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Offlinedeliciosa
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
    #12005514 - 02/10/10 11:33 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)



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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: bardleyrichard]
    #12005525 - 02/10/10 11:35 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bardleyrichard said:
I'm pretty sure nobody is "attacking" this thread or the OP. One poster just pointed out that it is common knowledge (after being on the shroomery for a bit) that cold shocking is not a pinning trigger.
The OP seemed to want to disprove the workings of cold shocking cold shocking, and he did, but it has already been done.
No attacking, just pointing that out.





As I understand it, the main point of this tek is to dry out the cakes a bit during consolidation, causing them to pin very aggressively when they are then hydrated.  A secondary point is to go very heavy on FAE during pinning, somewhat at the expense of humidity.

What does that have to do with cold shocking, or with "re-inventing the wheel"?


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OfflineJonEveryman88
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: gornyhuy]
    #12005565 - 02/10/10 11:41 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Nothing at all. The guy making that argument was just on his period or had some sand in his vagina.:lol:


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OfflineMontock
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: bardleyrichard]
    #12005618 - 02/10/10 11:49 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bardleyrichard said:
I'm pretty sure nobody is "attacking" this thread or the OP. One poster just pointed out that it is common knowledge (after being on the shroomery for a bit) that cold shocking is not a pinning trigger.
The OP seemed to want to disprove the workings of cold shocking cold shocking, and he did, but it has already been done.
No attacking, just pointing that out.



i read the whole thread, and what i got from it, is that the op is pointing out that that cold shocking is old info, and he is doing the opposite, kinda, introducing extra heat and drying it out prior to dunking, i think its neat to see new concepts, but to me the stress of drying out your cakes, and introducing heat isnt appealing to me, i might give it a try if i ever do the pf tek, which will be quite a few moons down the road if ever, not knocking the pf tek, i just enjoy my mono's


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Offlinebardleyrichard
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: gornyhuy]
    #12005688 - 02/10/10 11:58 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gornyhuy said:
Quote:

bardleyrichard said:
I'm pretty sure nobody is "attacking" this thread or the OP. One poster just pointed out that it is common knowledge (after being on the shroomery for a bit) that cold shocking is not a pinning trigger.
The OP seemed to want to disprove the workings of cold shocking cold shocking, and he did, but it has already been done.
No attacking, just pointing that out.





As I understand it, the main point of this tek is to dry out the cakes a bit during consolidation, causing them to pin very aggressively when they are then hydrated.  A secondary point is to go very heavy on FAE during pinning, somewhat at the expense of humidity.

What does that have to do with cold shocking, or with "re-inventing the wheel"?



I'm not even going to bother trying...
Maybe try reading the thread in it's entirety and then read my post.
I'm off to bed. :sleeping:


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Invisiblegeohoe
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
    #12005753 - 02/11/10 12:06 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LeopardMan said:

Not low moisture but high moisture. Anyway I appreciate your advices. Isolating the causes of the results it's not an easy task though.
5 finnish shrooms for you (;))




I had to re-read your post to get that.  Not that your English was poor, I simply misunderstood the hydration procedure.  I'd shroom you back but I'm working on my post count to get the privilege.  Maljanne!


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Offlinedread
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: geohoe]
    #12006101 - 02/11/10 12:53 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I would be interested to see someone do a scientific experiment with this.  Since Leo is using MS it is difficult to determine if his success is due to the heat shocking or not.  I am not in a position to grow right now otherwise i would try it myself.  Leo you could clone one of your shrooms and then do an experiment with two groups of cakes in the same fc and keep all the variables constant except have one group exposed to the heat shock and one group not, then you could prove your theory.  Right now the correlation is indeed interesting but it it does not prove cause and effect.  Of course anyone else could try this as well.  And Leo thank you for the tek it's always nice to see new stuff on here, especially when it's written out in clear instructions!


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OfflineLeopardMan
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Cloneufc]
    #12006913 - 02/11/10 03:47 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cloneufc said:
Quote:

LeopardMan said:
Cold shocking is considered a pinning trigger. First mistake. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel, just sharing some ideas that need to be tested again and again. Second mistake.

Quote:

Cloneufc said:
The tek requires unnecessary steps.




Please explain.

Quote:

You'll get better flushes with hydrated cakes overall. The reason your still getting good flushes is that cubensis is real forgiving.




I believe you. Let me see your cakes then. :lol:




"Cold shocking is considered a pinning trigger" LeopardMan


"So funny. I've never said cold shocking is a pinning trigger" LeopardMan




Maybe it's just me but I see a difference. :shrug:

Quote:

The need for a heatbomb is an unnecessary step.




You know what? You talk like a politician. Brief statements without explanations.

Quote:

I havent messed with cakes in years.




I've noticed that.

Quote:

I do bulk. I dont get the best pinset but I make up for it in pounds. Cakes are cute you get grams.




Wow. I am trembling.


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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan] * 1
    #12006994 - 02/11/10 04:11 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

OK, I tried to fly over every post that was made so far and didn't find what I was looking for. If it was said before, I apologize for being such a lazy reader.

I guess by now, we all know, that dunking in the fridge and Cold Shocking are two different things.
While dunking in the fridge is indeed done in order to reduce the chance of bacterial growth, cold shocking is a longer period the mushroom is set to cold conditions.
Cold shocking has nothing to do with water, but just with temperatures.

What didn't came up in this thread yet (and that was what I was looking for), is that cold shocking is indeed a pinning trigger. Just not for Psilocybe cubensis or any other tropic species, but for mushrooms, that grow in moderate temperature zones.
Psilocybe azurescens or Psilocybe cyanescens are two examples that benefit from cold shocking.
As you probably know, these species develop during spring and summer and fruit in fall.
Preferable after a longer period of low temperatures between 40 and 50 degrees.
The mycelium of these species grows perfectly fine in the same temperatures the mycelium of any tropic species grows in. They won't fruit in these temperatures, though.
That is the reason why they benefit from being set to cold conditions over a period of about 10 days in order to give the mushroom an additional signal, that the right time "of the year" has come to develop fruit bodies.
The temperatures they mature in don't need to be that cold. But they obviously need a period of cold weather condition to fruit in the first place.

I hope that clears things up.

Once again: If this has been said before in this thread, I apologize for being a superfluous smart ass:stoned:


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OfflineLeopardMan
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: bardleyrichard]
    #12007010 - 02/11/10 04:17 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bardleyrichard said:
The OP seemed to want to disprove the workings of cold shocking cold shocking, and he did, but it has already been done.




This is ridicolous. Like gornyhuy said this tek has nothing to do with cold shocking. There are only two occurences of the expression and there are more than 1000 words in the whole document.

I've not tried to disprove anything.


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OfflineLeopardMan
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Fahkface]
    #12007019 - 02/11/10 04:22 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fahkface said:
OK, I tried to fly over every post that was made so far and didn't find what I was looking for. If it was said before, I apologize for being such a lazy reader.

I guess by now, we all know, that dunking in the fridge and Cold Shocking are two different things.
While dunking in the fridge is indeed done in order to reduce the chance of bacterial growth, cold shocking is a longer period the mushroom is set to cold conditions.
Cold shocking has nothing to do with water, but just with temperatures.

What didn't came up in this thread yet (and that was what I was looking for), is that cold shocking is indeed a pinning trigger. Just not for Psilocybe cubensis or any other tropic species, but for mushrooms, that grow in moderate temperature zones.
Psilocybe azurescens or Psilocybe cyanescens are two examples that benefit from cold shocking.
As you probably know, these species develop during spring and summer and fruit in fall.
Preferable after a longer period of low temperatures between 40 and 50 degrees.
The mycelium of these species grows perfectly fine in the same temperatures the mycelium of any tropic species grows in. They won't fruit in these temperatures, though.
That is the reason why they benefit from being set to cold conditions over a period of about 10 days in order to give the mushroom an additional signal, that the right time "of the year" has come to develop fruit bodies.
The temperatures they mature in don't need to be that cold. But they obviously need a period of cold weather condition to fruit in the first place.

I hope that clears things up.

Once again: If this has been said before in this thread, I apologize for being a superfluous smart ass:stoned:




Thanks Fahkface. That's exactly what I said. I would be curious to know your opinion about the whole tek though. Constructive criticism would be much appreciated.:wink:


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OfflineCloneufc
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
    #12007047 - 02/11/10 04:31 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Its not an attack on LeopardMan. There are hundreds of pictures on here with people having the same results as LeopardMan without that pinning strategy. The same results using the regular PF tek. Having a good pinset is partly due to MS genetics. Do you think all of his cakes have that great of a pinset? Of course not. He's just taking pictures of his best ones. Im not knocking the flushes they are great but he's not the only one to get flushes like this. Myself and many others have gotten similar results using the regular PF tek. I hate to say the truth but many noobs come on here looking for the magic bullet. When the Oven tek or other bogus teks came out, it became the stable for noobs. I call some of the teks on here SNAKE OIL.

Someone else on here brought up a good point. The best way to test this theory is with several people using an isolate.

For those of you who dont understand what reinventing the wheel means, it means the PF tek is as good as it gets for cakes, just like a circle is as good as it gets for a wheel.



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OfflineFahkface
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
    #12007061 - 02/11/10 04:36 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

A mixture of drying and misting has shown to act as a major pinning trigger in the past. As long as the water that got lost is replaced properly it seems to be beneficial to let a substrate be on the dry side for short periods of time. You shouldn't overdo it though. You don't want to harm the mycelium.

However you do not want standing water on pins or primordia for a longer time. This will mostly result in aborts. Not only in my experience, but in the experience of many other people as well.
You're supposed to mist cakes directly as long as enough FAE is provided in order to give the water, that's not soaked off by the cake/verm, a chance to evaporate.
Standing water is always a good way to get contams. So be careful with this as well.

I yet have no idea, weather your tek (that's indeed written in a fine way:thumbup:) is a general improvement. It is, however a try. if it works for you, it might work for other people as well.

I will give it try, just to see what happens.
I'll use an isolate for best comparison.

Quote:

Its not an attack on LeopardMan. There are hundreds of pictures on here with people having the same results as LeopardMan without that pinning strategy. The same results using the regular PF tek. Having a good pinset is partly due to MS genetics. Do you think all of his cakes have that great of a pinset? Of course not. He's just taking pictures of his best ones. Im not knocking the flushes they are great but he's not the only one to get flushes like this. Myself and many others have gotten similar results using the regular PF tek. I hate to say the truth but many noobs come on here looking for the magic bullet. When the Oven tek or other bogus teks came out, it became the stable for noobs. I call some of the teks on here SNAKE OIL.

Someone else on here brought up a good point. The best way to test this theory is with several people using an isolate.

For those of you who dont understand what reinventing the wheel means, it means the PF tek is as good as it gets for cakes, just like a circle is as good as it gets for a wheel.




I know where you coming from. No doubt about it.
I too had results like this plenty of time.
But that's not really what it's about.
"New teks" should always be enjoyed with care.
His tek is a concept and as far as I have seen it, he never actually claimed it's "the new way to go".
In my opinion it's highly important, that new methods are tested. Sharing ideas in these forums is a good way to inspire people to test them and give their statement about it.
As we can see, when we take a look at the past, many methods are outdated, because people came up with new insights and teks.
This does not mean, that what he wrote actually benefits anything, but this has to be tested.
That's my opinion about new teks.
Mushrooms are quite a mysterious life form and we still know next to nothing about it. Time has shown, that logic often resulted in failure, when it comes to mushrooms. But sometimes it helps.
We should try to find out about it, shouldn't we?


Edited by Fahkface (02/11/10 04:42 AM)


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OfflineLeopardMan
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Fahkface]
    #12007072 - 02/11/10 04:45 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fahkface said:
A mixture of drying and misting has shown to act as a major pinning trigger in the past. As long as the water that got lost is replaced properly it seems to be beneficial to let a substrate be on the dry side for short periods of time. You shouldn't overdo it though. You don't want to harm the mycelium.

However you do not want standing water on pins or primordia for a longer time. This will mostly result in aborts. Not only in my experience, but in the experience of many other people as well.
You're supposed to mist cakes directly as long as enough FAE is provided in order to give the water, that's not soaked off by the cake/verm, a chance to evaporate.
Standing water is always a good way to get contams. So be careful with this as well.

I yet have no idea, weather your tek (that's indeed written in a fine way:thumbup:) is a general improvement. It is, however a try. if it works for you, it might work for other people as well.

I will give it try, just to see what happens.
I'll use an isolate for best comparison.




This is a great analysis. And I am looking forward to know your results. About standing water: the so called "slow dunk" technique was inspired by tahoe:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9631950#9631950

I am not saying you don't have good reasons to say it could have a negative effect on pins though. Thank you very much for your comment.


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OfflineLeopardMan
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Fahkface]
    #12007076 - 02/11/10 04:48 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fahkface said:
I know where you coming from. No doubt about it.
I too had results like this plenty of time.
But that's not really what it's about.
"New teks" should always be enjoyed with care.
His tek is a concept and as far as I have seen it, he never actually claimed it's "the new way to go".
In my opinion it's highly important, that new methods are tested. Sharing ideas in these forums is a good way to inspire people to test them and give their statement about it.
As we can see, when we take a look at the past, many methods are outdated, because people came up with new insights and teks.
This does not mean, that what he wrote actually benefits anything, but this has to be tested.
That's my opinion about new teks.
Mushrooms are quite a mysterious life form and we still know next to nothing about it. Time has shown, that logic often resulted in failure, when it comes to mushrooms. But sometimes it helps.
We should try to find out about it, shouldn't we?




:congrats::thumbup::cheer:


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OfflineCloneufc
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
    #12007078 - 02/11/10 04:50 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LeopardMan said:
Quote:

Fahkface said:
OK, I tried to fly over every post that was made so far and didn't find what I was looking for. If it was said before, I apologize for being such a lazy reader.

I guess by now, we all know, that dunking in the fridge and Cold Shocking are two different things.
While dunking in the fridge is indeed done in order to reduce the chance of bacterial growth, cold shocking is a longer period the mushroom is set to cold conditions.
Cold shocking has nothing to do with water, but just with temperatures.

What didn't came up in this thread yet (and that was what I was looking for), is that cold shocking is indeed a pinning trigger. Just not for Psilocybe cubensis or any other tropic species, but for mushrooms, that grow in moderate temperature zones.
Psilocybe azurescens or Psilocybe cyanescens are two examples that benefit from cold shocking.
As you probably know, these species develop during spring and summer and fruit in fall.
Preferable after a longer period of low temperatures between 40 and 50 degrees.
The mycelium of these species grows perfectly fine in the same temperatures the mycelium of any tropic species grows in. They won't fruit in these temperatures, though.
That is the reason why they benefit from being set to cold conditions over a period of about 10 days in order to give the mushroom an additional signal, that the right time "of the year" has come to develop fruit bodies.
The temperatures they mature in don't need to be that cold. But they obviously need a period of cold weather condition to fruit in the first place.

I hope that clears things up.

Once again: If this has been said before in this thread, I apologize for being a superfluous smart ass:stoned:




Thanks Fahkface. That's exactly what I said. I would be curious to know your opinion about the whole tek though. Constructive criticism would be much appreciated.:wink:





Thats not what you said. This tek is on Psilocybe Cubensis."Just not for Psilocybe cubensis or any other tropic species." I stand correct on all accounts.


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OfflineKysmoker
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
    #12007085 - 02/11/10 04:53 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I personally believe more testing should be done using this method to see if it has some real merit, and thats clearly what the OP intends. How consistent were your results using that method leopard?

Ofcourse, that wont tell us what we want to know, but im just curious. The only real way to test this method will be using an isolated strain and comparing it to the traditional pk tek.

Cant wait to see fahkfaces results :laugh:

And good job bringing in a new idea leopard.


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OfflineCloneufc
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Fahkface]
    #12007086 - 02/11/10 04:54 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fahkface said:
A mixture of drying and misting has shown to act as a major pinning trigger in the past. As long as the water that got lost is replaced properly it seems to be beneficial to let a substrate be on the dry side for short periods of time. You shouldn't overdo it though. You don't want to harm the mycelium.

However you do not want standing water on pins or primordia for a longer time. This will mostly result in aborts. Not only in my experience, but in the experience of many other people as well.
You're supposed to mist cakes directly as long as enough FAE is provided in order to give the water, that's not soaked off by the cake/verm, a chance to evaporate.
Standing water is always a good way to get contams. So be careful with this as well.

I yet have no idea, weather your tek (that's indeed written in a fine way:thumbup:) is a general improvement. It is, however a try. if it works for you, it might work for other people as well.

I will give it try, just to see what happens.
I'll use an isolate for best comparison.

Quote:

Its not an attack on LeopardMan. There are hundreds of pictures on here with people having the same results as LeopardMan without that pinning strategy. The same results using the regular PF tek. Having a good pinset is partly due to MS genetics. Do you think all of his cakes have that great of a pinset? Of course not. He's just taking pictures of his best ones. Im not knocking the flushes they are great but he's not the only one to get flushes like this. Myself and many others have gotten similar results using the regular PF tek. I hate to say the truth but many noobs come on here looking for the magic bullet. When the Oven tek or other bogus teks came out, it became the stable for noobs. I call some of the teks on here SNAKE OIL.

Someone else on here brought up a good point. The best way to test this theory is with several people using an isolate.

For those of you who dont understand what reinventing the wheel means, it means the PF tek is as good as it gets for cakes, just like a circle is as good as it gets for a wheel.




I know where you coming from. No doubt about it.
I too had results like this plenty of time.
But that's not really what it's about.
"New teks" should always be enjoyed with care.
His tek is a concept and as far as I have seen it, he never actually claimed it's "the new way to go".
In my opinion it's highly important, that new methods are tested. Sharing ideas in these forums is a good way to inspire people to test them and give their statement about it.
As we can see, when we take a look at the past, many methods are outdated, because people came up with new insights and teks.
This does not mean, that what he wrote actually benefits anything, but this has to be tested.
That's my opinion about new teks.
Mushrooms are quite a mysterious life form and we still know next to nothing about it. Time has shown, that logic often resulted in failure, when it comes to mushrooms. But sometimes it helps.
We should try to find out about it, shouldn't we?





I can agree with that. I gave constructive criticism and LeopardMan went ape shit because I was the only one who didnt shake his dick.


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OfflineLeopardMan
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Cloneufc]
    #12007087 - 02/11/10 04:54 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cloneufc said:
Its not an attack on LeopardMan. There are hundreds of pictures on here with people having the same results as LeopardMan without that pinning strategy. The same results using the regular PF tek. Having a good pinset is partly due to MS genetics. Do you think all of his cakes have that great of a pinset? Of course not.




You didn't read my previous threads. Here is a quote:

So far I experimented with 3 different MS projects (3 different strains). Never gone below 65 grams wet from first flush, often over 80 grams and sometimes over 100. What does this mean? Scientifically it means nothing. Howewer hitting the genetic jackpot three times in a row is very unlikely. But since it's not impossible I am going to take some more time to test this tek.

Quote:

He's just taking pictures of his best ones.




:picard:

Quote:

Im not knocking the flushes they are great but he's not the only one to get flushes like this. Myself and many others have gotten similar results using the regular PF tek. I hate to say the truth but many noobs come on here looking for the magic bullet. When the Oven tek or other bogus teks came out, it became the stable for noobs. I call some of the teks on here SNAKE OIL.

Someone else on here brought up a good point. The best way to test this theory is with several people using an isolate.




That's why I decided to post this tek.


--------------------
Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)


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Offlinemadi
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Cloneufc]
    #12007088 - 02/11/10 04:55 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Nice results, maybe I'll try this some day.


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