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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc.
    #12757318 - 06/17/10 09:33 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hey all, first off - I am not very educated about nutrition at all. I'm only just turning a corner in that aspect. Up until about six weeks ago, I essentially chose what I was eating based on one lonely criteria - what taste(s) I wanted in my mouth.

What happened six weeks ago? I took part in an ayahuasca ceremony.  The ecstatic experience of purging was beyond compare, and as I vomited and vomited I intuited an incredible mind-body connection. I knew exactly what I was purging...it was processed food residue, gunk, and I started thinking as I puked about the meat I ate.  See, I could never be a vegetarian, but what I'm striving to be now, in the six weeks since my ayahuasca ceremony, is a more conscious carnivore.  I've just finished reading Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma and feel great about my decision.

The only time I eat meat now is if it comes from the farmer's market (where I know it's been pastured, lived a good life, not pumped full of antibiotics and hormons, etc) - or if I go to a farm-to-table restaurant.  Since all that kind of meat is more expensive, I pretty much have cut meat out of my diet completely. I used to subsist largely on coldcuts, too, so this is a HUGE shift for me.

Right now I'm sitting here and I'm slowly* recovering from a nasty case of strep throat.  My sister thinks I'm vitamin deficient from not supplementing what i WAS getting from meat with other things. Can anyone give me insight into this? THink she's right?


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12757341 - 06/17/10 09:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hard to say she is right, but hard to say she is wrong. Obviously when you're sick, you aren't getting the nutrients you need, and thats OK because its not often you get sick and NORMALLY not long enough to impact your vitamin storages/food storages. (So the odds are you have lower-than-normal vitamin levels, but you still have SOME)

If you REALLY want to be good on meat, you should try eating fish. Salmon in particular. No mercury and all the health benefits of fish. Fish is literally the best kind of meat you can eat and isn't a painful process to the fish (from what I understand) tons of omega-3, natural creatine and more.

Farmers market is always a good idea when you know you're eating a healthy cow who lived a happy life.

Not sure what exactly you are asking, if you have something more specific in mind I'll answer the best I can. :thumbup:

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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12757370 - 06/17/10 09:49 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks man. I guess I'm wondering if there were certain things I was getting from my meat intake that I'm not gettng significantly less of by just focusing on grains, fruits and vegetables.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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OfflineMchaggis
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12757401 - 06/17/10 09:59 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feifen said: No mercury





Wait wait wait. It was my understanding that all fish unless aquacultured contained heavy metals and even then were present in trace amounts simply because of the pervasiveness of human mercury pollution.

I'm not trying to sling this off topic nor naysaying, I'd like a source if possible.


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I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12757448 - 06/17/10 10:15 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mchaggis said:
Quote:

feifen said: No mercury





Wait wait wait. It was my understanding that all fish unless aquacultured contained heavy metals and even then were present in trace amounts simply because of the pervasiveness of human mercury pollution.

I'm not trying to sling this off topic nor naysaying, I'd like a source if possible.




Okay.. I should take that back, it has extremely low levels compared to other fish that its not really mentionable because other fish like tuna have extremely high levels :shrug:

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12757464 - 06/17/10 10:18 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
Thanks man. I guess I'm wondering if there were certain things I was getting from my meat intake that I'm not gettng significantly less of by just focusing on grains, fruits and vegetables.




Proteins, lipids, iron, zinc, selenim and some essential vitamins come directly from meat.

You want complete essential amino proteins like chicken breast or fish (or even hemp seeds..)

You could honestly get all nutrients from a plant-grain-soy based diet. :shrug:

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OfflineMchaggis
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12757535 - 06/17/10 10:36 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feifen said:
Quote:

Mchaggis said:
Quote:

feifen said: No mercury





Wait wait wait. It was my understanding that all fish unless aquacultured contained heavy metals and even then were present in trace amounts simply because of the pervasiveness of human mercury pollution.

I'm not trying to sling this off topic nor naysaying, I'd like a source if possible.




Okay.. I should take that back, it has extremely low levels compared to other fish that its not really mentionable because other fish like tuna have extremely high levels :shrug:




Ahhhh now that I'll buy for a dollar.

Reason I ask is because I'm going off grid with these vegetarians and I have no firearms/bb guns and my protein options are limited to fish. It's a far upper confluence of the Tennessee, so the PCB/mercury levels are much lower in their fish than the river fish I'm used to eating, and the rainbow trout is prolific up there, and it's in Salmonidae, I dunno I thought maybe salmonids absorbed less PCB/mercury than other species.

This topic is pertinent to me as well, considering I'm going to be pescetarian.


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12757560 - 06/17/10 10:42 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I am essentially an pescetarian, it is the VERY rare occasion that I eat something other than fish for meat

I've eaten so much salmon I kinda crave for it when I wake up in the morning :lol:

I would recommend a fish based diet over any other kind of meat though. Salmonoids are definitely the genre you should aim for too. They are the perfect lean meat just loaded with nutrients.

Most salmon species have trace amounts of Mercury, so it isn't a very honorable mention to worry about mercury, but with species like tuna who have exceptionally high mercury, you should maybe eat it once or twice a week (if you like it) I personally hate the taste of tuna

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OfflineFreedom
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Registered: 05/26/05
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12758327 - 06/17/10 02:24 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I accidentally became a vegetarian for two years. I mostly ate a wide variety of vegetables and carbohydrate sources. Sometimes I had a desire for some extra protein and I'd eat tempeh or tofu.

There is a cool thing you can do to get an idea of how different types of food affects you. Basically you do a fast, and when you reintroduce food, you do it one food type at a time. So you might start with leafy greens, then other vegetables, then fruit and work up to meat.

If you are a careful observer you can learn a lot about what it feels like when your body needs certain things.


If you lift weights or are highly active in other ways, then you want to be extra careful though.

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Offlinebeerock9
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Registered: 04/13/10
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: Freedom]
    #12758573 - 06/17/10 03:21 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

hey OMR ... are we ever going to see your trip report for your ayahuasca ceremony? i've been looking forward to it as it's something i'd like to experience ...

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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Registered: 09/02/02
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12758941 - 06/17/10 04:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It is unlikely you are missing anything in your diet as long as you are eating a variety of whole, plant foods.

Sometimes vegetarian girls will have problems with low iron especially due to iron loss during menstruation.  Sometimes vegans will have low levels of B12, but this isn't a problem with vegetarians.

In any case there is no reason why you should be experiencing any sort of vitamin deficiency after 6 weeks.

I am careful and take a multivitamin, B complex, and flax oil for omegas each day.  They are probably unnecessary but, omni or veg*n, why not just make sure you have all your bases covered?

But yeah, literally the only nutrient you cannot get on a vegan diet is B12, which can easily be supplemented for.  And you are not even eating vegan so this is clearly not the case.  And B12 deficiency takes a long time to develop, and the deficiency does not make you more prone to sickness...

I think you will come to learn that concerned family members and taunting friends / coworkers will be quick to blame any physical malady on your decision to abstain from eating meat.

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Offlinefazdazzle
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Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12758951 - 06/17/10 04:46 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feifen said:
Hard to say she is right, but hard to say she is wrong. Obviously when you're sick, you aren't getting the nutrients you need, and thats OK because its not often you get sick and NORMALLY not long enough to impact your vitamin storages/food storages. (So the odds are you have lower-than-normal vitamin levels, but you still have SOME)

If you REALLY want to be good on meat, you should try eating fish. Salmon in particular. No mercury and all the health benefits of fish. Fish is literally the best kind of meat you can eat and isn't a painful process to the fish (from what I understand) tons of omega-3, natural creatine and more.

Farmers market is always a good idea when you know you're eating a healthy cow who lived a happy life.

Not sure what exactly you are asking, if you have something more specific in mind I'll answer the best I can. :thumbup:




That's not obvious to me, care to explain why that is? I think even the healthiest people get sick sometimes.

OMR, you should start at least taking a multivitamin; this is the one I take:

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Adam-Superior-Men-s-Multi-120-Tablets/380?at=0

Some people complain about the "naturalness" of vitamins...I guess if you feel that way, then there is no real argument against it, but I feel like I would need to eat an ideal (unideally expensive) diet which would give me everything that a vitamin does. I started feeling amazing after starting to take multivitamins, so based on that anecdote, I make my recommendation.

IMO, saying that this strep throat is being caused by a deficiency in something that meat gave you, is a little ridiculous. Maybe if you rarely, if ever get sick, then suddenly you stop eating meat and you get sick, then you might be able to draw a conclusion. You're probably just sick, like what happens to everyone else.

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: fazdazzle]
    #12759202 - 06/17/10 05:31 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

:lol: I should stop posting when I'm really high.

I re-read and now realized that the sister meant he was sick BECAUSE of the vitamin deficiency. This is definitely not the case, you were probably sick with something that caused it.

Btw, fazdazzle, while multivitamins are a nice supplement they should not be your main focus of getting your vitamins in, you should have a whole balanced meal if you really want to reap the benefits of a multivitamin. (which you honestly won't even need with a balanced meal)

:thumbup:

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12759221 - 06/17/10 05:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

A doctor friend of mine told me everyone should take fish oil and vitamin D

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: Freedom]
    #12759491 - 06/17/10 06:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Add more honey, bee pollen as they are full of vitamins and other good stuff....You can get B12 from unfitered beer...


--------------------
:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:

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Offlinemetalmorph
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12760838 - 06/17/10 10:17 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Although, you're not entirely a vegetarian,I'm going to tell you this like I would any new vegetarian. New vegetarians who do not think about the change in their nutritional intakes lack the most in protein, B-vitamins, zinc and Iron.

So what can you do to get by this?

Protein is what you have to look out for, the symptoms of protein deficiency is lethargy. You do not need whole proteins to live, You need amino acids to live. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, when you eat whole proteins in beans or meat, your body must first digest those proteins into it's simpler form (amino acids) before your cells can actually use it to build it back into proteins within your body. Essential amino acids are the amino acids you must eat for protein synthesis.

There are only 8 essential amino acids. You need to eat leafy greens, beans, an assortment of vegetables. Animal proteins contain all 8 essential amino acids, you don't need to worry about it as much if you still eat meat.

Quinoa and hempseed :happyweed: are awesome sources of amino acids.

To touch on the soy issue, it's okay to eat soy, yes, they have a lot of protein in them, but it's unnecessary to eat soy products a lot.  It's bad to eat it more than once a week because it can cause sterility and impotency and a lot of vegeburgers and soy based anti-meat things are loaded with sodium, which can cause hypertension and weigh issues.

Zinc, you can get this from whole grains, which you should be eating anyway and nuts.

B-vitamins are hard to come by as a vegetarian, so, either eat fish, or take a multi-vitamin that contains B12

Iron. Iron is easy. Eat spinach. Spinach not only has iron in it, but it contains vitamin E which increases your iron absorption rate. Try not to eat spinach more than twice a day, or else you may get a kidney stone.

Eat out of the farmers markets! Produce from the farmers market has much more nutritional values that supermarket foods, they are usually cheaper, and they taste better!

I'm a vegetarian myself, and have had to keep on the ball on all of this information because I usually get harassed by people saying that vegetarians are stupid.

Do your best to nignore the propaganda in this website, but they have so good info on the nutritional things too look out for if you're becoming a vegetarian, or eating less meat. http://www.vegsoc.org/


:vegan:


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Offlinefeifen

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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: metalmorph]
    #12760907 - 06/17/10 10:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Why are you saying soy products are bad? I drink soy milk daily and use it for oat meal. I would pick soy milk over normal milk ANYDAY. Soy is extremely useful as an aid in my diet, not to mention the health benefits of soy.

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Offlinebcblackout

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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12761087 - 06/17/10 10:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

OMR - interesting story and great choice! When I stopped eating meat, it really helped to make meals with vegetarian friends. I could see how they used stuff like tofu and made balanced meals. Fresh veg, grains, beans - you're set.

I still eat fish too, but yeah, don't overdo it, it's all contaminated as far as I'm concerned. And aquaculture fish is fed hormones, antibiotics, corn-based muck, just like any industrial livestock.

I've heard those negative health aspect about soy too. And industrial soy farming is a bad scene. Note the source.

Don't forget to add mushrooms. Nutritious and vitamin packed.

Japanese food is a good way to go.

And as others have pointed out, vegetarians are oft harassed by carnivores. Just remember that eating meat is THEIR problem - not yours.

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Offlinemetalmorph
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: feifen]
    #12762553 - 06/18/10 09:15 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

feifen said:
Why are you saying soy products are bad? I drink soy milk daily and use it for oat meal. I would pick soy milk over normal milk ANYDAY. Soy is extremely useful as an aid in my diet, not to mention the health benefits of soy.




Except recent studies saying that it causes infertility.

Except that soy is a GMO

Except that soy is grown with so many chemical pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers


--------------------

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
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Re: Been eating a LOT less meat - need advice on supplementing vitamins, etc. [Re: metalmorph]
    #12762906 - 06/18/10 10:41 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

1. Not worried about being infertile, I already am, I don't think the world needs more people anyway.
2. And the health effects of it being a GMO is......?
3. Not all soy is, and how again is this a health problem? Get all natural soy from farmers market like I do, I don't think they use any :shrug:

So far from what you're saying the positive health effects of soy greatly outweighs the "cons"

Edited by feifen (06/18/10 10:42 AM)

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