of water and eat bitter/sour fruits and veggies and dose after two full nights of rest) then when you come down immediately begin your regimen of meds though detoxing may not be easy (my gma wigged out when she missed her dose by like 30 min) and I agree with LL psychotropics can aid in chemical imbalance IME and can help open channels in your mind to help you deal with your emotions better on your own.


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"When the war of love overcomes the love of war, the world will truely be a better places. One love"Bob Marley


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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: babz89]
    #14827194 - 07/26/11 01:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

This is all very difficult for me to take in and to understand and to make sense of, I wish more research had been done on these matters.

Here's what I do know... my wife's had depression all her life shes also suffered migraine cluster type headache's since childhood.  Shes 53 years of age and incredibly shes now FREE of her debilitating headache bane and this is due to the magical curing effects of the chemical psilocybin shes been using since spring 2010, she takes .5g of semilanceata mushrooms once every week and it works like a charm for her.

I asked wife only just the other day if she still gets her depressions and she said "no.. not yet! not so far this year!  I cant even remember waking up in the middle of the night so far this year and with that horrible depression like I used to experience" she said.

I maintained that psilocybin was responsible for this and wife agreed that it must be so!!! I asked what Prozac and all the rest of the stuff shes tried had done in comparison to Magic Mushrooms and she told me it had done NOTHING.. including not even the supposed miracle anti depression medication Prozac.

And yet even after discovering the amazing healing property's of psilocybin, my wife still takes a daily dose of 3g (maximum dose = 4g she tells me!) of prescription Pizotifen or Sumatripan anti-headache medication??? (this really works she says and shes insistent that life would be hell without it) she says she needs it to carry on with life each day.

Here's the main point folks!!! wife still gets psycadelic effects on a tiny mild .5g mushroom dose (I think she enjoys the experience and she describes it to me as seeing brilliant yellow and red sparkles with eyes closed).  I wish she would take a bit more? lol I'm sure it wont do harm.

So in our experience it seems that tryp-tans (if thats what pizotifen is?) dont stop psycadelic trips but they help to stop headaches?.

As long as combination use of psilocybin and Pizotifen type Tryp-tens dont cause harm to wife then EVERY-THINGS GREAT.  All we need now is for the research chemists to work for humanity's sake and to forget a tiny little bit about money and profit.  lets have some answers quick ffs.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Fluoxetine and Psilocybin [Re: fantasticfungus] * 1
    #14827248 - 07/26/11 02:09 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Well, pizotifen is a 5-HT2A antagonist.  This means it binds to the receptors that psychedelics work on, and blocks action on these receptors.

But there are several reasons she could still be able to trip.

1. If the pizotifen has a lower affinity for the receptors than the particular psychedelic, the psychedelic will just knock the pizotifen off the receptor.

2. Just like an agonist causes receptor tolerance via overstimulation of the receptors, an antagonist can cause a receptor sensitivity via understimulation.


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