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 mazatec cubensis
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 mushroom hybridisation
#13084070 - 08/21/10 05:46 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Just read a paper on mushroom hybridisation using snake venom.
Are there any other methods of mushroom hybridisation?
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FilamentousFungi
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selecting 2 monokaryons and mating those
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RogerRabbit
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Quote:
FilamentousFungi said:
selecting 2 monokaryons and mating those
Or dikaryons. The snake venom only comes into play if you're trying to cross non-compatible strains.
RR
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FilamentousFungi
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Why the dikaryons? Do you mean that you take two monokaryons from a dikaryotic sample? I would assume that taking monokaryons a & b from diakaryotic sample 1, and monokaryons a & b from diakaryotic sample 2 would be the best way to breed two dikaryotic samples. The genetic possibilities would be as follows-
1a x 1b (dikaryon 1)
2a x 2b (dikaryon 2)
1a x 2a
1a x 2b
1b x 2a
1b x 2b
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FilamentousFungi
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I do not know much of the snake venom, as I worked with many wavelengths UV, and some γ. I then changed direction and went into bacterology/virology, then to plant pathology, and finally in biotechnology. Do you have any links to scientific .pdf of the use of the snake venom, and which types of venom are used.
On another note, if you do decide to do any breeding I have found some nifty tubes for you to check out. These test tubes work well for agar or liquid culture, and if you get a rack you can put them in a lightproof box in the fridge to keep them for a long time. You get a lot of them and I've found that they're reusable. They have some over at hometissueculture and those have screw tops. If the LC is made with some red food coloring to emulate hummingbird nectar, and those tubes with screw caps are used, it would be very difficult to read a label, stating that if the "organic hummingbird food" ever grows mold there is a full money back guarantee, and to realize that there is a LC there. 
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RogerRabbit
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Quote:
FilamentousFungi said:
On another note, if you do decide to do any breeding I have found some nifty tubes for you to check out. These test tubes work well for agar or liquid culture, and if you get a rack you can put them in a lightproof box in the fridge to keep them for a long time.
Those are a bit small for my liking. I use 20mm X 150mm and consider them minimum size for long term storage.
No, I meant crossing dikaryons directly without saving their respective monokaryons. I've been crossing a lot of commercial shiitake strains lately, hoping to find that 'miracle strain' that will perform wonders in my below ground farm.
RR
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FilamentousFungi
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Would the snake venom work for crossing galandoi and samuiensis for a heavy sclerotia former and also to try and have it contain psilosamuiensin?
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RogerRabbit
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I doubt it. The snake venom helps to break down the cell walls, allowing the mycelium to fuse. It's not a cure-all or a sure thing by any stretch. The best I can say is to experiment. You better have a fat wallet though. Purified snake venom is several times the price of pure cocaine.
RR
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mazatec cubensis
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"The snake venom only comes into play if you're trying to cross non-compatible strains."
What about crossing pans and cubes for example would venom definitely be needed then?
Also, If buying powdered venom how do you use that with agar? can it be hydrated?
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troncotron
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selecting monokarions is the best way in my opinion. Is not as hard if you have a cheap microscope and you are patient. I assume when you cross dikarions you are actually crossing monokariotized mycelium from the peripheral zone of the growing colony. The problem is that you don´t know which is the leading nuclei that is mating. If the QTL involved in extremely high growth rate is, for example, linked to A1, and your result is A2B1 because matA2 was in the the leading nuclei, you are loosing this trait. On the other way, if you isolate some monokarions and test their traits your breeding system will be more efficient (also you´ll have a lot of work). Example:
Mon1(A1B2) ---- fast growing
Mon2 (A2B1) ---- slow growing/ early fruiting when mats with Mon5 (B1) or Mon7 (A2B1)
Mon3 (A1B2) ---- Very productive when mats with Mon4 (B2)
Edited by troncotron (08/27/10 11:07 AM)
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mazatec cubensis
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Re: mushroom hybridization [Re: troncotron]
#13113652 - 08/28/10 09:34 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Hemotoxin or neurotoxin for snake venom?
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FilamentousFungi
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I was wondering what type of snake. I can order one off of venomousreptiles.org and would be willing to milk it myself. Hmm...
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eVenom
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Quote:
FilamentousFungi said:
I was wondering what type of snake. I can order one off of venomousreptiles.org and would be willing to milk it myself. Hmm...
the problem with that is sterilizing it because snake venom breaks down in such high heat so it needs to be added after the agar gets PC'ed.
That is one of the reasons the dry sterilized snake venom is so expensive
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eVenom
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RR
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Ritual
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Re: mushroom hybridization [Re: eVenom]
#13130560 - 08/31/10 06:37 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Use Cholera bacteria in place of snake venom.
You can get a culture of it for free probably from a local University (There are non pathogenic strains).
Cholera will remove the chitin(cell wall) of the fungi just like snake venom would. Also the agar that you use to grow fungi can be used to grow cholera as well.
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FilamentousFungi
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Re: mushroom hybridization [Re: Ritual]
#13133866 - 09/01/10 12:50 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ritual said:
Use Cholera bacteria in place of snake venom.
You can get a culture of it for free probably from a local University (There are non pathogenic strains).
Cholera will remove the chitin(cell wall) of the fungi just like snake venom would. Also the agar that you use to grow fungi can be used to grow cholera as well.
How do you easily get rid of the Cholera Bacteria after it's introduced?
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Lennybernadino
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Hemotoxin
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RogerRabbit
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Quote:
FilamentousFungi said:
Do you have any links to scientific .pdf of the use of the snake venom, and which types of venom are used.
http://www.alohamedicinals.com/cordy_IJMM_hybrid_article.pdf
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 Pinback
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I can't find anything pointing towards chitinolysis by snake venoms. Where can one read about it?
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Feelers
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Re: mushroom hybridization [Re: Pinback]
#13134490 - 09/01/10 03:00 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Has no one suggested protoplast fusion? There's a good paper on fusing 2 types of oyster mushrooms - pink and white from what I remember.
Here you go http://www.thaiscience.info/Article%20for%20ThaiScience/Article/2/Ts-2%20protoplast%20fusion%20between%20pleurotus%20ostreatus%20&%20p.%20djamor.pdf
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Ritual
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Quote:
FilamentousFungi said:
Quote:
Ritual said:
Use Cholera bacteria in place of snake venom.
You can get a culture of it for free probably from a local University (There are non pathogenic strains).
Cholera will remove the chitin(cell wall) of the fungi just like snake venom would. Also the agar that you use to grow fungi can be used to grow cholera as well.
How do you easily get rid of the Cholera Bacteria after it's introduced?
You have to re-plate the sample to an agar that is only friendly to the growth conditions of the fungi and unfriendly to the growth of cholera. Cholera cannot multiply unless on very specific types of agar.
Edited by Ritual (09/01/10 10:57 PM)
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nexus1946
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Re: mushroom hybridization [Re: Ritual]
#13141082 - 09/02/10 10:37 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Fascinating!
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The Story Of Russell The Texas (Cube) Bear
 
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troncotron
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
The snake venom only comes into play if you're trying to cross non-compatible strains.
RR
Hello, I´m very interested to know which is the % of success (approximately) when you cross incompatible strains, specially when working with monokaryons. I work with P.Ostreatus and have more than a hundred monokaryons isolated with their mating type known. It would be really nice to see how snake venom breaks incompatibility barriers.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: mushroom hybridisation [Re: troncotron]
#13145996 - 09/04/10 07:16 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Monokaryons aren't strains. It takes two monokaryons to form a dikaryon, which is a strain. I've never experimented using snake venom on monokaryotic mycelium.
RR
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
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troncotron
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The term "strain" is widely used when referring to monokaryons in every publication related to fungal genetics/biotechnology.
http://www.google.es/search?q=monokaryotic+strain&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:es-ES:official&client=firefox-a
Edited by troncotron (09/04/10 01:41 PM)
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albertz
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Re: mushroom hybridisation [Re: troncotron]
#13163625 - 09/08/10 03:13 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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one poster commented on how expensive venom is, well you may for kicks want to try using a product called cobroxin, new pain killer on the market made from cobra venom, can be bought on the shelf at most drug stores and on the internet, they have a regular strength and a perscription strength, worth a shot anyway.
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Freaky
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Re: mushroom hybridisation [Re: albertz]
#13166648 - 09/08/10 04:50 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Is it possible to hybridize edible mushroom?
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FilamentousFungi
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Re: mushroom hybridisation [Re: troncotron]
#13170090 - 09/09/10 10:46 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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That's what I was under the impression of. For nomenlature purposes henceforth I suggest that when referring to strains and breeding it would be very helpful if people would use Mstrain and Dstrain to show mono- vs dikaryon strains.
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