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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality
    #12383070 - 04/13/10 12:50 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)



For some reason I am attracted to these sorts of people.  They resemble ordinary people at first glance; and in fact you could never tell the difference from just a casual conversation or random encountering.  But these people have no soul and no heart with which to feel pain, and they thrive on manipulating others to their own benefit.  It's not that they don't care; I'm sure they do care about the world in some sense... after all they are human after all.  But they don't care enough about other people to ever be capable of true, meaningful friendships or love, the greatest blessing we have.  They are usually egomaniacs who get an energy boost from putting other people down, or by telling lies about them behind their back in order to cause drama.  They are in every position of government around the world; they are in every corporate office around the globe; they are your neighbor or who you thought was your closest confidante.  Usually they are attracted to positions of power because this enables them to spread their domination over others, but often times you won't see them directly because they are the true masters of lies and deceit... they are the puppet master behind the figurehead.  They use lying as a tool to spread their goals and they could care less about YOU as a person, just about YOU as a tool to be manipulated and used.

The reason why I am writing this is because I myself have encountered a few people like this during my short time on this Earth (21 years of age), and I have gotten burned badly.  My best friend Keaton I met back in high school; an incredibly gifted kid with an aptitude for theoretical physics and computer games.  I eventually moved in with him and a couple other roommates and we had great times to be sure... parties every night, hot women over often, and great conversations about life, philosophy and the Universe.  But then I slowly started to notice that while I thought he was my best friend, he was instead a lying, cheating bastard.  He never directly hurt me, but I noticed that he was telling one of my friends one thing while he was telling another a completely different thing... just to cause drama.  Little things like that; discrepancies that you don't quite notice while you're blinded to them because you still think that your "friend" cares about you.  But as soon as you're no longer of use to them, you will get dumped or burned.  He's currently roaming the streets of Santa Cruz, lying and cheating and addicted to heroin (and of course he absconded with his grandmother's savings through sheer manipulation to support himself for however long it took him to run out of it).  Usually these people have no gift of foresight for the future and instead think only in the short term... how can I use this to my advantage?  What can I do now to make my life better?  (Instead of the normal human question of what I can do to improve the life of my friends and loved ones, in turn improving my own?)

These are People of the Lie, and they are so gifted at it that you won't recognize them for who they truly are until the mask comes off.  Angelina Jolie from the movie Girl, Interrupted is another excellent example of a sociopath, only this time female (usually these sorts of people manipulate men to give them money and lodging).  I find myself fascinated by their personalities (which is only natural, considering they have crafted them for years expressly TO fascinate people) but I would only observe these folks from a distance... being burned once is enough for me.  They might not intend to cause pain and suffering, but their actions sure do cause them, and although I forgive them for their sins I know they cannot forgive themselves because they have no heart with which to forgive.  They will dig at your insecurities, your deepest fears, and your greatest weaknesses in order to use you... not to mention your capacity for love.  But this is misplaced because one cannot love a crocodile... one can only observe them safely behind zoo cages.  And the greatest trick that the crocodiles ever pulled was convincing the world that they don't exist.

The Mask of Sanity is a great book on this topic if anyone's interested.

Quote:

Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.

You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.

How will you live your life?

What will you do with your huge and secret advantage, and with the corresponding handicap of other people (conscience)?

The answer will depend largely on just what your desires happen to be, because people are not all the same. Even the profoundly unscrupulous are not all the same. Some people - whether they have a conscience or not - favor the ease of inertia, while others are filled with dreams and wild ambitions. Some human beings are brilliant and talented, some are dull-witted, and most, conscience or not, are somewhere in between. There are violent people and nonviolent ones, individuals who are motivated by blood lust and those who have no such appetites. [...]

Provided you are not forcibly stopped, you can do anything at all.




http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

Just thought I would write this up because I've noticed many, many people in the Spiritual and Mystical fields tend to use people's goodheartedness to their advantage; either by ripping them off with claims of enlightenment for only $29.99 or by forming cults like Jim Jones or Charlie Manson.  Stay strong to your morals and always keep love in your heart, because there are people out there who don't.  :peace:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher]
    #12383094 - 04/13/10 12:57 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

You cannot give these people love and expect them to overcome their problems; they will take your love from you and steal all your energy.  The reptilian overlords will gladly smile when you try to embrace them and then they will stab you in the back.  Instead the best solution is tough love: a metaphorical bullet and a gun.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher]
    #12383159 - 04/13/10 01:18 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

They are usually egomaniacs who get an energy boost from putting other people down, or by telling lies about them behind their back in order to cause drama.  They are in every position of government around the world; they are in every corporate office around the globe; they are your neighbor or who you thought was your closest confidante.




They are programs running as results of trauma.
All of them.
The lying, deceitful manipulative girl was abused as a child.
The war hungry president saw his father buttfuckin the mother.
and so on..

They attract you , because you wish to pry them open.
They usually show you , what they want you to see.
But they don't know what you really want either.
You wish to pry yourself open.


--------------------

---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: jivJaN]
    #12383165 - 04/13/10 01:20 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
You wish to pry yourself open.




What do you mean?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher]
    #12383167 - 04/13/10 01:23 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I am feeling really paranoid tonight for some reason.  Fear is growing strong around me; I feel like I need some sort of protection.



--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher]
    #12383200 - 04/13/10 01:38 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Like a christmas present.
Pretty wrapping..
but you want more.


You want to pull out there eyes , dig into their skulls..
Tear off the skin  and burrow through the flesh..
...at the end.. you find yourself crying in a pool of blood and guts at the edge of your sanity, devastated that you have found.. nothing ..

Pretty wrapping.. but you wanted more.
You .. are more.


--------------------

---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 52,515
Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: jivJaN]
    #12383203 - 04/13/10 01:39 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure if I really want anything besides good friends and love, though, and I already have these.  :lol:

things aren't as pretty on the inside


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher]
    #12383208 - 04/13/10 01:40 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

That's exactly what "they" would say.


--------------------

---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: jivJaN]
    #12383211 - 04/13/10 01:42 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

:omg:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12383224 - 04/13/10 01:46 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

lol
im just messin around :lol:

:bigjoint:


--------------------

---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: jivJaN]
    #12383250 - 04/13/10 01:58 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Don't freak me out like that man.  :rofl:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher]
    #12383283 - 04/13/10 02:09 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
The war hungry president saw his father buttfuckin the mother.


:lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher]
    #12383540 - 04/13/10 04:14 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: jivJaN]
    #12383616 - 04/13/10 04:55 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

They are programs running as results of trauma.
All of them.


Nurture rather than nature.:thumbup:


--------------------
     

“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker


"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno." 


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InvisibleOlympus Mons
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12383674 - 04/13/10 05:34 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

i know a guy who is like this and claims to be a christian. he uses it as a shield that allows him to manipulate. As fucking ridiculous as he is i really respect him for his art form. ya know, like in the same way you respect an evil genius.


--------------------
I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....


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OfflineForestHermit
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: Olympus Mons]
    #12383698 - 04/13/10 05:44 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


But as soon as you're no longer of use to them, you will get dumped or burned.




Such is the programming of our disposable society. We are taught to be selfish and greedy. Most accept this and become drones of a disposable but a handful resist the programming. You are looking in the wrong places for the wrong things, simply put.


--------------------


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InvisibleOlympus Mons
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: ForestHermit]
    #12383706 - 04/13/10 05:46 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

the guy im talking about married a girl b/c she has two degrees in music and he thinks he's going to be this awesome musician.


--------------------
I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....


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OnlineTony
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: Icelander]
    #12383712 - 04/13/10 05:49 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I'm also both fascinated and scared of psychopaths. But thus far I've found that they're rather sad characters, and I think we have little to fear of them as long as we know what is good for all (but do we?) and are able to identify those things that are not (but are we?).

Sometimes the anger people feel toward these people, especially when it's not personal, might have something to do with their own desire to get away with selfish actions. They have the programming that stops them from acting out the most selfish deeds, but when they see someone who has bypassed their inhibitory programming their own selfish centers become indignant. They feel they ought to have the right to do it too, or no one at all. Most people are extremely prone to bending or breaking the rules, as long as there is someone else who does it first or some authority who is apparently taking partial blame. (the prison experiments...)

Of course there's more to it. No one probably really wants to live in a dystopian world where everyone has to be constantly looking out for back-stabbers. That's probably one reason why most(edit: some) people cling on to humanistic ideals, and righly so. Psychopaths don't buy into this, because they don't subscribe to the democratic principle of "every vote counts". They are special by the virtue of their own specialness, and they know that their one vote for selfishness is not going to change the world for the worse, at least not to their own detriment.


Edited by Tony (04/13/10 05:51 AM)


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OfflineForestHermit
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: Olympus Mons]
    #12383714 - 04/13/10 05:50 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Olympus Mons said:
the guy im talking about married a girl b/c she has two degrees in music and he thinks he's going to be this awesome musician.




He learned to be this way. He chose to accept society's programming. His selfishness will be his undoing sooner or later and catastrophe will result. Things will go horribly wrong repeatedly. I truly believe in karma.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: On cult leaders, sociopaths and pathological liars in Spirituality [Re: ForestHermit]
    #12383728 - 04/13/10 05:54 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I doubt that is true in all cases and some who do good suffer greatly. I think the concept of karma is dangerously flawed.


--------------------
     

“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker


"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno." 


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