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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
Loc: underbelly
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 Explain to me again.
#12584245 - 05/18/10 07:11 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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How this universal consciousness, if it exists, is ultimately love directed?
When walking this morning my big old dog treed a young raccoon. It looked so scared up in that little tree with Kilo trying desperately to get at it. Then I remembered that Kilo is one of the sweetest dogs I've owned and that raccoon would have no trouble tearing into a nest full of young helpless newborn birds. This isn't even taking a hard look at how primates, including and especially humans, behave much of the time.
Now explain to me again how a consciousness that expresses itself in these ways is all about love and niceness? Cause it really doesn't make sense to me. Especially if one is going to claim that this consciousness is very very aware. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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 NastyDHL
breaking the cycles
 
Registered: 04/04/08
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12584284 - 05/18/10 07:19 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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fear or love
and bewildered animals (including humans) fall into the fear category
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12584337 - 05/18/10 07:30 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Separate things in nature will naturally consume other separate things to survive, its the only way it can work for a while
The realization of consciousness beyond the separate forms is a unified field of consciousness
That unity is felt as Love, the lack of separation, just like when you hug your dog or your gf you feel love/the lessening of separation
(assuming you do feel love when you hug your dog or gf)
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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As im sure you know by now anyway, no explanation will do
Whats the use explaining how love feels or what it is
Its much better to fall in love & experience that ineffability that swallows your sense of self
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cc2
Mush
Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1,687
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I'm with the no explanation theory, though too simple
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
Loc: underbelly
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its the only way it can work for a while
Why? And how do you know?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
As im sure you know by now anyway, no explanation will do
Whats the use explaining how love feels or what it is
Its much better to fall in love & experience that ineffability that swallows your sense of self
This has nothing to do with my question as far as I can tell. You're off topic.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander] 1
#12584478 - 05/18/10 08:08 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
its the only way it can work for a while
Why? And how do you know?
Theres the evidence of most species on this planet feeding on each other
Then theres also the evidence of some few beings who have gone beyond that and live off sunlight, water & air
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circastes
i did it for tha bliss
Registered: 01/14/10
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I think the malice and ferocity in nature is just a selection of a game plan. How else could this universal consciousness conjure the values of courage and valor, without malice and ferocity? (for example).
Remember there is only one Self. So who or what suffers, at any time? No one, it is chosen mistakenly.
Everythings ultimate state is love, because that's the nature of the universal consciousness. It's not love so much as perfection or peace, imo. You have to have the pure experience of it directly, unfettered by thought, to understand.
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Find me in the backyard, sailing my kettle. Playing poker with insects, wearing a cup of tea. A hat of brimstone, yellow-crimson, looking like a giant flea. Forever my friend: so my energy this day I lend, I practice faking it to pretend, and become the actor in the end. My folly hangs on the trees like leaves and drips in the falling breeze, the tock of a minute here shakes me to my knees.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: circastes]
#12584612 - 05/18/10 08:39 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Everyone always talks about fear/love. What about hate?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
its the only way it can work for a while
Why? And how do you know?
Theres the evidence of most species on this planet feeding on each other
Then theres also the evidence of some few beings who have gone beyond that and live off sunlight, water & air
What???????? What does that have to do with knowing things have to be this way only for awhile?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: circastes]
#12584744 - 05/18/10 09:15 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said:
I think the malice and ferocity in nature is just a selection of a game plan. How else could this universal consciousness conjure the values of courage and valor, without malice and ferocity? (for example).
Remember there is only one Self. So who or what suffers, at any time? No one, it is chosen mistakenly.
Everythings ultimate state is love, because that's the nature of the universal consciousness. It's not love so much as perfection or peace, imo. You have to have the pure experience of it directly, unfettered by thought, to understand.
How else could this universal consciousness conjure the values of courage and valor, without malice and ferocity?
But this is exactly my point and the one no one addresses. Why would a universal consciousness need to conjure these values if it was already it's primary values and it's was already everything?????
Remember there is only one Self. So who or what suffers, at any time? No one, it is chosen mistakenly.
If there is no one who suffers there would have to be no one who chooses suffering. ?????
Everythings ultimate state is love, because that's the nature of the universal consciousness.
Rather, imo, it seems this is the reaction of humans who cannot handle nature and creation the way it actually appears. They must put love at the center or all their anxieties are aroused.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Tony
Stranger
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585023 - 05/18/10 10:15 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Love is something the heart desires, right? Something wants to be accepted as it is. Something wants unconditional love. Where can you get that kind of love? Nowhere. You are that love. Within you everything arises and falls. You do not judge. You observe. How simple is that?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Tony]
#12585181 - 05/18/10 10:50 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Something also wants to hate and fear and covet and excite and all that other shit.
What does this have to do with my question?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Tony
Stranger
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585289 - 05/18/10 11:12 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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But can you ever find that which hates, fears and covets? Aren't these just energetic movements that awareness observes?
What I was trying to express with "the heart desires love" part is that there is something that seems to want love. This is an absurd desire, although very authentic in a sense. That all-accepting love is already present, watching and not judging.
What more could you ask for?
Edited by Tony (05/18/10 11:19 AM)
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 c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585344 - 05/18/10 11:22 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Duality cannot be reconciled in convention, but only transcended. Your dog is the raccoon. Emptiness. It can't be intellectualized, only felt.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Tony]
#12585366 - 05/18/10 11:28 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tony said:
But can you ever find that which hates, fears and covets? Aren't these just energetic movements that awareness observes?
What I was trying to express with "the heart desires love" part is that there is something that seems to want love. This is an absurd desire, although very authentic in a sense. That all-accepting love is already present, watching and not judging.
What more could you ask for?
You also never can find that which loves. Again you are not responding to my question as far as I can tell.
Also how is love an absurd desire? It's ingrained in us as infants to seek it out for survival purposes.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,567
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Duality cannot be reconciled in convention, but only transcended. Your dog is the raccoon. Emptiness. It can't be intellectualized, only felt.
What does this have to do with answering the question I asked?
If I don't feel something it doesn't exist then. And so this brings me back to my OP.
Now to say it can only be felt would either be true or just avoiding a painful truth by avoiding a reasonable response.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 seconds
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585419 - 05/18/10 11:40 AM (2 years, 12 days ago) |
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Your not going to get a reasonable response because the idea I speak of is trans-rational. It can not be understood by the mind - the mind is what clouds the understanding. Mind implies duality - at it's core it the subject-object distinction. When you begin to identify with the awareness behind the "I" thought you may feel the emptiness I speak of.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Cognitive_Shift
@shroomery.org
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Posts: 22,230
Loc: OhighO 
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By the definition of consciousness you cannot experience universal consciousness unless you have expanded your own.
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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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