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Amazon Shop for: Papaver Somniferum, pH Test Strips

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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine?
    #13733075 - 01/05/11 02:33 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So which produces more thebaine?

Papaver bracteatum (The Iranian Poppy) or Papaver orientale (The Oriental Poppy)?

So I guess the Oriental produces morphine too, but if I was chasing Morphine then I would just grow somniferum... Which I'm doing.

I want high Thebaine also.

So which of the two is it? I can't find anything on the Net that tells me which produces more and/or which are used commercially more frequently.

Thanks all!!


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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13734355 - 01/05/11 11:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Wow. I'm surprised that nobody knows yet.

See what I mean everybody? Tough information to find out isn't it?

Well if anybody knows, this is a sort of bump for my thread too!

Thanks again all!


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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13735230 - 01/05/11 03:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thebaine is not used therapeutically, but as the main alkaloid extracted from Papaver bracteatum, it can be converted industrially into a variety of compounds including oxycodone, oxymorphone, nalbuphine, naloxone, naltrexone, buprenorphine and etorphine.

from wiki


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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: amenra]
    #13735530 - 01/05/11 04:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So then I guess it's bracteatum...


Do any of you wonder why the company Tasmanian Alkaloids hybridized a variant of somniferum that produces HIGH amounts of Thebaine when instead they could just be farming bracteatum???

Could it be that the pods on the somniferum are much larger than the bracteatum and therefore actually yield higher amounts than the bracteatum?

Thanks for the reply thus far.


--------------------
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Offlinesidvivius
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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13876498 - 01/30/11 02:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I think pharmaceutical industry only use poppy straw and not pods, but I'm not sure of that !


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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: sidvivius]
    #13884159 - 01/31/11 09:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I wonder why they wouldn't use the whole plant though.

Wouldn't the pods have the highest amount of thebaine anyways?

Anyways, I've been reading more and it seems that bracteatum is used for commercial thebaine/codeine production anyways. The Papaver orientale is also used for thebaine/morphine production but as I stated above if I wanted to chase morphine I'd just grow somniferum. So my decision for a thebaine-producing plant has lead me toward the purchase of Papaver bracteatum seeds!!

Thanks!


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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13888638 - 02/01/11 06:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Could you explain what use the thebaine is to you?

I was looking into the topic of thebaine to oxycodone synthesis a few days ago, but it would seem virtually impossible without a great deal of lab equipment.


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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: kerelsk]
    #13899720 - 02/03/11 03:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You can convert Thebaine into lots of things.
Codeine
Hydrocodone
Morphine
Oxycodone
Oxymorphone (Opana) The best lab-grade shit I've ever tried.

To name a few.

Thebaine derivatives seem much more "happy" in their euphoria.


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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13900100 - 02/03/11 04:53 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushroomhunter10 said:
So then I guess it's bracteatum...


Do any of you wonder why the company Tasmanian Alkaloids hybridized a variant of somniferum that produces HIGH amounts of Thebaine when instead they could just be farming bracteatum???

Could it be that the pods on the somniferum are much larger than the bracteatum and therefore actually yield higher amounts than the bracteatum?

Thanks for the reply thus far.




The hybrid.. probably is just more suited for their climate.. most hybrid are stronger :shrug:


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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: amenra]
    #13900315 - 02/03/11 05:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I C


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InvisibleLipa Kreepa
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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13914949 - 02/06/11 11:43 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

man ud likely need a shit load of these plants to actually manufacture any respectable amounts of thebaine based chemicals. likely ud end up with a few tar balls of T-rich opium and thats all. like all poppies, the yields are very low per plant.

also arent the bract's the small and stunted looking poppies? that seems like it would be even more of a headache. im onlyexperienced with somnis tho... so maybe i dunno what im talking about here. it wouldnt be the first time:grin: but whatever u are doing, good luck with the grow. if anything, poppies are gorgeous blooms and free drugs is always a great thing to look forward to.

i got mypops planted for the spring already. im actually about to go out and thin my patch a little bit.

blessings my man:bigjoint:


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"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut


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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #13915472 - 02/06/11 02:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well there are some Afghani and Tasmanian that contain up to 30% morphine in the tar. So per gram of opium that's 300mg of morphine. Pretty nice dose imho. I say each plant would yield a gram plus.

As for the thebaine-producing plants yes, it can be worth it because there are processes which have 90%+ retention. So for 1g of thebaine you'd get 900mg of oxycodone. Not a bad ratio at all.

Which strain/variety do you grow or prefer??


--------------------
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InvisibleLipa Kreepa
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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13922595 - 02/07/11 08:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

well yeah even with a 30% yield of morphine, that doesnt necessarily mean that you would 300mg of morphine at all. opium is not straight up pure alkaloids. there are other inactive things in opium, besides alks. i think the alk yield of opium is like 10% (tho it might be few points higher or lower, dont know for sure), so with 30% of that itd be more like 30mg instead of 300mg. thatd be nice tho.
i dunno much about converting thebaine to oxycodone or similar processes at all. i wish u well tho. i have glanced over some of the processes and there is a good bit of chemistry involved. i doubt theres any one pot recipes for such a yield. i also doubt that the catalysts and other reactive chemicals are easy to acquire otc either. youll likely have to do some shopping at some chemicalsupply companies. would u mind sharing which process u tend to carry about(hypothetically of course). pm me if u arent comfortable sharing it here. id love to read it over.

goodluck regardless.


--------------------
LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

Gratitude is a powerful neutralizer of Pessimism.

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut


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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #13926495 - 02/08/11 11:38 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well 30% morphine content does mean 300mg! :smile:
If 30% of a gram is something then that something is 300mg. You're probably right about the retained amount after extraction though. Morphine extraction would probably get in the neighborhood of 90% yield. Anyways there are several patented processes but I'm not sure which is easiest yet. I have friends that are chem majors so any process will be easy for me to get done. I've found a few processes at Erowid's Rhodium Archives but haven't decided which one. My friends would be the ones that decide... There are also a few patents online that show processes too.

I suppose I can post links if you want me to... just let me know!


--------------------
Imagine if you needed it and it wasn't there... GIVE BLOOD
Get a free (PAINLESS) bone marrow testing kit and help save lives HERE.
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InvisibleLipa Kreepa
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Re: Papaver bracteatum Vs. Papaver orientale. Which produces more thebaine? [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #13930137 - 02/08/11 11:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

no no u missed what i was saying. 30% of a gram of opium is not 300mg of morphine. opium is not a syrup of pure chemicals. even if m is 30% of the yield that does notmean that 30% of the opium's weight will be morphine. the % of alkaloids to the weight of opium is around 10-30%, tho id have to look it up to get an exact number i know its nothing over 30%. but if memeory serves correct, its more like 10%. so that 10% of alkaloids translates to 100mg of per gram of opium. so 30% of that would yield 30mg of morphine. remember a gram is 1000mg and the drugs are only between 10-30% of that. from that number u decipher what the specific chemical yields will be.

isolating morphine and other chemicals can be tricky without experience. ive tried it, by the book a few times and in the end i wished i wouldve just kept the tar and enjoyed its perfection for what it is. like i stated in my first post...the yield of tar per plant is extremely low, no where near a gram, and unless u are growing a few 100 plants, i doubt it will be worth the time and precious precurser to yield pure alkaloids. trust me itll be a waste unless u have like a 1/4oz+ of opium. and if u dont know what u are doing then youl be crying for weeks when u fuck it up and waste yer lovely opium yield. if u arent familiar and experienced with ph calibrations and simple chemistry,you will fail at an alkaloid isolation. not trying to be a dick but believe me if it were that easy, domestic clandestine opiates would be a lot more common.

whereas, natural opium is a lovely treat to embrance each spring. so unless u are a hardcore addict, youre better off enjoying it for what it is. and if u are a hardcore addict, youd realize that its fuckload easier and more practical to just go buy some heroin on the street.

just my 2 cents:bigjoint:


--------------------
LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

Gratitude is a powerful neutralizer of Pessimism.

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut


Edited by Lipa Kreepa (02/08/11 11:12 PM)


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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