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OfflineMan5
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Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death)
    #14668518 - 06/25/11 01:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

When you've dissolved so far, you see one symbol such as the triangle.  It dominates everything, from open and closed eye visuals to every thought, breath, taste, smell, sight you ever experience.  Suddenly, you feel as if you are experiencing every single thought in the universe all at once, and you actually become eternal -- all places, things, thoughts, people, times, and everything else all at once.  You are one with everything that is, ever was, and ever will be, and as confusing as it is it makes perfect sense.

Is THAT ego death?

Is THAT a level 5 trip?

Discuss.  :smile:


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OfflineMarckymarc
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Man5]
    #14668632 - 06/25/11 02:34 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Doesn't sound like ego death to me.  Ego death is usually a terrifying realization that you are slipping away into nothingness and will cease to exist--then when you break through you enter into peace, but the "you" or "I" part of you no longer exists. You are awareness without a sense of self. You have no identity as an independent soul. You don't exist....you're aware...except it's not "you" that's aware.


Edited by Marckymarc (06/25/11 02:36 AM)


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OfflineMan5
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Marckymarc]
    #14668664 - 06/25/11 02:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Well actually that's kinda what happens as you enter this state I'm referring to.  It's terrifying at first but then when you're fully in it with no escape it brings you peace.  Eternal knowledge where you become absolutely nothing yet absolutely everything that ever existed all at the same time.


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OfflineMarckymarc
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Man5]
    #14668705 - 06/25/11 03:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You know what they say, "If you have to ask, 'Was this ego death?', it probably wasn't."

Quote:

It's terrifying at first but then when you're fully in it with no escape it brings you peace.




In ego death there is no you. You don't exist anymore. Not you kind of don't exist anymore...you really don't exist anymore.

Sounds like you had a beautiful unity-consciousness experience.


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OfflineCactii
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Marckymarc]
    #14668721 - 06/25/11 03:10 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ego death is impossible. The ego is the awareness of the self. The self exists through time and with the aid of the memory, acts as a single collection point for all actions and thoughts ever experienced. The ego is the boundary that separates these thoughts and experiences from other selves. It's what makes the self aware that what it experienced happened to itself. If you dissolve that boundary then how can the self determine what is and isn't an experience belonging to it? The ego and the self go hand in hand, if you experienced something then you had an ego whilst doing it.


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OfflineMarckymarc
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Cactii]
    #14668759 - 06/25/11 03:24 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cactii said:
Ego death is impossible. The ego is the awareness of the self....




Not impossible. From your own definition, when the awareness of the self disappears that's when ego death would occur. You say that's impossible, yet that's exactly what happens during the event.

Also, during ego death you do lose your memory....of everything you ever were.


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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Marckymarc]
    #14668834 - 06/25/11 03:46 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

yah in my experience ego death is just that death you literally feel like your going to die. and you can either fight it and come out of it an write it off as a bad trip or let it take over you and come out the other side realizing you didnt die and the revelations that come with that type of experience. the death isnt permanent someone on the boards referred to it like a "reset" button it really seems to put things back into perspective and give you a long forgotten angle at looking at things.

but yah if you have to ask if it was ego death it likely wasnt. you would know. it scares the hell out of most people.


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OfflineCactii
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Marckymarc]
    #14669106 - 06/25/11 07:01 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Marckymarc said:
Quote:

Cactii said:
Ego death is impossible. The ego is the awareness of the self....




Not impossible. From your own definition, when the awareness of the self disappears that's when ego death would occur. You say that's impossible, yet that's exactly what happens during the event.

Also, during ego death you do lose your memory....of everything you ever were.




I don't mean having a conscious awareness of the self. Having an ego of some description is essential to have an experience.


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Offlinemaiko maiko
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Cactii]
    #14669653 - 06/25/11 11:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

"ego" and "ego death" seem to be some of the most overused and misunderstood terms in the psychedelic community. just because someone uses "i" to communicate doesn't mean their "ego death" experience is invalid. it's the language involved in communicating a personal experience. perhaps "it felt" would be more accurate than "i felt" but it still conveys the idea. it may not be possible to "kill the ego" entirely because as cactii said, a self of sense is essential to having an experience, but i think most people who've had the experience of consciousness without attachment to a personal identity and the assimilation that goes along with becoming their self again would say that "ego death" is certainly possible, even if it might be better to refer to the experience as temporary ego softening, or personal identity loss.


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OfflineMarckymarc
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Cactii]
    #14670424 - 06/25/11 03:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cactii said:
Having an ego of some description is essential to have an experience.




I would disagree strongly. It's widely accepted that the ego doesn't even exist in humans until the age of 2 or 3. Newborn babies have no ego, yet they still have an awareness.

When we experience this "ego death" we are suddenly placed back into a state of pure conscious awareness that we experienced as babies before the ego was formed--the state before we formed the concept "I am me".

-


Edited by Marckymarc (06/25/11 03:18 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Marckymarc]
    #14670801 - 06/25/11 04:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

some of the distinctions are not really well defined, and one person's particular experience may not map that well onto another's, however, before losing it completely such that you cannot remember at all (and this may happen in waves anyway - amnesia- and amnesia may interdisperse with your more delicious psychedelic experience) you can have a resoundingly resonant experience like this.

much of ego death is just amnesia, or amnesia intermingling with what you have described.

while some people will waste time arguing whether you are now a member of the ego-death club,  because of difficulty mapping some particulars of their own experience which they may have validated by checking against the stories of grand trippers of the past, I would like to say that your description is lovely, and there is no doubt that you have gone as far as is possible to go before the river Lethe - amnesia.

and that is not to say that you did in fact for some moments here or there, not actually disappear - into amnesiac moments. Disappearing need not be a big struggle, and it may not be the main issue, especially since it is not memorable.

Have those who have dipped longer into Lethe lost their egos significantly more? than those who have frolicked on the shore with just a splashing of memory erasure here and there? Does it make any lasting difference in our lives?

personally I detest amnesia.
also, I make no big deal about ego. or the drama of ego loss, though I value this state of all things coming together which is immediately next to amnesia.

the terms that have made their way into this culture need review, and the emphasis on dosing to the max is a confused form of competitive materialism.


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OfflineCactii
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Marckymarc]
    #14671490 - 06/25/11 07:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Marckymarc said:
Quote:

Cactii said:
Having an ego of some description is essential to have an experience.




I would disagree strongly. It's widely accepted that the ego doesn't even exist in humans until the age of 2 or 3. Newborn babies have no ego, yet they still have an awareness.

When we experience this "ego death" we are suddenly placed back into a state of pure conscious awareness that we experienced as babies before the ego was formed--the state before we formed the concept "I am me".

-




It's also widely accepted that the brain of a baby isn't fully developed and can not store long term memories. The 'self' of a baby exists but can not contain information and for that reason a baby cannot have an ego. They are all Id, awake but subconscious and driven by instinct until the mind is capable of learning.  If psychedelics were to strip you back to that point, you wouldn't remember it so therefore you cannot retain the experience of absolute ego death.


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OfflineCactii
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Cactii]
    #14671566 - 06/25/11 08:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Sigmund Freud defined the Ego as a collection of psychic functions including memory.


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InvisibleDawks
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #14671613 - 06/25/11 08:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Man5 said:
Is THAT a level 5 trip?





"Loss of visual connection with reality, the sense of not being human or having a body". If you have no sense of your original setting than that's level 5.


Quote:

Man5 said:
Is THAT ego death?





No, ego death is death of the ego. It's when you are aware but no longer consciousness. It's one the most beautifully profound states of consciousness that a human being can have. Many people strive for ego death during meditation, this is because the ego is a filter, it changes and twists what we experience into "things" so that we can act upon our desires. When we experience ego death we just experience, appreciate, and experience things for what they truly are rather than how we would like them to be.

A newborn baby has no ego, it is simply aware - it knows not the difference between itself nor anything else, everything simply IS. A we grow older we develop our ego, it's not a bad thing though. We need the ego in order to communicate, find food and shelter and "do things". The only problem is that after a while we forget that the ego is merely a tool and we actually start to believe that things are separate from us and that all is not one. This is dangerous because it creates suffering.

Personally I've not experienced ego death from drugs, I take drugs for fun: sure they enhance my spiritual side BUT I still only take them for fun. Because of this desire my whole purpose of taking psychedelic drugs IS egotistical and therefore make true ego death very unlikely.

I have however experienced ego death through meditation. It's not something I asked for it simply came. Just experience, the blending of the observer and the observed, true awareness, no consciousness. But eventually my phone was ringing and I started to get a sense that "something is not as it should be" my ego was reborn, to help me answer the phone.

Unfortunately many people (especially those that don't truly understand the concept of the ego) confuse ego death with near ego death. Just look at this statement:

Quote:

Ego death is usually a terrifying realization that you are slipping away into nothingness and will cease to exist




Terrifying? terror is something that the ego experiences. No ego, no terror. This poster has ego death confused with near ego death.

So why is near ego death so scary? well it makes perfect sense when you think about it. What happens when you physically die? both the body and the ego cease to exist. Now over a few million years of evolution we have learned to try to keep ourselves alive at any cost, therefore we fear death as a survival trait. The brain doesn't know the difference between "ego death" or "physical death", to the brain it's the same thing, so as we approach ego death a great terror unfolds and we try very strongly to preserve the ego to cling on to who we are and preserve our life.

The thing about ego death is being ready for it, knowing that "I will die, maybe today maybe some other day." And just accepting your fate. Being able to allow yourself to die and peacefully enter that state requires great mental discipline and as I said before many people dedicate their lives to this pursuit.

That's why they say you just have to let go while tripping and embrace whatever comes to you ego death or not. I'd also like to point out that level 5 does NOT directly translate to ego death. I've experienced countless "breakthrough" DMT experiences where even though my body was gone and I was in another realm I still had a strong sense of self (ego).


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OfflineMarckymarc
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Re: Just to clarify... is THIS a level 5 experience? (ego death) [Re: Dawks]
    #14673000 - 06/26/11 02:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:

Unfortunately many people (especially those that don't truly understand the concept of the ego) confuse ego death with near ego death. Just look at this statement:

Quote:

Ego death is usually a terrifying realization that you are slipping away into nothingness and will cease to exist




Terrifying? terror is something that the ego experiences. No ego, no terror. This poster has ego death confused with near ego death.





That was my quote. I believe you misunderstood my intent and/or I should have chosen my words better. The terrifying realization part of ego death is the prelude to the experience--not the experience itself. Once ego conciseness has been transcended, of course, fear does not exist.

Everything else in your post was pretty spot on.


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