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 zzripz
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 Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? 
#13258126 - 09/28/10 07:57 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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(first off is this the correct thread for this question. What do you think?):
I am planning on doing a blog about this subject, and thought I would ask at various forums dedicated to psychedelics and experience about this to deepen the research:
I am going to think of 4 significant set and settings for psychedelic experience. IF you can think of any others please don't hesitate to let me know:
1) when you take psychedelics and are in nature, and have eyes mostly open and look at and feel the wonders of nature. Look into a river and see the amazingess of water and light on water, and life in water. Look at a tree, animals, birds, the wind (I have actually seen the wind swirling )
2) A more introspective kind of tripping favoured by the therapeutic community--especially Stan Grof which is based on the psychoanalytical model of looking within, and expericning fears, desires, past memories--and this can involve feeling you are becoming others, and groups, and animals, and nature and even the universe.
This form of psychedelic experience is ancient as well of course, and was called 'Incubation', where the experiencer would take the psychedelic in a cave in total darkness, etc. This contrasted with the 'Field' mode of experience which would be more ritualistic --dancing , and orgiastic in a communal set and setting.
3) Observing people who aren't tripping, and looking at mass media in a way of seeing through social personas and propaganda
Now it is the 3rd one I am interested in talking about. Are any of you familiar with doing this?
See, many sciency types will tell us that when we look at 'reality' we are seeing 'it' in a 'distorted' way---implying that there is a generalized normal rational way of being and seeing. Do you agree with that, and if so why?
But do any of you have the experience of getting insights from seeing through propaganda. If so please let me know and I might include it in my blog.
It could involve being aware of body language---of really being aware of lying eyes, etc etc etc. Whatever please share. I see this as a really important subject.
I see propaganda as a form of magic where spells are put on people, on MASSES of people--and they don't know it's even been done to them.
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wellage
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: zzripz]
#13258181 - 09/28/10 08:11 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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psychedelics can aid in autonomy of thought. they can do just the opposite too.
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zzripz
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: wellage]
#13262838 - 09/29/10 02:05 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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come on psychedelic-experienced people--this question deserved MILES fukin better than this effort (no offense to the only person replying so far)---if those of you think it is sooo ("yawn") boring, then please tell me where on this shroomery forum its been asked before and i will humbly go and check it out, or them out.
Or please tell me WHY you think this question is boring you and not worth tapping your fingers?
Edited by zzripz (09/29/10 02:07 AM)
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Grav
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: zzripz]
#13263549 - 09/29/10 08:13 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, I think they can. For better or for worse, whatever framework of reality you've been conditioned to believe in through institutional means, is significantly disrupted in one way or another.
Have you ever watched the news on LSD? It's one of the silliest things ever.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: Grav]
#13263580 - 09/29/10 08:18 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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There is no special wisdom to be found in psychedelic drug use. Or any other drug use, for that matter. I have often been astounded by the banality of the supposedly profound revelations that have been attributed to some drug experience. It's crap. Trip for fun then go home.
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Grav
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13263672 - 09/29/10 08:34 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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It's a temporary experience. Of course the revelations will seem silly after the drugs are out of your system.
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jimbotron
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: zzripz]
#13263784 - 09/29/10 09:03 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Sure. It helps you reconsider the parts of your thinking that are so firmly ingrained that you don't usually acknowledge them, much less question them.
For example: does money really make any goddamn sense at all?
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Edited by jimbotron (09/29/10 09:08 AM)
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wellage
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: Grav]
#13263795 - 09/29/10 09:05 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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What profound things do people who don't trip realize??
Is it not worth just as much to have that feeling?
If we all made changes towards the banal idiosyncrasies we hold then at least that would be progress towards a profound Revelation.
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 DieCommie
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: zzripz] 2
#13263812 - 09/29/10 09:08 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Psychedelics can open your mind to new forms of propaganda.
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jimbotron
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: DieCommie]
#13263875 - 09/29/10 09:17 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I think that if you simply consider a typical day, and how much of your daily routine you perform without really thinking about it, you'll want to change your life at least a little bit.
Once I had a ridiculously menial retail job, literally just stacking boxes, and during my first-ever mushroom trip it occurred to me that I was doing a robot's job and I was sick of it and there was no reason to accept it. So, I told my boss that I wanted to do more stuff, and suddenly... I did.
Not like I got a raise or something, this was just a bullshit summer job, but I felt like I'd snapped out of some mental holding pattern. (Was just getting over a bad depressive episode.) Previously I'd felt lucky to have the job, then I felt like they were lucky to have me.
It's kinda like breaking a spell. The propaganda, so to speak, was my own: an insecurity rooted in academic struggles and a bad breakup.
Anyway, my life really has been a lot better since that day in a number of ways. Your mileage may vary...
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? (moved) [Re: zzripz]
#13263897 - 09/29/10 09:22 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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 This thread was moved from Political Discussion.
Reason:
more suited to PSP
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wellage
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: DieCommie]
#13263966 - 09/29/10 09:35 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Psychedelics can open your mind to new forms of propaganda.
for ssure!!
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Enlightenedwon
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? (moved) [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13264016 - 09/29/10 09:46 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Icelander
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13264030 - 09/29/10 09:50 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
There is no special wisdom to be found in psychedelic drug use. Or any other drug use, for that matter. I have often been astounded by the banality of the supposedly profound revelations that have been attributed to some drug experience. It's crap. Trip for fun then go home.
I'm pretty sure that would depend on the individual. If it's true for you that it's all just for fun that's cool. For some others it may herald a change in world view.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: Icelander]
#13264150 - 09/29/10 10:18 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Before psychedelics I needed an alcohol fix.
After psychedelics I needed a psychedelic fix.
Before psychedelics I wore a shirt & tie and crew cut.
After psychedelics I wore tie-dye, sandals and dreads.
Before psychedelics I believed in Jesus.
After psychedelics I believed in elves.
How far should I go with this?
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wellage
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#13264157 - 09/29/10 10:21 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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how often does that actually happen?
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Icelander
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#13264280 - 09/29/10 10:48 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Before psychedelics I needed an alcohol fix.
After psychedelics I needed a psychedelic fix.
Before psychedelics I wore a shirt & tie and crew cut.
After psychedelics I wore tie-dye, sandals and dreads.
Before psychedelics I believed in Jesus.
After psychedelics I believed in elves.
How far should I go with this?
As far as you need to same as Zapa.
I myself had a different experience with psychedelics. Thankfully.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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zzripz
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: Icelander]
#13265401 - 09/29/10 02:16 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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My very first trip. I was only 15, and the guy who offered me HALF of a tint tiny blue tablet (LSD was in tablet form then in London mostly), I naively thought it was a 'bluey'--which was slang for speed, and there was a lot in the media news about that. So I took it. But it was powerful LSD!
To get to the point. The central insight I got whilst I was giggling like a crazed fool observing people at a party (they weren't tripping but most likely were stoned) I directly saw their BODY LANGUAGE. And I saw how their body language gave me insight into what they were like behind the social image they were trying to show, and this was so funny to observe i nearly died laughin though i got a few hostile looks of course
So, 1) Body language.
IF someone says that psychedelics 'distort' reality (I recently was in a discussion with these sciency types and one guy who claims to have had plenty of psychedelic experience said "psychedelics fuck with our perception"), then do they mean that eg body language you see is distortion? How could they prove that?
I mean don't psychologists study body language so as to see it? Is there not a deeper direct way of experiencing it--as on psychedelics?
And this would include eyes of course. Ie., aren't psychedelics allowing us to experience what is usually UN-conscious?
Edited by zzripz (09/29/10 02:21 PM)
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bare.whiterabbit
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: zzripz]
#13265621 - 09/29/10 02:51 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I'd say marijuana helps with my ability to see through bullshit in life and become more self-aware and critical, but in a non-debilitating or depressive way.
Otherwise, I wouldn't say that acid or mushrooms have ever helped me seek messages in my daily routine, though it does make me analyze shit, to a fault even, on some occasions, otherwise I'm too busy trippin' and laughing to care about propaganda, but as zzrip said, acid will help rip through the bullshit barrier people front verbally and given up what's being displayed physically.
In terms of any inward analytical focuses, I'm just not that involved with the outside world when I do drop something, so I can't really judge what I feel based on what I see, cause my house is the most comfortable and propaganda free place I know...
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skippyluvs
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Re: Can psychedelics help us to see through propaganda? [Re: Icelander]
#13266045 - 09/29/10 04:26 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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 Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
There is no special wisdom to be found in psychedelic drug use. Or any other drug use, for that matter. I have often been astounded by the banality of the supposedly profound revelations that have been attributed to some drug experience. It's crap. Trip for fun then go home.
I'm pretty sure that would depend on the individual. If it's true for you that it's all just for fun that's cool. For some others it may herald a change in world view.
^ Indeed, almost sounds like he's been missing out
Sucks to be him? 
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