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Offlinedip
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Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 173
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: therapture]
    #12241935 - 03/21/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Psychoanomaly, I was not saying that I needed information about sources for mescaline.  I was giving an account of a debunking that I had performed on a friend about some pills he/she had acquired.  In other words, I was relating some info relevant to this thread.

But just so's ya knows, it is rumored that a large number of Trichocereus bridgesii and Trichocereus pachanoia var. "Torres and Torres" once inhabited my front porch.  It is also claimed that at one point, these beautiful dark green and blue-green columns were all over 7 feet tall.

dip

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OfflineLoonery
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: dip]
    #12242057 - 03/21/10 12:58 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

dip,
yes I think that your story gives a good example of the power of suggestion.  The person believed that they had mescaline and seemed to believe it to the extent that it altered the subjective effects enough that they perceived it to be a different substance.  The validity of many statements about the quality, dose or identity of a substance merely based on subjective effects are very questionable especially when it comes to psychedelic drugs.  I'd be really interested in seeing actual research on people given drugs and asked to identify it based on effects alone and how this would be complicated by deceiving them (eg// telling them "this is mescaline" when it's LSD and seeing if people believe it).  Clearly, the practical difficulties for any of us carrying out such experiments make this unlikely so we'll probably always be stuck in the realm of speculation.


--------------------
Support software freedom.
http://www.fsf.org/

Cryptography is key.
http://www.gnupg.org/

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Offlinepsychoanomaly
Ἓν rὸ πᾶν


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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: dip]
    #12242195 - 03/21/10 01:15 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

dip said:
But just so's ya knows, it is rumored that a large number of Trichocereus bridgesii and Trichocereus pachanoia var. "Torres and Torres" once inhabited my front porch.  It is also claimed that at one point, these beautiful dark green and blue-green columns were all over 7 feet tall.

dip




yum yum :thumbup:

sorry, i didn't mean to belittle you.


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

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InvisibleFunkMasterShroom
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #12248542 - 03/22/10 12:10 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Suppose the government is only interested in protecting upper class people.  Meth addicts, heroin addicts and others can be prone to committing crimes against not only other low-income people but also the upper class people who the government wants to protect (assuming you're right).  I don't think the government allows meth and other drugs to run rampant.  I suppose we just disagree.




I didnt suppose the government was protecting the upper class. It's a few 'highest class' people (what an oxymoron) that are influecing and infiltrating the government, and they are biding to protect their own asses.

The rich are just as prone to drug addiction as anyone, and in a lot of cases tend to use more drugs then lower class, because the fact that they can afford it. And in a lot of these cases, these people continue to function in their rich lifestyles balancing best they can their addictions with responsabilities. Eventaully it all collapses though(in most cases).

Though other places, maybe china for example, can have many people addicted to say heroin, and live out fairly full and long lives.\

and I suppose, 'run rampant' is an overstatement.. But in many pockets of the USA and Canada, this is absoluetly the case. Entire sections of huge cities are filled with crimb, and addiction, and it is simply accepted, and accomidated- Rarely reformed.. and if they do attempt a reform, it ends up being an eviction.

The best Slave is an Over Fundementalist Christian, middle to high class working family, living in city redidents, and suburbs, driving the SUV's and atempting to continue to live the mythical American Dream (witch sadly has been so drastically inacted out, that almost nothing short of a collapse of society will bring about a needed change) I say this matter-of-factly, but it is strictly my opinion.

Anyway- all the other slaves under this government Government (Govern means to Control, Mente means Mind) aka- the rest of society, with it's many many facets must some how be kept occupied and predisposed. With Media, and Drugs(prescription and otherwise), chemicals, vanity, and luxerieis that spoil people.

How does it feel to live in a Country you know is corrupt, and yet continue to accept it as the way things are, forsaking ones Own Liberty, and even Moral Integrity?

I'm still trying to figure out what more I can do about it myself.. X.x

And I believe that Psychadelics, LSD and otherwise, expand awareness and consciouseness. (I personally cant imagine someone turning 'evil' from Mushrooms, or DMT, or maybe even E, or using them for 'evil' without much reprocussion. LSD though may be different? as with the 2c's?)

Look, it's the shadow and occupation of this control system blinding us from seeing and reaching for our natural Human tendensies of living what we truly wish to. (infecting us with memes of self loathing, and division, dosility, and fear..)
I cannot personally deny that for myself, and many others I have talked to, met, and seen, have not been awakened to these inner Truths and feelings, through the use of psychadelics. A few may be so farshadowed, wounded, afraid, dispositioned, that they may produce even greater fears and agony.. But I think these are also a means to the end of Healing..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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OfflineMindFood
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #12248825 - 03/22/10 01:08 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

You don't usually find LSD, it usually finds you...

And by that I mean you have to be a certain type of person and know the right people. I have LSD in plentiful supply atm, lucky me. :grin: But there's not enough of this wonderful chemical around unfortunately so you can only afford to share the love with people that really deserve it. :inlove:

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OfflineLoonery
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: MindFood]
    #12251067 - 03/22/10 07:44 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

And I believe that Psychadelics, LSD and otherwise, expand awareness and consciouseness. (I personally cant imagine someone turning 'evil' from Mushrooms, or DMT, or maybe even E, or using them for 'evil' without much reprocussion. LSD though may be different? as with the 2c's?)




With respect to the rest of your post, I still don't think that you're right about the government being more concerned about psychedelics than about other illicit drugs like methamphetamine or heroin.

I also don't agree that psychedelics "expand awareness" other than by temporarily making the user think about things they might not normally think about (some goes for consciousness expansion).  I don't think anyone is likely to turn GOOD or EVIL from psychedelics.  I don't think that psychedelics have much transformative power.  I think people tend to remain the same after they've used psychedelics, no matter how intense and profound their experiences are because they don't have much staying power.


--------------------
Support software freedom.
http://www.fsf.org/

Cryptography is key.
http://www.gnupg.org/

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OfflineMagicJames
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Loonery]
    #12251105 - 03/22/10 07:48 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

LSD doesn't find you, you have to find it.

And if you're having a hard time you're either a cop or you don't have alot of friends.  Go make some, and try harder.

:peace:

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InvisibleIndicaHybrid


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 159
Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Loonery]
    #12251234 - 03/22/10 08:17 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

..


--------------------
:rastamon:

Edited by IndicaHybrid (03/24/10 12:08 AM)

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OfflineThe_Aviator
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: IndicaHybrid]
    #12251347 - 03/22/10 08:34 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

It depends on the area, as I'm sure many have said. I used to think it was hard to find... But I never looked in the right places. Look at raves or jam band shows. Those are the easiest places to find it in my experience. It's all about branching out and making connections as well. Good luck.


--------------------

Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself."
Being and Nothingness
Easy no-nausea hbwr tek
Phish videos and discussion!

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OfflineSilkyB
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: IndicaHybrid]
    #12251412 - 03/22/10 08:44 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

IndicaHybrid said:
Quote:

Loonery said:
>  it probably has to do with the fact that the synthesis is complicated, involves multiple, rare precursors and materials <

I don't think that you're right about that.  The synthesis of LSD from ergot is not that complicated.  Ergot alkaloids are extracted with relative simplicity and then hydrolzed to lysergic acid (or to lysergic acid hydrazide).  Starting with ergot, even a crude mixture of various ergot alkaloids is sufficient for manufacture of pure LSD, because ergot alkaloids all hydrolyse to the same product: lysergic acid (this is even indicated in its name: LYSis of the ERGot alkaloids results in lysergic acid).

Prodcuing LSD from a crude mixture of ergot alkaloids can be done with hydrazine, diethylamine and some solvents.  While diethylamine and hydrazine are "watched," they are not rare in any sense.  The actual synthesis of LSD from crude ergot alkaloids is very straightforward and simple and does not require any fancy equipment.  The equipment involved in the hydrazine/diethylamine route is a hotplate stirrer, separatory funnel and chromatography column.  The equipment for this synthetic procedure could easily be purchased for less than $500.

I can't see a good reason for LSD being rare.  Ergot is not that difficult to come by, neither are diethylamine and hydrazine (there are additional ways to produce LSD in addition to this original method).  The process for making it from ergot with diethylamine and hydrazine is very simple.  I don't know where this myth of "it's hard to make" comes from, but if you're literate in chemistry then you should be able to see that it's not at all complicated, nor does it require any special equipment or skill.

> It's because, the government knows the potential this drug has to undermine the value of traditional society <

I don't believe that for a second.  I suspect that governments are more concerned about drugs like heroin and meth, which do have the potential to turn addicts into criminals who steal and commit other crimes.  The notion that LSD would cause a breakdown in society is pure mythology, IMO.




teach me :peace:

I'm intelligent and willing to learn. Look I already looked up hydrolysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolysis

lab supplies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_chromatography

ergot sourcing? : http://www.iamshaman.com/hbwr/ergot_of_rye.htm




While in theory it might seem easier than many people say, I still have to believe its extremely difficult.

Keep in mind LSD is made from one species of ergot, Claviceps purpurea. Also if made wrong or poorly it can be dangerous and Ergotism is not a fun thing and can even cause permanent damage or be fatal.

I wouldn't attempt it without quality and reliable sources for materials and an extensive knowledge of chemistry.


--------------------
"It's in the red!"

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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Loonery]
    #12251522 - 03/22/10 09:03 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Loonery said:
> Anyone else believe this to be the case? <

Some of the DOx compounds have been found on blotter papers according to the DEA and these reports are published in their Microgram Bulletin (or journal).  I believe that I also recall reports of 2C-C and even a steroid having been found on blotter paper.  There was also a case of the pages of a book being laced with methamphetamine, if I recall correctly.  Apparently the phenethylamines are bitter tasting, but relying on taste alone won't really tell you if you have LSD or not because there is always the possibility of getting blotter that has a bitter compound in addition to LSD.





I remember buying a bunch of DO(X) on blotters once.

I usually think that acid is somewhat bitter from the dyes and alcohol solution it's lain on the paper with. However these DO(X) hits were so bitter it was unmistakeably some other chemical. I also find with acid, that once the paper goes limp the bitterness is gone. Not so with these. I usually suck on acid blotters for a long long time before I swallow them. The DO(X) blotters were so bitter I could not stand to have them in my mouth, and had to swallow them immediately.

I only dosed them once. I took two blotters, and tripped for 22 hours. I remember going to sleep in my girlfriends bed after about 16 hours, and waking up a few hours later hallucinating. This was very disorienting, and it took me a moment to realize that I was still under the effects of the drug. This is in my memory the only time I've woken up noticeably high.

Several people in our group had bad reactions to the DO(X) we had. I think this is mostly because people were dosing it thinking it was acid, although I managed to clear that up pretty quick and kill the business of the jokers selling it.
Most people wouldn't take a drug that causes you to trip for 20-30 hours on purpose. Now I ALWAYS take a hit before I buy several, and I don't think I will ever mistake the flavor/effects of DO(X). Now anytime someone starts selling DO(X) we just get the word out, and everyone boycotts it.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Loonery]
    #12251577 - 03/22/10 09:13 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:


I also don't agree that psychedelics "expand awareness" other than by temporarily making the user think about things they might not normally think about (some goes for consciousness expansion).  I don't think anyone is likely to turn GOOD or EVIL from psychedelics.  I don't think that psychedelics have much transformative power.  I think people tend to remain the same after they've used psychedelics, no matter how intense and profound their experiences are because they don't have much staying power.




I disagree. Experiencing death/dissolution of the ego can lead to immensely greater awareness of the self.

I know psychedelics have completely changed me as a person, even if I'm very much the same as before I started taking them.

The 2006 study by John Hopkins suggests similar conclusions.

Quote:

Using unusually rigorous scientific conditions and measures, Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in “sacred mushrooms” can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries.

The resulting experiences apparently prompt positive changes in behavior and attitude that last several months, at least.




Quote:

Two months later, 79 percent of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session. A majority said their mood, attitudes and behaviors had changed for the better.  Structured interviews with family members, friends and co-workers generally confirmed the subjects’ remarks. Results of a year-long followup are being readied for publication.




--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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Offlinethe man
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Heffy]
    #12251706 - 03/22/10 09:34 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

cause everyone that can get it cheap hords it haha seriously. you know how many hits are locked up in hippies library books.


--------------------
And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"

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OfflineLoonery
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: the man]
    #12252040 - 03/22/10 10:28 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Also if made wrong or poorly it can be dangerous and Ergotism is not a fun thing and can even cause permanent damage or be fatal. 




One should always be cautious in a laboratory and I would always expect anyone who actually undertook such a process to be experienced in lab safety.  Certainly, spilling ergot alkaloids all over your face would be potentially disastrous.

Quote:

I disagree. Experiencing death/dissolution of the ego can lead to immensely greater awareness of the self.




I don't even know what that's supposed to mean, which is largely why I'm skeptical of claims about psychedelics expanding consciousness.  A lot of the discussion about psychedelics amongst idealists is pretty abstract and hard to evaluate on the basis of evidence.  What do you mean by a "greater awareness of the self?" 

I've thought about this a lot, read some of the standard texts about psychedelics and I just think a lot of this kind of thing is nonsense.  If it helps you become a better person, then I don't think you should worry about what I say.  I see these beliefs as being directly comparable to religious beliefs.  I just don't think that there's any substance to them.

Quote:

I know psychedelics have completely changed me as a person, even if I'm very much the same as before I started taking them. 




But do you really?  What's your evidence?  That you were different after taking psychedelics and you perceive them to be the causative agent of change according to your own understanding of yourself? 

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Everyone dies after their last meal.  That doesn't mean they were poison.

The John Hopkins study says what we already know: that people found their first experience with mushrooms "mystical."  If someone finds an experience mystical, well, that's up to them.  It doesn't tell us much else beyond that.  I find many of my trips "mystical" but once I've come down it's over.

I think the obvious thing that can be said about that study is that the setting would probably add an air of meaning to the whole experience.  Many people hold scientists in high esteem and I imagine that some of those who were experiencing mushrooms for their first time as part of a research study would think that it was an important event and that the results of the experiment were important.  What do you think the results would have been if the researchers were allowed to pose as drug dealers who happened to have shrooms and then asked their customers about the experiences later?  How many would report back that they'd had one of the most mystical experiences of their lives?  I'd guess that it would be less.


--------------------
Support software freedom.
http://www.fsf.org/

Cryptography is key.
http://www.gnupg.org/

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Invisiblebryguy27007
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Loonery]
    #12252478 - 03/22/10 11:53 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Loonery said:
Everyone dies after their last meal.  That doesn't mean they were poison.





I really like that quote.
I don't think I agree with the rest of your post though.
I understand scientific skepticism but to claim that because you can't quantify feeling a change in yourself doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

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Offlineletsburn
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: bryguy27007]
    #12252511 - 03/23/10 12:01 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I live in San Diego County and Lsd is pretty easy to get your hands on, well for me it is.:crazy2:
It all depends on who you know.
Seems like everyone I hang out with is addicted:wink: to it.hahah

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OfflineSummerDaisies
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: letsburn]
    #12252612 - 03/23/10 12:24 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

lsd has never been hard for me to find really:shrug:


--------------------
[quote]Abuse said:
summerfaggot is one of the biggest cunts on this site.[/quote]

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OfflineMCSteveyC
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #12253636 - 03/23/10 06:53 AM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

FunkMasterShroom said:
Quote:

MCSteveyC said:
you've been looking for only 3 and a 1/2 months?? mate i've been looking for nearly 4 years to get hold of that stuff! everytime i think im getting close, BANG! it all goes tits up and i get nowt!




Have you even tried a music festival/Rave?




i have been to many raves but never found no acid! raving is my culture!

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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Loonery]
    #12258186 - 03/23/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean, which is largely why I'm skeptical of claims about psychedelics expanding consciousness.  A lot of the discussion about psychedelics amongst idealists is pretty abstract and hard to evaluate on the basis of evidence.  What do you mean by a "greater awareness of the self?"

I've thought about this a lot, read some of the standard texts about psychedelics and I just think a lot of this kind of thing is nonsense.  If it helps you become a better person, then I don't think you should worry about what I say.  I see these beliefs as being directly comparable to religious beliefs.  I just don't think that there's any substance to them.





Quote:

But do you really?  What's your evidence?  That you were different after taking psychedelics and you perceive them to be the causative agent of change according to your own understanding of yourself?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Everyone dies after their last meal.  That doesn't mean they were poison.





Firstly there is a huge separation between religious beliefs, and mystical experience. If you disagree I recommend doing some reading on mysticism.

Many things are difficult to evaluate on the basis of evidence. Are you happy or sad today? Where is the evidence? Sounds pretty abstract to me. If you're happy today and someone kicks your teeth in tomorrow, would that make you sad? Where is your evidence? That you were different after getting your teeth kicked in, and you perceive them to be the causative agent of change according to your own understanding of yourself?

What are you going to say but yes? Essentially your argument can be used to disprove all human experience.

Reminds me of a quote.
Quote:

"Up to the twentieth century, "reality" was everything humans could touch, smell, see, and hear. Since the initial publication of the chart of the electromagnetic spectrum ... humans have learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear is less than one-millionth of reality. Ninety-nine percent of all that is going to affect our tomorrows is being developed by humans using instruments and working in ranges of reality that are non-humanly sensible." -Buckminster Fuller(I believe)





Many people have what I would consider a poor awareness of the self. Constant connection with their ego/personality causes them to be noticeably unaware of it. A psychedelic experience often forces people to separate from their ego. Allowing them to see themselves as an objective observer.

From a psychological/mystical perspective this is quite remarkable, and certainly nothing to brush off as nonsense. If you honestly don't see the benefits of experiencing this state of consciousness I would be happy to explain them in a different post.

Quote:

The John Hopkins study says what we already know: that people found their first experience with mushrooms "mystical."  If someone finds an experience mystical, well, that's up to them.  It doesn't tell us much else beyond that.  I find many of my trips "mystical" but once I've come down it's over.

I think the obvious thing that can be said about that study is that the setting would probably add an air of meaning to the whole experience.  Many people hold scientists in high esteem and I imagine that some of those who were experiencing mushrooms for their first time as part of a research study would think that it was an important event and that the results of the experiment were important.  What do you think the results would have been if the researchers were allowed to pose as drug dealers who happened to have shrooms and then asked their customers about the experiences later?  How many would report back that they'd had one of the most mystical experiences of their lives?  I'd guess that it would be less.




The John Hopkins study says a hell of a lot more than that people perceived their experience as mystical. I would suggest Reading it in its entirety if you haven't.

I think your suggestion that the results of the study would be different if the scientists posed as drug dealers is absolutely absurd. You are on a magic mushroom message board, talking predominantly to people who have never taken mushrooms that weren't grown/bought. Yet most of them (I imagine) would corroborate my experience, and that of the John Hopkins study participants.

The John Hopkins study was held specifically to see what would happen in a highly controlled setting. Buying drugs on the street is not a controlled setting.

Almost all the psychedelic experiences anyone has ever had, were from substances bought from street dealers. This is clearly the norm, not the exception. The John Hopkins study was a huge departure from that, and supplied dramatically more relevant data. If you want to discount it on that basis, I don't think your opinion holds any weight at all.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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Offlinefallenlsd
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to find? [Re: Heffy]
    #12261592 - 03/24/10 10:28 AM (14 years, 8 days ago)

keep searching


i know my people ONLY sell to the people actively searching for it


IE; they will NEVER EVER EVER offer you acid, nor will they discuss acid around you or bring up the fact that they even know what acid is


UNLESS you bring it up, and ask about it, and show interest, and once they see that you yourself are actively trying to find it, they will mention they might know a guy


then they'll bring you to a house, and feed you some shit and see if you're gonna freak out or be cool

if you're cool, you're in, if you freak you're gone


you get one shot


--------------------
:mushroom2: :mushroomgrow: :mushroom2:

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