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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally
    #12191512 - 03/12/10 04:55 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally
March 12, 2010 - Christian Science Monitor

White House 'drug czar' Gil Kerlikowske lays out his most thorough arguments yet against marijuana legalization. They help clear up confusion over White House drug policy, and can serve as talking points for parents and officials

The Obama White House has finally laid out its most thorough, reasoned rebuttal to arguments for marijuana legalization – countering a campaign that is gaining alarming momentum at the state level.

The president’s tough position was delivered in early March by his “drug czar,” Gil Kerlikowske, in a private talk before police chiefs in California – which is ground zero for this debate.

“Marijuana legalization – for any purpose – is a nonstarter in the Obama administration,” said Mr. Kerlikowske, a former police chief himself.

It’s almost certain that California voters will be asked in a November ballot initiative whether to allow local governments to regulate and tax marijuana (similar to taxes on sales of alcohol). Other states are considering similar proposals, which are really a backdoor way to legalize pot.

(For a Monitor news story on the California ballot initiative, click here)

Thirteen states have decriminalized the use or possession of small amounts of marijuana, which is not the same as legalizing it. Selling it is still illegal except in states where it is used for medical purposes. And under federal law, any sort of marijuana use or sale is a criminal offense.

The drug czar’s remarks are worth notice for two reasons. First, they provide needed talking points for those who oppose legalization but who can’t seem to make their message resonate in the face of a well-financed, well-organized pro-marijuana effort. Second, they help clear up confusion about the White House policy on legalization.

When Attorney General Eric Holder announced last year that US law enforcement officials would neither raid nor prosecute medical marijuana dispensaries or those using them, states got mixed signals. Mr. Holder explained it as a matter of the best use of scarce federal law enforcement resources, which he didn’t want to expend in the now 14 states that have approved some use of medical marijuana.

But “a lot of people believe the administration is somewhat in favor of the decriminalization of marijuana,” says Scott Kirkland, police chief for El Cerrito, in the San Francisco Bay area. In California, the public, city council members, city managers, even police chiefs have “misinterpreted” the administration’s position, says Mr. Kirkland, the spokesman for marijuana issues for the California Police Chiefs Association.

The drug czar couldn’t have been more plain. On medical marijuana, which has strong public backing in opinion polls, the former Seattle police chief said that “science should determine what a medicine is, not popular vote.” As Kerlikowske pointed out, marijuana is harmful – and he has the studies to back it up. Read the footnotes in his speech; they’re sobering, especially No. 8.

(For a previous Monitor editorial on the perils of legalizing pot, click here)

Legalization supporters argue that no one has ever died from an overdose of this “soft” drug. But here’s what “science” has found so far: Smoking marijuana can result in dependence on the drug.

More than 30 percent of people who are 18 and over and who used marijuana in the past year are either dependent on the drug or abuse it – that is, they use it repeatedly under hazardous conditions or are imparied when they’re supposed to be interacting with others, such as at work. This is according to a 2004 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

Pot is also associated with poor motor skills, cognitive impairment (i.e., affecting the ability to think, reason, and process information), and respiratory and mental illness.

The recent “Pentagon shooter,” John Patrick Bedell, was a heavy marijuana user. The disturbed young man’s psychiatrist told the Associated Press that marijuana made the symptoms of his mental illness more pronounced. Mr. Bedell’s brother, Jeffrey, told The Washington Post that marijuana made his brother’s thinking “more disordered” and that he had implored him to stop smoking pot, to no avail.

Kerlikowske also effectively knocked down the argument that regulating and taxing marijuana is a great way for states to make money in these deficit-dreary times. Indeed, NORML, the lead group in the legalization movement, is set to launch a digital ad campaign in Manhattan’s Times Square next week: “Money CAN grow on trees!”

It’s a claim that’s too good to be true, just as the exclamation point implies. Look at the nation’s experience with regulated alcohol. America collects nearly $15 billion a year in federal and state taxes from alcohol. But Kerlikowske says that covers less than 10 percent of the “social costs” related to healthcare, lost productivity, and law enforcement. And what about lost lives? Let’s not add marijuana to the mix of regulated substances.

“The costs of legalizing marijuana would outweigh any possible tax that could be levied,” Kerlikowske explains. In the United States, illegal drugs already cost an estimated $180 billion annually in social costs, according to the Office of National Drug Control Policy. That number would increase as marijuana became more widely and easily available.

The Dutch – so often praised by marijuana advocates – have had to greatly ratchet back the number of legal marijuana outlets because of crime, nuisance, and increased pot usage among youth. Los Angeles, too, now sees the need to scale back the number of private dispensaries of medical marijuana. Many California towns have looked at L.A. and are saying “no” to dispensaries.

The California Board of Equalization, which administers the state’s sales tax, estimates $1.4 billion of potential revenue from a marijuana tax. Found money? Its reasoning is based on either “a series of assumptions that are in some instances subject to tremendous uncertainty or in other cases not valid,” according to an independent study by the RAND Corporation.

What’s too bad about the drug czar’s speech is that it was made behind closed doors at a venue not accessible to the press, then quietly put on the administration’s website. Given the confusion over the message, the White House needs to be far more outspoken about this.

President Obama himself needs to get more involved than simply letting his drug czar reveal this critical stance below the radar. As a high-profile parent, he can help other parents who are struggling to prevent their children from going down the rabbit hole of drug use. If one message can resonate in this debate, it’s that America’s young people are most vulnerable to the threat of legalization.

They are particularly sensitive to the price of pot (and prices will come down if pot is legalized). They’re the most influenced by societal norms (and public approval is growing). And they’re the ones most heavily engaged in studying and learning – a process that pot smoking can impair.

Individuals who reach age 21 without using drugs are almost certain to never use them. But according to a study by a leading source on young people and drugs, Monitoring the Future, marijuana use among teens has increased in recent years, after a decade of decline. Teens perceive less risk in use – not surprising when states approve of it as medicine. Risk perception greatly influences drug use among young people.

The risks of marijuana – and the wisdom of knowing that joy and satisfaction are not found in a drug – are lessons that Mr. Obama could effectively teach the nation. But even so, it can’t stop there.

The momentum, for now, is with those who want to legalize marijuana. They have been generously financed by a few billionaires, including George Soros, and make strategic use of the Internet and media.

It will take clear-thinking parents, teachers, local officials, faith leaders, and law enforcement officers to convincingly articulate why the march to legalization must be stopped. They can, if they use the kinds of reasonable and fact-based arguments that the nation’s drug czar has just laid out.

(To read Gil Kerlikowske’s speech, click here.)

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Offlineemeraldlife88
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12191593 - 03/12/10 05:15 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Oh honestly, how stupid.

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Offlinesmaerd
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Registered: 03/11/08
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12191622 - 03/12/10 05:21 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What a crock of shit.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/16/03
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12191762 - 03/12/10 05:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Fuck. :mad2:

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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: Le_Canard]
    #12191860 - 03/12/10 06:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

This is so fucking stupid.  Where are they coming up with this shit?

The legalization movement is getting so much momentum, but all it takes is one 'government-approved' article, and all the sheep will just eat this shit up.

Quote:


More than 30 percent of people who are 18 and over and who used marijuana in the past year are either dependent on the drug or abuse it – that is, they use it repeatedly under hazardous conditions or are imparied when they’re supposed to be interacting with others, such as at work. This is according to a 2004 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association.





Hazardous conditions?  That isn't defined in the article, who's to say what is hazardous for each individual?

Quote:


The California Board of Equalization, which administers the state’s sales tax, estimates $1.4 billion of potential revenue from a marijuana tax. Found money? Its reasoning is based on either “a series of assumptions that are in some instances subject to tremendous uncertainty or in other cases not valid,” according to an independent study by the RAND Corporation.




No link to the study?  I bet that's cause it's bullshit and cannot be independently verified.

Quote:



The recent “Pentagon shooter,” John Patrick Bedell, was a heavy marijuana user. The disturbed young man’s psychiatrist told the Associated Press that marijuana made the symptoms of his mental illness more pronounced. Mr. Bedell’s brother, Jeffrey, told The Washington Post that marijuana made his brother’s thinking “more disordered” and that he had implored him to stop smoking pot, to no avail.




So by that logic, alcohol should be illegal since there are MANY alcoholics who go home every night, get drunk, and beat and kill their wives.

I'm so fed up with all this fucking propaganda.  I hope people are starting to wake the fuck up and stop are not buying into this load of shit the government is trying to rain down on us.

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Offlinethe_drummer
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12191866 - 03/12/10 06:02 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It's all right here:


Quote:



The momentum, for now, is with those who want to legalize marijuana. They have been generously financed by a few billionaires, including George Soros, and make strategic use of the Internet and media.





They're worried because public support is a serious threat to their hubris. This kind of response could be expected. This doesn't really change much since the voters still decide. The fact that this so called "speech" was given behind closed doors and poorly publicized lends credence to the belief that the Feds don't really have the balls to stand up to the state governments and say no.


The white house is just rattling it's saber


--------------------



"That's the vernacular, isn't it?" --Mrs. Peel

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Invisiblesmack
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12191914 - 03/12/10 06:12 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally
Individuals who reach age 21 without using drugs are almost certain to never use them. But according to a study by a leading source on young people and drugs, Monitoring the Future, marijuana use among teens has increased in recent years, after a decade of decline. Teens perceive less risk in use – not surprising when states approve of it as medicine. Risk perception greatly influences drug use among young people.



:facepalm:


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14:31

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OfflineVibes
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: smack]
    #12191975 - 03/12/10 06:25 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:megacrankey: I'm so tired of this shit.


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:mushroom2:Good Vibes:mushroom2:



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Offlineinkblot
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: Vibes]
    #12192026 - 03/12/10 06:36 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Don't be so quick to get angry. Do you know what Mr. Kerlikowske just did? He took us seriously. He didn't laugh at us, or call us a bunch of stupid stoners, or make jokes about Doritos. He listened to us and at least tried to rebuke our arguements. He did a pretty shitty job (hard to tell, this article's biased and light on detail), but still, this is a huge step forward. Now we can tear his arguements to shreds and show the folly of marijuana prohibition.

Edited by inkblot (03/12/10 06:38 PM)

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Offlinesheldogg5
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: smack]
    #12192054 - 03/12/10 06:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"It will take clear-thinking parents, teachers, local officials, faith leaders, and law enforcement officers to convincingly articulate why the march to legalization must be stopped. They can, if they use the kinds of reasonable and fact-based arguments that the nation’s drug czar has just laid out."

gotta love the media :facepalm:


--------------------
everything i post is entirely fictional
"and then one day you find 10 years have got behind you no one told you when to run...you missed the starting gun"

"for long you live and high you fly, but only if you ride the tide, balanced on the biggest wave you race towards an early grave"

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OfflineAltecLansing
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: sheldogg5]
    #12192300 - 03/12/10 07:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

People still take this seriously. People actually still take this seriously.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4544

I'm using my own state as an example.

Use = $100 fine

Possession = $2,000 fine

Cultivation of < 20 plants = $20,000 fine

20-200 plants = $500,000 fine

>200 plants = $10,000,000 fine

Misdemeanor Distribution = $1,000 fine

Dist. of <5kg = $20,000 fine

Dist. of 5-45kg = $500,000 fine

Dist. of >45kg = $10,000,000 fine

Hmm, I can't fathom why the government would want to keep charging people with things like cultivation, possession with intent, distribution and the like. It must be for our safety, because safety is what runs the country, right?

And it's not like prohibition stimulates already-in-existence businesses, like the manufacturers of drug tests. Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the U.S. and they test for marijuana once at hire, and again if something is "suspected".


--------------------
I don't use jelly.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12192575 - 03/12/10 08:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/04/22 06:57 PM)

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: AltecLansing]
    #12192605 - 03/12/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Fuck'em all.
They'll have to pry the burning joint from my cold dead fingers before I'll ever stop.


--------------------

Edited by shivas.wisdom (03/12/10 08:53 PM)

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Offlinethe_drummer
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #12192710 - 03/12/10 09:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Fuck'em all.
They'll have to pry the burning joint from my cold dead fingers before I'll ever stop.



:headbang3:


--------------------



"That's the vernacular, isn't it?" --Mrs. Peel

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Offlinewinterone
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #12192728 - 03/12/10 09:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you all realize that this guys kids are serious addicts, right? Serious dysfunctional home life this guy has. And he is dictating drug use to us? WTF


--------------------
Alice
I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12192795 - 03/12/10 09:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Anyone taken a look at the written report?  Anyone dug up the references cited by Gil?

Just curious.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #12192920 - 03/12/10 09:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

>Interesting. I had never really been to that source before (maybe read an article from it here & there), but for some reason I was under the impression that the CS Monitor was a "liberal" organization. Given that they just editorialized 100% government drug war propaganda, I was clearly mistaken.<

I like the CS Monitor. Their opinion pieces are, uh, opinionated. But their straight up news articles are for the most part fact based, balanced, and non-biased.

The link to the pdf of Kerlikowske’s speech is at the bottom of the above article so we can see exactly what he said without spin.

At least now we know how Kerlikowske and the White House stands on the issue. Up until now, they have been sidestepping it entirely, waffling, or scoffing at it as if it was not important.  There are so many more studies and research that contradicts his lightweight arguments. He is cherry picking the few limited resources that support his view.

The Prohibitionists are on the defensive now, as they are outnumbered. Their arguments for continuing this archaic, harmful policy are not valid. And now we know officially what those arguments are.

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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12192991 - 03/12/10 10:10 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The legalization movement is getting so much momentum, but all it takes is one 'government-approved' article, and all the sheep will just eat this shit up.

The sheep already hate obama. He just now pissed off all the free thinking potheads, and he's a pothead himself. Goddammitt!!! :crankey:


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come together

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InvisibleGrizvok
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: Le_Canard]
    #12193247 - 03/12/10 11:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Fuck. :mad2:




Huh? What did you guys expect the federal government to say?

This statement means nothing whatsoever. Having cannabis legalized state by state was and still is the only way the movement will continue.

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Offlinetha_doctor
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Re: Marijuana legalization? A White House rebuttal, finally [Re: veggie]
    #12193770 - 03/13/10 01:48 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It’s almost certain that California voters will be asked in a November ballot initiative whether to allow local governments to regulate and tax marijuana (similar to taxes on sales of alcohol). Other states are considering similar proposals, which are really a backdoor way to legalize pot.





"Backdoor way to legalise pot"? Since when is there a backdoor way? Everything that is going on is so formal that it's stupid.

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