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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source
#12137898 - 03/03/10 09:04 PM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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Many who walk the spiritual path know what it is that they seek, and there are many others who do not, and know only that they want to know. Many seek transcendence, and seek to follow the path of the mystic in a perpetual journey to self-annihilation, to release everything, and to become one with the all, to climb from the depths of Malkuth back to the heights of Kether, and encompass everything and return to the source of everything. My question is why? Why do so many seek out this path, as if polarity and the manifold experiences of the duality are something to be rid of, to be transcended, or negated entirely. Personally, I find the emptiness of the Absolute too chilling, the light of Ain Soph too revealing; not because they represent the highest, but rather because they simplify the manifold beauty of dualistic experience. "The Tao produces one, the one produces two, the two produce three and the three produce all things", just as the Ain Soph sends its light downward into the Sephiroth, giving us duality and experience. We are the river that flows from this source, why do we feel the need to return?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12137980 - 03/03/10 09:13 PM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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No old age and hemorrhoids in the emptiness of the Absolute
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: Icelander]
#12137984 - 03/03/10 09:13 PM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: No old age and hemorrhoids in the emptiness of the Absolute
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 5 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12138228 - 03/03/10 09:44 PM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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release the reign! it may pull you yet it holds you always to the plane...
there is no rider just a horseless flyer seeing himself gallop along the ground his own mind built...
let go, and, let go of letting go so the rider dissolves into the wind; the flow
the sun is not the source but the destination for once you lose the horse you can face ascension...
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: deff]
#12138303 - 03/03/10 09:53 PM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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It seems most of us have this innate drive to reconnect. If you are cool with the duality, then more power to yea
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: deff]
#12138319 - 03/03/10 09:54 PM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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I like that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 5 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: Icelander]
#12138518 - 03/03/10 10:21 PM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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thanks i wrote it a few years back
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12140090 - 03/04/10 04:22 AM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
satyr said: Personally, I find the emptiness of the Absolute too chilling We are the river that flows from this source, why do we feel the need to return?
Emptiness is not cold, this is the mind objectifying it This awareness includes everything so so beautifully
Beings feel the need to return to the source because they feel the need to be happy, its the same thing
Lovely poem death, sorry i mean deff! Only emptiness can write words like that
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Edited by Chronic7 (03/04/10 04:28 AM)
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: Chronic7]
#12140730 - 03/04/10 09:14 AM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
satyr said: Personally, I find the emptiness of the Absolute too chilling We are the river that flows from this source, why do we feel the need to return?
Emptiness is not cold, this is the mind objectifying it This awareness includes everything so so beautifully
Beings feel the need to return to the source because they feel the need to be happy, its the same thing
But what makes one believe that there is this "happiness" to be found in annihilation of the carefully established self? What I'm saying is, once this is let go, there is no "you" anymore. Most are seeking this happiness while in ordinary awareness, from the point of view of the self as a suit of armor, not the eternal Self.
They are looking for something to satisfy the ego, the same ego which will face utter and absolute destruction beyond the abyss. Do you see the predicament here.
Many people get lost and caught up in New Age religion, become entangled in the ideas of "transcendence" and "enlightenment", all the while ignoring the wonders of polarized experience, and dismissing the human condition as something negative, a burden to be escaped from.
I bring this up not to judge anyones decision on their particular path, but to arouse questions to be asked. All paths are valid, and inevitably all lead to the same destination, but it is healthy to question from time to time the reasons why we do what we do, to know what it is we seek, to know our true will and do it. The ego is often at the wheel and we don't realize it.
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12140790 - 03/04/10 09:28 AM (14 years, 28 days ago) |
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Yes yes, this is brilliant really Anything thats questioning our motives, intentions & thoughts is great in my eyes
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Edited by Chronic7 (03/04/10 09:37 AM)
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: Chronic7]
#12140840 - 03/04/10 09:42 AM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
I feel it like seek the truth with every cell of your entire being, but at the same time completely abandon the search, this may make sense to someone...
The search is consuming, as it should be, and in my case the it took me far and wide, yet eventually right back to the beginning, in realization that I already had the truth in my lap, I just didn't recognize it as such. I could have abandoned the search, and still would have had the knowledge, but not the understanding.
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12140854 - 03/04/10 09:46 AM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Every path is perfect All paths move in this awareness and subside in this awareness So the return to the source is distanceless
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: Chronic7]
#12140909 - 03/04/10 09:58 AM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Of course We are never disconnected from source, ultimately, there is nothing to transcend. My goal has always been to remain conscious of this connection, to know the purpose and reason that we flowed forth from the source in the first place. But again, the beauty of everything is in the fact that there is no right or wrong pursuit. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. Whichever way we take, we are following divine will. Just the act of seeking brings answers, seek and ye shall find, look and ye shall see. The act of seeking is the light that shines in the darkness, and we all know that the darkest room can be illuminated by the smallest of flames. What is darkness but the absence of light?
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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oxalic32
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 3,615
Loc: .
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12140913 - 03/04/10 09:59 AM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
satyr said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
satyr said: Personally, I find the emptiness of the Absolute too chilling We are the river that flows from this source, why do we feel the need to return?
Emptiness is not cold, this is the mind objectifying it This awareness includes everything so so beautifully
Beings feel the need to return to the source because they feel the need to be happy, its the same thing
But what makes one believe that there is this "happiness" to be found in annihilation of the carefully established self? What I'm saying is, once this is let go, there is no "you" anymore. Most are seeking this happiness while in ordinary awareness, from the point of view of the self as a suit of armor, not the eternal Self.
They are looking for something to satisfy the ego, the same ego which will face utter and absolute destruction beyond the abyss. Do you see the predicament here.
Many people get lost and caught up in New Age religion, become entangled in the ideas of "transcendence" and "enlightenment", all the while ignoring the wonders of polarized experience, and dismissing the human condition as something negative, a burden to be escaped from.
I bring this up not to judge anyones decision on their particular path, but to arouse questions to be asked. All paths are valid, and inevitably all lead to the same destination, but it is healthy to question from time to time the reasons why we do what we do, to know what it is we seek, to know our true will and do it. The ego is often at the wheel and we don't realize it.
The one time my entire sense of self dissolved i felt -Totally and completely loved. There was no judging only beingness itself. -Eternal ecstatic bliss. Cannot be compared to any drug high including ecstasy. -You have the knowledge. You have truth. -There are no concerns. You dont worry about a day job. You dont worry about all the shit you used to. -Its complete release. You can always go back to living in duality but you dont have to.
The "real world" isn't that real. Many believe its a simulation created by the mind. Its like you're playing a highly advanced version of the SIMS. You can do whatever you want but you are limited but the game itself. After awhile its like the SIMS in that it feels like a chore. You clean clothes, eat, drink, go to the bathroom, shower, go to work. You keep chasing happiness you get it, but you always lose it. You can never hold onto happiness in this world.
Even if you dont want to go all the way you can still make it to a higher level of consciousness (depending on what religion/beliefs you follow).
Life on Earth can be seen as a test. It allows the good and the bad to suffer so they can learn. Being reborn again and again is suffering again and again. It can also be wonderful, you can have all of your firsts back. You can fall in love again. But ultimately if you go through life you will have to experience suffering.
After awhile you just get tired of playing the game. When you realize how it works and who made it you might kind of laugh at how seriously you took it.
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: oxalic32]
#12140980 - 03/04/10 10:12 AM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
oxalic32 said:
The one time my entire sense of self dissolved i felt -Totally and completely loved. There was no judging only beingness itself. -Eternal ecstatic bliss. Cannot be compared to any drug high including ecstasy. -You have the knowledge. You have truth. -There are no concerns. You dont worry about a day job. You dont worry about all the shit you used to. -Its complete release. You can always go back to living in duality but you dont have to.
The "real world" isn't that real. Many believe its a simulation created by the mind. Its like you're playing a highly advanced version of the SIMS. You can do whatever you want but you are limited but the game itself. After awhile its like the SIMS in that it feels like a chore. You clean clothes, eat, drink, go to the bathroom, shower, go to work. You keep chasing happiness you get it, but you always lose it. You can never hold onto happiness in this world.
Even if you dont want to go all the way you can still make it to a higher level of consciousness (depending on what religion/beliefs you follow).
Life on Earth can be seen as a test. It allows the good and the bad to suffer so they can learn. Being reborn again and again is suffering again and again. It can also be wonderful, you can have all of your firsts back. You can fall in love again. But ultimately if you go through life you will have to experience suffering.
After awhile you just get tired of playing the game. When you realize how it works and who made it you might kind of laugh at how seriously you took it.
The dissolving of self you experienced is easily attained within body, through drugs, meditation, ritual, ect. This experience is blissful, it is an ecstatic sensation that should be experienced again and again, as much learning comes from it. However, this is not the ultimate destruction that I spoke of earlier. This is merely a transcendence of body, an ascension into higher realms of consciousness that one can choose to navigate with proper training and experience. You can be completely happy in physical body, I live in utter bliss every minute that I'm occupying this animal. Life doesn't have to be a chore, a burden, a source of suffering and pain. Pain and pleasure are both experiences, and neither one of them are superior or inferior to the other.
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12141110 - 03/04/10 10:44 AM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Many people get lost and caught up in New Age religion, become entangled in the ideas of "transcendence" and "enlightenment", all the while ignoring the wonders of polarized experience, and dismissing the human condition as something negative, a burden to be escaped from.
I couldn't say for myself that i have been caught up in new age religion but i do see this condition as a burden.
What i have found lately to be my interest is not enlightenment or what have you. I've experienced that , and realized that it is not something to become , rather , what we are when all we have become is forgotten. My interest is - having interesting experiences.
Why do i see this experience as a burden ?
This might seem strange , but i dont like the fact that i have to take care of my body. I have to eat , drink , piss , shit.. brush my teeth , shave , wash my nuts.
These are just the basics and even though i perform these activities , they bore me. Not to mention having to work , or dealing with chemical reactions when i wish to experience another human of the opposite sex. Having to walk for 3 minutes to the store. Having to go to the store at all..
Most of all.. what i have found to be most frustrating , is the fact that emotion is what makes all these experiences beautiful , yet it is the one thing keeping me from perfecting any activity i indulge in.
f.e. a basketball player is less likely to make a shot , should he want it really bad , or if he is afraid that he wont. And either one of these is most likely the cause to even deciding to become good at something.
i cant really find the best words to explain my thoughts. i guess what im trying to say basically is that you are less likely to die skydiving , if you aren't afraid of it. the fear releases adrenaline and its what makes the experience amazing.
People thrive on drama. Those that don't are the winners. And i dont mean this in a "better than you" kinda way..
I noticed a weird thing a couple years ago. I was at this street court , and this guy gave me a pill. Something along the lines of xanax only much weaker. No real effects on the body , but it calms you down , and gets rid of anxiety.
Never played a better game of basketball in my life. I simply didn't care. I wasn't really thinking or feeling anything at all... and i was making shots like crazy. But.. i got bored with it pretty quick.
am i making any sense ?
-------------------- --------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: jivJaN]
#12141288 - 03/04/10 11:19 AM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Well you know id say that interest or boredom is all mind Its nice to be bored with the mind, rather than being bored as the mind Really the mind is setup to experience boredom because any object the mind can find interest in is just gonna be replaced by a fresher interest in the near future So id leave boredom & interest to fluctuate, just remain beyond it Then you can have full emotion with no attachment to it, as theres no fear of it or desire for it.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 5 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: Chronic7]
#12141514 - 03/04/10 12:05 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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yeah, i think emotions can arise without clinging to them or to the idea of "you" as the creator/experiencer of them (as this thought alone is distracting from the moment)
i think a major problem is the mind is too reflexive - it always tries to 'find itself' within the passing phenomena which it experiences - when really the is no self to be found - it's just a flow of mental experience
i think one can embrace the flow without touching the flow and especially without reflecting experience back into the idea of a self being the experiencer (as in "i want to be happy, i am now happy, i want to be happy again" etc) and instead just *happiness*
the more we simplify the thinking process the more depth and meaning seems to spill out of each moment (and this can include emotions)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: deff]
#12141689 - 03/04/10 12:31 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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oxalic32
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 3,615
Loc: .
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12141781 - 03/04/10 12:47 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
satyr said:
Quote:
oxalic32 said:
The one time my entire sense of self dissolved i felt -Totally and completely loved. There was no judging only beingness itself. -Eternal ecstatic bliss. Cannot be compared to any drug high including ecstasy. -You have the knowledge. You have truth. -There are no concerns. You dont worry about a day job. You dont worry about all the shit you used to. -Its complete release. You can always go back to living in duality but you dont have to.
The "real world" isn't that real. Many believe its a simulation created by the mind. Its like you're playing a highly advanced version of the SIMS. You can do whatever you want but you are limited but the game itself. After awhile its like the SIMS in that it feels like a chore. You clean clothes, eat, drink, go to the bathroom, shower, go to work. You keep chasing happiness you get it, but you always lose it. You can never hold onto happiness in this world.
Even if you dont want to go all the way you can still make it to a higher level of consciousness (depending on what religion/beliefs you follow).
Life on Earth can be seen as a test. It allows the good and the bad to suffer so they can learn. Being reborn again and again is suffering again and again. It can also be wonderful, you can have all of your firsts back. You can fall in love again. But ultimately if you go through life you will have to experience suffering.
After awhile you just get tired of playing the game. When you realize how it works and who made it you might kind of laugh at how seriously you took it.
The dissolving of self you experienced is easily attained within body, through drugs, meditation, ritual, ect. This experience is blissful, it is an ecstatic sensation that should be experienced again and again, as much learning comes from it. However, this is not the ultimate destruction that I spoke of earlier. This is merely a transcendence of body, an ascension into higher realms of consciousness that one can choose to navigate with proper training and experience. You can be completely happy in physical body, I live in utter bliss every minute that I'm occupying this animal. Life doesn't have to be a chore, a burden, a source of suffering and pain. Pain and pleasure are both experiences, and neither one of them are superior or inferior to the other.
I was not the only thing that dissolved. I was not finding a greater self in the sense most people take it. I mean everything was one. Subject object dichotomy was no longer there.
I felt like i hit the roof of consciousness. Going farther couldn't even be thought of. I just felt infinite, loving, blissful, and i was doing my only purpose which was beingness itself.
Life is a learning experience. While there is nothing quite like life i think transcending it is still a goal i have.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
Loc:
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: satyr]
#12141825 - 03/04/10 12:54 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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"God exists. If you are convinced of God's existence then it rests with you to seek Him, to see Him and to realize Him.
Do not search for God outside of you. God can only be found within you, for His only abode is the heart.
But you have filled His abode with millions of strangers and He cannot enter, for He is shy of strangers. Unless you empty His abode of these millions of strangers you have filled it with, you will never find God.
These strangers are your age-old desires—your millions of wants. They are strangers to God because want is an expression of incompleteness and is fundamentally foreign to Him who is All-sufficient and wanting in nothing. Honesty in your dealings with others will clear the strangers out of your heart.
Then you will find Him, see Him and realize Him." Guess who? hah. He says the moment you become conscious of nothing the result is simultaneous consciousness of everything. Enlightenment isn't emptiness, its fullness, they are the same, "emptiness is form, form is emptiness".
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: On annihilation, transcendence, and the return back to source [Re: soldatheero]
#12142409 - 03/04/10 02:18 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: These strangers are your age-old desires—your millions of wants. They are strangers to God because want is an expression of incompleteness and is fundamentally foreign to Him who is All-sufficient and wanting in nothing.
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