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InvisibleAliceDee
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Sandstone Patio
    #14472312 - 05/18/11 11:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So I have to finish off a project for a raised patio.  It has a downslope so how to you guys think I should form it?  I was thinking use bricks as a retaining wall and then finishing with cut pieces of sandstone on the facade...  Or should I use 2x6's? I can't figure out how the sand and aggregate wouldnt fall out the sides when taking the form off though... Any suggestions?


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InvisibleEpilson Lyrae
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #14472455 - 05/18/11 12:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've only ever used landscape timbers for the retaining wall section of what you are describing. On one really big job we used railroad ties because the slope in the yard was so dramatic but I doubt that's the case here.
Once you figure out how much drop you want in your patio in order to allow water to flow away from the house and off of the patio, you can figure the total height of your wall and dig out a 'base'.
You can do this by using a string attached to the point where the patio will meet the house and run it tight out to the edge of where the patio will be; allowing a slight drop to allow water to run off and not pool.
For the base of the landscape timber wall we drilled holes every few feet then anchored them with re bar driven through into the ground to prevent it from moving or washing out. The rest of the wall was simply spiked together with the joints staggered and dead men thrown in the wall as needed. That depends on how much slope that you have and how high the wall needs to be.
The void behind the wall can be filled with dirt or gravel then compacted sand or just compacted sand moistened and tamped as you go, depending on how much you have to fill in
Then scree it off level side to side but leave a slight drop to allow water to move away from the house or structure.
The tops of your stones should end up about the same height as the top of the retaining wall so you don't want to fill it completely with tamped sand.
Arrange your stones then 'mud' them in by putting more sand on top of them and watering it gently with a hose while brushing it in the cracks with a broom.
The same can be done by making a stone wall but I'm not current on how you would 'cement' the stones together or anchor them to keep them from washing out over time unless you were to buy task specific retaining wall stones (you can get them at about any big box home improvement store)


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"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." H.T.
I've come to believe that the heart is the filter of the enlightened mind. Epilson Lyrae


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Offlinegorgeoustess
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
    #14473368 - 05/18/11 03:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I bet that will look good but won't sandstone be too rough on bare feet?


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Invisiblenopalero
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Registered: 08/04/10
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: gorgeoustess]
    #14474196 - 05/18/11 06:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

cinder blocks on a concrete footing would be my first choice.. don't forget to add pvc pipes in the wall to release hydralic pressure from water, you don't want a dam in your damn yard...

if you're putting in sandstone flagstone i would suggest looking for crushed granite to use as a base and mortar between the rocks.. dries up hard like concrete and looks great..

don't forget about the weeds you might want to lay down a weed barrier if you're not using a concrete slab..


--------------------
the dinosaurs will be back.
only that which has passed can be predicted.
life is both a mirror and a window.

THE GRAYS HOPE TO WIN. STOP. RAINBOW NEEDED URGENTLY.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #14480433 - 05/19/11 09:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

to work with the sandstone build a retaining wall out of cast 'stone', they
interlock for some strength, as was mentioned you need to releave hydrostatic
pressure, you'll want a foot or two of aggregate behind the wall with
perforated pipe then back fill, drill through the first 2-3  courses of stone
and set rebar at least 16" into the ground, after that the lip on the stones
should secure everything, anything over 24" in height, I'd advise adding more
rebar to tie each course together




this is what it should look like behind your wall (less the deadman)



with added rebar



for the base on your patio you want M-10, it's a small aggregate with
pulverized stone, it compacts well and either spend a lot of time with a
hand tamper packing it or rent one if it's a large job, once packed and
wet it'll be about as hard as concrete unless you dig into it, edging
should be done with the plastic edging just for the retention of the
stone, once you have your patio installed you can pull your 2x4 or 2x6
batter boards

sweep your joints with sand and pack it with a packer, sweep and pack,
sweep and pack... you want it to suck up all the sand to lock everything
together, once it doesnt take anymore you're good to pull those batter
boards and backfill, make sure the edging remains





--------------------
Winter is a murderous whore -XLCaps


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InvisibleAliceDee
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14482991 - 05/20/11 08:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the responses guys!  Slight change it scope...

The retaining wall cannot have pavers, I have to use the existing 6-8" lava rocks... Should I mortar them?

Pris - Are you sure I should use plastic edging?  I'm talking the owner into using polymeric sand and it will be touching the edges, im not laying brick...

I'm thinking build section 1 (the one with lava rocks) with some forms and mortar them...  This is only a 7" retaining wall also.. and and i want the edge of the sandstone hanging over the lava rocks...

section 2 with the sandstone facade Im thinking stack the sandstone and possibly mortar... this section im digging in the ground so compaction isnt an issue...

the walkway still dont know what kind of edging to use, the left edge faces the house and has bushes, right side has grass growing...



Edited by AliceDee (05/20/11 08:58 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #14483042 - 05/20/11 08:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

even digging into the ground you'll need the M-10 base and compaction for
drainage and to prevent blocks heaving or sinking, the plastic edging is a
must because when you're vibrating the sand into the joints the pavers will
spread and make large gaps even if you're using existing soil for the edging.
the basics are the same whether it's brick or stone when doing patio, if your
sandstone isnt at least 2 inches thick then you need to set it all
onto a cement base because it's not going to handle much traffic otherwise

polymeric sand is designed for locking joints and weed control in those
joints, one of the issues with it is that if you leave any on the surface
it will adhere but it is more effective at locking things together

if you have to use the lava rock and mortar a deadman and a tie rod to
prevent it from toppling in a few years is an absolute must and again
compaction over top of that because you have to disturb soil, ties should
be placed every 2 feet, I find it easiest just to use a whole railroad tie
for the deadman and tie it with all-thread and a nut welded to a plate on
the wall end and use drilled plate for a washer and nut securing it
through the railroad tie

if I had a scanner I could upload a few pics to show you the system


--------------------
Winter is a murderous whore -XLCaps


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InvisibleAliceDee
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14483068 - 05/20/11 09:03 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I could probly use some PVC and use them as deadmen as well as acting as a weephole...??


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InvisibleAliceDee
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #14483089 - 05/20/11 09:12 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)



thats what its gonna look like, how do i keep these lava rocks from topping?  i have 2 railroad ties by the way but they are not in good shape


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #14486972 - 05/21/11 12:04 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AliceDee said:
I could probly use some PVC and use them as deadmen as well as acting as a weephole...??





nope... you want the deadman about 4'-6' into the bank, the drain needs to be
in your crushed stone up near the base of the wall


your drawing is either horrible you you need to move a lot of dirt because
you'll need to build a flat footer for the wall and if your pavers will be
on top of the wall you want to mortar them into place as well


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Winter is a murderous whore -XLCaps


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Invisiblenopalero
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Registered: 08/04/10
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Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #14494185 - 05/22/11 03:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

i would highly suggest you avoid using sand as a base.
you would be wasting your money and time because in a few years or even months, the patio will begin to shift and crack apart..
you need a solid foundation for masonry work. crushed granite does the job and is most often cheaper than calling in a cement truck and you don't use mortar, you fill in with crushed granite and you're left with a beautiful patio that will last.

dig a trench for the edging about 4" deep

hammer in rebar along the trech about 1.5 FT deep and tie that to rebar laying across the trench. careful not to hit any waterlines etc. when pounding in rebar..

next, pour in concrete mix to fill the trench, settle in the pumice stone, and finally add the mortar.

you can then find your level and lay the flagstone.

*almost any crushed stone could be used as a base but not sand, it just isn't heavy enough and washes out easy..


--------------------
the dinosaurs will be back.
only that which has passed can be predicted.
life is both a mirror and a window.

THE GRAYS HOPE TO WIN. STOP. RAINBOW NEEDED URGENTLY.


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Offlinewoodlandpatio
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Registered: 05/24/13
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #18312661 - 05/24/13 04:12 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I found this link http://www.familyhandyman.com/Resource-Center/how-to-raise-patio-pavers that could be a little help to you.


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Offlinekatypatio
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Registered: 06/16/13
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Sandstone Patio [Re: AliceDee]
    #18429071 - 06/16/13 08:28 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

A sandstone paver patio is stylistically pleasing and is easily installed. The sandstone paver patio can add value to the home. The one drawback to using sandstone instead of clay, slate or brick, is that sandstone is very easily damaged. If a sandstone paver patio is not properly maintained, the color can fade and the material itself can crumble and crack.


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