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lIXII said:
The Roma herbalists are pretty badass, they do not shy away from the strong herbs for the right need. I also learnt a lot from them about herbs for men's health, since herbs are traditionally considered manly.

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lIXII said:
St. Johns Wort is used by the Roma in what some may consider 'sex-magic'. For an easy use, apply the 'cinnabar red' oil infusion of the plant on the sensitive parts of the sex organs, in a few minutes the area will be more 'excited'.

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AmericanSpirit said:
I have read that many amongst the Roma prefer not to be called Gypsies. This term implies that they were originally from Egypt, that concept is where the word came from, when in actuality they were originally from India.

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deCypher said:

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AmericanSpirit said:
I have read that many amongst the Roma prefer not to be called Gypsies. This term implies that they were originally from Egypt, that concept is where the word came from, when in actuality they were originally from India.

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Yes, the only reason I said 'gypsy' was because it's known more commonly.

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Not that you wanna upset them.

To basically sum it up, Romano magic is mainly about healing and achieving balance and their spirituality is heavily influenced by their travels and by their understanding of the various aspects of the cultural beliefs of the people they came into contact with based on their own cultural beliefs and practices which they held when encountering said people. I can't really go in depth into their core beliefs and practices, myself being essentially an outsider; but I too can theorize and try to glean deeper understanding based on what I have encountered in comparison to my own understanding and beliefs. The Gypsies I've had direct dealings with are more like old chums I've known since I was around eleven or twelve, and at that time matters of spirituality weren't something considered really appropriate to be discussed among young boys and up to this present time I don't really inquire about it, out of respect and to not be considered rude and nosy (the Roma are big on honor and respect) but spirituality is a big part of Gypsy culture and is so ingrained in life within the culture some practices are a part of day-to-day life and can't be missed when one is quietly observing. This is especially true when it comes to community events like Baptisms/Weddings/Funerals.

To the Roma the spiritual world seems to be more the woman's domain, with women growing in knowlege/respect within the community the older they get, but it's more of a silent respect. Men in turn are respected for their political/social status within the community, based on how honorable they are. People reading about Romano society may interpret it as being oppressive of women, but in reality this isn't really so, with women being the go-to people (especially the older 'aunts') when it comes to making daily decisions and needing advice; men making decisions that affect their household and the community at large, but not without some feminine council beforehand.

Herbs as remedies are a big part of the day-to-day life in Gypsy culture, and as IIXII stated they are traditionally considered manly, in my mind because as such they have a direct action on the physical world; as opposed to a 'subtler' more feminine action. One such substance I know of which isn't an herb per se but who's use is uniquely Gypsy is called Jokayee (again this is all phonetic sp.), which I have read is actually slime mold, is believed to be the vomit of the luck-eating ancestral spirit I mentioned previously and is considered a spiritual medicine par excellence, being made into little wafers and administered after a spiritual disturbance. If you're familiar with the 'spiritual malady' known as susto, it is similar to the condition healed by Jokayee and is brought on by breaking a Gypsy spiritual taboo.

With the esteem datura holds within the Romano phamacopeia, combined with the use of the word 'trishul' as the cross of Christ (compared to the trishula of Shiva); one can not doubt that shamanic practices and altered states of consciousness played a big part of the formation of Gypsy spiritual cosmology.

My mention of animistic beliefs stems from seeing how simple, elemental (in the sense of natural elements and not elemental as 'basic') operations play a big part in Gypsy spiritual practices; things like the burning of candles or significance of water in bathing and as a spiritual medium. The Roma believe in God and the Devil, but there's also the different herbs, the sun, the moon, etc. all alive and flowing with divine presence and spiritual energy.

I can't really give you any specific magical operations or spells or whatever in particular, and I'd be wary of any that I came across in literature or by word of mouth as the term 'Gypsy' is all-to-often thrown around in cheap occult books to add an aura of mystery and allure to whatever illogical nonsense whatever crackpot's trying to push. The best advice I can give you about Gypsy magic and spirituality is to follow suit with the Gypsy attitude; be practical, look at the array of spirituality and magical practices that you'll come across over the course of your 'wanderings' through life, see how they fit in with what you already know and believe. If something works for you, terrific! Adopt it into your knowledge banks as truth. If not, fuck it. Don't sweat, just leave it for the people for whom it does work, move on, and let it keep on working for them.

Peace

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lIXII said:
"herbal healing practiced by Roma is more about using herbs as spiritual medicine to treat the spiritual cause of disease, less about phytochemicals"

Indeed, the biochemical model for medicine was created, as such, by a particular group of people & so is only useful to those who learn it, adapt it to their cosmology. All systems of medicine, herbalism are truly based on what works, observed over time, via whatever 'trance' or technique (astrological, microscopy, elemental...) of understanding, illustration we choose/have. Modern humans have lost massive amounts of knowledge over time, and gained others.

"But when you really think about it where does the line between religion, spirituality, superstition, and magic really lie. Is there even really a difference at all?"

The potential differences are in how one chooses to approach it, how important barriers and definitive lines are to the individual. It can be more or less intact based on so many reasons/choices. It seems practical, for me, to refer to the general tendencies by the modern-common understanding, for example, instead of claiming to practice magic, I can say science. It is the practical outcome of practice/understanding and refining over time to achieve efficiency and wisdom or knowledge of the world.

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I agree with that one hundred percent. The point I was trying to make with those statements was that people's perception of what constitutes something as being religious or occult or scientific or superstitious or whatever makes it so in the mind of that person.

I remember in my junior year of high school I took an anthropology/forensics class as an elective, during the first week of the class we had to read an ethnography of a culture called the Nacirema, describing the daily life of the culture (from an outsider's perspective) and going into specific detail on the subject of a yearly visit to a den of sickness and death where the people are to be stripped, poked and prodded, and have bodily secretions mixed up into various potions intended to divine one's fortune in health; if the outcome was good they got to leave with a breath of relief but if it came out bad they risked all kinds of gruesome procedures and risky not-to-surefire treatments intended to restore them back to optimum health. Most of the class was aghast and thought it was a primitive and/or stupid practice, thankful they lived here in the civilized west. Very few of us had noticed that Nacirema was American spelled backwards and the article described a yearly doctor's appointment. Most people felt stupid. I myself loved it, very "Krippendorf's Tribe".

The reason I said the phytochemical thing is because herbal medicine in the west is more commonly based on classifying the actions of herbs of their being tannic or mucilaginous or having saponins or whatever, as opposed to the study of each herb by it's unique characteristics; unless it has a commonly acknowledged action which warrants further 'scientific' laboratory study trying to isolate some 'magical' compound responsible for such action.

St John's Wort is good example, modern 'science' having it's theories about it's antidepressant effects but they're still not really sure how exactly it works but it's use continues nonetheless, because it works for those who use it. The 'cinnabar red' infusion oil you mention (I assume you're talking about of the flower heads) and the use you gave for it is interesting, I haven't heard of it myself, but I could understand it's use based on my experience with the plant and by my understanding of Romano culture. Thanks for sharing it.

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RiverRat427 said:
One such substance I know of which isn't an herb per se but who's use is uniquely Gypsy is called Jokayee (again this is all phonetic sp.), which I have read is actually slime mold, is believed to be the vomit of the luck-eating ancestral spirit I mentioned previously and is considered a spiritual medicine par excellence, being made into little wafers and administered after a spiritual disturbance. If you're familiar with the 'spiritual malady' known as susto, it is similar to the condition healed by Jokayee and is brought on by breaking a Gypsy spiritual taboo.

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The most powerful Gypsy cure is a substance called  coxai,  or ghost vomit. According to Gypsy legends,  Mamorio  or "little grandmother" is a dirty, sickness-bringing ghost who eats people, then vomits on garbage piles. There, Gypsies find and gather what scientists call slime mold, and bake it with flour into rocks.

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