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 The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
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Loc: 
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 Are humans meant to be awakened beings? 
#12829050 - 06/30/10 04:14 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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A lot of the time we hear people saying enlightenment is the natural state of humans, that external interference has cut this illuminating energy off
Do you reckon this is true?
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 bloodsheen
ChemChaplin
 
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: The Chronic]
#12829062 - 06/30/10 04:16 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well considering enlightenment is a concept that you have to learn about, and theoretically learning is not the original state of beings, I would say no. I mean, is a human from over a million years ago more enlightened than me? I somehow doubt it
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: bloodsheen]
#12829081 - 06/30/10 04:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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When you LEarn something you ADD IT TO YOU, Waking up is something you remember
Like when you wAKE UP FROM a dreAM YOU REMEMBER who you ARE, YOU Cant reALLY LEarn it if you ARE IT
you drop the fALSE DREam & stAY TRUE as you
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,034
Loc: NY
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: The Chronic]
#12829085 - 06/30/10 04:21 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think Ego has its place. What is not Ego you could say is the background noise, and that is Enlightenment. I think humans are supposed to be more in balance between these two poles. The negative in the world could be equated as the mass ego.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: The Chronic]
#12829088 - 06/30/10 04:22 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
A lot of the time we hear people saying enlightenment is the natural state of humans, that external interference has cut this illuminating energy off
Do you reckon this is true?
Depends on what you mean by enlightenment, doesn't it?
If a coyote in it's natural state is enlightened then the same would hold true of the human primate.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12834658 - 07/01/10 03:41 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well we obviously aren't mean to all be awakened all the time. But I do think that the way it's "supposed" to be involves the majority of people awakened to their souls.
It's only in 21st century western civilization that we find such a spiritual bankruptcy. Throughout history I reckon most people have been much less materialistic and were thoroughly aware of the reality of the psyche.
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Icelander
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: g00ru]
#12834685 - 07/01/10 03:46 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Read some ancient history for an eye opener. And unless you consider religion spirituality you're quite wrong imo.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12834767 - 07/01/10 04:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm pretty educated on history, what I said was just my opinion, but it's just deductive reasoning...people with less distractions from the harsh realities of life would be much more aware of the interaction between their inner and outer worlds. That doesn't mean they saw spirituality in an intelligent way, but most people I think have been aware of the non material foundations of our existence.
Especially tribes, I was just reading a Carl Jung essay where he talks about how in primitive tribes they frequently ascribe parts of their "soul" to a special animal or tree or something. When they see this tree or animal, they see themselves. This is a perfect example of people who have not been conditioned to place hard and firm barriers between inner and outer, and as such recognize a part of their inner being in an outer form. It just goes to show how our more natural assumptions will probably tend towards a non-materialistic outlook, unless you grow up in a scientifically materialistic nation in which case you have to come to things from a different perspective.
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Icelander
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: g00ru]
#12834807 - 07/01/10 04:12 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well in the major ancient cultures most humans were superstitious and believed in the Gods and such and were changing that dependent on the decree of the new leaders. They seem to be mostly like people are today. Ask 100 people on the street today if they are "spiritual" and I'll bet ninety percent or better say they are.  Woop dee doo!
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12834819 - 07/01/10 04:15 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah certainly most people are superstitious and don't have a true understanding of anything. But I'll take benevolent superstition over boring materialism any day.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
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Loc: NY
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12834854 - 07/01/10 04:22 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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You see Icelander, your view of reality is completely different from mine. You say Superstitious and equate it with ignorance and irrationality. IMO, it is trans-rational. I talk to spirits. Does that make me crazy? Listen to a shaman drum CD, and if you can get that rational voice in your head to shut up, you can journey to other worlds and converse with spirits. I'm not trying to validate anything, I'm saying it works. I'm not talking about make believe. I'm talking about experiences, some of which appear more real than whatever mundane reality you think is all that is. Take a psychological perspective and say I am accessing aspects of myself. It's all the same though. Just because you have shut yourself off to these experiences doesn't mean they weren't a real part of peoples lives in certain cultures, especially the more mythic cultures.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 80,498
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: g00ru]
#12834916 - 07/01/10 04:37 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
yeah certainly most people are superstitious and don't have a true understanding of anything. But I'll take benevolent superstition over boring materialism any day.
You are deeply involved in materialism whether you like it or not. Materialism is a good thing imo. It allows us to observe our world and make the most of it. To the person who is intelligent enough to really become involved that is plenty of fun. It in no way negates our abilities to love, care, play, dream, etc. IMO if humanity was ready to deal with their insecurities about material life and death we would have a very benevolent world that would be a ton of fun to romp around in. Sadly that may never be the case and a big reason many look for something else to believe in.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12834923 - 07/01/10 04:39 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
You see Icelander, your view of reality is completely different from mine. You say Superstitious and equate it with ignorance and irrationality. IMO, it is trans-rational. I talk to spirits. Does that make me crazy? Listen to a shaman drum CD, and if you can get that rational voice in your head to shut up, you can journey to other worlds and converse with spirits. I'm not trying to validate anything, I'm saying it works. I'm not talking about make believe. I'm talking about experiences, some of which appear more real than whatever mundane reality you think is all that is. Take a psychological perspective and say I am accessing aspects of myself. It's all the same though. Just because you have shut yourself off to these experiences doesn't mean they weren't a real part of peoples lives in certain cultures, especially the more mythic cultures.
Looks like you have a shallow perspective on where I'm coming from. Read my above post.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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WScott
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12836712 - 07/01/10 10:49 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Restrained human beings are more easily controlled. The more control, the easier it is to create something out of us?
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12837006 - 07/01/10 11:45 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
guruu said:
yeah certainly most people are superstitious and don't have a true understanding of anything. But I'll take benevolent superstition over boring materialism any day.
You are deeply involved in materialism whether you like it or not. Materialism is a good thing imo. It allows us to observe our world and make the most of it. To the person who is intelligent enough to really become involved that is plenty of fun. It in no way negates our abilities to love, care, play, dream, etc. IMO if humanity was ready to deal with their insecurities about material life and death we would have a very benevolent world that would be a ton of fun to romp around in. Sadly that may never be the case and a big reason many look for something else to believe in.
embracing the physical world is one thing, i agree most people don't even do that. We suck even on our own plane 
but just because we are physical beings doesn't mean awareness of non-physical reality isn't valuable or even necessary.
for the record, I think everything's physical, it all has mechanical clockwork at some level, but at a certain point it manifests basically as non physical. like dreams. Obviously something physical is going on but to relegate dreams to the physical world is retarded imo.
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NastyDHL
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: bloodsheen]
#12837080 - 07/01/10 11:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bloodsheen said:
Well considering enlightenment is a concept that you have to learn about, and theoretically learning is not the original state of beings, I would say no. I mean, is a human from over a million years ago more enlightened than me? I somehow doubt it
Sure, 'enlightenment' is a concept and concepts are learned, but what if the concept is of natural state of being? What if you are learning about the original state of being, that you have 'been learned out of' by society?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: g00ru]
#12837123 - 07/02/10 12:07 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I must be retarded cause I'm not really following you. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12837146 - 07/02/10 12:11 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah well you should try some dream exercises or something so you can know what everybody's talking about.
Ya know how when you dream everything's different? To me, that seems a non physical reality. The laws of the physical world don't hold, and yet at the time of dreaming you feel as if you're in a whole different world.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: g00ru]
#12837222 - 07/02/10 12:21 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm a lucid dreamer.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Posts: 17,655
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Re: Are humans meant to be awakened beings? [Re: Icelander]
#12837274 - 07/02/10 12:29 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well then you should know man. That's a whole reality you can inhabit, a 100% different environment, and it's not physical. DMT and Psychedelics can do the same thing. If you do certain meditative exercises, you can learn about yourself in a way that is not materially manifest.
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