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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs?
#13868063 - 01/28/11 08:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry if this has been covered too much. But since my dogs are vegetarian, it seems like a new twist. They get their protein from eggs and lentils. (Don't worry, I've done the math, and they are getting the optimum amount of fats, protein, and calories. It is a vet endorsed recipe. They also LOOOOOOOOVE their homemade food.) It consists of brown rice, lentils, eggs, and vegetables. So since they don't eat meat...could I use their poo for a substrate? I read that dogs could have worms. I could get them tested for worms at the vet, though. Also, worms can live in dirt, so if you're picking up horse and cow poo...you could get worms from that, too, no? After getting their stool checked for worms...could I use the poo?
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Edited by Joy1686 (01/28/11 08:06 PM)
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evildee125
Here now
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Posts: 3,179
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868078 - 01/28/11 08:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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chances are, youre going to get a number of responses stating no.. though i think this will at the very least make for a good experiment that may yield some interesting data..
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Luger0815
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868087 - 01/28/11 08:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dog=Carnivore!
I dont know what the veggie style Dog poo smells but i guess it isn't something u want have in your home.
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bourndead
Down to Earth by Default
Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 1,030
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868095 - 01/28/11 08:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Speaking only of the diet, the one distinction between that of your dog and the animals which produce poo we can use (ie; horses, chickens, rabbits, cows, etc) is the egg yo. Though I'm unsure exactly what, if any, adverse effect this may have on your project.
Also, the worms dogs can carry are not the same as those found in the earth and are generally parasitic by nature, providing nothing of any value to the host.
-------------------- "I don't have a God complex, you've got a simple God"
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Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: evildee125]
#13868100 - 01/28/11 08:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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no. i used to think that diet was the important point here too, but the fact is a carnivores digestive system is far too different from a large herbivore. it might still work, as cubes are very resilient and will colonize a variety of substrates, but its gross and i think results would be poor. and its gross.
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: bourndead]
#13868102 - 01/28/11 08:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Luger0815 said: Dog=Carnivore!
Why? Give me a scientific reason why they're not okay with this diet. True, wolves eat meat, but if I'm giving them enough protein, they should be fine. And they will take this food over their old kibble ANY DAY. So that's good enough for me.
I REALLY don't want this post to be bitching about what I feed my dogs. It's about the poo.Quote:
bourndead said: Speaking only of the diet, the one distinction between that of your dog and the animals which produce poo we can use (ie; horses, chickens, rabbits, cows, etc) is the egg yo. Though I'm unsure exactly what, if any, adverse effect this may have on your project.
Also, the worms dogs can carry are not the same as those found in the earth and are generally parasitic by nature, providing nothing of any value to the host.
Well, true they're not earth worms, haha. But round worms can lie dormant in soil, get on a dogs body, and when the dog grooms itself they can infect.
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Fungal growth]
#13868113 - 01/28/11 08:17 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fungal growth said: and its gross.
I don't know...I think poking around in horse or cow poo, when I don't even know who plopped it, will be kind of gross too...but maybe that's my newbishness
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The_Outsider
Stranger
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868133 - 01/28/11 08:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you a vegetarian? Maybe you can use your own poo.
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: The_Outsider]
#13868157 - 01/28/11 08:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sawbagz said: Are you a vegetarian? Maybe you can use your own poo.
Not as reliably vegetarian as they are... and my poo smells much worse.
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Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: The_Outsider]
#13868164 - 01/28/11 08:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sawbagz said: Are you a vegetarian? Maybe you can use your own poo.
yeah, i saw a tek a while back where a guy just fed his horses spore prints. maybe you could try that!
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Luger0815
noob
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Posts: 1,677
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868167 - 01/28/11 08:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Does the veggie wiener smells better than the normal shit.Quote:
Joy1686 said: Sorry if this has been covered too much. But since my dogs are vegetarian, it seems like a new twist. They get their protein from eggs and lentils. (Don't worry, I've done the math, and they are getting the optimum amount of fats, protein, and calories. It is a vet endorsed recipe. They also LOOOOOOOOVE their homemade food.) It consists of brown rice, lentils, eggs, and vegetables. So since they don't eat meat...could I use their poo for a substrate? I read that dogs could have worms. I could get them tested for worms at the vet, though. Also, worms can live in dirt, so if you're picking up horse and cow poo...you could get worms from that, too, no? After getting their stool checked for worms...could I use the poo?
A typical case of logorroeh!
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Base Icks
Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Fungal growth]
#13868201 - 01/28/11 08:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungal growth said: no. i used to think that diet was the important point here too, but the fact is a carnivores digestive system is far too different from a large herbivore. it might still work, as cubes are very resilient and will colonize a variety of substrates, but its gross and i think results would be poor. and its gross.
Also compare he consistency and texture of it to dried field aged horse manure. I bet there is a big difference.
Maybe start feeding them hay instead. Or trade them for a horse.
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Luger0815]
#13868211 - 01/28/11 08:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungal growth said: A typical case of logorroeh!
Um...logorrhoea...you're not really used to...words...are you?
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Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868259 - 01/28/11 08:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Joy1686 said:
Quote:
Fungal growth said: A typical case of logorroeh!
Um...logorrhoea...you're not really used to...words...are you?
wtf? i didn't say that!
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evildee125
Here now
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Posts: 3,179
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Fungal growth]
#13868294 - 01/28/11 08:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungal growth said:
Quote:
Joy1686 said:
Quote:
Fungal growth said: A typical case of logorroeh!
Um...logorrhoea...you're not really used to...words...are you?
wtf? i didn't say that!
again op,, this might make for an interesting experiment.. though the question has come up many times and shot down just as frequently, ive never myself actually read of someone trying it.. i imagine the texture wouldnt lend itself well used as is.. if i were to try this, i would mix it in with coir or hpoo.. give it a whirl.. tell us how it goes
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: evildee125]
#13868310 - 01/28/11 09:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Man, vegetarians sure are crazy. Trying to use dog crap for cultivation.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: afrosheen]
#13868376 - 01/28/11 09:17 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's not what the animal eats, it's the type of digestive system. In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer. Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves. Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Raw
Muslim
Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 1,419
Loc: USA West Coast
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Base Icks]
#13868401 - 01/28/11 09:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not to mention the risk of getting very very ill.
No human or pig poo or dog poo or cat poo or bear poo etc...!!!
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Base Icks said:
Quote:
Fungal growth said: no. i used to think that diet was the important point here too, but the fact is a carnivores digestive system is far too different from a large herbivore. it might still work, as cubes are very resilient and will colonize a variety of substrates, but its gross and i think results would be poor. and its gross.
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macmikem
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Raw]
#13868424 - 01/28/11 09:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just say no to dog poo!
-------------------- Jacks-house.com - the fucking freshest tech house on earth, Monday to Wednesday, evenings in the UK daytime in the US. This place is the BEST! By the way, god does not heal amputees.
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Fungal growth]
#13868597 - 01/28/11 10:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungal growth said:
Quote:
Joy1686 said:
Quote:
Fungal growth said: A typical case of logorroeh!
Um...logorrhoea...you're not really used to...words...are you?
wtf? i didn't say that!
sorry
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BothHands
Dog Coffee
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868644 - 01/28/11 10:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer. Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves. Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay. RR
I believe dogs are opportunistic, like bears, and can eat fruits, nuts, some (but not all) vegetables, and definitely eggs. Ever look at the ingredients in dry dog food? Corn is the first ingredient. Iams and Purina, not some store brand either. I wouldn't feed my dog a vegetarian diet, but I don't think it's particularly bad for them. Not any worse than dog food, anyway.
I think cats need meat to survive though, but I'm not sure.
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FruitBowl
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868651 - 01/28/11 10:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whatever a dog eats its poo will still be dog poo. They do not have ruminant stomachs. So a cow and a dog eating the same thing will not produce the same end product.
The primary difference between a ruminant and non-ruminant (called monogastrics, such as people, dogs, and pigs) is that ruminants have a four-compartment stomach. The four parts of the stomach are rumen, reticulum, omasum, and abomasum. In the first two chambers, the rumen and the reticulum, the food is mixed with saliva and separates into layers of solid and liquid material. Solids clump together to form the cud or bolus. The cud is then regurgitated, chewed slowly to completely mix it with saliva and to break down the particle size. Fiber, especially cellulose and hemi-cellulose, is primarily broken down into the three volatile fatty acids, ethanoic acid, propanoic acid and 3-hydroxy butanoic acid, in these chambers by microbes (bacteria, archaea, protozoa, and fungi). Protein and non-structural carbohydrate (pectin, sugars, starches) are also fermented.
It is just not the same. Horses are not ruminants either but-
Structural carbohydates like cellulose and hemicellulose, along with starch and other soluble carbohydrates that escape digestion in the small intestine, flow into the large intestine where it is subjected to fermentation.
The large intestine of horses and other hindgut fermenters is a fermentation system analagous to the rumen. The process of fermentation that occurs in the hindgut is essentially identical to that which occurs in the forestomachs of ruminants. Most importantly, horses survive as herbivores because volatile fatty acids are produced in large quantities, absorbed through the cecal and colonic epithelium, and distributed for use throughout the body. One significant difference from the ruminant strategy is that that large quantity of microbial protein generated in the equine large gut is wasted because there is no opportunity there for significant absorption of amino acids.
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/herbivores/horses.html
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: BothHands]
#13868656 - 01/28/11 10:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: It's not what the animal eats, it's the type of digestive system. In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer. Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves. Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay. RR
I have NEVER heard that a vegetarian diet will INCREASE the risk of cancer. I've read exactly the opposite. I'm not saying I won't take you seriously, but you'd need to provide me with some evidence, and I could not find anything on google to support that argument. Yes, the wolf argument. So this is how they eat in the wild, but do mushrooms use perlite in the wild? It's just another way of giving them humidity...and my dogs get fat and protein from eggs and lentils, and they're fine. Dogs are more okay with a vegetarian diet than other animals believed to be carnivores. They're not, as they say, "obligate carnivores." They can digest vegetables and grains. The oldest living dog (until recently) was a vegan that lived to 28. http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0209/articles/020918a.htm
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BothHands said:Cats, on the other hand, cannot survive on a vegetarian diet. Or at least as far as I know.
Ya, I really didn't want this to be about the diet...rather the poop. Anyway, I've been very reluctant to try the vegetarian diet with my cat because I've read that they're obligate carnivores and will go blind without meat. I've heard that they sell vegan cat food...but I've read a lot of warnings about making cats vegan or vegetarian.
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BothHands
Dog Coffee
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868666 - 01/28/11 10:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your original question has been answered though. Not even vegan poop would work. The digestive systems are far too different.
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FruitBowl
ShrooMissy
Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 45
Loc: Eire
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868675 - 01/28/11 10:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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but I've read a lot of warnings about making cats vegan or vegetarian.
Rightly so.That is just animal cruelty.It's one thing having kids and having them follow your dietary beliefs but carnivorous animals eat meat and have no hangups about it. If dogs can do okay on a veggie diet that's grand but people making cats do it is just ridiculous.
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: FruitBowl]
#13868683 - 01/28/11 10:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FruitBowl said: Whatever a dog eats its poo will still be dog poo. They do not have ruminant stomachs.
Hm...good quotes, thanks! I was thinking I could maybe compost it...but now I'm reading that it could still have all kinds of crap in it like e.coli and Toxocara canis nematodes...
Okaaaaaaay, never mind.
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BothHands
Dog Coffee
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13868695 - 01/28/11 10:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Best to just stick to grains and seeds and rice flower. I wouldn't even use hpoo. So many alternatives that didn't come out something's ass.
At least you weren't trying to use your own poop. Had one of those last week. :sigh:
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: evildee125]
#13868701 - 01/28/11 10:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
evildee125 said: again op,, this might make for an interesting experiment.. though the question has come up many times and shot down just as frequently, ive never myself actually read of someone trying it.. i imagine the texture wouldnt lend itself well used as is.. if i were to try this, i would mix it in with coir or hpoo.. give it a whirl.. tell us how it goes
Thanks I'm thinking about composting it, but I've read some stuff to deter me. If I can figure out how to handle those hangups... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=An.NE5rqYTKR2cuTIPcpzUjty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20110128193604AA39Wky ...I may try it. Thanks for being openminded!
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: afrosheen]
#13868720 - 01/28/11 10:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
afrosheen said: Man, vegetarians sure are crazy. Trying to use dog crap for cultivation.
You have a kitten in a microwave for your avatar... AND I'M CRAZY?????? You immature piece of...
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
#13872403 - 01/29/11 06:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Joy1686 said:
Quote:
afrosheen said: Man, vegetarians sure are crazy. Trying to use dog crap for cultivation.
You have a kitten in a microwave for your avatar... AND I'M CRAZY?????? You immature piece of...
Please go on, I've never been flamed before and am looking forward to it.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: BothHands]
#13872626 - 01/29/11 06:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
BothHands said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer. Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves. Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay. RR
Ever look at the ingredients in dry dog food? Corn is the first ingredient. Iams and Purina, not some store brand either. I wouldn't feed my dog a vegetarian diet, but I don't think it's particularly bad for them. Not any worse than dog food, anyway.
The addition of corn and other grains in dog food is one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for the increase in dog cancer. I always hunt and freeze two extra deer every season for my dogs. They don't eat commercial dog food, but do catch turkey, grouse, rabbits and squirrels, etc., for their food needs. You'll find some interesting info on dog cancer at alohamedicinals.com RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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FruitBowl
ShrooMissy
Registered: 01/26/11
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Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13875001 - 01/30/11 03:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
BothHands said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer. Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves. Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay. RR
Ever look at the ingredients in dry dog food? Corn is the first ingredient. Iams and Purina, not some store brand either. I wouldn't feed my dog a vegetarian diet, but I don't think it's particularly bad for them. Not any worse than dog food, anyway.
The addition of corn and other grains in dog food is one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for the increase in dog cancer. I always hunt and freeze two extra deer every season for my dogs. They don't eat commercial dog food, but do catch turkey, grouse, rabbits and squirrels, etc., for their food needs. You'll find some interesting info on dog cancer at alohamedicinals.com RR
That's very true. Just because something says it's "dog food" does not mean it is meant for a dog. Just like us, giving animals highly processed food instead of healthy alternatives will make them fat and get other ailments. It's just another way of making money! When was dog food first marketed?
Quote:
Dodi is our cat, and we know cats do not normally eat carbohydrates such as ground rice or sugar nor corn nor vegetables oils. Nevertheless that's what we had been feeding him. It said on the packets that it was 'scientifically formulated' after all.
The absurdity of feeding an animal types of waste it never evolved to eat that actually makes it fat and sick ought to be easy enough to see. But we have not apparently been alone in our blindness – feline diabetes has risen dramatically in the last few years in the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/23/food-book-extract-felicity-lawrence?INTCMP=SRCH
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FractalXplora
Grainiack
Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 2,494
Loc: UK
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: FruitBowl]
#13875030 - 01/30/11 03:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jeeees man, give that poor dog a bone and buy some coir ya Pikey!¬
i need meat.
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Joy1686
Grasshoppa
Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13875816 - 01/30/11 10:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: The addition of corn and other grains in dog food is one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for the increase in dog cancer. I always hunt and freeze two extra deer every season for my dogs. They don't eat commercial dog food, but do catch turkey, grouse, rabbits and squirrels, etc., for their food needs. You'll find some interesting info on dog cancer at alohamedicinals.com RR
It's obvious that we're both coming from a place of love for our dogs, so although we have opposing information that we're choosing to follow, we're really trying to do the same thing. I really could not find anything on alohamedicinals.com, as that is a mushroom company. I found some supplements for dogs, but nothing about dog cancer. From what I've been reading, brown rice is the best grain a dog can eat. They recommend it for dogs with sensitive stomachs, as well as dogs going through chemotherapy (would they recommend something cancerous to a dog trying to get rid of cancer?). It is highly recommended by vets. I have read that corn and other highly processed grains can cause allergies in dogs, which I'm trying to avoid because the little one has bad allergies. I think the raw dog food advocates have a very different take on what's healthy and not, but for now I'm going to go with what I've heard from vets. Doctor's don't always know what they're talking about, but that's the info I'm gambling with. Take care
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Edited by Joy1686 (01/30/11 11:53 AM)
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Funguy1146
Stranger
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#21085985 - 01/08/15 06:43 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know this is an extremely old post but was just curious if you also fed the deer to your dogs raw?
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blojo02184
Big Red
Registered: 05/15/13
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Loc: Maine
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Funguy1146]
#21086134 - 01/08/15 07:51 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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