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Offlinelosfreddy
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synthesized mescaline ?
    #14462288 - 05/16/11 04:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So I keep hearing people say that they want mescaline, synthesized or extracted.  I always kept thinking that u can't synthesize mescaline, only extract it; ( synthesis is to bond more than one element like lysergic acid and diethylamide ). But I keep hearing people say that there is synthetic mescaline.

Does this mean that there r two or more elements available that when bonded together have the same formula as mescaline extracted??  If so, very cool. I'm then eager to learn more.


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: losfreddy]
    #14462309 - 05/16/11 04:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Why would anyone synthesize mescaline when it's a lot less work to extract it?

I'm sure mescaline synthesis is possible- as are a lot of things- but the idea just doesn't make sense.

A lot of people who run their mouths don't know what they're saying. :smile:


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Offlinelosfreddy
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14462727 - 05/16/11 05:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

i actually think it would be cool to b able to do that. Cactus takes many years to grow and is an effort to get all the time.  i think if u could make synthetic mescaline u could synthesis a nice phat batch as compared to a few grams from an extract. it would eliminate growing of the cactus which is a source that could run low

and apparently u can out of gallic acid
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mescaline.gallic.improvement.html
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mescaline.mannich.html

Experimental4

3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde

Gallic acid was converted to trimethylgallic acid in 80% yield by methylation with methyl sulfate5.

Trimethylgalloyl chloride was prepared in 81% yield by the action of phosphorus pentachloride on trimethylgallic acid.1 The acid chloride was purified by distillation and redistillation under reduced pressure; bp 131-133°C/2 mmHg; mp 83-84°C.

Rosenmund reduction of 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzoyl chloride (trimethylgalloyl chloride) was carried out as described1 using 52 g of 3% Pd-BaSO4 catalyst per mole of acid chloride. Dry xylene was the solvent. The product was recovered by removal of the catalyst by filtration, stripping off the xylene and fractional distillation of the residue under reduced pressure. A forerun of pyrogallol trimethyl ether, bp 82-100°C/0.1 mmHg, was obtained, and 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde was collected as the fraction boiling at 106-112°C/0.1 mmHg. After crystallization from alcohol the aldehyde melted at 73-74°C; yield 59%.

3,4,5-Trimethoxy-β-nitrostyrene

This compound was prepared by the procedure of Späth2 in 82.7% yield; mp 121-122°C after recrystallization from alcohol.

Mescaline Hydrochloride

Reduction of 7.2 g (0.03 mole) of 3,4,5-trimethoxy-β-nitrostyrene with 5.7 g. of lithium aluminum hydride was carried out as described3a for 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy-β-nitrostyrene. The yield of mescaline picrate, mp 210-212°C, was 11.4 g (86%).

After recrystallization from alcohol, the picrate melted at 214-216°C; reported2 216-218°C. The mescaline picrate was converted to mescaline hydrochloride as described3a in 92% yield; mp 180-181°C (after recrystallization from alcohol); reported1 181°C.





Edited by losfreddy (05/16/11 05:51 PM)


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Invisibledrr
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: losfreddy]
    #14463942 - 05/16/11 09:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I think people are probably confused about synthesis vs extraction.

But I'm sure mescaline can be synthesized.


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InvisibleDawks
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr]
    #14463988 - 05/16/11 09:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Mescaline Synthesis

You people seriously never heard of PIHKAL?


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Invisibledrr
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Dawks]
    #14465293 - 05/17/11 12:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
Mescaline Synthesis

You people seriously never heard of PIHKAL?



:facepalm:
I own a copy.


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: losfreddy]
    #14465352 - 05/17/11 12:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Of course mescaline can be synthesized. The psychedelic phenethylamines that Shulgin invented and discussed in PiHKAL were created by synthesizing mescaline then tweaking it's chemical structure to get new compounds that are very similar to mescaline but different in very important ways.


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Offlinelosfreddy
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: muistrue]
    #14498584 - 05/23/11 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

in the PIHKAL above, 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde,  nitromethane  and  cyclohexylamine


3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde is available on ebay.  expensive thou..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360218065670&hlp=false

nitromethane is an engine fuel if im not mistaken, available @ 100% purity online... (made from propane and nitric acid i think)...

cyclohexylamine can b bought from chem suppliers online.. (made from cyclohexane which is made thru organic synthesis of benzene with hydroiodic acid?)

these chems dissolved in acetic acid (vinegar),  heated for 1 hour... mixed with water (which make crystal fall out); filter crystals,  redissolve and recrystallize in methanol.. (<- makes beta-nitro-3,4,5-trimethoxystyrene)..

reflux above crystals in ether + Lithium aluminium hydride (available online)..  can b refluxed in Soxhlet extraction condenser- 48 hours... cool,  add dilute Sulfuric Acid (kills hydride and separates into two layers)...  save aqueous layer; (double wash with ether and separate again)..  then to the water, add potassium sodium tartrate (a salt) with Sodium Hydroxide (hardware store)..  then add Dichloromethane (solvent) to water to extract;  evaporate/ vacuum to get residue..  distill  (not sure in what) to get white oil..  dissolve in isopropyl alcohol and add Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid); then it says "The white crystals that formed were diluted with.." ether, removed by filtration dried to 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine hydrochloride (mescaline hcl)..


--

the 'An Improved Synthesis of Mescaline' on erwoid above uses Gallic acid converted

"Gallic acid is found in almost all plants. Plants known for their high gallic acid content include gallnuts, grapes, tea, hops and oak bark. "


ither way as u can tell.  I am interested in learning exactly how this process goes


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OfflineRemix
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: losfreddy]
    #14499166 - 05/23/11 03:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Mescaline can definitely be synthesized but I'm willing to bet that anyone who thinks they have tried synthetic mescaline has probably just had an RC. I've never come across ANY dealers who could get legitimate mescaline.

Most people I know of who have tried mescaline haven't had pure mescaline - they've either had peyote or some other active cacti.


--------------------


Edited by Remix (05/23/11 03:46 PM)


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Invisibledrr
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: Remix]
    #14500287 - 05/23/11 07:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I always hear people's stories about taking 'mescaline' in pressed pills or microdots. I got tired of explaining to them that it is unlikely and maybe even impossible. So now I just say "thats nice" and give them a high five.


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr]
    #14500695 - 05/23/11 08:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I've seen RC dealers with mescaline HCL on the menu a couple years ago but all the pure mescaline I've done was extracted. It's pretty easy to acquire nice pure white mescaline HCL crystals yourself and it's really fun too.


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Offlineeqt146
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: muistrue]
    #14500778 - 05/23/11 09:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

When you do a mescaline extraction, you're actually getting a mix of various alkaloids, including mescaline. Many of these are psychoactive as well. That's why a Peyote trip, San Pedro trip, and Peruvian Torch trip are slightly qualitatively different. They have a somewhat different blend of alkaloids. It's also why a trip on extracted mescaline or cactus material sometimes seems to come in "waves". Some of the alkaloids kick in faster than others so the trip isn't necessarily linear in intensity.


If you want PURE mescaline, synthesis is still probably the least practical way to get it. If you do enough research, there's probably someone who has profiled and analyzed all of the alkaloids in mescaline cacti. If you were to seperate all of the alkaloids with a chromatography coloum, you could probably use this information to isolate only pure mescaline. This would definitely be easier than a synthesis.

There's a reason you don't see much mescaline on the streets. Extraction doesn't give very good yields in relation to the amount you need to trip, and synthesis is just too hard and impractical.


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Invisibledrr
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: eqt146]
    #14500830 - 05/23/11 09:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You can bet if I took the time to extract pure mescaline, I wouldn't be selling any of it to anyone - I'd treasure it. Free doses for loved ones only.


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr]
    #14500863 - 05/23/11 09:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

drr said:
Free doses for loved ones only.




That's how I roll with my extractions as well. :thumbup:


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Offlineargg
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: drr]
    #14500865 - 05/23/11 09:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde used to be able to be purchased from the back of high times/rolling stone. There seems to be a resurgence of synthetic mesc around as its been seen in a couple places and test results on a harm reduction site show a highly pure mesc. I had to pick up a couple grams even though I already had a couple from cacti. It makes me happy to see it out there.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: eqt146]
    #14500894 - 05/23/11 09:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

eqt146 said:
When you do a mescaline extraction, you're actually getting a mix of various alkaloids, including mescaline. Many of these are psychoactive as well. That's why a Peyote trip, San Pedro trip, and Peruvian Torch trip are slightly qualitatively different. They have a somewhat different blend of alkaloids. It's also why a trip on extracted mescaline or cactus material sometimes seems to come in "waves". Some of the alkaloids kick in faster than others so the trip isn't necessarily linear in intensity.





This is interesting because when I compare my Everclear extracted cactus trips with my water extracted cactus trips, they are often different.  The Everclear trips last much longer but are often less intense and the water extracted trips are more intense but are shorter.  I guess each solvent pulls different alkaloids and leaves others behind.  I think a better way of doing this is to do an Everclear extraction and then do a quick tea cook afterwards on the material.  The trips I get from A/B extractions always seem the least worthy, they are damn weak even at high doses.  I've always suspected that A/B extractions were not very efficient when compared to a good tea.  I know that perhaps the other alkaloids play a part in the awesome tea trips, but damn, I just feel I am throwing my cactus away when I A/B it.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinemrnye
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: eqt146]
    #15660531 - 01/13/12 02:08 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eqt146 said:
If you want PURE mescaline, synthesis is still probably the least practical way to get it. This would definitely be easier than a synthesis.

There's a reason you don't see much mescaline on the streets. Extraction doesn't give very good yields in relation to the amount you need to trip, and synthesis is just too hard and impractical.




This is just all out wrong. Hate to say it but synthesis is much easier and cost-effective means for obtaining LARGE yeilds of PURE mescaline HCl.
In fact, if you want PURE mesc you have to synthesize, as mentioned earlier when extracting from cacti you do, in fact get more than just mesc.
If you find a source for 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde then theres a 2-step, very safe, reaction to the corresponding beta-nitrostyrene.
Then you have to set up and know how to operate a hydrogenation apparatus that can withstand 80psi and hydrogenat over Pd/C. If any meth cook can do this I think some of the fartsmell.....er smart fellers on here can figure it out.
It goes like so;
1. 1000g of 3,4,5TMB is mixed with 280ml Nitromethane and 2100ml EtOH  in one container

2. In another container 420g KOH is mixed with 420ml d-H20 and 840ml MeOH

3. These are mixed together in an Ice bath to keep the temperature down and, upon full addition, is removed from the ice bath and left to sit at room temp for 30min

4. In another 5 gallon glass carboy, make 3gallons of 10%HCl.

5. After the full half-hour of reacting, the reaction mixture is poured into the carboy and submerged in an Ice bath.

6. A yellow precipitate will settle/crystallize out and after it all settles the liquids can be siphoned off throug a funnel and filter to catch and nytrostyrene that may be sucked through.

7. Dissolve all yellow precipitates in boiling MeOH, Filter and cool to form yellow crystal, vaccuum filter off, recrystallize again if needed or desired and store in an air tight "blacked-out" jar for future use.
This yeilds around 800-900g 3,4,5-Trimethoxy-beta-nitrostyrene.

To reduce to 345TMPEA via catalytic hydrogenation, I will quote erowid;

Hydrogenation

    15g Pd/C 5%
    175g 3,4,5TMBnitrostyrene
    2.5L Anhydrous EtOH
    100ml 31.45% HCl

Procedure

    Add reagents to the keg, begin vigorous stirring
    Remove atmosphere and pressurize to 75psi with H2
    React for 8-10 hours or until H2 uptake has completely ceased
    Evacuate H2 outside, vacuum out interior of vessel, allow H2 to clear, THEN open the vessel
    Vacuum filter off Pd/C
    Re-filter through celite for maximum Pd/C recovery/removal
    Distill the mixture down until the Ethanol fraction begins to cease
    Cool and take up what is left in 2L 3N HCl

        Your remainder may look somewhat black/brown here, but don't worry, this will all be cleared up. If the hydrogenation did not go to completion some unreacted nitrostyrene will remain, this should be filtered from the solution.

    Wash with 2x125ml DCM
    Basify to pH>11 dropwise and with stirring with saturated NaOH solution
    Extract 3x125ml DCM
    Dry over NaSO4 (250g) for 15 minutes
    Filter off NaSO4 and bubble DCM with HCl(g) anhydrous. After crystalization ceases it can be advantageous to filter and redry the DCM with another 100g NaSO4, then bubble some more.
    Collect HCl salt crystals by filtration

Final mass yield = 168.74g Mescaline•HCl

Scale up if you can find a big enough reaction pressure vessel or do it in batches.

As you can see, though, if you can find the right sources this is a much less expensive way to get around 5-600g pure mescaline HCl than buying 60+ kilos of dry cactus chips. I actually added up the cost of doing all of this once not too long ago and its less that $1500 including the 345TMB and the Pd/C, which will be the only thing that's actually hard to get a hold of, everything else is available all over, but you can find anything in China:cool:


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:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:PE's a Plenty:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:
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Offlinesk8ordude
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye]
    #15660804 - 01/13/12 03:09 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

If one had the facilities it might be easier to produce it then extract it in widescale production. They have synthesized drugs quite similar to mescaline and it was much cheaper per dose.


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Offlinemrnye
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: sk8ordude]
    #15662037 - 01/13/12 08:22 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I'm saying it doesn't take any more facilities than a common meth lab to produce, if one has access to the proper precursor and catalyst. Did you read the first reaction? You can basically mix up the reaction mixture in a gallon wine jug and have your HCl in a 5 gal carboy that's sitting in a tub full of ice water. Mix in the TMB mixture and wait for precips to settle, recrystallize from Methanol and bang, you got your nitrostyrene.

Then you get something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alloy-Products-Corp-Chemical-Pressure-Vessel-T316L-4L-/220797128386?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336888cec2

Rigged with proper valves, regulators and gauges this would make the perfect hydrogenation vessel. If you read the procedure, shaking isn't mentioned, so need to worry with building a safe shaker that won't leave catalyst on the side of the vessel to dry out under H2 :onfire:

Anywho, I'm no chemist but this doesn't sound any more complex than a methamphetamine synth, and if the TMB can be obtained then somebody somewhere is doing this. So the is the possibility of getting synthetic mesc if you live in a metropolitan type area, but if its not a big capsule full then chances are you got some kind of RC. Somebody get me some 345-TMB and some Pd/C and I'll show you how easily it can be done(also I need all the equipment I've mentioned)


--------------------
:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:PE's a Plenty:ass2mouth::ass2mouth:
:House2:You'll DIE if you don't read this!
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InvisibleMeteloides
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Re: synthesized mescaline ? [Re: mrnye]
    #15662943 - 01/14/12 12:08 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Leonard Pickard synthed Mescaline, just to prove to himself he could do it.
The shit requires a real lab setup, and a solid understanding of chemistry and synthesis. And a recipe that actually works, and isn't some of the poorly put together shit you can find on the internet (this isn't directed at any posts in this thread, just an observation that you can't trust some of the things you read on other sites). If it sounds too good/easy to be true, it's not a real synth.

Extraction is easier. But its pretty widely believed that a full-spectrum cactus tea is a more enjoyable trip.


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