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 Computerism
Propagandist
 
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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I guess the questions I'm trying to get answered are these:
1. Why do you study Kabbalah?
2. What practical uses does it have?
3. What has it done for YOU?
4. How is it going to help me in my every day life?
You answered the first two questions (sort of) in your first paragraph, but no one has answered the last two.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high. 
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,638
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the core of judaism is the Torah
kabalism came much later and is not core
hasidism came later too and while not core it is very rigorous like the sufis or like tibetan buddhism
the torah is the original old testament ant it is used in the same version for all sects of judaism.
aside from that there is a siddur which is used for prayer ceremonies
surprisingly,
with all the variance, and cultural distinctions, the service is substantially the same for each jewish sect (, except reform which is purposefully simplified), and if any congregation lacks 10 men (known as a minyan) it will send out for any kind of jew to join them and participate to make the service bonafide.
I like this inclusive part of it, but I resist being included by just lying, cause I do not like being in synagogue that much.
all religions make me dizzy.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
all religions make me dizzy.
Haha. Thank you for being so candid. That's one of the things that bugs me is that the Torah is basically just the Old Testament. Sometimes it has the Talmud added on. I already disavowed myself from the Old Testament when I denied Christianity. Plus, I'd say I've always liked the New Testament better than the Old Testament, so if I were to do anything involving the Bible, I'd just accept Jesus as my savior, sit back and wait for an easy salvation. ;-)
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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The Torah is for those who go to synagogue, the Talmud is for the intellectuals/philosophers, and the Qabalah (Kabbalah?) is for the wise men or mystics. This was a good description I read from I can't remember where.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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 RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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1-I came across it in my spiritual studies and found it very useful, as a Christian practicing Christian mysticism and Christio-conjure, to better understand the mysticism being practiced at the same time/in the same area as Jesus.
2-Practically, it helped me to get a better understanding how Judeo-Christian teachings compare to other systems of mysticism (Dion Fortune refers to it repeatedly in the book for which the link was given, as "the yoga of the west" which is a pretty accurate assessment).
It's also helped me glean better understanding of the Bible by learning about "gematria", a Quabalistic practice (refered to as "the literal Quabalah") which focuses on the Hebrew alphabet and language as the language of God that bears far deeper meaning than the words and sentences contain at face value. If you're familiar with the Runic alphabet and it's significance in Northern European pagan practices it's similar to that. Each letter has a mystical significance and magical attribution and when they're put together into words, boy howdy. All of a sudden the Bible is more then just a book of stories with morals and lessons but a living code containing the mysteries of the universe.
It plays a big part in western Ritual Magick (that's what separates magic with a 'c' from magick with a 'ck'). The Hebrew words are like the mantras of the east and when pronounced out loud (especially the names of God) bring on changes of consciousness and have magical effects on the environment around you.
3-For me since I began studying it I've become more empowered and had a greater sense of inner peace. It's basically taught me that I'm not just a part of God's creation as a macrocosm but I am God, creation, and the entire universe as a microcosm. Everything that's a part of us is a part of it and vice versa.
I've also gained better understanding of the Bible (Old and New Testament) and the words of Christ.
Essentially the Quabalah is a form of Jewish Gnosticism, it teaches us not to strive for God and heaven but to become consciously united with God which will make heaven unfold "before our eyes" here on earth.
4-Pretty much contained in questions 1-3. The benefits are spiritual growth and enlightenment, personal growth and empowerment, cultivating inner peace and closeness to God.
Like I said it's really deep and hard to discuss any kind of mysticism basically over a message board to someone not familiar with it. It's like trying to explain the feelings/experience of a psychedelic trip to someone who's never tripped before. It helps us dissolve ignorance and our ego and become a part of the divine. It's objectives really aren't any different then any other form of mysticism/spiritual practice, but it comes from a Jewish context and works best for those who follow a Judeo-Christian faith/belief system.
It's worth checking out for yourself, then decide whether you want to pursue it or not. I did and I'd never go back to how I was before I discovered it.
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Don't tase me, bro!
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 skatealex2
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Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 16,743
Last seen: 41 seconds
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
all religions make me dizzy.
Haha. Thank you for being so candid. That's one of the things that bugs me is that the Torah is basically just the Old Testament. Sometimes it has the Talmud added on. I already disavowed myself from the Old Testament when I denied Christianity. Plus, I'd say I've always liked the New Testament better than the Old Testament, so if I were to do anything involving the Bible, I'd just accept Jesus as my savior, sit back and wait for an easy salvation. ;-)
Pretty sure the Torah was around before the testament. 
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Yeah, it appears I had the general gist of it. It's not for me.
I first learned of Kabbalah when I read Crowley's "Book 4" 14 years ago. Then I looked at it off and on since then in various incarnations, including the Qlipoth. Then you see it in the news when people mention Madonna, which is just the funniest shit. Plus a 2nd or 3rd aunt of mine is really into it and recently moved to Israel, but I really don't know her very well. She's a total fruitcake.
The other day when I examined it intently for a couple hours in the morning, I was in effect finalizing my decision whether or not to follow it. I was kind of giving it one more chance in light of my new genetic information, but I really don't think genetics plays any part in what path is mine. I have to go it alone. ;-)
I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Quote:
skatealex2 said:
Pretty sure the Torah was around before the testament.
The Torah includes the 5 books of Moses which are in the Old Testament, so that is what I was referring to.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Like most religions, the mystical sects were the ones who knew what was up.
Judaism --> Kabbalahism
Christianity --> Gnosticism
Islam --> Sufism
Hinduism - Advaita Vedanta
Buddhism - Buddhahood
Its basically the difference between following it or actually embodying it
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RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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People like Madonna make it look bad, that's called fanaticism not Qabalah. Just go with whatever works for you and for what you understand, not what you feel like you should be going with. Qabalah is just a system I find useful.
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Don't tase me, bro!
Edited by RiverRat427 (03/12/10 10:20 AM)
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Hinduism - Advaita Vedanta
Buddhism - Buddhahood
Its basically the difference between following it or actually embodying it
Yes, Buddhism can be exceptionally powerful, especially if one does not limit themselves to the Zen school.
Quote:
RiverRat427 said:
People like Madonna make it look bad, that's called fanaticism not Qabalah.
It's just funny that anyone would follow a spiritual practice because Madonna does it and that she goes around advertising it like anyone should care what she thinks. It's nothing against the practice itself.
Edited by Computerism (03/12/10 12:53 PM)
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RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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Quote:
Computerism said:
Quote:
RiverRat427 said:
People like Madonna make it look bad, that's called fanaticism not Qabalah.
It's just funny that anyone would follow a spiritual practice because Madonna does it and that she goes around advertising it like anyone should care what she thinks. It's nothing against the practice itself.
Yeah, I get that and I agree completely. I would have love to have been there at the Kaballah Center on Rosh Hashanah when they blew the shofar and fucking A-Rod's yarmulke & tallis clad Puerto Rican ass held up the torah.  And now Madonna's old ass has got the baby Jesus taking Kaballah classes before retiring out to their Kaballah WaterTM filled swimming pool. Some people are ridiculous, it's like The Very Brady Movie version of spirituality.
The ultimate goals of Qabalah aren't any different from any other form of mysticism or spirituality, say Buddhism or Tantra or whatever. While it's more elaborate that some systems, those elaborations usually are useful for reaching those objectives which help us reach the ultimate, as opposed to a direct route. It just grew out of a specific cultural context and is works best for those who work within that context.
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Don't tase me, bro!
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MarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Fair enough. A paraphrase won't do the book justice, and you are quite obviously not ready for what it teaches anyway.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
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Loc: South Florida
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It just grew out of a specific cultural context and is works best for those who work within that context
This is true of Kabbalah, but it is not true of Qabalah. In the latter spelling, much of the colorless and abstract principles have been distilled from the very Jewish context, and it becomes known as an occult or esoteric idiom, rather than as a strictly religious one (as in Lubavitcher spirituality). In passing, I'll only mention Cabala, which is a Christianizing adaptation of Kabbalah.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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I think I'll refer to it as QBLH from now on.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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RiverRat427
Something funny happened...
Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 1,085
Loc: ..on the road to Damascus
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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True, but I'm not apt to get into such a deep topic on a message board. Perhaps I would have been better off keeping my mouth shut, or rather my fingers still. I was just trying to help the kid glean some insights into my perspective on it's practice. I don't think anyone could paraphrase anything having to do with Kabbalah/Quabalah/Cabala without ending up having written their own book on the subject.
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Don't tase me, bro!
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Fair enough. A paraphrase won't do the book justice, and you are quite obviously not ready for what it teaches anyway.
Wow, buddy. I think you need to lose the attitude. Is everyone on Earth supposed to be into the same things you are? Obviously it appealed to you on some superficial level before you really got into it, but it doesn't appeal to me. Get over it.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Quote:
RiverRat427 said:
True, but I'm not apt to get into such a deep topic on a message board. Perhaps I would have been better off keeping my mouth shut, or rather my fingers still. I was just trying to help the kid glean some insights into my perspective on it's practice. I don't think anyone could paraphrase anything having to do with Kabbalah/Quabalah/Cabala without ending up having written their own book on the subject.
I'm not a kid. I think you confuse low post count with age and life experience. You really should feel free to discuss your personal point of view on a topic, rather than just throwing books at people. There's nothing that makes the author of that book any better than you. In fact, I don't really see a point to reading books unless you can communicate what you've learned to others in the course of day-to-day life. Perhaps that goes against some hermetic code you have, but I appreciate your speaking up and explaining things in your own words. 
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Occult means hidden for a reason, yo. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Computerism
Propagandist
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Next to a Shrub
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Quote:
Mr. Cypher said:
Occult means hidden for a reason, yo.
The era of hiding is long over.
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Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high.
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