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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: twighead]
    #12793111 - 06/23/10 08:44 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Publicly denouncing your supreme commander doesn't really seem like appropriate behavior for a high ranking general to me.




Some places, you get beheaded for that.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Tesla]
    #12793115 - 06/23/10 08:44 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

fuckin Patton goddamnit he had a big mouth and he got shit done! i think this is a sad day because it was inevitable that McChrystal resigned. he publicly questioned his commander in chief.  obama is his superior and at such a high profile level he knows to save face for everybody he needs to leave. the thing is he probably was a qualified general and had the right ideas, yet these politicians have to play their bullshit games. i say fuck it go all out draw back your troops that are spanning all over the fucking globe and blow some dudes up in caves. then go fuck up iran as they are dicks, set up puppet government bring back troops and call it a day.

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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: relativexistance]
    #12793138 - 06/23/10 08:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
bring back troops and call it a day.




Yep.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Doc_T]
    #12793157 - 06/23/10 08:51 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

they cant just do that, look at the past history. it just leaves turmoil for future generations. im sorry but sometimes you have to be the bad guy to be the good guy. they need to go balls to the wall and commit, they just don't have nearly enough troops there to end this. right now its just a slow bleeding of our military.

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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: relativexistance]
    #12793197 - 06/23/10 08:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

and its not just "lets go install a military state, its that if we are destroying this region and occupying it, lets do it right. lets start building permanent institutions and elements beneficial to the local population to show that we care. im sure the us gov has built quite a bit and continues to do so, but i argue that they are one foot out the door with it. when you don't have enough soldiers you aren't setting a precedent to win. maybe that was the goal as well we have no idea. maybe the grand scheme was to make a somewhat unstable region, even more unstable for somebodys diabolical plan idk.

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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: trekie]
    #12793201 - 06/23/10 08:57 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

:hitler:

He's either ignorant...or extremely intelligent.


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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: relativexistance]
    #12793392 - 06/23/10 09:22 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
they cant just do that, look at the past history. it just leaves turmoil for future generations. im sorry but sometimes you have to be the bad guy to be the good guy. they need to go balls to the wall and commit, they just don't have nearly enough troops there to end this. right now its just a slow bleeding of our military.




Nobody has ever taken Afghanistan, and we won't either.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: memes]
    #12793493 - 06/23/10 09:36 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
I think John Stewart should run the war in aFghanistan.  Him and Vice General Colbert




I think we should remove all the allied forces from Afghanistan, stick a great big hose in there, and give it an enema.  It's the asshole of the world.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Doc_T]
    #12793584 - 06/23/10 09:46 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

relativexistance said:
they cant just do that, look at the past history. it just leaves turmoil for future generations. im sorry but sometimes you have to be the bad guy to be the good guy. they need to go balls to the wall and commit, they just don't have nearly enough troops there to end this. right now its just a slow bleeding of our military.




Nobody has ever taken Afghanistan, and we won't either.




The Durranis did, the Mughols did, the Timurid's did, etc.

But I know what you're trying to say :tongue:


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Doc_T]
    #12793656 - 06/23/10 09:57 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i dont think i ever said we need to take afghanistan or that we have. although if we exerted our whole military might, we could.

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: relativexistance]
    #12795134 - 06/24/10 06:15 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
i dont think i ever said we need to take afghanistan or that we have. although if we exerted our whole military might, we could.



LOL yeah, like we took Vietnam right?

Afghanistan is a lost cause, always has been...
We should help them set up a legit exportation business using their poppies to cure the worldwide pain med shortage, and then GTFO as a whole.
Maybe leave some special OPs teams to deal with the "terrorists", and some to help run the drug business, but other than that, it's hopeless.


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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Adamist]
    #12795190 - 06/24/10 07:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

there the OTD of the world, seriously think about it


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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #12795376 - 06/24/10 08:32 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I think the United States is genuinely capable of taking Afghanistan. I just don't think it's going to be easy or low on casualties. We have a nearly unlimited military budget or at least one that gives us more than enough logistical resources and in addition to that we have arguably the best trained military in the world.

Fact of the matter is people are getting sick of the headlines revolving around troops getting killed and families losing their sons and daughters. One of the many downsides of post modern media is how real war gets for the average civilian. People simply don't have the stomach for it especially after Vietnam and other defining occupations that shifted civilians towards a more peace centric attitude.

The truth is a single war let alone a historically arduous occupation has never been strategically ran or won by a pacifist civilian. I see a lot of half baked ideas some of which I'm sure are coming from the right place in this thread but none of them really suggest how we could succeed in the occupation that well lets face it.. were in for the long haul.It's a lot easier to armchair quarterback a pullback of troops from a region than it is to suggest an effective battle strategy. That's why I don't suggest logistics as a civilian blindly. I understand I have the freedom of speech to make these suggestions and have these opinions but they are just that opinions based off of a limited civilian based life.

If nothing else I feel like were capable of inflicting major damage to the Taliban and other splinter terrorist organizations. It won't be easy but in my opinion I feel like if we never shoot the big gun off there's no point in spending billions on cleaning it every year.

The issue however is also the international communities willingness to negotiate peacefully at the expense of their neighbors safety and stability. As well as Karzai's proven corrupt nature. Simply put our best bet right now is inflicting casualties financially and otherwise because I don't think we can sustainably keep the region stable.

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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Tesla]
    #12795397 - 06/24/10 08:42 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It'll still take a few more decades to fully convert them to democracy and Christianity, but eventually we will make it happen whether they like it or not.


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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Tesla]
    #12795628 - 06/24/10 09:45 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tesla said:
I think the United States is genuinely capable of taking Afghanistan. I just don't think it's going to be easy or low on casualties. We have a nearly unlimited military budget or at least one that gives us more than enough logistical resources and in addition to that we have arguably the best trained military in the world.




As a technical matter, yes. But we don't have the willpower for it. Neither did the Soviets.


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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Doc_T]
    #12795676 - 06/24/10 09:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

Tesla said:
I think the United States is genuinely capable of taking Afghanistan. I just don't think it's going to be easy or low on casualties. We have a nearly unlimited military budget or at least one that gives us more than enough logistical resources and in addition to that we have arguably the best trained military in the world.




As a technical matter, yes. But we don't have the willpower for it. Neither did the Soviets.




As we stand now your 100% correct. That's why I think it's time to recalibrate how we look at the situation. What they lack in budget and resources they seem to make up for in heart and dedication to the conflict.

Something that any military would benefit greatly from especially given the historically morale crushing region were fighting this war in right now.

In addition to that we need to start employing more psychologically based warfare considering the suppport the Taliban has from the region. We need to essentially turn the supportive population against them. As for how we do it I have no idea.

If we tame that beast it really serves as a reminder to other more domesticated yet hostile regions not to tempt us.

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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Tesla]
    #12795685 - 06/24/10 09:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Or we could try not to piss off so many people.


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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Doc_T]
    #12795732 - 06/24/10 10:06 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Problem is their already pissed off. Pissed off at women pissed off at Zionists pissed off at post modern society... their just  really pissed off to the point that I don't think they can ever be counted on as a viable party to work with or trust. The human rights violations in themselves are a valid excuse for the occupation not even taking into consideration the hotbed of terror activity there.

I see it like this. Even if your the instigating party you don't go and slap a predatory animal in the face than go and try to take it to obedience training hoping it will forget. You destroy it. It may not be a morally attractive option but I frankly don't think effective warfare and morality are a commonly mutually exclusive pair to begin with either.

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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Tesla]
    #12795756 - 06/24/10 10:11 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tesla said: The human rights violations in themselves are a valid excuse for the occupation.




I disagree, that sets a terrible precedent.


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Re: McChrystal asked to resign by Obama over Rolling Stone Article Petraeus to take over in Afganistan [Re: Doc_T]
    #12795800 - 06/24/10 10:24 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Its up for them to decide what they do and don't allow in there country, over there they dig opium, so they must view the way we deal with drugs as human rights violations.  It all just depends on your point of view


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