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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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 Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord.  [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12235844 - 03/20/10 10:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
likewise if you are the type that can't fix houses for the most part you shouldn't be a landlord. granted there are times when you have to hire a plumber or electrician (sometimes it's the law for a rental) but otherwise you better be mr. fixit.
I disagree with this very much. The reason I don't do my own landscaping is not because I can't mow a lawn. It's because I can better utilize my time and skills. There are thousands upon thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives. There are also lots of handy schmucks who lose money because they fail to perform due diligence. A savvy business head is worth a lot more than proficiency with a hammer or wrench.
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 LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
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Loc: The Hand
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: zappaisgod]
#12236100 - 03/20/10 12:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
likewise if you are the type that can't fix houses for the most part you shouldn't be a landlord. granted there are times when you have to hire a plumber or electrician (sometimes it's the law for a rental) but otherwise you better be mr. fixit.
I disagree with this very much. The reason I don't do my own landscaping is not because I can't mow a lawn. It's because I can better utilize my time and skills. There are thousands upon thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives. There are also lots of handy schmucks who lose money because they fail to perform due diligence. A savvy business head is worth a lot more than proficiency with a hammer or wrench.
Got a link to all those "thousands and thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives"? Cause frankly I think that is BS. Not to say most landlords should attempt major remodels on their own, but most landlords can turn a screwdriver or a wrench. If you can't fix minor stuff that is expensive to have done by others (leaky toilets, faucets, replacing light switches and fixtures, etc) you will be losing money to the plumbers and electricians.
Not sure why some of you folks seem to think that property purchasing and landlording is such a profitable business that you can do it without being thrifty with repairs and maintenance but that is nonsense. The other realty is that if you haven't done various work yourself you really won't even know how much it should cost or what should be involved which is really a recipe to get hosed by some contractor.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12236171 - 03/20/10 12:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you are both right. I lean toward the thrifty side and try to do my own work on a lot of things. It depends on how much time you have on your hands. Trades people often make $30 to $100 an hour or more. If you can do it yourself you save that amount. That is if you have the tools and the know how. A handy man can get in over his head very quickly sometimes. Doing something wrong the first time can cost you double to have someone come in and do it right after you botched it.
I do minor repairs around my own home but when the roof needs replacing, i call professionals and get bids. Why should i do my own painting when i can pick and choose from out of work construction people who will gladly take $10 an hour or less? It depends on what your time is worth. If you are making $30 an hour or more and the pro wants about that much, he has the tools and expertise and you don't. Let him do it. If you are out of work or have lots of free time and love doing it, then its different. I mow my own lawn because its good exercise. Why pay for an exercise class when i get the same workout for free and save money?
The smarts in making good business decisions can pay hundreds of dollars an hour. There are lots of people who work hard their whole lives and end up with nothing so hard work is not the magic answer.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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Bokonon
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: TheBandit]
#12236316 - 03/20/10 12:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If the other properties all pay $800 a month, I say go for it. If they are, the mortgage could be as high as $2400 really without changing your current outgoings. It doesn't really matter if you're still paying out every month if you think of it as enforced savings.
Do you think your current house is the one you want to raise your kid in? Even if it isn't I still think it sounds like a good idea but if you're already planning on staying there for a considerable time, you may as well engineer the situation so you're getting paid for it.
In terms of contracts etc, Staples (in the UK at least) does pre-made standard letting contracts that you just fill in the details on.
My parents have done this a few times and it's a lot of money just to lay out initially on deposits/surveys/legal but it's a pretty safe investment once it's going.
Obviously safety of investment depends on accuracy of what you've said, if the property is a steal, rent arrangements etc.
Also I have no idea about housing market over there atm, just that I'd jump at the chance in a similar situation over here.
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Statisticons_win
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12236925 - 03/20/10 03:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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consider opportunity costs.
If my time is worth 1 hundred dollars an hour doing A(job), then doing b(job) which I could pay a man to do for twenty five dollars an hour costs me how much?
Start using your head. Stop giving advice about things you nothing about.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12237011 - 03/20/10 03:32 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Got a link to all those "thousands and thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives"?
Are you serious? Have you ever lived more than five miles from a turnip farm? NYC is loaded with apartmnt buildings owned by thousands of businessmen who can't operate anything heftier than a pen. The same holds for any large town. In my town, a few thousand people, we have several landlords I know personally who couldn't fix a doorknob. They're minting money and have been for decades.
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Bokonon
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12245378 - 03/21/10 11:47 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Got a link to all those "thousands and thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives"?
Sunday Times richlist- property millionaires
Forbes richlist- some equally filthy rich americans.
Edited by Bokonon (03/21/10 11:49 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,798
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12250782 - 03/22/10 09:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:Never rent to relatives or friends.
While most of what you write is some of the most ridiculous stuff I have seen, the above is something that most (if not all) landlords should tattoo on their foreheads where they will see it every day.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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iluvfungi
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: TheBandit]
#12252033 - 03/23/10 12:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Couple variables to factor in.
#1 Location of Property
#2 Condition of Property
#2.1 Maintenance of the Property
= Value of the Property.
Regardless of the Value of Property, you want to keep a mid to high level of customer service, which includes maintenance. Even if a place is a dump, you can have several handymen on call or just hire one full time.
Most people that do property management fall into two categories; either they manage the singular property themselves or they are a property manager of several locations. Depending on the size of the single location or variety of properties and condition they are in determines the level of maintenance required.
Obviously you would want to access the major maintenance items, such as a roof. When you do any upgrades to a house or property, expense them over 10 years for major maintenance; painting, roofs, water heater, new pipes, etc.
You must abide by the local laws according to your area. Example, you must paint the interior of the residence every couple years.
You have a lot of reading to do in that area. Basic's are property value, estimated repairs required in the next ten year period. Do your homework and balance the entire thing out for 10 years, and be sure to have a good chunk of credit available for the unexpected. Your business should remain viable regardless of hardships. Don't be a fool and start a business without researching, creating a hard business plan and the motivation to keep it going.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,618
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#12258299 - 03/23/10 11:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:Never rent to relatives or friends.
While most of what you write is some of the most ridiculous stuff I have seen, the above is something that most (if not all) landlords should tattoo on their foreheads where they will see it every day.
Wow for the most part I think your posts sux hard but in this case I think you are on to something. Funny you would rank my posts about the same as I would rank your posts. All good.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,618
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: zappaisgod]
#12258324 - 03/23/10 11:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Got a link to all those "thousands and thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives"?
Are you serious? Have you ever lived more than five miles from a turnip farm? NYC is loaded with apartmnt buildings owned by thousands of businessmen who can't operate anything heftier than a pen. The same holds for any large town. In my town, a few thousand people, we have several landlords I know personally who couldn't fix a doorknob. They're minting money and have been for decades.
Wow big inherited money doesn't have a clue on how to run it. What a surprise. That's your version of "owned"? LOL
Couldn't fix a doorknob but are one.
Thanks for the laugh I wouldn't fix their pipes either.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,618
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: Stonehenge]
#12262198 - 03/24/10 02:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
I think you are both right. I lean toward the thrifty side and try to do my own work on a lot of things. It depends on how much time you have on your hands. Trades people often make $30 to $100 an hour or more. If you can do it yourself you save that amount. That is if you have the tools and the know how. A handy man can get in over his head very quickly sometimes. Doing something wrong the first time can cost you double to have someone come in and do it right after you botched it.
I do minor repairs around my own home but when the roof needs replacing, i call professionals and get bids. Why should i do my own painting when i can pick and choose from out of work construction people who will gladly take $10 an hour or less? It depends on what your time is worth. If you are making $30 an hour or more and the pro wants about that much, he has the tools and expertise and you don't. Let him do it. If you are out of work or have lots of free time and love doing it, then its different. I mow my own lawn because its good exercise. Why pay for an exercise class when i get the same workout for free and save money?
The smarts in making good business decisions can pay hundreds of dollars an hour. There are lots of people who work hard their whole lives and end up with nothing so hard work is not the magic answer.
Hey good post Stone kudos to you. And I agree hire someone if they are willing to do a better job at something you would not be willing to do at that price. I cut a lot of grass like you say good exercise I wear ear protection and just push that thing. Others may say screw that lawn mowing I could understand that as well. I happen to not mind fixing leaky faucets and repairing toilets cause well it ain't rocket science and to pay someone top dollar (if you can find them what a freaking racket) seems silly
It's all about your comfort level as a landlord you better learn to grin and bear it. In a down housing market you are losing $$ every month. Grit ur teeth.
And really, you have folks chomping at the bit to paint ur place for $10 an hour? Tweakers and you lose your fixtures?
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Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (03/24/10 02:30 PM)
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Bokonon
Stranger
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12262307 - 03/24/10 02:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know a fair few people who are landlords who just own the house and let a management company do everything else. Lots of successful professionals have the money to buy to let without ever having to fix anything up.
I appreciate that your way works for you but there are plenty of people for whom it is just not economical for them to fix up a house or cut a lot of grass when they can earn £500 an hour themselves and pay someone else £20 an hour to do the manual labour.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12262617 - 03/24/10 03:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bok, that's true, around here they get 10% of the rent for collecting it plus they charge what the repair guy wants plus a little extra. Thats good if you want to be an absentee landlord or just can't be bothered.
"£500 an hour"
Lets see, that's 20,000 quid a week based on 40 hours x the exchange rate is about $30k a week or over $1.5m a year. Not too many people drawing down a salary like that but there are a few. Lucky dogs. For them if they can pay a management company and make an acceptable percentage return, it may be a good investment.
"Hey good post Stone kudos to you."
Thanks very much, LE
And yeah, if something is good exercise or you just like doing it then why pay someone? Yes, in my area there are lots of people anxious to work for $10 an hour. Skilled tradesmen want $20 if they have tools, lots of experience and a truck but even then they are saying pretty please about the $20. Unemployment is officially around 10% and after you scrape away the govt lies, it's closer to 15% and in some areas higher than that.
I have a girl come in once a week who cleans the place and you would not believe what else she does all for $10 an hour. If i advertised for painting for $10 i'd have to pick and choose from a multitude who wanted to do it. I put in an ad in craigs list for workmen and after a few hours i had over 40 responses and canceled the ad. And that was for skilled work.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 14 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12263045 - 03/24/10 04:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Got a link to all those "thousands and thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives"?
Are you serious? Have you ever lived more than five miles from a turnip farm? NYC is loaded with apartmnt buildings owned by thousands of businessmen who can't operate anything heftier than a pen. The same holds for any large town. In my town, a few thousand people, we have several landlords I know personally who couldn't fix a doorknob. They're minting money and have been for decades.
Wow big inherited money doesn't have a clue on how to run it. What a surprise. That's your version of "owned"? LOL
Couldn't fix a doorknob but are one.
Thanks for the laugh I wouldn't fix their pipes either.
What's this doorknob obsession with you? Recently sit on one? You said something stupid. I proved it was stupid. Get over it.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,618
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: zappaisgod]
#12263738 - 03/24/10 05:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Got a link to all those "thousands and thousands of rich landlords who've never touched a tool in their lives"?
Are you serious? Have you ever lived more than five miles from a turnip farm? NYC is loaded with apartmnt buildings owned by thousands of businessmen who can't operate anything heftier than a pen. The same holds for any large town. In my town, a few thousand people, we have several landlords I know personally who couldn't fix a doorknob. They're minting money and have been for decades.
Wow big inherited money doesn't have a clue on how to run it. What a surprise. That's your version of "owned"? LOL
Couldn't fix a doorknob but are one.
Thanks for the laugh I wouldn't fix their pipes either.
What's this doorknob obsession with you? Recently sit on one? You said something stupid. I proved it was stupid. Get over it.
Wake Up the OP was/is "thinking about becoming a landlord" and not "I'm a dumb rich turd who inherited money but I let my property manager/plumber/electrician you name it do me hard doesn't matter I live in Westchester NY I Matter" get over it Zap a finished and stupid attempt at business is different from starting your own. Sorry I tried to help someone on here improve themselves my 20 years of landlording obviously wasted. At least on you. Hopefully someone with at least marginal intelligence understands that to save money is to make money. Ben Franklin knew that a penny saved is a penny earned. Geez pay that plumber if you feel so strongly. Their butt crax and bitchin about this and that ain't worth it to me. Kind of like discussing this with you Zap. Hell all I did was express my experienced opinion on the matter but you wanted to critique my comments. Well Fuck That.
Edited by LunarEclipse (03/24/10 06:06 PM)
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Bokonon
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12265338 - 03/24/10 09:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think he was just trying to show your world view isn't the only one.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,233
Last seen: 14 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12268171 - 03/25/10 09:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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You seem to have the foolish notion that you have to be a handyman to be a landlord. Or inherit vast wealth. Neither is required to be a landlord or a builder as can be shown by thousands upon thousands who have done it other ways.
Let me put this to you. Someone is a successful business person who makes hundreds of dollars an hour. Call him a doctor or lawyer or super duper computer tech. He decides he wants to own real estate. If the pipes break or a cabinet door falls off, should he abandon his day job to perform a menial task? Of course not. Many people just like that successfully invest in real estate as landlords. It would be monumentally stupid of them to sacrifice higher earnings to save pennies on micro managing their real estate. I pay experts to do the things I am not expert in and make more money than I could save by doing the things I am expert in. Do you mow the fucking lawn on your properties? If so you must have absolutely no other earning capability.
How stunningly narrow minded you are. "I did it this way so that is the only way it can be done." Very small.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,618
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: Stonehenge]
#12268269 - 03/25/10 10:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Bok, that's true, around here they get 10% of the rent for collecting it plus they charge what the repair guy wants plus a little extra. Thats good if you want to be an absentee landlord or just can't be bothered.
"£500 an hour"
Lets see, that's 20,000 quid a week based on 40 hours x the exchange rate is about $30k a week or over $1.5m a year. Not too many people drawing down a salary like that but there are a few. Lucky dogs. For them if they can pay a management company and make an acceptable percentage return, it may be a good investment.
"Hey good post Stone kudos to you."
Thanks very much, LE
And yeah, if something is good exercise or you just like doing it then why pay someone? Yes, in my area there are lots of people anxious to work for $10 an hour. Skilled tradesmen want $20 if they have tools, lots of experience and a truck but even then they are saying pretty please about the $20. Unemployment is officially around 10% and after you scrape away the govt lies, it's closer to 15% and in some areas higher than that.
I have a girl come in once a week who cleans the place and you would not believe what else she does all for $10 an hour. If i advertised for painting for $10 i'd have to pick and choose from a multitude who wanted to do it. I put in an ad in craigs list for workmen and after a few hours i had over 40 responses and canceled the ad. And that was for skilled work.
If I could find a girl to polish my doorknobs at $10 an hour that would be well worth it. I could see you getting swamped with calls from "workmen", the hard part is finding a good one.
OK now I will make an admission that may seem to fly in the face of my normal thinking do as much as you can yourself. I pay a property manager to find tenants and collect the rent! Negotiated down to 8% from 10% hey 2% is 2%. The reasons for this are several. The main one is that they find qualified tenants and I don't have to deal with that aspect. Answering all those calls from largely unqualified people asking a lot of questions starting with "where is that house at?" just doesn't make my day.
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Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (03/25/10 10:38 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,233
Last seen: 14 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Thinking about becoming a landlord. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#12268877 - 03/25/10 12:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So you pay people to do the part you don't do well, i.e. the job of an agent. Many real estate agents own rental property. They can't fix anything themselves. But to extend your reasoning regarding handiness you shouldn't own property because you can't find qualified tenants.
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