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 fapjack
Slap my sack
Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 7,343
Loc: Central New Jersey
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 US border violence: Myth or reality? 
#12968182 - 07/28/10 05:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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US border violence: Myth or reality?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10779151
By Katie Connolly BBC News, El Paso, Texas
US Flag near Mexico border With Arizona's controversial immigration law due to come into effect this week, the national debate over border security is poised to reignite
Fears over Mexican drug cartel violence near the border are fuelling the debate over immigration and border control, but is the idea that the killings are spreading into the US just a myth?
Related stories
* Arizona judge hears immigration law challenge
* El Paso feels Mexico drug war
* Inside Mexico's most dangerous city
Once upon a time, Spanish settlers named the crossing El Paso Del Norte - the pass to the north.
The border city of El Paso, Texas, lies along the Rio Grande, in the chasm between two inhospitable mountains.
Each day, thousands of people in cars, buses and on foot cross the short bridge that connects El Paso with its Mexican sister city, Juarez, one of the world's most dangerous places.
In the past two years, more than 5,000 people have been murdered in Juarez as drug-related crime has soared.
Politicians, including Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, tend to portray border towns as being pushed to crisis point.
"We see this crime on a daily basis. The federal government must respond more effectively, step up their enforcement and protection of the border before more American blood is shed," Mr Abbott told Fox News.
"It is more dangerous to walk the streets of Juarez, a few blocks from El Paso, than it is to walk the streets of Baghdad. There is a very serious problem that is beginning to bulge at our borders and put American lives at risk."
In mid-July, President Barack Obama ordered 1,200 National Guard troops to patrol the border, just days after a car bomb exploded in northern Juarez, very near El Paso.
Map of El Paso region
Texas Governor Rick Perry called that deployment "grossly insufficient". Many politicians are calling for even more troops.
But the mayor of El Paso, John Cook, isn't one of them.
Second safest city
"The reality is we really don't need the help on this side of the border. We probably have every kind of federal law enforcement agency that you can think of. We're an extremely safe community," Mr Cook says.
Despite Juarez's murder toll, in El Paso, local authorities have recorded just two murders this year. In 2009 there were 11.
America's safest cities, 2009
Continue reading the main story
1. Honolulu, Hawaii
2. El Paso, Texas
3. New York City, New York
4. San Jose, California
5. Austin, Texas
6. San Diego, California
7. Seattle, Washington
8. Portland, Oregon
9. Denver, Colorado
10. Los Angeles, California
Source: CQ Press City Crime Rankings 2009-2010
"Logically it would seem that if you have violence on one side of the border then you're going to have spillover on the other side," says Mr Cook. "But the reality is that we don't."
According to FBI crime statistics, El Paso is the second safest city in America. Crime rates there have dropped 36% over the past 10 years.
Other cities close to the border, including San Diego in California and Phoenix in Arizona, have similarly experienced declines in violent crime.
Over the same period, federal agencies have beefed up their presence along the border, and a 2,000-mile fence is slowly being constructed.
The fence near El Paso is 16-18 feet (4.9-5.5m) high, made of rust-coloured steel mesh. There are 2,700 border police in this sector, monitoring the border day and night, and a raft of FBI, CIA and drug enforcement agents.
Mr Cook questions the need for more troops, given that current border security levels appear to have been effective at containing drug violence south of the border.
Additionally, both he and local border enforcement officials believe that the leaders of drug cartels do not believe it is in their interest to bring the violence north.
Cities with highest crime, 2009
Continue reading the main story
1. Detroit, Michigan
2. Memphis, Tennessee
3. Baltimore, Maryland
4. Washington, DC
5. Atlanta, Georgia
6. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7. Indianapolis, Indiana
8. Columbus, Ohio
9. Milwaukee, Wisconsin
10. Dallas, Texas
Source: CQ Press City Crime Rankings 2009-2010
Drug barons know that the response from the US government would be swift and heavy, and further hinder their ability to smuggle drugs into the lucrative American market.
Locals worry that with an even heavier security presence in town, El Paso risks becoming like Cold War Berlin, a riven city, its character disrupted by an imposing divider wall.
They believe politicians who don't live on the border fail to appreciate the deep interconnectedness of cities like Juarez and El Paso, which Mr Cook describes as "one city joined by a border".
So with crime rates declining and the border stable, how has this relatively safe Texan city found itself in the centre of a political firestorm over border violence, and the Obama administration's plans to deal with it?
Politics and fear
Border historian David Romo says it is a pattern. He's seen politicians fanning fears about the border before.
The first calls to build a border fence in El Paso to secure the city came in 1908. Back then, the fear was Chinese immigrants. In World War II, politicians worried about Germans streaming across.
Border patrol vehicle A variety of surveillance methods are used - helicopters, 4WDs, checkpoints, dogs and horses
These days, it's Mexicans who fuel unease. Mr Romo says that during times of economic distress, the border and the immigrants who cross it are used as scapegoats. He believes history is repeating itself, and politicians are using the same rhetoric they have for decades.
"It happens that every time an election year comes up, they know that creating fear and hysteria about the border will drive a wedge," Mr Romo says.
"In some ways it's cheap vote-getting. There is this cycle of kind of nativist hysteria that is very profitable for politicians. Nothing gets votes like the politics of fear."
Mr Romo says he's not seen evidence of violence infiltrating the El Paso community. He argues that the immigrants who make a new life across the border are motivated to act within the law because they fear being deported.
While Arizona Governor Jan Brewer blames immigrants, illegal and otherwise, for violent crimes and burglaries, Mr Romo says that, ironically, those immigrants have the most incentive to be law-abiding. They don't want to draw attention.
Bleak outlook
Although fears of spillover violence aren't substantiated by crime data, they are having a real impact on the economy of El Paso.
Juarez Parts of Juarez are poor - El Pasoans say they see Juarez locals washing clothes in the river
"From an economic development perspective, it's been very negative for us," Mr Cook said.
He has difficulty convincing new businesses to set up in El Paso because of the violence in Juarez. The first question he gets asked in business meetings is usually "is it safe?"
"They don't pay attention to the fact that we are the second safest large city in the United States," he says.
"We've had people who have looked to locating here with their companies and we have to convince them that it's a safe place. They almost don't believe you."
The longer the violence continues in Juarez, the bleaker the outlook becomes for El Paso, despite its impressive safety record.
For now, there's little more Mayor Cook can do but wait.
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piracetam
bioanalytical chemist
Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 4,072
Loc: TX 
Last seen: 17 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: fapjack]
#12968736 - 07/28/10 06:48 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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great post.
it doesn't surprise me that Faux news pushes for more border security, they've always had some biased agenda to allocate tax dollars to homeland security in response to perceived "threats". 'terrorism' is the catch term of the times, mccarthyism in a new flavor.
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benzyme of the Nexus
"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.
In an evolving universe, who stands still moves backwards." ~R.A. Wilson
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Led Zeppelin
Tripper
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 1,819
Last seen: 15 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: piracetam]
#12968774 - 07/28/10 06:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
piracetam said:
great post.
it doesn't surprise me that Faux news pushes for more border security, they've always had some biased agenda to allocate tax dollars to homeland security in response to perceived "threats". 'terrorism' is the catch term of the times, mccarthyism in a new flavor.
Still, if you believe theres not massive fighting going on down there your a fucktard. talk to those who LIVE there,
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If acid puts you in the drivers seat, and mushrooms put you in the passenger seat...then DXM puts you in the trunk
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piracetam
bioanalytical chemist
Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 4,072
Loc: TX
Last seen: 17 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: Led Zeppelin]
#12969349 - 07/28/10 08:39 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:
piracetam said:
great post.
it doesn't surprise me that Faux news pushes for more border security, they've always had some biased agenda to allocate tax dollars to homeland security in response to perceived "threats". 'terrorism' is the catch term of the times, mccarthyism in a new flavor.
Still, if you believe theres not massive fighting going on down there your a fucktard. talk to those who LIVE there,
in Juarez? i'm not denying that.
is El Paso a warzone?
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benzyme of the Nexus
"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.
In an evolving universe, who stands still moves backwards." ~R.A. Wilson
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aiyobro
Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 8,689
Loc: Outer Space
Last seen: 20 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: piracetam]
#12969607 - 07/28/10 09:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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dude there are BODIES between el paso and juarez...
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whatever123
Whatever I did, I'm sorry
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 2,613
Loc: San Diego, CA
Last seen: 11 months, 14 days
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: piracetam]
#12969637 - 07/28/10 09:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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This is incredibly interesting stuff. Good to know.
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Koala Koolio said:
there should be a 3 month waiting period between registration and posting. 
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piracetam
bioanalytical chemist
Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 4,072
Loc: TX
Last seen: 17 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: aiyobro]
#12969668 - 07/28/10 09:49 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
aiyobro said:
dude there are BODIES between el paso and juarez...
apparently
but those mass graves aren't on the US side, which is El Paso, TX.
redneck americans are the most gullible pieces of shit in society, very stupid people
Edited by piracetam (07/28/10 09:54 PM)
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SmokeSomeHash
Littlest Pee Pee
Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 83
Loc: texas
Last seen: 18 days, 6 hours
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: Led Zeppelin]
#12969867 - 07/28/10 10:36 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I live there.
not el paso, but mcallen tx.
if you dont know how close to the border that is, get on google maps.
just to clarify some things for the skeptics up north, we have daily newspaper headlines talking about car bombs, corrupt mexican police killing teens, cartels with human meat grinders, drug cartels raiding homes in my neighborhood dressed as fake police and DEA officers, and just about every other thing you could think of.
When I was 16 back in high school we would make the 20 minute drive across the border for all the cheap beer we wanted and awesome tacos.
now I dont even like going to the south side of town.
ive lived here all my life, raised here...and ill be the first to say that it fucking sucks.
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whatever123
Whatever I did, I'm sorry
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 2,613
Loc: San Diego, CA
Last seen: 11 months, 14 days
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: SmokeSomeHash]
#12969948 - 07/28/10 11:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I don't mean to be aggressive or argumentative with you here, but all you've done is shown us that the media has been successful in promoting a fear culture in your area. The statistics presented in the article indicate that the fear is unfounded, at least on the US side of the border.
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Koala Koolio said:
there should be a 3 month waiting period between registration and posting.
Edited by whatever123 (07/28/10 11:02 PM)
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SmokeSomeHash
Littlest Pee Pee
Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 83
Loc: texas
Last seen: 18 days, 6 hours
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: whatever123]
#12970185 - 07/29/10 12:41 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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i dunno about you but having drug cartels dressed as fake cops raid houses in your town...
ill say again that i live about 20 miles from the border.
theres immigrants everywhere, and most of em are pretty fucked up criminals.
if you only knew some of the stories we witness first hand on a daily basis, youd know just how bad these immigrants are.
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 SouthernGulfStyle
FreeDriftinSpirit
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 3,130
Loc: texas,usa
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: whatever123]
#12970219 - 07/29/10 12:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Go to a border town such as Brownsville Texas or Laredo Tsxasand you will change your mind its like the wild west and i thin opposite of yall i think the media hides more than it shows actually
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Awebig Faggot said " Nice fucking question, shivers blood.
Seriously, go." ahahah A prime example of getting mad through a computer
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aiyobro
Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 8,689
Loc: Outer Space
Last seen: 20 hours, 17 minutes
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Dey Took Er Jobs!!
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durian_2008
Cornucopian
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 1,792
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: SmokeSomeHash]
#12972678 - 07/29/10 02:29 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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My life experience is far more rich than xenophobic, but I know things I didn't want to know in Southern California.
I'll give the macho, vaquero guys credit for their superficial respect of basic chivalry, but race does tend to be the lowest common denominator in the Hegelian dialectics of the workplace, streets, and backwoods.
I can only advise people on either side to show disciplined decorum, where restraint is feasible, and sincere bravery, where it is not.
No matter which ethnicity or subculture you belong to, society picks over outward appearances with a fine toothed comb. They remember how you act and will judge others who look like you.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'THEY'
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 6,478
Loc: Southwest US
Last seen: 1 hour, 1 minute
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: fapjack]
#12975080 - 07/29/10 10:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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It is real. Juarez used to be a place to go to and get GOOD H, speed, and pot....now it is so bad you can't go. There is a lot of shit that you don't hear, like Border Patrol agents getting their heads cut off and mailed home, etc. But I heard that the violence hasn't spilled into El Paso much. I don't know how any drugs get into the US through the El Paso/Juarez Border crossing, as tight as it is, unless the huge tractor-trailers going across under border under the NAFTA agreement are for some reason not being searched by the Border Patrol....
It's a fucking travesty.
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piracetam
bioanalytical chemist
Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 4,072
Loc: TX
Last seen: 17 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: starfire_xes]
#12975725 - 07/30/10 05:38 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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i'll tell you what's a fucking travesty...the tactics of the cartels.
they're making it very difficult for the immigrants that actually want to come over legally to make an honest living.
they're also making us (american-born of mexican descent) look bad, not that gang members haven't done that already.
i agree with durian. when you see this kind of shit in the news, it doesn't paint a nice picture of mexicans in general, since many people take the news at face value.
--------------------
benzyme of the Nexus
"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.
In an evolving universe, who stands still moves backwards." ~R.A. Wilson
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durian_2008
Cornucopian
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 1,792
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Re: US border violence: Myth or reality? [Re: piracetam]
#12978088 - 07/30/10 05:25 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
piracetam said:
they're also making us (american-born of mexican descent) look bad, not that gang members haven't done that already.
The word alien is actually in some translations of the Bible. It says not to oppress the alien, as we were aliens in the land of Egypt.
I grow, cook, and eat stuff that most Americans have never heard of. I know enough Spanish to understand the ballads. I have been called to emergencies, done improvised work besides day laborers, and defended the honor of your women, many of whom I have dated.
I know that you will tend to stick together, and crime goes unreported when it may be seen as a reproach to your people.
Stupid whites are too guilted to show eachother the solidarity which might seem like common sense to you.
This is how whites used to act.
Quote:
piracetam said:
i agree with durian. when you see this kind of shit in the news, it doesn't paint a nice picture of mexicans in general, since many people take the news at face value.
You guys aren't getting it. The news doesn't touch this stuff. Really. Don't watch the news.
I'm not telling people to act like punks and attract attention to themselves. I'm saying to be prepared for the worst and try to go out like a gentleman if you have to.
The men who were caught unawares, at the wrong place and the wrong time, were the ones who thought it wouldn't happen to them.
Quote:
piracetam said:
redneck americans are the most gullible pieces of shit in society, very stupid people
Lowly, Marxist laborers, who undercut the living wage, will fulfill ID requirements to get the govt benefits, and they will take care of eachother.
Staunch libertarians will be undocumented, unemployed, and treat eachother like garbage. You are called reactionaries, because you never seize the initiative.
There are armed gunmen, roving the desert, saying they're not racist against immigrants, so long as they have ID. The official purpose behind amnesty is intended to get people documented. 
I've actually read the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. When you were told one day that the border changed, and that you must assimilate by law, the border did cross you.
But, if whites were organizing on behalf of whites, we would be going to Mexico to interact with Mexicans. 
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