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 deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 6,118
Loc: now 
Last seen: 13 minutes, 58 seconds
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 Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: quinn]
#13423688 - 11/02/10 12:57 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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haha yeah that part isn't
here's the whole thing, it's very beautiful: http://www.deeshan.com/zen.htm
i should have put it into context
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 quinn
grimly predictable
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 2,604
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: deff]
#13423801 - 11/02/10 01:18 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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lol thanks
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a fucked of a fuckedness
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mx4inpa
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/10
Posts: 107
Last seen: 2 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: quinn]
#13424332 - 11/02/10 03:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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He just rehashed the main principle of buddhism basically.
When he says self doesnt exist he means the false ego.
Like this page explains.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 8 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: mx4inpa]
#13424361 - 11/02/10 03:16 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Ya, not exactly matrix shattering stuff.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,054
Last seen: 1 day, 7 hours
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: laserpig]
#13424425 - 11/02/10 03:26 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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So yea.. basically..
fuck you
and fuck ne1 here that comes up all amazed with it..
its what i've been trying to explain here for a couple years now ..
this nerdy motherfucker just has a way of condensing it all into a cool story... (and its kinda long too.. i guess you have to be more pro to get ME and my one liners filled with ?)
and i was never able to do that , perhaps because my disgust and rage never loosened up my temper enough in order to better seduce you.
fuck you.
seduce yourself..
find it on your own.
even if it its in this post.
and a cool post it is..
I am glad.
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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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quinn
grimly predictable
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 2,604
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: jivJaN]
#13424554 - 11/02/10 03:47 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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ive never doubted it jiv 
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a fucked of a fuckedness
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fazdazzle
Wanderer
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,796
Last seen: 6 days, 10 hours
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: quinn]
#13424894 - 11/02/10 04:47 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
laserpig said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
The fact is, you don't need to believe this. It's just true. You don't need to convince yourself of it. It's just true.
Whatever you say, boss, I'll just accept it on faith. 
In reading his discussions and discussing with him briefly myself, it is apparent that this is exactly what he does not want people to do.
From that article alone it sure sounded like it... I haven't delved further into his site however.
Quote:
laserpig said:
And is it really so outlandish a claim?
Say he was a radio-astronomer, and he was telling you "Alpha Centauri is 4.37 light years from the sun. You don't need to believe this. It's just true."
There'd be nothing odd about those words.
Yes, but the radio-astronomer can present reasonable evidence in order to justify his proclamation of truth. The impression I got with Ciaran's claim is that he's not even trying to support the no-self hypothesis; instead he's asserting it as an axiom. If this isn't true it'd be great if you could summarize his argument for it.
That axiomatic nature of this situation is I think why he has very little "proof." It's why enlightenment has been so hard to come by for all of history. It has to be found by each person in whatever way makes sense for them. It's exactly how my chemical quantitative analysis prof said "I can't give you epiphanies, you have to have your own." It's also like the saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You ultimately have to "see" it for yourself.
To explain his anger and arrogance, he did at one point say that when he first found this he coupled it with his rage and people began "popping." So he kept coupling anger with his arguments and it worked. This works, IMO, because when people get angry they try and counter whatever they're angry with in order to substantiate their position. If it's a self-evident truth, that anger induced logical digging can make someone dig in and "see" it for themselves.
Quote:
quinn said:
a radio atronomer can back up his 'truth' with objective measurements
how does this fella?
"get over yourself and you will see truth...
that you dont exist?"
does anything exist?
why dont we get over that too?
o wait experience exists... so what? is experience truth?
why is he still typing if he has defeated belief?... he should be inert 
The way I understand it, it's very Zen, like laserpig mentioned. Go ahead and try and talk to me about a computer without the word computer. Then think about what the word computer is. Zen says that words are abstractions and inherently meaningless. Words are sounds that symbolize an abstract thing. If we didn't have words it would take us forever to discuss something because it would remain forever formless or vague. So by this reasoning, "I" is simply another abstraction. What happens, then, isn't that the world disappears, but that "I" ceases to exist, just like "computer" doesn't exist.
laserpig, if you like this, please start reading Alan Watts like there's no tomorrow, because he is ardent about this same idea. I've been on its tail for a long time now and I feel like this guy has helped a bit, so thanks for posting this.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 9 days, 10 hours
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: fazdazzle]
#13424928 - 11/02/10 04:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I've already powered through the majority of Watts' written work, and listened to everything of his that I could find online.
In a way, that's the problem. I'm intimately familiar with the idea conceptually, from a wide variety of angles.
This guy is taking a different approach. His method is to hold you down and say "fuck you, fuck Alan Watts, look at it. Is it true?"
A question I am hesitant to pursue personally.
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lolwut
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 582
Last seen: 2 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: laserpig]
#13424964 - 11/02/10 05:00 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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He seems like he pushes people to experiencing emptiness/non-duality for a short while. He doesn't give the rest of the story though, which is how to actually escape suffering for good, probably because he hasn't. It's like he has had a revelation without fully understanding it, and has now been motivated through greed and anger to "popping people" to feed his own ego. He's more of a "circus-trickster" than a "walking enlightenment machine".
Profound experiences do happen and theres no doubt they can be induced through active participation but I don't think they're the be-all end-all. You can have profound experiences looking at artwork or listening to music. This whole forum situation looks like he is just setting himself up for the same type of fall he's already described, just on a larger scale. I'd say he is a stream-enterer who has been spun-off a bit. But yeah the experiences that he is talking about can be achieved by almost anyone.
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To be an angel, you gotta earn your wings
To control your own, you gotta burn your strings
To hit blackjack, you gotta turn a king
But to live forever, all you gotta do is learn to sing
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 9 days, 10 hours
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: lolwut]
#13425022 - 11/02/10 05:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lolwut said: He doesn't give the rest of the story though, which is how to actually escape suffering for good.
Care to elaborate?
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Cups
technically "here"
Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,924
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: Icelander]
#13425238 - 11/02/10 06:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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from the blog
Quote:
Tolle, McKenna, Descartes, whoever your SELF chosen guru may be.
They’re just fucking tools that don’t know how to free people.
Tolle had the message, but not the method.
McKenna had the method but not the fucking message.
Descartes… was fucking French for fuck sake.
OK I'm sold.
Quote:
laserpig said:
Honestly, that's the main vibe I'm getting from the place.
That it's not hard, and that it doesn't have to be rare.
It is easy LP. So easy. So easy it's almost impossible.
Quote:
laserpig said:Then again, there's a difference between intellectual agreement and actual recognition.
I'm comfortably holed up in the former category.
Quote:
icelander said:But of course the main idea of the difficulty of becoming enlightened rests in the movement from intellectual understanding to grokking in fullness.
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No more words of wisdom.
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fazdazzle
Wanderer
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,796
Last seen: 6 days, 10 hours
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: The Chronic]
#13425316 - 11/02/10 07:14 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Its just that your mind doesn't want to die so will throw up these thoughts like 'removing the 'I' doesn't solve anything...i dont think'
Its the minds job to think, so of course when you try to remove it, it will give you thoughts to counter its own death
BTW the dude who runs that forum threatened to ban me, for posting in his forum!
He also deleted stuff i posted, and accused me of allowing dudes to gangrape a a 15 year old girl.
So if you want strict censorship, you like being told to fuck off & told your full of shit, then join that forum for sure
Laserpig you may think this guy is like some strict zen master, but hes just on an egotistical mission taking his repressed bullshit out on everyone but himself
After contemplating the falsity of the "I" I can't help but feel like my mind can't handle it. It doesn't want it, like you say Chronic....got any advice on that one?
Edit: To be honest, I actually start to get a little nervous when I seem to be getting close 
Edited by fazdazzle (11/02/10 07:21 PM)
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 6,118
Loc: now
Last seen: 13 minutes, 58 seconds
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: fazdazzle]
#13425383 - 11/02/10 07:24 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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let your mind have it's way then, but detach from it
watch it as just a mirage dancing through emptiness-awareness
don't feed it, leave it alone and it'll start to weaken i think
like the zen saying: "don't stop your thoughts let your thoughts stop themselves"
the problem is not the content it's the identification with the content i think
as much as it seems to be somewhat looked down upon by this group, i think meditation can help a lot
try meditating on placing your sense of self onto clear empty space, and hold this for as long as you can - realize this is the true nature of phenomena, all form and characteristics are just imputed abstractions, it all breaks down into empty space - don't feel like there's a 'normal you' and then this empty space to meditate on - instead make the empty space into the 'normal you', everything else is just a delusion from this
also meditating on watching all arising phenomena in the mind while noting each and asserting 'not i, not self, just a phenomenon' is very helpful - include even very subtle phenomena that seem to be the "witness" - include the body and sensations, all thoughts, emotions, etc
also reciting the heart sutra and diamond sutra while trying to realize their teachings is very beneficial, especially as a daily practice - it's always a good reminder imo
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 8 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: fazdazzle]
#13425444 - 11/02/10 07:33 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fazdazzle said:
Quote:
The Chronic said:
Its just that your mind doesn't want to die so will throw up these thoughts like 'removing the 'I' doesn't solve anything...i dont think'
Its the minds job to think, so of course when you try to remove it, it will give you thoughts to counter its own death
BTW the dude who runs that forum threatened to ban me, for posting in his forum!
He also deleted stuff i posted, and accused me of allowing dudes to gangrape a a 15 year old girl.
So if you want strict censorship, you like being told to fuck off & told your full of shit, then join that forum for sure
Laserpig you may think this guy is like some strict zen master, but hes just on an egotistical mission taking his repressed bullshit out on everyone but himself
After contemplating the falsity of the "I" I can't help but feel like my mind can't handle it. It doesn't want it, like you say Chronic....got any advice on that one?
Edit: To be honest, I actually start to get a little nervous when I seem to be getting close
The question "who am i." Follow that question, don't provide an answer. Just take a good honest inward look. Keep looking, there's nothing to be afraid of in there. It has to take place behind the eyelids if you catch my drift.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 9 days, 10 hours
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: fazdazzle]
#13425453 - 11/02/10 07:33 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fazdazzle said:
After contemplating the falsity of the "I" I can't help but feel like my mind can't handle it. It doesn't want it, like you say Chronic....got any advice on that one?
Edit: To be honest, I actually start to get a little nervous when I seem to be getting close
This is exactly what's happened to me!
This morning, my head was spinning with this stuff as I drove to class, and I actually ran to class once I parked, just to deal with the pent-up energy (I am a lazy fuck, so this was unusual).
But yeah, the fear, the nervousness.
For me it's manifesting as an overwhelming urge to distract myself from the question. Go check more threads on Shroomery! Go watch TV! Anything to keep from thinking about it.
Here's what someone on the Ruthless Truth forum said about this:
Quote:
I get it, this is scary when you're as close as you are.
That fear is a last ditch effort of the mind to hold on to your bullshit.
This fear is literally fear of death, its understandable, for what your mind knows, you're killing yourself.
Its generating fear in response.
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oojijimoo
OouuruguruuoO
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 11,774
Loc: ATL GA
Last seen: 8 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: laserpig]
#13425468 - 11/02/10 07:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Knowing this, be still.
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http://soundcloud.com/ufhwhomp like music?
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lolwut
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 582
Last seen: 2 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: laserpig]
#13425783 - 11/02/10 08:21 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said:
Quote:
lolwut said: He doesn't give the rest of the story though, which is how to actually escape suffering for good.
Care to elaborate?
Well, the whole point of a spiritual path when it comes down to it is to remove suffering. Theres a lot of suffering included in life and also imposed on you by others, due to their mindsets, and also imposed on your personal self by yourself. The aim is to transcend the mind and not fall victim to your own self-induced suffering/misery (ego) and to also not be prone to suffering from the suffering around you.
Essentially the only reason you are prone to suffering is because your mindset allows it. I think the first layer is the ego, then the second layer is what comes up after the ego has been removed/not being listened to as much. The latent tendencies that you have collected on your journey through the world, such as the idea of greed and to nourish/ignore it, the things causing anger and hate, and so on. Even without an ego you can still fall prey to these things, because they are there and you're still not Enlightened, still not the master of the mind, still havent seen clearly where, why, or how these things arise.
With the removal of the mindsets allowing suffering, and of the ego, there is no more bad karma produced by you, none felt, everything is just as it is. Suffering still exists in that you can still get sick, you will still die, your loved ones will still get sick and die, but its seen "as it is" with no imposed "I didnt want" or "I want" thoughts on it. Similarly each situation and moment is seen as it is.
He says that himself in this post (http://www.ruthlesstruth.com/arena/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=490&start=20#p6900):
Quote:
What there is is an intense rush of freedom, clarity and the inability to be trapped in or consumed by any belief system. This is not irrelevant. It's like all the cool stuff with none of the zen nonsense.
However - there is a problem. All the dodgy bullshit ideas that have built up in your head stay, and must be addressed. This requires you taking personal responsibility to find the real truth behind your assumptions. Still, you have intense powers of clarity and are basically unshakeable now, so it's very doable.
But you still have to do it.
You still have to do it and thats pretty much the largest part of it. How to see your own thoughtforms and arisens clearly enough to eradicate the things causing them. Then you can stop the transgression of your own negative karma and you won't be influenced/caught up in other's. And the way to do that (for me anyway) is Buddhism + stuff before, but everyone has their own ways I guess.
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To be an angel, you gotta earn your wings
To control your own, you gotta burn your strings
To hit blackjack, you gotta turn a king
But to live forever, all you gotta do is learn to sing
Edited by lolwut (11/02/10 08:22 PM)
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Cups
technically "here"
Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,924
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: oojijimoo]
#13425879 - 11/02/10 08:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Without trying to tell you what's going on in your head I have to agree with guruu here.
Thinking about how "I" is an illusion or whatever is not going to get you very far. Eventually you probably will reach some kind consensus in your head to stop the madness...but since this came from your mind it's kind of like a fat guy saying he's not fat. What ever it takes to get you through the day.
Eventually something will come along and shatter that pipe dream.
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No more words of wisdom.
Edited by Cups (11/02/10 08:50 PM)
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: Tony]
#13427316 - 11/03/10 03:30 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tony said:
Quote:
The Chronic said:
lol the dude banned me
How did you provoke him?
He just didn't like the way i express it & said he wouldn't allow me to 'destabilise' the forum which is ridiculous, i made clear polite posts expressing my viewpoint
The dude called himself 'the great ciaran', power trip, nuff said
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quinn
grimly predictable
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 2,604
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Re: Just in case you wanted to Awaken [Re: The Chronic]
#13427335 - 11/03/10 03:43 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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very sad new fellas...
check to the website.
laser is no longer among us.
if i could just have had that last goodbye
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a fucked of a fuckedness
Edited by quinn (11/03/10 09:18 AM)
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