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pris;
again, you wouldnt have an equivalent of weight because of the value of
the backing metals,

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dilute the metals with copper or other metals in order to
devalue the silver content or to reduce the size of the coins, silver is a
commodity,

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it's price fluctuates and as more is pulled from circulation
the more the price increases

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if you have more certificates in circulation than you do silver then
you're printing fiat currency, federal reserve notes that have the claim
of being backed by silver

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silver certificates arent by the ounce, they're by a dollar value

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based on silver coins, a silver dollar weighs one ounce but has a face value of $1, a $10 silver certificate is backed by a 10 $1 coins or 10 ounces of silver, if the price of silver increases from $1/oz to $10/oz then that's $100 in silver coin with a face value of $10 but a real value of $100

it's not based on a measurement of weight it's based on the value of a commodity

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no because  the value of the commodity backing it can increase yet the
buying power of the certificate remains the same, you can't spend a $10
certificate on $100 in goods unless the merchant agreed to such a deal,
most merchants would only accept it at face value and most people would
only see it at face value

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understand that silver certificates werent only used like savings bonds,
they were circulated as normal cash, you can still find a few surfacing
now and then in your change from a convenience store because they're still
legal tender

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and only worth the face value to a merchant and the banks

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blewmeanie said:
I'm glad we're in agreement. I'll meet you at the Reichstag around 9:30, you bring the matches.

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The obligation of a certificate states how much of a specific commodity the government of a country will "pay to the bearer." On most large-size Silver Certificates, the obligation reads: "This certifies that there have/has been deposited in the Treasury of the United States of America (number) silver dollar(s) payable to the bearer on demand." On small-sized Silver Certificates beginning with Series 1934, in order to denote current location of deposit, it was changed to read: "This certifies that there is on deposit in the Treasury of the United States of America (number) dollar(s) in silver payable to the bearer on demand."

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blewmeanie said:
All a part of establishing the "new order".

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Shins said:
Pris, i repeat. a silver certificate is a set weight of silver. Fed notes are of no factor to this.

This is the crux of your misunderstanding.

When they say "$1" silver certificate, it does not mean that you get $1's worth of silver when you redeem it in relation the market price valued with federal reserve notes.

You get a set amount of silver regardless.  "$1 silver certificate" = X weight of silver, it has nothing to do with Fed note valuation.

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Silver Certificates are a type of representative money printed from 1878 to 1964 in the United States as part of its circulation of paper currency.[1] They were produced in response to silver agitation by citizens who were angered by the Fourth Coinage Act, which had effectively placed the United States on a gold standard. The certificates were initially redeemable in the same face value of silver dollar coins, and later in raw silver bullion. Since 1968 they have been redeemable only in Federal Reserve Notes and are thus obsolete, but are still valid legal tender.

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This is inflationary because it allows the treasury to issue new silver certificates and re-struck coins in relation to the economy.

In the case of JFK's executive order, the certificate were redeemable for silver dollars coins and the set weight of silver thereof. These dollars were still legal tender and the same in every way to a 1 # silver certificate.

When you own a silver certificate, you own a silver dollar coin, and the weight in silver thereof, they are interchangeable.

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and only worth the face value to a merchant and the banks

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This is incorrect. Some merchants will accept them at market value, and some banks do also, especially lately.

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ilver Certificates are a type of representative money printed from 1878 to 1964 in the United States as part of its circulation of paper currency.[1] They were produced in response to silver agitation by citizens who were angered by the Fourth Coinage Act, which had effectively placed the United States on a gold standard. The certificates were initially redeemable in the same face value of silver dollar coins,

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and later in raw silver bullion. Since 1968 they have been redeemable only in Federal Reserve Notes and are thus obsolete, but are still valid legal tender.

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Executive Order 11110 was issued by U.S. President John F. Kennedy on June 4, 1963.

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Since 1968 they have been redeemable only in Federal Reserve Notes and are thus obsolete

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Pris said; the redemption through the mint/banks was for the face value, not weight,

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except silver prices began to climb faster than the mint could deal with

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the face value was interchangeable, the quantity of silver was not

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Sleepwalker said:
Some of those on the "conspiracy" side of this discussion need to take note of shins' style of argument.  You know, he actually listens to the opposing viewpoint and presents his own logic for all to see.  There is something to learn from this.

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Shins said:

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Sleepwalker said:
Some of those on the "conspiracy" side of this discussion need to take note of shins' style of argument.  You know, he actually listens to the opposing viewpoint and presents his own logic for all to see.  There is something to learn from this.

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Thank you, i have been trying very hard lately to keep my emotional frustrations in check.

Thank you for you appreciation, it's a lot of work.

I have sacrificed some aspects of my personal life as well as a lot of time and energy to bring this information to you.

I have made it my major passion in life, and I'm really trying with all i can.

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Shins said:
Pris that last post literally made me cry.. I'm trying so hard to get through to you...

The face value of a 1$ certificate was one silver dollar coin and the silver contained therein.  That's what the emboldened sentence means.

This had nothing to do with Fed notes, they are not in the equation.

$1 silver certificate is redeemable for $1 silver coin.

$10 silver certificate is redeemable for 10 $1 silver coins.

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and later in raw silver bullion. Since 1968 they have been redeemable only in Federal Reserve Notes and are thus obsolete, but are still valid legal tender.

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^this is very important.

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Pris said; the redemption through the mint/banks was for the face value, not weight,

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This is simply untrue, you have to accept this.

The face value IS the weight.

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except silver prices began to climb faster than the mint could deal with

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Silver prices only rose in relation to Fed notes.

In relation to silver certificates it stayed exactly the same.

They still could be redeemed for the exact same weight of silver until they were diluted.

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the face value was interchangeable, the quantity of silver was not

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You have this backwards. It was the quantity of silver that was reduced, eventually to nothing.

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so wait, you're trying to get through to me yet that $1 certificate is no
longer the ounce of silver but the face value of the bill/coin,

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it .. tie(d) to the federal reserve note because they couldn't have the
monetary differential

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they did away with the silver certificates, $1 had
to be the same value as $1, $10 had to be the same value as $10 regardless

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otherwise who would use the fed notes

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why shins is the silver certificate no longer worth the ounce of silver

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but redeemable for the face value in other currency such as a $10 SC for
$10 in coins as you've been claiming throughout this thread

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why yes, it is very important because in 1960 silver was worth less than $1/oz, by 1963 it climbed by about 30 cents and they were still obligated to release it as per the agreements, in coin or bullion, as the price climbed and they were releasing ALL their reserves the price kept climbing
in 1963 silver certificates were no longer issued and only fed notes were

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Once the Treasury stopped selling at that price

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By 1963, silver prices reached $1.29, the monetary value of silver in coinage. At prices above this level, holders of silver certificates would have been able to redeem them for more valuable silver,

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no shins, the face value is the face value which is why we were pulled
from precious meals standards, then the weight value exceeded the face
value

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... (w)hen the weight value exceeded the face
value it was no longer feasible because they lost money in the transactions

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when the coins were minted silver was less than $1/oz, the coins weighed
less than an ounce, they contained an alloy which reduced the weight of
the silver in the coins even further in order to stave off the loss for a
period

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but collectors started hoarding silver which led to dramatic price
increases

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in the markets and actually caused the collapse in value of
uncirculated coins like the Morgan Dollar while the circulated Morgans
exceeded the value of the uncirculated

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Between November 1962 and March 1964, millions of Morgan and Peace dollars were sold to the general public.[33] Interest began in 1962, when a date of Morgan dollar that was previously considered very rare was discovered in a bag of silver dollars taken from a vault of the Philadelphia Mint.[33] The demand to exchange silver certificates for silver dollars was so great that lines formed outside of the Treasury Building in Washington, D.C., with some of those in line pushing wheelbarrows.[33] Upon discovering bags of Carson City-minted dollars, Treasury officials decided to hold them back as mintage totals from that mint were generally lower than others

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NO, they were redeemable for the same in FACE VALUE, not weight, the
differential in values between the coins, certificates and the notes
caused problems with the economy

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it was of concern to the treasury because foreign nations could buy up all the silver if it exceeded the face value of the certificates, silver dilution started long before kennedy was born because the silver prices always fluctuated

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no shins, I dont have it backwards, as I've stated, you're working on a fallacy that the value of the certificates were based on weight.

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the problem comes in when the weight of silver exceeds the denominations value.

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Shins said:

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so wait, you're trying to get through to me yet that $1 certificate is no
longer the ounce of silver but the face value of the bill/coin,

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What is important and relevant is not what they are redeemable for today, but what they were redeemable for in 1963.

Which was a weight of silver - a silver dollar coin of a set weight of silver.

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it .. tie(d) to the federal reserve note because they couldn't have the
monetary differential

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This pretty much is correct,  The Fed notes were inflating past parity with the market value of the silver dollar.

The $1 Fed notes were becoming worth less relative to the market price of $1 silver dollars, so the value of the bills lost parity.

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why yes, it is very important because in 1960 silver was worth less than $1/oz, by 1963 it climbed by about 30 cents and they were still obligated to release it as per the agreements, in coin or bullion, as the price climbed and they were releasing ALL their reserves the price kept climbing
in 1963 silver certificates were no longer issued and only fed notes were

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You need to stop thinking in terms of Fed dollars.

The price of silver only rose in terms of Fed notes.

One silver certificate was still redeemable for one silver dollar.

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Once the Treasury stopped selling at that price

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This is referring to Treasury sales of silver in Fed notes.

You could buy silver from the Treasury with Fed notes at the market rate.

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By 1963, silver prices reached $1.29, the monetary value of silver in coinage. At prices above this level, holders of silver certificates would have been able to redeem them for more valuable silver,

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This is all relative to Fed note valuation. 

In terms of certificates the value and weight stayed exactly the same.

The "value" of silver only rose relative to Fed notes because Fed notes became less valuable.

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no shins, the face value is the face value which is why we were pulled
from precious meals standards, then the weight value exceeded the face
value

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You're still confused, but kinda right.

Silver face value = 1 silver dollar coin and the weight of silver therein.
Fed note face value = One Fed note.

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Shins said:

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in the markets and actually caused the collapse in value of
uncirculated coins like the Morgan Dollar while the circulated Morgans
exceeded the value of the uncirculated

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_dollar

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Between November 1962 and March 1964, millions of Morgan and Peace dollars were sold to the general public.[33] Interest began in 1962, when a date of Morgan dollar that was previously considered very rare was discovered in a bag of silver dollars taken from a vault of the Philadelphia Mint.[33] The demand to exchange silver certificates for silver dollars was so great that lines formed outside of the Treasury Building in Washington, D.C., with some of those in line pushing wheelbarrows.[33] Upon discovering bags of Carson City-minted dollars, Treasury officials decided to hold them back as mintage totals from that mint were generally lower than others

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These Morgans were more rare, and had higher collector value and thus demand.

You have it backwards again, the un-circulated morgans exceeded the demand/value of other more common circulated silver dollars.

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Shins said:
I'm not going to give up on you pris until we get this straight.

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Free.Your.Mind said:

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Shins said:
I'm not going to give up on you pris until we get this straight.

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thats gonna take a long, long time my friend

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I feel like i am going "look pris this is an apple;"



..and he keeps saying, "NO it's a banana!"