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 sashiva
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 78
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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 bulk substrate AS spawn? 
#13236562 - 09/23/10 03:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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so i have a jar of lions mane almost ready to go and i was thinking, is there any reason why i couldn't just get it colonize a gallon or so of bulk substrate (i'll be using coffee/gypsum soaked coir) and then throw that in the blender and use it as spawn for more coir? nothing in my forum searches say that this is a bad idea but i figured i'd get a second opinion before i went ahead and did it.
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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Spongiform
Some Cow
 
Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13236625 - 09/23/10 03:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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It'll work, but with diminished results. Grain spawn has much more nutrients then bulk substrates so with the standard grain spawn to bulk sub ratios you get a good balance that has good yields.
By using a bulk sub to inoculate a bulk sub you'll end up with much less nutrients and therefore a lesser yield. Depend on how far you go with it you may run into problems with senescence as well.
I had some leftover bulk sub one time, so I loaded it back into my spawn jars hoping the leftover bits of mycelium stuck to the sides of the jars would be sufficient to colonize. It was and I ended up with about 6 quarts of colonized bulk sub with basically no grain spawn in it.
Here's some pics:
I fruited a couple cakes as is and all I got were tiny mushrooms the rest I used as extra spawn for the next bulk run.
IMO, fine if you end up with extra bulk sub and don't want to waste it but I wouldn't bother doing it on purposes.
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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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sashiva
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 78
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13236851 - 09/23/10 04:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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is there any way that i can add enough nutrients to coir to negate this effect? if so can you recommend some nutes? also you utter lack of a pinset on that cake makes me think that nute deficiency isn't the main problem. besides, lions mane naturally grows on straight wood so wouldn't something with similar cellulose levels that is then enriched with coffee and gypsum provide a good nutritious substrate?
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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 Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado 
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13236909 - 09/23/10 04:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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This has a name... super spawning, or something like that.
There's a bit about it in TMC, Stamets said it had been outdated for 50 years.
Doesn't mean it won't work, just that newer methods are better.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Spongiform
Some Cow
Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13236968 - 09/23/10 04:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sashiva said:
is there any way that i can add enough nutrients to coir to negate this effect? if so can you recommend some nutes? also you utter lack of a pinset on that cake makes me think that nute deficiency isn't the main problem. besides, lions mane naturally grows on straight wood so wouldn't something with similar cellulose levels that is then enriched with coffee and gypsum provide a good nutritious substrate?
Your best bet is to just make more spawn and/or switch to more efficient methods for making more spawn such as switching from quart jars to spawn bags.
I haven't grown lions mane yet, so I'm not very familiar with the specifics.
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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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sashiva
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 78
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13237104 - 09/23/10 05:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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well here's my problem, i am trying to make a LOT of spawn as im trying to grow lions mane for money and having a PC big enough to meet my demand would be rather costly so i want to use a lot of pasteurized conditions which is why i want to be able to super spawn. my research on the method says it results in ~30% less yield but thats anecdotal and in bad conditions with a slow species so i figure if i soak the myc in more coffee/gypsum before using it as spawn, i should be able to lower those loses a bit and unless you have a better wood lover large scale spawn production technique, this seems to still result in highest yield for the time i put in. is coffee/gypsum my best bet for the soakings or do you have a better idea?
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13237125 - 09/23/10 05:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Certainly worth trying in your case.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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sashiva
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 78
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13237158 - 09/23/10 05:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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ya, whats the worst that could happen? quick question about the bulk sub tho, is it worth my time to add woodchips? i have a 50 gal bag of dried maple woodchips i got from a chipper months ago and was wondering if it'd be beneficial to add that. also would it be good to get them colonized beforehand with the wood lover smoothie tek and maybe have that supplement the bulk sub spawn a little bit or is that all a waste of time?
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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sashiva
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 78
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: bulk substrate AS spawn? [Re: sashiva]
#13237252 - 09/23/10 05:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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just found this link which has all of the really pertinent info on SS'ing. the tldr is that you can't let the myc sit fully colonized or fruit before spawning it and that's why spongiform had such bad results otherwise its all good. ill def experiment with soaking the SS before spawning it tho for added nutes tho
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9001678
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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