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 Fahkface
Over-Fiend
 
Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 4,821
Loc: In your Mind, Pedro! In y...
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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 Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek  [Re: LeopardMan]
#12007091 - 02/11/10 04:56 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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As we know, water is extremely important for the fruits to mature properly. They consist of 90% water, so it's no wonder.
What we also know, is that standing water in high temperatures is a good way to let bacteria grow.
We all know, that old water can smell extremely nasty. Think about why.
What you want is as much water as possible, while, at the same time as much FAE as possible. FAE is the main protection from contams in unsterile environments.
When enough FAE is provided you won't get contams. That's the way nature does it.
If you have standing water on your cakes and improper FAE, you'll be lucky not to get molds etc.
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 3,979
Loc: A tree house
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Cloneufc]
#12007107 - 02/11/10 05:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is what I wrote:"As RR pointed out many times cubes are tropical species and a cold shock will not be beneficial for their growth".
Listen, this conversation has no purpose anymore. I know what you think about this tek. Now please let other people chime in.
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Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 3,979
Loc: A tree house
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Fahkface]
#12007109 - 02/11/10 05:11 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fahkface said:
As we know, water is extremely important for the fruits to mature properly. They consist of 90% water, so it's no wonder.
What we also know, is that standing water in high temperatures is a good way to let bacteria grow.
We all know, that old water can smell extremely nasty. Think about why.
What you want is as much water as possible, while, at the same time as much FAE as possible. FAE is the main protection from contams in unsterile environments.
When enough FAE is provided you won't get contams. That's the way nature does it.
If you have standing water on your cakes and improper FAE, you'll be lucky not to get molds etc.
Yes, I see what you mean. That's why a FAE increase is absolutely essential. There is no question about it.
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Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)
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JonEveryman88
ಠ_ಠ
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,315
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
#12007395 - 02/11/10 09:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's fun watching other people argue.
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antimatt3r
operator
Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 538
Loc: the m00n
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: JonEveryman88]
#12007404 - 02/11/10 09:05 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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interesting! not sure i get it though
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Monty-Driver
Quick Learner
Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 162
Loc: Nova Prospekt
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: antimatt3r]
#12007569 - 02/11/10 10:11 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I may do this with a generation of my current EQs I got gonng and let you guys know. Wel see.
--------------------
 The Community.
"I'm on my way to Hell.."
-Jesse Lacey, lead singer of Brand New
"If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed" -Terrance McKenna
B!G  's TO : dancefloordale, ChaosToOrder, and stonsun
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Monty-Driver
Quick Learner
Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 162
Loc: Nova Prospekt
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: antimatt3r]
#12007570 - 02/11/10 10:11 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I may do this with a generation of my current EQs I got gonng and let you guys know. Wel see.
--------------------
The Community.
"I'm on my way to Hell.."
-Jesse Lacey, lead singer of Brand New
"If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed" -Terrance McKenna
B!G 's TO : dancefloordale, ChaosToOrder, and stonsun
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bardleyrichard
My Keyboard Got Damaged
Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 1,904
Loc: Ohio 
Last seen: 16 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: Monty-Driver]
#12007713 - 02/11/10 10:53 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LeopardMan said:
1-Contrary to a cold shock, a heat shock is not believed to be a pinning trigger but only to be the best way to get your cakes dried.
Right there you just said cold shock is believed to be a pinning trigger. That's probably what this whole stupid argument was about.
Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Cold shocking is considered a pinning trigger.
See you said it again.
As Cloneufc said, Cold shocking is not considered a pinning trigger.
You said it is, he said it isn't.
Quote:
Cloneufc said:I gave constructive criticism and LeopardMan went ape shit because I was the only one who didnt shake his dick.
Just letting you know...
Oh and maybe something to think about the "FAE is a better pinning trigger than RH" thing. What about invitro pins? Sometimes there is a cake full of mushrooms before it is even out of the jar, and there was very little FAE in there, but there was very high RH.
Also, some people have had great results from putting perforated wax paper on top of their sub, which increases RH. Although I'm not sure if this is only for colonization or pinning.
I'm not at all saying you're wrong, just giving you something to think about is all. I still think FAE is the best pinning trigger, but I don't really use cakes.
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I find myself yearning for clouds returning, all that the rain promises, and more...
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 3,979
Loc: A tree house
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: bardleyrichard]
#12007794 - 02/11/10 11:13 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bardleyrichard said:
Quote:
LeopardMan said:
1-Contrary to a cold shock, a heat shock is not believed to be a pinning trigger but only to be the best way to get your cakes dried.
Right there you just said cold shock is believed to be a pinning trigger. That's probably what this whole stupid argument was about.
Quote:
LeopardMan said:
Cold shocking is considered a pinning trigger.
See you said it again.
As Cloneufc said, Cold shocking is not considered a pinning trigger.
You said it is, he said it isn't.
Quote:
Cloneufc said:I gave constructive criticism and LeopardMan went ape shit because I was the only one who didnt shake his dick.
Just letting you know...
Oh and maybe something to think about the "FAE is a better pinning trigger than RH" thing. What about invitro pins? Sometimes there is a cake full of mushrooms before it is even out of the jar, and there was very little FAE in there, but there was very high RH.
Also, some people have had great results from putting perforated wax paper on top of their sub, which increases RH. Although I'm not sure if this is only for colonization or pinning.
I'm not at all saying you're wrong, just giving you something to think about is all. I still think FAE is the best pinning trigger, but I don't really use cakes.
Ok, this is the last time I am going to talk about cold shocking. Here is a quote:
"It's important to note that cubes fruit during the summer months. They don't wait for a cold front to shock them into fruiting. Thus, the whole deal with cold shocking was from early growers using it after reading how to cold shock shiitake, so they tried it on cubes. However, despite their efforts, they got fruits. They then attributed the fact that their trays fruited to the cold shock, and a myth was born".RR
A myth was born, he says. For probably a long time cold shocking was believed to be a pinning trigger for cubes. This post is only 10 months old. I never stated that cold shocking IS a pinning trigger for cubes.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9937707#9937707
Now about the FAE issue.
"High CO2 does NOT result in pins forming. It prevents them. Fresh air after full colonization is reached, is the number 1 pinning trigger".
RR
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7566321#7566321
When you can get 100 wet grams out of an invitro cake (1/2 pint), please PM me.
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Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)
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 prismism
whisker twister
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,160
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
#12007854 - 02/11/10 11:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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leopard, i'm curious why you care at all to maximize results on pf cakes.
most people who want better results go with better methods.
that would mean move on to grains and bulk.
sure this would be cool for newbs if you managed to get some isolates going and an official tek to offer..but in the end you're not going to get more than 20 grams or so at the most. whoopty fuckin doo.
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Poseur
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JonEveryman88
ಠ_ಠ
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,315
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: prismism]
#12007862 - 02/11/10 11:29 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
prismism said:
leopard, i'm curious why you care at all to maximize results on pf cakes.
most people who want better results go with better methods.
that would mean move on to grains and bulk.
sure this would be cool for newbs if you managed to get some isolates going and an official tek to offer..but in the end you're not going to get more than 20 grams or so at the most. whoopty fuckin doo.
Quit hatin. I know people who get as much as 10+ grams dry per cake per flush without any special treatment or using an isolate.
Leopardman, once again great tek Next time I do a batch of cakes, I'll give this a go.
Thanks again man.
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libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: bardleyrichard]
#12007864 - 02/11/10 11:29 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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From what I gathered from the tek, I don't think he ever said that he himself personally thought that cold-shocking was a pinning trigger, but rather that it was an old myth that cold-shocking was a pinning trigger. Saying that something is considered to be a pinning trigger is not the same thing as saying "I believe it to be a pinning trigger". Two very different statements. In any case, I think it's cleared up now and arguing about who said what seems pretty arbitrary and straying from the point.
Also, to those who are hating on cakes, some people enjoy doing them. If you don't, why are you reading a tek about them? Sure bulk can get more yield, but cakes are fun and easy. If you don't have anything constructive to add, you really should not be here.
Anyway, this tek is definitely some food for thought. I don't think it's really anything terribly revolutionary, since moisture and fae have always been considered pinning triggers, but the one thing that grabs my attention as something that should be played with is the heat shock. No one to my knowledge has ever consciously dried out their substrate before dunking in order to induce a better pin set. The results of an isolate trial using this technique would certainly be interesting.
One thing this has got me thinking of that might add to this, in the vein of adding sufficient moisture; I know people say that standing water is a bad idea, but as long as there is enough fae and the fruiting chamber is kept generally clean I seriously doubt that there would be a problem. (I've personally never seen mold growing on a fully colonized cake, have you?) Given this fact, what if one were to take some small circular trays a bit larger than the circumference of a cake that could contain a small pool of water for each cake that you would periodically refill once empty? This would enable the cake to suck up as much moisture as it needs, facilitating the full potential of pinning for each cake. Would this help matters at all? I would think it would be better than just pooling water on top of the cake.
Nice write up leopardman, thanks so much for sharing!
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 3,979
Loc: A tree house
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: prismism]
#12007909 - 02/11/10 11:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
prismism said:
leopard, i'm curious why you care at all to maximize results on pf cakes.
most people who want better results go with better methods.
that would mean move on to grains and bulk.
sure this would be cool for newbs if you managed to get some isolates going and an official tek to offer..but in the end you're not going to get more than 20 grams or so at the most. whoopty fuckin doo.
Hi prism. It's not about yields. I've got some trays going on right now and I have lots of grains jars colonizing. Actually I don't want to get more things but more knowledge. 
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Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 3,979
Loc: A tree house
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: JonEveryman88]
#12007928 - 02/11/10 11:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JonEveryman88 said:
Quote:
prismism said:
leopard, i'm curious why you care at all to maximize results on pf cakes.
most people who want better results go with better methods.
that would mean move on to grains and bulk.
sure this would be cool for newbs if you managed to get some isolates going and an official tek to offer..but in the end you're not going to get more than 20 grams or so at the most. whoopty fuckin doo.
Quit hatin. I know people who get as much as 10+ grams dry per cake per flush without any special treatment or using an isolate.
Leopardman, once again great tek Next time I do a batch of cakes, I'll give this a go.
Thanks again man.
Thanks Jon. Of course there are people who get 10 grams dry per cake per flush. Look at Shea25 for instance.
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Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 3,979
Loc: A tree house
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: libertaire]
#12007952 - 02/11/10 11:48 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
libertaire said:
From what I gathered from the tek, I don't think he ever said that he himself personally thought that cold-shocking was a pinning trigger, but rather that it was an old myth that cold-shocking was a pinning trigger. Saying that something is considered to be a pinning trigger is not the same thing as saying "I believe it to be a pinning trigger". Two very different statements.
Thank God! 
Quote:
In any case, I think it's cleared up now and arguing about who said what seems pretty arbitrary and straying from the point.
Also, to those who are hating on cakes, some people enjoy doing them. If you don't, why are you reading a tek about them? Sure bulk can get more yield, but cakes are fun and easy. If you don't have anything constructive to add, you really should not be here.
Anyway, this tek is definitely some food for thought. I don't think it's really anything terribly revolutionary, since moisture and fae have always been considered pinning triggers, but the one thing that grabs my attention as something that should be played with is the heat shock. No one to my knowledge has ever consciously dried out their substrate before dunking in order to induce a better pin set. The results of an isolate trial using this technique would certainly be interesting.
One thing this has got me thinking of that might add to this, in the vein of adding sufficient moisture; I know people say that standing water is a bad idea, but as long as there is enough fae and the fruiting chamber is kept generally clean I seriously doubt that there would be a problem. (I've personally never seen mold growing on a fully colonized cake, have you?) Given this fact, what if one were to take some small circular trays a bit larger than the circumference of a cake that could contain a small pool of water for each cake that you would periodically refill once empty? This would enable the cake to suck up as much moisture as it needs, facilitating the full potential of pinning for each cake. Would this help matters at all?
This could be a very good alternative. However I've never experienced any problem with pooling water on top of the cake. Many thanks for your keen analysis.
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Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)
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bardleyrichard
My Keyboard Got Damaged
Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 1,904
Loc: Ohio
Last seen: 16 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
#12008115 - 02/11/10 12:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright, I don't know if you guys just don't get what I'm saying or you're trolling...
I didn't say he said he thinks cold shocking is a pinning trigger.
What I'm saying is that he said it is considered a pining trigger.
All I'm trying to say is that cold shocking used to be considered a pinning trigger, not anymore.
I'm not arguing with anything in his "tek".
Get it?
Quote:
LeopardMan said:When you can get 100 wet grams out of an invitro cake (1/2 pint), please PM me.
Not the point.
You don't get it.
This was the worst excuse for an argument I have ever been a part of on this site. I hope it's a language barrier or something...
I'm done with this, and have fun with your tek
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I find myself yearning for clouds returning, all that the rain promises, and more...
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libertaire
liberator
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: bardleyrichard]
#12008131 - 02/11/10 12:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bardleyrichard said:
Alright, I don't know if you guys just don't get what I'm saying or you're trolling...
I didn't say he said he thinks cold shocking is a pinning trigger.
What I'm saying is that he said it is considered a pining trigger.
All I'm trying to say is that cold shocking used to be considered a pinning trigger, not anymore.
I'm not arguing with anything in his "tek".
Get it?
Quote:
LeopardMan said:When you can get 100 wet grams out of an invitro cake (1/2 pint), please PM me.
Not the point.
You don't get it.
This was the worst excuse for an argument I have ever been a part of on this site. I hope it's a language barrier or something...
I'm done with this, and have fun with your tek
Why do you continue to argue such a completely irrelevant point? It was something he mentioned in passing and had noting to do with the central argument of his tek. Can we just drop it and continue with things that are relevant?
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing
Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 3,979
Loc: A tree house
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: bardleyrichard]
#12008179 - 02/11/10 12:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bardleyrichard said:
This was the worst excuse for an argument I have ever been a part of on this site.
 I didn't mean to offend you, really. Anyway I don't like you and you don't like me. It's not a tragedy man. Peace.
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Either you care, or you don't (Stanley Kubrick)
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gornyhuy
A Myth Intrepidly Met
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 2,422
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: libertaire]
#12008208 - 02/11/10 12:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Worst.
Threadjack.
Ever.
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  Bulk Grow Substrate Calculator Spreadsheet - get it HERE
*Downloaded over 2,000 times!* - As discussed in this thread.
Also try the CHANGA CALCULATOR
Strangers passing in the street
By chance two separate glances meet
And I am you and what I see is me.
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KillaFoRilla
Heretic
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 1,519
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: The heat shock. A new version of the glorious PF tek [Re: LeopardMan]
#12008407 - 02/11/10 01:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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This tek was a very interesting read. I can't wait to see fahk's results.
The only problem is the the arguing! I feel like a tramatiized child cause mommy and daddy won't stop fighting. 
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