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 RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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I myself took an interest in spirituality at a rather young age, starting around eleven, being an ill-supervised little hood who found more interest floating around the aisles of spiritual suppliers during the day then sitting in a class room parroting off catechisms (yup, I went to Catholic school). I wasn't really into Qabalah at that point though, at the time reading it more like stereo instructions than a mystical system. I was more acquainted with Catholic magico-religious practices through my father's Southern Italian heritage so I got into learning everything I could about natural and elemental magic, wanting to know everything that could be done with water, candles, herbs, and the like to understand the mechanics of it all.
I didn't come to seriously study it until around 15-16 after the shop I frequented had been closed down and all I came into contact with afterward were New Age la-de-das (mostly Wiccans who worshiped Silver RavenWolf) who, like Madonna, seemed to (IMO) be stuck in Qeshet, blinded by the astral luster and not being able to comprehend anything beyond it, therefore accepting it as the be-all-and-end-all. Running around with their pentacles and athames claiming to know the secrets of the universe, preaching love and acceptance while whining about the ignorance of Christians and "never again the burning times"TM. To me they seemed more interested in making everyone know they had a chip on their shoulder and wanting to be different and "special", not having enough faith in themselves to cause change through simple prayer and will, needing all the bells and whistles of witchcraft and ritual to convince them they had spiritual power to make chenge happen in their lives. I also believe it to be partially based on the people's feeling powerless in the physical world so they used the 'image' of being a witch to get people to not trouble them and deluding themselves into thinking it meant they had some kind of power over others or aura of mystique that other, 'less enlightened' folks couldn't handle; not realizing that what they had was the power of acting like a weirdo which most people tend to steer clear of.
It was at around 15 I got into psychedelics and at that time I was interested in more the Robert Cochrane type of witchcraft, using altered states to 'ride the hedge' toward achieving gnosis, and once I got into Qabalah it was like a natural transition back towards my roots in Christ (which of course led to a more Gnostic interpretation of scripture).
It allowed me to see the oneness of mystical/magical practice beyond the contexts of culture and creed and all the different traditions I had previously learned about came together to form one beautiful synchronistic tradition.
I lapsed for a couple of years in terms of study, being held up trying to get my home life straightened out and spreading the knowledge I had gained therein, so my family wouldn't be in as much emotional/spiritual turmoil. It worked out for the most part and now I'm back to me and my studies, re-learning everything intellectually to go farther spiritually in my pursuit of gnosis. That's where I'm at today.
The big thing with Qabalah, in terms of it's mystical/esoteric side is that it has to be experienced for ones self and goes beyond words or intellect, and therefor can't really be summed up in words to explain it to another. I should have known better than trying to write anything to convey the lessons learned through the study of the mystical Qabalah. One of the names for it is the unwritten Qabalah and it didn't earn that name without reason, it's because it goes beyond words and, like Tantra, is a method one has to put into practice (or at least contemplate) themselves in order to gain understanding of it or to have it bear any fruit for them.
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Don't tase me, bro!
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Goethe's Faust repents at the last, to be saved from Hell and cheats the devil.
is it possible to trick the greatest trickster of them all?
--constantine
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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Thanks for the well written letter! I can either relate to or agree with most everything you wrote. I got that whole witchy mystique when I was still 18, the 'occult revolution' was on, and Ray Buckland would proselytize at my college, taking a gorgeous young blonde witch in black with him (we all imagined her being Skyclad) from the Brentwood, L.I., NY coven. Perhaps if I hadn't been so shy, and a virgin, I might have looked into it. But, there was still something sinister about it all, in a cult-like way, grown man using 18 year olds for luring horny college boys  This is probably why I went to ceremonial magick right after reading Ferrar's What Witches Do, because I've always been more cerebral than visceral, despite my best attempts at being more earthbound. Trying to do that reminds me of one of my first scuba dives when my dive buddy forgot his weight belt, and he he even tried grabbing rocks from the seabed to weigh him down, but he kept buoying back up again! And the Lord provides! On Halloween 1972, when my roommate and I were preparing a midnight ritual to evoke the demon of lust, Asmodeus, beautiful strawberry blonde, freckle-faced and built, Linda R., whom I desired but could not approach, knocked on MY door! She wanted to learn to drive a 'stick shift,' and she knew I had a Fiat 850 Spyder! I actually told her to leave!  It was like God was saying 'Here is an object of your lust, delivered to your door. You needn't ask demons.' But, of course, all this synchronicity didn't occur to me until much much later when all I could do was marvel and laugh at the irony.  
The psychological thing for me is that I often want to 'do' something, and mysticism is mostly receptive. Mapping my life upon the Tree of Life wasn't sufficient for this need to 'do' something, which is why people sometimes say that mysticism is 'boring.' It certainly is anything but boring when one is caught up in an ecstatic state, but the ritual accoutrements that you mentioned also exert a fascination on part of my psyche - perhaps even a vestigial part of my Yesodic personality. I asked my Lady what SHE preferred for me to do: start rituals in magick circles, or take up laboratory alchemy. She selected the latter, and as half of our alchemical Rebis, I honored her choice. It too resonates with me because of a long history with Jungian based alchemy as well as a childhood spent experimenting in a home lab. This brings together Qabalah, as part of the synchronistic correspondences in alchemy and Spagyrics (planetary hours, metals, plants). But, this too shall pass. I usually feel like there is nothing that is necessary for me to 'do,' while there are temptations that I need not to do.
A life with grace, with synchronicities abounding, is for me the 'life abundant,' This is contrary to those people who call themselves Christians and who believe that God wants them to be rich! So much about the tag 'Christian' disgusts me at this point. After my long struggle to be liberated from the quagmire of Reformed Jewish culture and ethnicity, I am extremely reluctant to tell others that I am a Christian, although saying that I am a Jew is far from accurate. I think that I must be a Jewish 'soul' with a Christian 'Spirit' held together in some kind of Gnostic-Qabalistic-Alchemical metaphor of transformation. I guess I'm still just an Esotericist at heart. Occultist sounds too much like the people you were describing, and I am just too old, and living in the wrong state, at the wrong time to adopt some hocus-pocus persona. 
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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synchronicities are usually hidden to the most oblivious of mystical seekers 
that's why they call it the occult 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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Yeah, I hear you, Markos. Most of my generation (post-occult revolution) seems to have come to mysticism and magic not as part of a quest for self-realization, but trough seeing the 'occult commercialization' with shows like Charmed and movies like The Craft and what have you, seeing these bad ass bitches kicking ass and haphazardly throwing about occult terminology which gives the impression of arcane knowledge, and saying "Wow they're cool, I wanna be like THAT" so they go to Barnes and Noble and buy whatever they can that can as long as they find it aesthetically pleasing, and on with the delusion!
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
It certainly is anything but boring when one is caught up in an ecstatic state, but the ritual accoutrements that you mentioned also exert a fascination on part of my psyche - perhaps even a vestigial part of my Yesodic personality.
The difference in my mind when it comes that is that you understand that the different tools and and drama of ritual work as psychological triggers, as opposed to the modern fast-and-loose "Barnes and Noble" occult tradition which makes it sound like one gains their allotment of witch power or whatever after they "collect the whole set" so to speak.
I myself am not that big on ritual, only when it comes to certain things, and when I do it's much more about achieving a trance state.
I tend to have more of a Tantric approach to life, preferring to go along for the ride and letting life 'do' me in a sense, with each experience bringing me closer towards my ultimate fulfillment and realization. I see Shiva as a sort of proto-Christos and the first to be the bring the Word of God (in mythology/poetry) to humanity and Kali as a sort of "Sophia the Destroyer" representing her fall from the Fullness and redemption thereto as one complete, necessary cycle and helping us in realizing this and getting back to where we belong.
You can also see parallels between Christ and Shiva in the (venomous) serpent handling, strychnine (deadly stimulant/intoxicant poison) drinking Pentecostal Christian sects.
When it comes to labels I'm with you even more. With the connotations that terms like 'Occultist', 'Gnostic', 'Christian', 'Witch', have and the different feelings they evoke from different people I pretty much throw out whatever term which, depending on the circumstances and people I'm talking to, will lead to the least amount of confrontation. I don't see it as a big deal because when it all comes down to it in the mystical sense, we all just ARE, all titles and labels just being creations of the mind.
And when it comes to Ray Ray Buckland, sure, he may have been the first Wiccan to publicly "come out of the broom closet" (again, a term which in my mind emphasizes the differentness and specialness those who embrace modern Wicca want to feel) in the US and he gets a lot of clout for that, just take a gander at his occult masterpiece "The Magick of Chant-o-Matics". 'Nuff said.
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Don't tase me, bro!
Edited by RiverRat427 (04/28/10 12:34 PM)
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Enjoying my lurk. 
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high. 
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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I once did a spontaneous candle burning ritual of my own design, combined with autoerotic stimulation, and I swear the object of my 'pink candle desire' (didn't have red on hand) made herself available to me! I was influenced by Buckland's Practical Candle Burning, and the girl was this gorgeous Amazon who used to date the shot-putter at college. She was coming by, I can only surmise, to throw me a goodbye something-or-other, but I was so shocked by her only visit (for a bogus reason) to my room, that I failed to take advantage of this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Kicked myself in the ass for a long time after that. All she knew was my looks of adoration, and of course, these 'coincidences' will always remain unproven in magick, but...the whole thing remains in my mind as a meaningful connection. 
But I used to experiment with cannabis as a kid in private, not for the persona of being cool. I didn't want others to know. This kind of experimentation became even more secretive whenI began to experiment with witchcraft, and then ceremonial magick. As an introvert, I never had many friends to begin with, and two of them were extreme rationalists (one became a genetic engineer, the other a geologist, another an electrical engineer). The non-academic friends were too 'ordinary,' but everyone was completely dismissive of my occult interests beginning at age 18. As for female friends, forgetaboutit. Now, after the major portion of my life has been lived, I seem to be acting like I was 18 again.   
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I was so shocked by her only visit (for a bogus reason) to my room, that I failed to take advantage of this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Kicked myself in the ass for a long time after that.
These sort of times we perform to the best of our abilities, there was no other way it could have been more special, even the 'kicking yourself afterwards' is meant to be like that 
I seem to remember you recently mentioning a girlfriend?
I thought you'd found your mystical other half man 
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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I believe I had a similar experience my senior year in college after following a "ritual" of Thee Temple Ov Psychick Youth. Basically all you had to do was write your sexual fantasy on a piece of paper, put a few drops of your spit on the paper, a few drops of your blood... then masturbate and at the moment of orgasm focus intently on what you want and ejaculate semen on the paper as well.
Then you let the paper dry overnight and forget about what you want. Put the paper someplace it will be out of then way. I put mine in the top of the closet, but some people would mail them into the "Temple."
I seem to remember a few weeks later my hot neighbor made herself available to me and, like you, I didn't have the courage to strike. It was for the best, though. When I got to know her better, I would have been really upset by having a sexual relationship with her. She would have just broke my heart.
edit: Oh yes, it also had to be on the 23rd of the month, beginning at 2300 hours.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
Edited by Computerism (03/15/10 03:47 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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Hmmm. Perhaps I was referring to the college girlfriend, whom I had broken up with, who looked me up a year ago Christmas Eve, after someone told her that I had written about her on this site. Someone was doing a search of the literature on her (she was in the National Enquirer in 2002 for operating a large 'prostitution ring,' or, as she would have it, an escort service), and I used her full name (now deleted with an apology to her). I fell in love with this girl some 34 years ago - first time is always the most intense - and she continued to haunt my dreams for over 3 decades. Then we had a sort of phone/e-mail reunion, and I had another opportunity of a lifetime to make peace with her, to try to transmute my residual feelings into a kind of 'courtly love.' She really won't have it, but keeps inviting me to visit her, which I can't do. However, her parents still live in my state, though elderly, and she may have to come here eventually  They have never reconciled with their prostitute daughter however. You are right, I have a Lady of some 13 years, and she is none too happy about this haunting from my past.  All I can say is that I will never accept that loving someone  is wrong. Now, sleeping with the former girlfriend  would be wrong  , given the relationship with my Soror Mystica.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (03/15/10 04:17 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Loving someone is never wrong. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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As silly as these things seem to read about, at the moment, it also seemed as though one had entered a 'liminal space,' a "crack between the worlds," in which mind could influence another mind.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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Oh yeah, YOU tell that to my Lady!
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I fell in love with this girl some 34 years ago - first time is always the most intense - and she continued to haunt my dreams for over 3 decades.
lol yeah, the first girl i ever loved still pops up in my dreams! Hopefully not for 3 decades though...
I think you were reffering to your girl of 13 years before, and i just presumed it was a recent thang... just when you said 'everyone was completely dismissive of my occult interests beginning at age 18. As for female friends, forgetaboutit.' i thought you meant you'd never met any mystically inclined female, maybe you were talking about back then when you were 18?
I can't imagine you being with someone for 13 years and them not being at least a little mystically inclined
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 4 hours, 6 minutes
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Well, as it turns out, at the time of this writing, I had been with my ex wife for 13 years, and, I have just reached the 14 year mark with my present Lady. The ex did not have a mystical bent, she was mentally ill (which I just responded to in Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology in the post on Borderlines). I married appearance and what I believed to be 'potential' interest in my interests. I HATE it when I'm stupid! 
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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IMO Buckland's writings on already established systems like Wicca, candle magic, and the like are sound but some of his writings which he obviously took creative license on like "Chant-o-Matics" or "Gypsy Witchcraft and Magic" have very little basis in any occult or magical theory/doctrine that I know of other than faith in the thought form of 'making magic'.
Those 'liminal spaces' you talk about played a big part in the kinds of "traditional" witchcraft I was into when I was younger was all about, accessing them at certain times or certain places like crossroads, in cemeteries, where land meets water, other naturally occurring markers etc; and sort of 'slipping in' them to access the group mind (I guess you could call it that) to find things out so you can get things done.
And @ what Computerism said the people I was around who sort of 'brought me up' I guess, in the spiritual community instilled in me that I'd have to be absolutely bananas to let anyone else have a chance to get their hands on a paper prepared the way you said. I couldn't believe some people would mail them off, I'm glad you didn't.
The Tantric practices I've learned and adopted were a big aid in overcoming my thoughts and nerves when opportunities like you guys mentioned (and also less so opportune BS) and just roll with whatever cards I get dealt with my head fully in the moment.
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Don't tase me, bro!
Edited by RiverRat427 (04/28/10 12:32 PM)
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Quote:
RiverRat427 said:
And @ what Computerism said the people I was around who sort of 'brought me up' I guess, in the spiritual community instilled in me that I'd have to be absolutely bananas to let anyone else have a chance to get their hands on a paper prepared the way you said. I couldn't believe some people would mail them off, I'm glad you didn't.
In rereading their manifesto, I see they also ask for hair from your head and pubic hair to be included. (See "THEE SIGIL OV 3 LIQUIDS.") That's about everything the typical Barnes & Noble Grimoire Witch would need to make you her love slave.
According to Wiki, "If an individual chose to do so, they were invited to mail their sigils to a central location where the magical energy in them could be used to enhance each other."
The group was founded by members of Psychic TV, Current 93 and Coil.
edit: Somewhere in Portland, there is a pile of jizzed on, bled on, spat on, sexual fantasies with hair stuck to them.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
Edited by Computerism (03/15/10 11:12 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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You've got to be shitting me. No joke.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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I've heard of that group before before but I'm not totally familiar with their cosmology or anything in detail. I could see the mechanics behind gathering the personal effects of all the members of a group together to 'enhance' one another but I'd still be wary of the motives behind said group, call me a pessimist.
All pop-culture occultism aside my intro to spiritual practice was an old school conjure shop (less on the love and light than most modern New Age shops) that one can find in pretty much any inner city, I'm sure they must abound where Markos is in South FL; and in such a setting hearing stories of people throwing curses left and right and the occasional discovery of a dead chicken on someone's doorstep is hardly a rare occurrence so over the years I'm made a habit of certain things like picking my hairbrushes clean after use and the like. You can never be too careful.
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Don't tase me, bro!
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