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Offlinemau5noize
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Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 13
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: a little help, slow growth rate of mycelium [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12501620 - 05/03/10 08:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

the jars weren't contaminated fully. too much water caused a slime to build on the bottom but on the top was pure white mycelium. a week plus ago we decided to make weak cakes with them and just start a  new batch, with tyvek for proper gas exchange. but because the mycelium in the casings was good, it began to grow in the casings and now the casings look like they had full jars put into them, not scraped jars. so there not contaminated, no mold, coloration, or smell. there starting to pin and they look fine.

tajmajal420: yeah we knew the foil wasn't going to allow gas exchange back when we first started colonizing the jars so we had gas exchange holes in the lid and GE was never really a problem. the problem in the jars was that we had to much water. when we prepped the rye we boiled it for less than an hour, then put them in the jars and pressured cooked those for a lil over an hour. oh and the rye soaked for a day plus. then after pressure cooking we put 2cc in every jar.

our fruiting chamber however is to the book. fresh damp perlite. humidity at 99%, temp around 75 or less, cold water misting. I'll increase the FAE and i might add a light small fan. also to drop the temp a little, cause it sometimes reaches 78 degrees, i added some Ziploc bags full of ice. but if the mycellium doesn't need to be shocked then i will remove the bags of ice. I'm thinking of dropping the temp to the 60's. right now its 72. the mycellium just doesn't seem to stop growing. the top layer is completely covered, and there was at least half inch of verm.

but whatever happened with the jars, incubating, and colonizing doesn't matter at this point since there now in the fruiting chamber and look like healthy casings.

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Offlinetajmahal420
Stranger than some....

Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 533
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: a little help, slow growth rate of mycelium [Re: mau5noize]
    #12501686 - 05/03/10 09:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mau5noize said:

tajmajal420: yeah we knew the foil wasn't going to allow gas exchange back when we first started colonizing the jars so we had gas exchange holes in the lid and GE was never really a problem. the problem in the jars was that we had to much water. when we prepped the rye we boiled it for less than an hour, then put them in the jars and pressured cooked those for a lil over an hour. oh and the rye soaked for a day plus. then after pressure cooking we put 2cc in every jar.





If the foil is on too tight, the holes in the lid won't make any difference.

By boiling less than an hour, I hope you mean ~50 minutes less than an hour.

By pressure cooking for a lil over an hour, I hope you mean ~30 minutes more than an hour.

And, 12-24 hours.  Not 24 hours plus on the soak.

I think we nailed down the bacterial contamination.

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OfflineSpongiform
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Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
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Re: a little help, slow growth rate of mycelium [Re: mau5noize]
    #12501702 - 05/03/10 09:19 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I see a couple things wrong here.  Unless it's very cold where you keep your jars, ditch the incubator or set it to a lower temp in the 70-75f range.

Higher temps not only slow the growth you want down, it speeds up growth for contaminate molds and bacteria.  It can also screw with your moisture content by causing excess condensation which can either dry your jars out or cause water to pool in the bottom.

Also incubators tend to be closed up.  So you've got a hot, humid and stale environment.  Co2 can build up, stalling out the growth and promoting contaminate growth.

Also bear in mind that the mycelium produces heat while it grows causing the jars to be warmer the ambient temperatures.  For quart jars i'd expect them to be, at some point, 3-5f over ambient temps. 

Same goes with your trays.  Incubating at 80f is risky, since it'll produce a lot of heat itself.  The top may look fine but the middle or bottom may be a different story.  I've had tubs that looked just fine, then had massive contaminates sprout up from underneath after a few days.

You're probably better off just incubating out on an open shelf,


Now for your lid setup.  You need to provide filtered gas exchange.  Tyvek is your best bet here.  Micropore and bandaids are not sufficient.  The mycelium needs to breath, as it grows the Co2 levels will build up and if it can't breath it will stall out the growth.  Keeping the tinfoil over the lid can restrict the gas exchange so you want to avoid that.  Tin foil is just to keep excess water from getting in during pressure cooking and that's mainly for the PF tek because it has open holes.  With an injection port + tyvek the tin foil is not necessary at all.

So in summary - Ditch the incubator unless you live at the north pole and fix your lids and you will see much better results.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Offlinetajmahal420
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Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 533
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: a little help, slow growth rate of mycelium [Re: Spongiform]
    #12501721 - 05/03/10 09:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Wet rye + too warm = problems.  Good call, Spongi

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Offlinemau5noize
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Registered: 04/06/10
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Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: a little help, slow growth rate of mycelium [Re: tajmahal420]
    #12501840 - 05/03/10 09:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

no i know, i ditched the incubator. right now on the coast its warm and the natural room temp can easily colonize the jars. right now on our batch of jars we used tyvek and did the smaller jars with 4 holes for inoculation. its been about a week and they look better than the last ones did after a month.

and taj: hahaha yeah i know we screwed up on the rye. we went with a different substrate. some horse/ cow shit that's been sterilized and pressured cooked along with some other substrate. 20 jars total. and the jars are grouped in 4 sets of 5, with each set being identical in substrate to see which one works best but so far they all look perfect.

in the last rye batch: it soaked for 24 hours. then boiled for 30-40 mins, the pressured cooked for 80mins. we cut corners on the jars and that was what went wrong. but hopefully these casings will continue to pin and fruit nicely. the only thing i see wrong with them now is that the mycelium continues to grow but maybe with the temp drop it will slow down and focus more on fruiting.

should i leave the ice packs in and let the FC drop below 70 maybe to the low 60's? or should i just let it be at 75 and just fan it everyday and hope that works?

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OfflineSpongiform
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Posts: 3,994
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Re: a little help, slow growth rate of mycelium [Re: mau5noize]
    #12501856 - 05/03/10 09:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

75f is fine for fruiting.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Offlinemau5noize
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Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 13
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: a little help, slow growth rate of mycelium [Re: Spongiform]
    #12519405 - 05/06/10 09:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

yeah thanx. there growing nicely.i say and lil less than a week and they'll be ready.

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