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On April 7th the Jefferson County DA dismissed the charges against Jon.
We are thankful to who contributed to his defense fund. Because they dismissed the charges,
Jon is refunding the money to everyone who made a donation.
While it is great news that they are dismissing the charges, they are not returning any of his
property. They consider that to be evidence. And it looks like he is still faced with the un-
constitutional Kansas Drug Tax. Kansas somehow thinks it can tax someone for selling illegal
drugs when they haven't even been charged with selling illegal drugs. We will be fighting that in
court. Read about this law here: http://www.ksrevenue.org/faqs-abcdrugtax.htm
Original Post:
As veggie firstreported in our Shroomery News Service forum yesterday, the Bouncing Bear Botanicals
warehouse was raided by local authorities on Thursday, who have confiscated $700,000 of assets from
the proprietor Mr. Jonathan Sloan, and are charging him with eight felonies (the majority of which are for
manufacturing, cultivating or distributing a controlled substance).
Due to this unfortunate event, his banner advertisement has been pulled from our website and I would advise anyone who may have placed an order with BBB recently, especially persons who reside in
the state of Kansas where this legal action is taking place, to be mindful of the situation and to
take any necessary precautions to avoid being harassed yourself!
Let us hope for thebest, as the outcome of this prosecution could set an ominous precedent
for several vendors who make their business in supplying sacred plants and entheogens.
Those who wish to contribute toward the defense's legal case, may send a
check or money order made out to the Jon Sloan Defense Fund, and mail to:
Jon Sloan Defense Fund
P.O. Box 944
St. Charles, MO 63302
2/8/2010: BBB is still in business, without the products that were seized of course (now listed as
out of stock on their website).
Apparently, Mr. Sloan is out on bond at the present time, but restricted from speaking on sensitive
matters and has not been seen in his place of business or associating with any of the people
working there. There is a private legal firm representing him with a defense fund in place, however
I do not yet have any detailed information on where money can reliably be sent for his aid. If and
when I receive such information, or any related information that is deemed appropriate to publicly dispense, I will make it available here.
As you know already, the Feds (FDA, Kansas Bureau of Investigation and local law enforcement--24 officers in all), raided the Bouncing Bear warehouse. With guns drawn, they burst in and proceeded to handcuff everyone in the building including 65- year-old, white-haired grandmas and grandpas and young, single mothers.
They then proceeded to ransack the entire building. You can see pictures of their work here:
http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/jonimages/what_the_feds_did_to_jon.htm
By 10:30 AM, Jon Sloan, the 29-year-old owner was being booked at the county jail. Bond was set at $906,000.00. Keep that amount in mind.
By the end of the day they had confiscated $700,000 worth of products and property, and they had seized funds and bank accounts. They even seized Jon's six-year-old son's savings account. They left Jon with NEGATIVE $55,000 in the bank, making it impossible for him to post bond or hire a lawyer. They seized all legal papers, receipts, bills, bank account records – everything.
I was able to find a lawyer who was able to reduce the bond to $150,000, and Jon was finally released late the following day. During the time in jail he was denied any visitors. The condition of his release is that he is not allowed to go to the office or talk to employees, associates or customers. Thus, he has effectively been denied the ability to work and run his lawful business and generate income in order to be able to mount a defense.
Here are the bogus charges:
The charges against Sloan
Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine (DMT)
Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Mescaline
Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide
Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Mescaline
Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine; Chacruna; Illinois Bundleflower; Epena; Cebil Seeds.
Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Bufotenine, Epena, Chaliponga, Cebil Seeds, Colorado River Toads.
Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide, Morning Glory Seeds, Rivea Corymbosa.
Unlawful possession of certain drug precursors and drug paraphernalia: Plastic jugs and filters used or intended for unlawful use to manufacture, cultivate, plant propagate, harvest, test, analyze or distribute a controlled substance.
We don't even know what some of those substances are, much less how to extract them from some plant.
Please note the last of the bogus charges: “Unlawful possession of certain drug precursors and drug paraphernalia: Plastic jugs and filters...” Perhaps the Feds forgot that Bouncing Bear is a botanical store. We grow plants. We water them and fertilize them. We use plastic jugs just like every botanical store in the world and just like every lawn and garden shop. Did they really expect NOT to find plastic jugs?
One of the feds asked me about the toads: “What do you do with those?” “What do you mean? We sell them.” “What do they do with them?” “What do you mean? They keep them. They are an exotic wild toad that will live for 15 years. They can eat a small rat.” “Why do they want them?” “Why do people want a piranha or exotic fish or a snake? All kinds of reasons. They are not illegal.”
“Do they lick them?” “Lick them? Are you serious? I suppose they could lick them, but they'd be morons – they'll get salmonella.” “Where do you get them?” “We buy them from a pet store. An exotic pet store that also sells boa constrictors, iguanas, alligators and other reptilians. They are not illegal to buy, own or sell.”
From time to time we have also sold iguanas and snakes. Why would we have 20 toads that sell very very slowly, are a hassle to keep and feed, and are valued at around $2000 and jeopardize a million dollar legitimate business? What kind of fools would we be? What kind of fools are they?
Every single thing that they seized is legal to own, to buy and to sell. We know they will say, “But people can use these things for illegal purposes.” And the answer is: “Well Duh! People can use anything for illegal purposes. People can buy guns and knives at Wal-mart and use them for illegal purposes. They can buy plastic jugs from the dollar store and use them for illegal purposes. People can buy LEGAL drugs at the pharmacy and use them for illegal purposes. Why don't they shut down Wal-mart, your local grocery store, your pharmacy, and every store that sells anything?
Every single one of the charges is bogus. They have thrown the book at Jon because they don't like Bouncing Bear Botanical and want to shut it down. They have violated Jon’s civil rights in order to make an example that will discourage others from engaging in this type of legal business.
They have posted a $906,000 DRUG TAX on Jon's head. Remember that number?
What is the drug tax? All illegal drug dealers in Kansas are required to buy “Drug Stamps.” They then must put the stamp on the bag of marijuana or cocaine to show they have paid the tax on that illegal drug. This is the way the government can seize private property in the event of a drug bust. "You haven't paid your drug tax? Cool! We get to take all your stuff!"
Of course - they get to seize the stuff even before they you are convicted. (And in most cases keep it even if you are found not guilty.)
Innocent until proven guilty? Hardly.
This is how they can effectively keep someone from mounting a defense. They seize all of someone's assets so that person can't hire a lawyer, post bond, and must us an underpaid court-appointed attorney and sit in jail for the year that it takes to get to trial. Most of the time the accused will accept a plea bargain. Faced with 75 years in jail if guilty? They take the plea for 10 years. The DEA gets a gold star. The war on drugs gets another feather in its cap and the DA gets re-elected. Your tax dollars at work.
Just be ACCUSED of selling drugs and they can fine you with a drug tax. They just did this in Jon's case. Jon sold no illegal drugs. Doesn’t matter. They just have to accuse him, slap him with nearly a million dollar tax, seize all of his assets, put him out of business--and they look like gods for “saving our children.”
The drug tax is a serious violation of civil rights and the right to not self-incriminate. A good civil rights lawyer should be able to fight any drug tax all the way to the supreme court. And... mark my words: WE WILL FIGHT THIS ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT. THEY WILL NOT WIN THIS BOGUS WAR.
We need your help to win this thing. Remember, if they do win, we all lose. We can't let them take our civil rights. I'll post more when I can on ways you can help including contributing to Jon's defense fund. Remember – they seized all of his assets. We need to find ways to pull some money together to help him fight this thing.
--------------------
--------------------
┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
Hopefully he will have some legal chance of avoiding all the charges. This is outrageous.
I'd like to add:
Quote: lukeboots said: This truly sucks. Let it be a lesson to everyone that high risk exposure of "legal highs" on places like youtube will lead to sensationalism, prohibition, and public outcry.
The DEA/FDA/Federal government did not just "find out" about these drugs, they are responding to idiocy. It's a never-ending cycle of stupidity, and it seriously makes me facepalm. I can not stand this kind of thing. We need to pick our battles. BBB was an irresponsible company in the first place. Selling TOADS? Seriously? To who? To only experienced animal handlers? Yeah right. Kids could buy live animals and fuck with them to get a high. Not only that, they were selling rotting cactus. Blatantly advertising getting high and the "shamanistic" use of the plants they were selling. Come on people.
That is neurosoup. The first video: "Which entheogen to start tripping with."
The second video: "Customer reviews of legal entheogen suppliers."
She talked about BBB all the time and had their banners all over her (pay-for-access) site.
This woman is a KNOWN NARC. Her and her husband snitched on the man who supplied LSD to the country through most of the 1990s. And now she places videos like that on youtube. "For the pychedelic community." The public does not want to hear about their children getting high. What if a 13 year old's parents saw that video in their browser cache? CALL THE POLICE. For the love of god, this should be common sense. Along with not selling shoddy, rotten products, and live animals to god-knows-who.
ARGH.
RECKLESSNESS.
The same goes for all of you posting pictures in public forums of K / posting pictures in public forums of yourself eating drugs on a site that is designed to promote AWARENESS; not bragging rights.
Not to mention bunk ayahuasca ingredients and TOADS for christ's sake
-------------------- I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body
Has anyone NOT set their PM up with encryption yet?
Prob not a bad idea.
I suppose we need to start using more obscure terminology for our entheogenic friends, and leaving out the subject tags when it comes to identifying substances........ such as the bizzle brought up awhile back.
Hopefully there is at least one judge left that doesnt believing in an activist court..... last thing we need is another LAW established for all of eternity because of one court case.
I noticed a man exhaling smoke, when faced away from the camera...
Yes, I did not agree with him selling synthetic compounds as "all natural", however disagree with the governments tactics and do not believe possessing plants is manufacturing an illegal substance.
arrgh, the selfish bastards ruined it for us all. I hope they're happy with the money they made bring all this to the attention of the authorities. Is this really where the money for the war on drugs needs to be spent?
-------------------- "Let's get together and feel alright"
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that Neurosoup bitch is almost directly responsible for this... or at least is a BIG part of the reason it happened.
Probably helped raise a good bit of awareness, through videos, which made the whole scene easier to digest for Feds.
Once they saw how easily dumb you tube hippies could get high off the internet they were inclined to take action.
It's all so depressing. This guy was a hero to stand up and work as he did in the heart of what is (from my perspective north of 49) a police state (not unlike here; e.g. current olmpic security, Marc Emery, etc). But guys like Sloan give me hope, leading by example, allowing others to take heart because he showed it was possible. This bust is the latest chapter in the witch-hunt that dates back to the burning of the druids in their sacred oak forest, by roman empire soldiers. And the so-called "inquisition" which tortured herbalist, and the persecution of anyone, to this day, who seeks empowerment and wisdom through an interaction with the spirit and collective consciousness of nature and the cosmos. Sloan is an entrepreneur who allowed us to showed the way to the doors of perception.
People who call him "wreckless" are as brainwashed as the cops who busted him. People who say he sold bunk product probably don't know the secrets of brewing ayahuasca. I always get an elder shaman to brew mine, and actually, BBB's products were fine.
And about selling toads to the wrong people, as lukeboots also ranted about: okay Einstein, is it also wrong to sell knives because people might use them as weapons? No. Just because things can be misused is not an argument for making them illegal, especially when the potential good they can do is without measure.
I will close this message of lamentation for a persecuted hero with this quotation, from Terrence McKenna's essay "Plan, Plant, Planet" in which he points out that the consciousness reached through entheogens is what we need to guide this ailing planet and our society towards a better future.
"The process begins by declaring legitimate what we have denied for so long. Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that Neurosoup bitch is almost directly responsible for this... or at least is a BIG part of the reason it happened.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
-------------------- I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body
Quote: Puma said: It's all so depressing. This guy was a hero to stand up and work as he did in the heart of what is (from my perspective north of 49) a police state (not unlike here; e.g. current olmpic security, Marc Emery, etc). But guys like Sloan give me hope, leading by example, allowing others to take heart because he showed it was possible. This bust is the latest chapter in the witch-hunt that dates back to the burning of the druids in their sacred oak forest, by roman empire soldiers. And the so-called "inquisition" which tortured herbalist, and the persecution of anyone, to this day, who seeks empowerment and wisdom through an interaction with the spirit and collective consciousness of nature and the cosmos. Sloan is an entrepreneur who allowed us to showed the way to the doors of perception.
People who call him "wreckless" are as brainwashed as the cops who busted him. People who say he sold bunk product probably don't know the secrets of brewing ayahuasca. I always get an elder shaman to brew mine, and actually, BBB's products were fine.
And about selling toads to the wrong people, as lukeboots also ranted about: okay Einstein, is it also wrong to sell knives because people might use them as weapons? No. Just because things can be misused is not an argument for making them illegal, especially when the potential good they can do is without measure.
I will close this message of lamentation for a persecuted hero with this quotation, from Terrence McKenna's essay "Plan, Plant, Planet" in which he points out that the consciousness reached through entheogens is what we need to guide this ailing planet and our society towards a better future.
"The process begins by declaring legitimate what we have denied for so long. Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."
Quote: Cactusdan said: It will certainly be interesting to see how this case ends up.
For sure.
I don't understand how you can arrest someone for something that isn't illegal? What is next, is the DEA going to be raiding Home Depots and Lowes for selling San Pedro in their garden section?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
My friend almost got MHRB recently. That is crazy.
Not to thread jack-please pm me if you want, but whats with this Neurosoup character? To say someone on here had a effect on this is bold statement. Not saying they didnt...but you know what I mean.
-------------------- "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience." -Anonymous
What i don't understand is how the police are so certain the products BBB were selling were for the purpose of making and selling drugs when it has this disclaimer on the site? If this guy gets sentenced it will be out of pure corruption.
Quote: Disclaimer
All of the Ethnobotanicals available from this site are sold for research, education and propagation purposes only. None of the Ethnobotanicals sold are for human consumption. Some of the Ethnobotanicals available are poisonous. The Herbals available have not been evaluated by the FDA. Research all Herbals before using. Use at your own risk.
Customers must be over 18 years of age to purchase anything from this site.
Bouncing Bear, anyone and anything related to Bouncing Bear and this site can not be held accountable for any of your actions or choices.
CUSTOMERS WHO VIOLATE THE USER AGREEMENT WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULL EXTENT THE LAW ALLOWS By placing an order, you are agreeing to the disclaimer
Quote: Puma said: I will close this message of lamentation for a persecuted hero with this quotation, from Terrence McKenna's essay "Plan, Plant, Planet" in which he points out that the consciousness reached through entheogens is what we need to guide this ailing planet and our society towards a better future.
"The process begins by declaring legitimate what we have denied for so long. Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."
It's sad that they waste time and taxpayer money doing something like this. At the same time they were raiding this legit company in Kansas...there were people all over Kansas & the rest of the country cooking & using Meth, raping & killing others, stealing from others, drinking too much alcohol and getting behind the wheel of a car, popping too many prescription pain pills, etc etc etc...
God forbid someone uses some plants in the privacy & comfort of their own home!!!
There are way too many brainwashed people in this world. There always will be.
that's the sad truth of it -- while they were shutting down this mystical herbarium, there were meth labs, car thieves, corrupt politicians, etc, going full swing. It's almost as if the enforcers want to let that stuff flourish while cracking down on promoters of a different paradigm, in order to keep themselves in business. Tragic.
" It's almost as if the enforcers want to let that stuff flourish while cracking down on promoters of a different paradigm, in order to keep themselves in business. Tragic. "
(this isn't directed at you, I just thought I'd post this for everybody)
i've been having a bad feeling about BBB for a long time
-------------------- TheMushroomJesus said: "Doesnt that actually make the most sense? These are intelligent beings that are capable of creating anything, including what you call 'science'. And the suicide cults are a sacrifice to these intelligent beings."
"If any of you knew about Applewhite you would know that he represented JESUS..as we all do. He believed he and all of us were jesus to the point he would kill himself to get the message out...while your here..typing away pointless thoughts on a website pretending to make a difference, when in reality, you will never come close to making as much of a difference as even Applewhite."
Quote: Cognitive_Shift said: What i don't understand is how the police are so certain the products BBB were selling were for the purpose of making and selling drugs when it has this disclaimer on the site? If this guy gets sentenced it will be out of pure corruption.
Quote: Disclaimer
All of the Ethnobotanicals available from this site are sold for research, education and propagation purposes only. None of the Ethnobotanicals sold are for human consumption. Some of the Ethnobotanicals available are poisonous. The Herbals available have not been evaluated by the FDA. Research all Herbals before using. Use at your own risk.
Customers must be over 18 years of age to purchase anything from this site.
Bouncing Bear, anyone and anything related to Bouncing Bear and this site can not be held accountable for any of your actions or choices.
CUSTOMERS WHO VIOLATE THE USER AGREEMENT WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULL EXTENT THE LAW ALLOWS By placing an order, you are agreeing to the disclaimer
In addition to having the best disclaimer you've ever seen, customers were required to call in and verbally state the terms of sale listed further down the page and this was recorded on tape. Despite that, the owner was arrested and sentenced to some ridiculous amount of jail.
Am I outraged? Yes. Surprised? Absolutely not.\
It was the FDA in that case as well as this one. Aren't we all glad they're here to keep us safe?
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that Neurosoup bitch is almost directly responsible for this... or at least is a BIG part of the reason it happened.
Probably helped raise a good bit of awareness, through videos, which made the whole scene easier to digest for Feds.
Once they saw how easily dumb you tube hippies could get high off the internet they were inclined to take action.
Quote: Shad0w said: Has anyone NOT set their PM up with encryption yet?
Prob not a bad idea.
I suppose we need to start using more obscure terminology for our entheogenic friends, and leaving out the subject tags when it comes to identifying substances........ such as the bizzle brought up awhile back.
Hopefully there is at least one judge left that doesnt believing in an activist court..... last thing we need is another LAW established for all of eternity because of one court case.
lol everybody thought I was being super paranoid and , and had a stick up my ass
of course I know the shroomery isn't going to be the main cause, and even us being discreet here can only help so much...
the REAL problem is not only youtube videos, but mainly vendors themselves who try to popularize their product as much as possible
the reason salvia became illegal STARTED with internet sites proclaiming an awesome new susbtance that provides astral projection type experiences...
then that made it the hot new fad...
and then vendors, particularly headshops trying to cash in
make it common word of mouth, and available to any wreckless kid who doesn't research or respect what these things are
when I started hearing that some headshops are carrying ayahuasca analogues and cacti...
baaaaaaaad news, bad idea
I honestly wish I could go on some sort of campaign getting headshops to remove these products, as I feel like that is far more cause for concern than any amount of popularizing than shroomery threads can cause
I am struggling for the right words here... I did have good reason to be concerned about the trickling effect of advertising these plants to those who aren't seeking it on their own (i mean I have no problem with erowid, and if you are interested enough you can discover all sorts of plants and what they do through research, I don't think we need to tell every drug-seeker in earshot what you can get high off of)
and I do feel like youtube videos contribute GREATLY to this problem
but more than anything it is vendors who hold the responsibility. Vendors trying to capitalize off of high-seekers, and that especially means headshops
because headshop highs appeal to the most loud-mouthed and irresponsible of high-seekers, and that will end up with stuff getting found by concerned parents and police, and that's all it takes
notice how BBB's biggest mistake was selling K2... very headshop-esque, if you catch my drift (i just woke up, having trouble forming good sentences)
so perhaps if you know of a local headshop who sells entheogens, try pleading with them to stop, though I doubt they will listen and hopefully any remaining online vendors will become a lot more discreet, and stop trying to increase their market through the appeal of highs
-------------------- TheMushroomJesus said: "Doesnt that actually make the most sense? These are intelligent beings that are capable of creating anything, including what you call 'science'. And the suicide cults are a sacrifice to these intelligent beings."
"If any of you knew about Applewhite you would know that he represented JESUS..as we all do. He believed he and all of us were jesus to the point he would kill himself to get the message out...while your here..typing away pointless thoughts on a website pretending to make a difference, when in reality, you will never come close to making as much of a difference as even Applewhite."
Wow. I remember attempts to take Morning Glory seeds out of everyone's hands because a relative handful of kids discovered LSA can let you see a sky full of rotating silver kaleidoscopic visions. My first trip on 200 Heavenly Blue as a matter of fact. This kind of paranoia is something that I have had to smile along with in my position as substance abuse specialist for over 20 years. The WASP Republican remnant in Miami-Dade County, smoking their ciggies and cigars, and guzzling their liver-killing, brain-pickling hard liquor, while applauding the Oxy-head Rush Limbaugh and his hatred, while psychedelics get those kind of people frothing mad. Meanwhile, they're building a big gambling casino (Gulfstream Park) less than 5 miles from my hose, less than a mile from the school where I work. Gambling won't draw sociopathic gamblers, dealers and hookers will it? No, of course not. Don't forget scam artists, pick pockets and violent crime. But this is OK. Who needs the word 'vice' anymore when it's mainstream and main street? But, a handful of 'Neos' who want to awaken from 'The Matix' of vice with some cactus-produced Mescaline? Stomp them into prisons where they'll no doubt meet with fates worse than death. For your perusal, enter the Twilight Zone of values: http://cmif.pictco.org/
Quote: makaveli8x8 said: I kinda feel bad for BB in a way, but they brought it on themselves. They were greedy and unresponsible.
As such, they don't deserve any help from us, infact they have made things worse for alot of people. This was borderline neruosoup type shit.
Yeah, you're right, they deserve to go to jail for about 30 years after a trial they can't afford because everything they own has been confiscated. What a bunch of assholes!
And who cares about reinforcing a terrible precedent and the rise of unchecked FDA powers!
Quote: makaveli8x8 said: I kinda feel bad for BB in a way, but they brought it on themselves. They were greedy and unresponsible.
As such, they don't deserve any help from us, infact they have made things worse for alot of people. This was borderline neruosoup type shit.
neurosoup was in kootz with bbb. they all brought it upon themselves, i warned him personally.
shit i forgot about that, it seems even more sketchy now...fuck them i hope nobody sends them a dime! any money you send will prolly just end up in the dea's pockets anyway...maybe thats why all there products were so bunk the dea extracted all the goods out of them to make them safer lol and the cactus was rotten because neurosoup just got done useing them
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that Neurosoup bitch is almost directly responsible for this... or at least is a BIG part of the reason it happened.
Probably helped raise a good bit of awareness, through videos, which made the whole scene easier to digest for Feds.
Once they saw how easily dumb you tube hippies could get high off the internet they were inclined to take action.
i said it 2 days ago.
-------------------- <
I have logged in this once so that I can set the "last seen" feature up. let the faggots flow forth into OTD and have it. Its funny how they all grew nuts after I left. I'm not here, I'm not reading, but I urge you all to keep melting down over me. I know, I hurt alot of people, and they deserved it. epic win for me, epic fail for you.
ythan, you rock dude. i feel that my time at the shroomery was very positive and enjoyable, but this site is no longer for me. im not mad or upset or disappointed, i just want no part in a pg rated faggot festival.
<
slander really aint necessary. The guy could have been crooked as fuck for all I know but The real fact is he helped many even if it was just to help him self or not. This is a sad day and I can kick a few bucks when the fund gets up and going.
-------------------- I hurt myself today to see if I still feel
I focuse on the pain
The only thing that's real
“These are remedies. These are items used in religious ceremonies that are legal, that can be put to illegal purposes,” This is an interesting statement by Sloan's lawyer. If the charges stick, I think this could be a very hard but important part of his strategy in winning the case. It could be beneficial to everyone if it was resolved in Sloan's favor.
-------------------- "Always aim at complete harmony of thought and word and deed. Always aim at purifying your thoughts and everything will be well." - Mahatma Gandhi
I don't understand how you can arrest someone for something that isn't illegal?
I am not convinced that mescaline and DMT are currently legal.
Quote: What i don't understand is how the police are so certain the products BBB were selling were for the purpose of making and selling drugs when it has this disclaimer on the site? If this guy gets sentenced it will be out of pure corruption.
I don't see what difference the disclaimer makes. Drugs are still illegal even if you plan to use them as decoration.
Quote: I don't understand how they can make a plant or a toad illegal. What..?
Congress can ban whatever they want due to the commerce clause.
People are illegal too because they are containers of DMT. If you weigh over a few grams you would be looking at a distribution of DMT charge because the weight of the container is added to the weight of the drug.
I think that's absolute bullshit that the container is added to the charge. I can understand charging someone for the amount of substance, but that is just ridiculous abuse of the terms of law. What if I just kept it in the ashtray of my car, would I, could I be charged for 3000 lbs, .5 grams of DMT?
Quote: SweetZombieJesus said: I think that's absolute bullshit that the container is added to the charge. I can understand charging someone for the amount of substance, but that is just ridiculous abuse of the terms of law. What if I just kept it in the ashtray of my car, would I, could I be charged for 3000 lbs, .5 grams of DMT?
This may be setback on the road to our ultimate goal. (legalization of soft drugs for informed adults) But we have to realise that the DEA is a fish swimming upstream. If they bust more people prices go up. The cash incentive makes more people start cultivating. We may lose one a front occasionally, but societal change is always going to follow us. Look at the 50's they had propaganda ad's saying that pot would turn you into a murderous sex maniac, no joke. But hell, half the cops nowadays have toked. Most of them don't give a shit unless you are a violent criminal, big time dealer, or putting others in danger with your intoxication. (like driving down the highway stoned) If your just sitting on your couch smoking a joint and a cop is walking his dog and sees you, he probably isn't going to do shit.
I think sale of salvia should be prohibited to minors (even though it probably scares quite a few virgin psychedelic users away from drugs because of its intensity). Why? Because it sets a precedent. Then some stuck up their ass conservative cant make the "Its for the children!" argument.
The DEA may be able to control LSD or MDMA, or even meth if they just banned psuedoephedrine(they really should, that is the only good solution to the meth problem) They can control those because they require a chemist in a lab to make the end result or the ingredients. But these organisms have been here for millions of years and will be here for millions of years after we are all gone. You cant fight nature, trying to control spread of a plant or fungus is like trying to douse a fire with gasoline. Once that dragon gets out of tropical forests and into the drug scene, you cant put it back into pandora's box.
Even society supports us. 52% of Americans believe we should legalise cannabis, up from just 30 percent in the early 70's. First it is going to be pot, then cactus and shrooms, lsd will follow. It might not be this year, or even this decade, but we will see the day when there is no need for us to hide. We may have lost this one, But for every grower you take down, for every supplier you bust, two more will take his place.
Quote: I think that's absolute bullshit that the container is added to the charge.
I agree, however the law clearly states that they should charge you with the full weight of the container.
If you put a gram of coke into an olympic sized swimming pool, you now have 5,489,440 pounds of cocaine according to the law.
thanks, i needed a new sig quote.
-------------------- <
I have logged in this once so that I can set the "last seen" feature up. let the faggots flow forth into OTD and have it. Its funny how they all grew nuts after I left. I'm not here, I'm not reading, but I urge you all to keep melting down over me. I know, I hurt alot of people, and they deserved it. epic win for me, epic fail for you.
ythan, you rock dude. i feel that my time at the shroomery was very positive and enjoyable, but this site is no longer for me. im not mad or upset or disappointed, i just want no part in a pg rated faggot festival.
<
If your not afraid to market "questionable" materials don't sell them period. I feel so bad for this kind of tragedy, but on the other hand I've been hearing about his web site for years, it pops up on all the search engines, its very popular, just the thing the dea likes to prosecute. Mescaline is a schedule 1 substance bottom line. to sell legal cacti is one thing but to sell multiple botanics that all have psychoactive properties is another.
I don't disagree with these logic's but I'm realistic, I mean common. I see a trend happening where people are getting smart and making multiple sites and selling a variety of things on them. but unfortunately you wouldn't be able to sponsor sites like the shroomery with any one site.
I for one am ready to make a serious stand against this and and want to rise up and face the government, they can't charge us all for possessing something like san pedro, where I live there are 20 foot high (no joke I measured them) sections growing. Are those illegal?
But defending him is fruitless because he possesses more entheogens than just a cutting of san pedro.
True, BBB and all the ebay vendors that sold HBWR, kanna, mimosa hostillis, san pedro, and other shit like that were on a "hint hint wink wink" basis with their customers, I just think that BBB got a bit to big and close to the line of marketing their stuff as psychoactive. I just hope places like shaman shop are not going to be next, I would die if there was a repeat of operation "webtryp".
As to the other subject, I think society is following us, maybe 20 or 30 years behind schedule, but it is happening. 72% of the graduating class of I think 1978 (I forgot the exact year) admitted to smoking marijuana at least once. They all know that it isn't the devils weed they were told it was, the generations after them know it. DARE doesn't work. There are HIGHER rates of soft drug abuse among graduates of the program. Why, because when their friends smoked and they found out nothing bad happened to them they got real skeptical real quick. The majority of Americans want pot legalized, and that margin is only growing. All we are waiting for is the political initiative to do it. It is all going to happen in time, and there is nothing the hard liners can do to stop it, because the more they dump cash and time into the drug war the more apparent it becomes to joe blow that the bad guys are the feds, they are just speeding it up.
for anyone who didn't see this, I will just copy it here, for what it's worth
Quote: the bizzle said:
Quote: Deity208 said:
How the fuck is it ILLEGAL to sell LEGAL plants/herbs? You can buy most of this shit at home depot.
I'm sorry, but BBB was asking for it by selling headshop items that appeal to high-seekers (K2 is obviously not just some plant)
home depot sells plants, BBB obviously is trying to appeal to high-seekers, by selling items specifically to get you high
not to mention they have forums with people asking about extractions
i've seen vendors say "this cactus contains mescaline and provides an experience similar to peyote"
I don't know if BBB was THAT blatant about it, but I always got a very commercial and greedy vibe from them. I am not in the least bit surprised, and I think they brought it on themselves
headshops trying to cash in on the legal high craze will be THE end of it, so if you know of any headshops selling cacti and ayahuasca analogues, I would ask you to plead with them to stop, but I doubt they will listen
keep in mind BBB also sold other products easily considered paraphenalia related to the controlled substances found in some of the plants
Quote:
Sellers (or anyone) who represent the cactus as a source of mescaline or sell them for their psychoactive properties (for "getting high") are at far higher risk of prosecution. Any preparation of the cactus for ingestion would likely turn the plant into a clearly scheduled (illegal) material. We are not aware of any convictions for the possession or sale of non-peyote mescaline-containing cacti such as San Pedro, but this does not mean that the cacti are "legal", it just means that the cactus has not been considered a problem and is currently not treated as a controlled plant by the police.
These columnar mescaline-containing cacti are readily available from plant vendors across the country. They can be purchased at mega-chains such as Target and Home Depot and are cultivated on government properties and in arboretums. Because of this, simple possession with no intent to ingest is de facto legal. Cutting a propagable section (over 5 inches or 12 cm) off of a live cactus would generally not count as preparation. However, slices, blended or boiled cactus material, pulp, extraction equipment, or any process of extraction could be considered preparation and immediately turns the plant material into a "container" for a Schedule I substance.
South Dakota # One visitor commented:
"I have a friend who had his residence searched; the police siezed around 30g of dried Peruvian Torch cactus flesh, 4oz of dried Amanita muscaria mushrooms, and a very small amount of cannabis seeds and stems. He was charged with possession of a controlled substance (a class 4 felony in South Dakota) because the cacti contained a scheduled substance (mescaline). He gave no information to the police with regard to ingesting the cacti or mushrooms. [...] Apparently, the prosecutors and the judge found that posession of dried cacti flesh (in combination with posession of other "drugs") is a viable means of prosecuting somebody for posession of a controlled substance." (unconfirmed) (thanks K)
-------------------- TheMushroomJesus said: "Doesnt that actually make the most sense? These are intelligent beings that are capable of creating anything, including what you call 'science'. And the suicide cults are a sacrifice to these intelligent beings."
"If any of you knew about Applewhite you would know that he represented JESUS..as we all do. He believed he and all of us were jesus to the point he would kill himself to get the message out...while your here..typing away pointless thoughts on a website pretending to make a difference, when in reality, you will never come close to making as much of a difference as even Applewhite."
you know, the things they sell would strike me at least a little interesting even if I had no interest in using them.
Upon looking at the website, like the jury should be able to, if I were even half a reasonable individual I would have to admit that all these things are pretty much either leaf, mushroom, or cactus, and WOW, that should be amazing that God gave us these magical plants.
Quote: hugger-mugger said: you know, the things they sell would strike me at least a little interesting even if I had no interest in using them.
Upon looking at the website, like the jury should be able to, if I were even half a reasonable individual I would have to admit that all these things are pretty much either leaf, mushroom, or cactus, and WOW, that should be amazing that God gave us these magical plants.
did you see the video of the news report? not only were there your expected cops in the place, but there was some average looking woman, who didn't seem fucked up or evil in any kind of way. Just a normal woman, feeling like she's doing the right thing, shutting down a vendor of "illegal drugs," which are of course, a cancer upon society.
I bet the jury will have many average people like that who think they are doing the right thing, about these "illegal drugs"
-------------------- TheMushroomJesus said: "Doesnt that actually make the most sense? These are intelligent beings that are capable of creating anything, including what you call 'science'. And the suicide cults are a sacrifice to these intelligent beings."
"If any of you knew about Applewhite you would know that he represented JESUS..as we all do. He believed he and all of us were jesus to the point he would kill himself to get the message out...while your here..typing away pointless thoughts on a website pretending to make a difference, when in reality, you will never come close to making as much of a difference as even Applewhite."
people don't wake up because saving america is a lost cause.
you can't fight the most powerful terrorists in the world, that control anything and everything.
Wonder why they don't give a shit about overpopulation even tho anyone with half a brain knows its fucking us? because for one, the rich will always be ontop..so there asses are just fine. and for two, and most important, the more overpopulated we get, the more powerful they get, and the less likely anyone can stop them.
you might be able to get 50 people in town to revolt at best, how many men in uniform do you think will show up? since they are being paid and yours arn't....im guessing the number will always be higher...and they come packing...while your searching for leather whips and pitch forks...
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Isn't it awesome, they did not mention jwh in the news reports.
They said its "on its way to being illegal" which makes it not illegal. If he doesn't take a plea bargain or a deal, he stands a good chance at winning this case.
One of the smoke shops in my area sells k2 products and others just like it. They were also raided but got out of it when the product tested neg for thc.
This product is selling like crazy and thats why the pigs are interested. I live in a military based community, so its very beneficial for them. They can get high w/ no problems on the drug test.
Ya, like fuck honestly as much as u might not like the guy for selling you a shit product once because something fucked up(it happens) You must hate the fucking police more then that.
He knew what he was getting into, I'm sure he is well educated in this field and he would be just plain stupid if he had $700,000 worth the merchandise and didn't even have a lawer to advise him on his every move within this type of business, not to mention he would have been advised of the consiquences and had another account or "stash" of money put away for a time like this. I would like to think that if he was such a good " business man" or an advocate for the type of bussiness he was in that he would have been completely prepared for this.
I'm just saying that I don't think he was so suprised when he got raided that he now has to come up with some kind of stratagy or plan to get himself out of this situation. He must have been somewhat prepared for this?
-------------------- MrFunGuy: "I figured if I put a 15lb cinder block on top of the pot lid that it would cook @15 psi."[]
I live in downtown Lawrence and news spread of this before I could see it on here. BBB was a neat warehouse as well. Unfortunately if this bill is passed, Sacred Journey will most likely lost a large sum of business
they are trying to make an example out of him like they did with Tommy Chong over glass.
it's all BS!~
~
Fucking exactly!!!
-------------------- How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops
Quote: MHbound said: Has anything been setup yet to help this guy out? I bet this guy feels hopeless right now.
Quote: supernovasky said: We should set up a fund for his defense. Shroomery set up a fund for mine and it helped out so much!
Ok so where is this Shroomery, "Let's Show the Fucking Law Who's Boss" Donation Fund for Bouncing Bear? If "every" member Donates $5-10 PayPal, that could mean serious business - better lawyers/attorneys I suppose.
Quote: stickfigure said: I live in downtown Lawrence and news spread of this before I could see it on here. BBB was a neat warehouse as well. Unfortunately if this bill is passed, Sacred Journey will most likely lost a large sum of business
What bill?
-------------------- MrFunGuy: "I figured if I put a 15lb cinder block on top of the pot lid that it would cook @15 psi."[]
Quote: MHbound said: Has anything been setup yet to help this guy out? I bet this guy feels hopeless right now.
Quote: supernovasky said: We should set up a fund for his defense. Shroomery set up a fund for mine and it helped out so much!
Ok so where is this Shroomery, "Let's Show the Fucking Law Who's Boss" Donation Fund for Bouncing Bear? If "every" member Donates $5-10 PayPal, that could mean serious business - better lawyers/attorneys I suppose.
Yes, this is a great idea. No matter what you think of BBB, they provided a valuable service to the community by importing these visionary plants. If the court case goes down it is literally going to be a case that defines this communities access to these materials. If BBB loses, many people here will find it nearly impossible to get their hands on any of this stuff again. MHRB, chali, and PV - good luck growing that shit. DMT is everywhere? Not really. It's not in any form that can be easily accessed by the regular shroomery member.
-------------------- An arrogant asshole who really does know it all.
If your gonna throw your money away then send it my way, or better yet just buy something from one of our vendors because they are the ones who truly keep our hobby alive.
Remember that all his funds have and I'm sure will be siezed. I'm sure your money will be siezed with it. Did anyone even read what I wrote about him knowing what he was in for? I doubt he's using a public defender.
-------------------- MrFunGuy: "I figured if I put a 15lb cinder block on top of the pot lid that it would cook @15 psi."[]
Quote: Cactusdan said: It will certainly be interesting to see how this case ends up.
For sure.
I don't understand how you can arrest someone for something that isn't illegal? What is next, is the DEA going to be raiding Home Depots and Lowes for selling San Pedro in their garden section?
come on now home depot isnt saying this is drugs you can get high its like peyote cause this is mescaline.
same way pet stores selling bufo toads arent selling as a drug. thats why its also 30 dollars for one not 200.
clearly they were saying hey we have drugs need drugs we got drugs seriously. btw they are semi legal so dont worry wait till the police see neuro soup im gona happy when she gets raided dumb fuck
i jus dont hope it comes back to bite us
i think anyone involved in the bouncing bear films is gona hate them self and get watched pretty much watch out cosm and dan pinchbeck
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
-------------------- I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body
Ok so where is this Shroomery, "Let's Show the Fucking Law Who's Boss" Donation Fund for Bouncing Bear? If "every" member Donates $5-10 PayPal, that could mean serious business - better lawyers/attorneys I suppose.
I like the sound of that slogan. If anyone lawyer is worth his salt he'd do it for free, just out of love for the constitution. However the world is far from perfect. I would still donate anyways
-------------------- How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops
Quote: Puma said: People who call him "wreckless" are as brainwashed as the cops who busted him. People who say he sold bunk product probably don't know the secrets of brewing ayahuasca. I always get an elder shaman to brew mine, and actually, BBB's products were fine.
I understand your respect for these things, but not everyone thinks like you do, for various, legitimate reasons. It's nice that you have a friend who considers himself an "elder shaman." Not everyone has that luxury, nor does everyone who puts chemicals in their body consider themselves a medicine man. BBB's products were not always good quality, even if your personal experience was always positive.
Quote: And about selling toads to the wrong people, as lukeboots also ranted about: okay Einstein, is it also wrong to sell knives because people might use them as weapons? No. Just because things can be misused is not an argument for making them illegal, especially when the potential good they can do is without measure.
I am 100% against selling live animals for profit with the (veiled) intention of extracting drugs from their bodies. If you're not, we'll have to just leave it at that.
Quote: I will close this message of lamentation for a persecuted hero with this quotation, from Terrence McKenna's essay "Plan, Plant, Planet" in which he points out that the consciousness reached through entheogens is what we need to guide this ailing planet and our society towards a better future.
"The process begins by declaring legitimate what we have denied for so long. Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."
Idealism is nice, but it should be clear to see that the "Powers that be" aren't very receptive to broad concepts like the last sentence of that McKenna quote.
I still think it's BS that the government is arresting someone for selling gray-area products like they were, but BBB knew that what they were doing was in fact a gray-area in the law, and they were pushing their luck selling things like K2 (a product that sells very well, aka $$$ for BBB). Selling shoddy products and [indirectly] advertising to kids on youtube only added to their problems.
Quote: MHbound said: Has anything been setup yet to help this guy out? I bet this guy feels hopeless right now.
Quote: supernovasky said: We should set up a fund for his defense. Shroomery set up a fund for mine and it helped out so much!
Ok so where is this Shroomery, "Let's Show the Fucking Law Who's Boss" Donation Fund for Bouncing Bear? If "every" member Donates $5-10 PayPal, that could mean serious business - better lawyers/attorneys I suppose.
Yes, this is a great idea. No matter what you think of BBB, they provided a valuable service to the community by importing these visionary plants. If the court case goes down it is literally going to be a case that defines this communities access to these materials. If BBB loses, many people here will find it nearly impossible to get their hands on any of this stuff again. MHRB, chali, and PV - good luck growing that shit. DMT is everywhere? Not really. It's not in any form that can be easily accessed by the regular shroomery member.
I don't think enough people realize that. From erowid's legality of cacti section: Sellers (or anyone) who represent the cactus as a source of mescaline or sell them for their psychoactive properties (for "getting high") are at far higher risk of prosecution. Any preparation of the cactus for ingestion would likely turn the plant into a clearly scheduled (illegal) material. We are not aware of any convictions for the possession or sale of non-peyote mescaline-containing cacti such as San Pedro, but this does not mean that the cacti are "legal", it just means that the cactus has not been considered a problem and is currently not treated as a controlled plant by the police.
This means what was just stated; this court case WILL set the legal precedent for cases concerning the legality of mescaline-containing cacti, DMT-containing plants (doesn't every living thing contain DMT, though), LSA-containing seeds, etc. The only reason shroom spores are definitely legal is because the spores themselves don't contain psilocybin. However, the cacti themselves DO contain mescaline.
Still, I personally think it should just be how many people assumed it was: it only becomes illegal if you extract the illegal chemicals, prepare the plant for consumption, or sell it for human consumption. Otherwise, it's just a plant, and intent can not likely be proven. However, I'm sure we all feel this way. Which is why this particular court case is so stressful and has so much riding on it.
It's not just, "Oh, damn, BBB is awesome; that's fucked up." It's more like, "Fuck, I may not be able to get mescaline, DMT, LSA, or many other easy-to-access psychedelics in this country anymore."
Which, needless to say, really fucking sucks. I feel this pretty hard too, considering I just recently got into this shit and discovered how easy it is to get many psychedelics on the internet. I did LSA twice, and I have done mescaline and am soon doing it again, and I've now smoked my own extracted DMT. Right when I start delving into this wonderful world, it could very easily be forcefully stripped away.
pretty much this is probably gona we worse then how RCs now. at least MG seeds from home depot
as for their products the varied it really depended on what you got some things were quality others werent ayhauasca stuff usually great just pricey for what it is. quality in that varies from season to season tho they are jungle plants.
any who its hard to say they werent distrubiting cacti for the wrong reason when majority of the cacti they had were active they did have inactive cacti tho so that might help
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Quote: stickfigure said: I live in downtown Lawrence and news spread of this before I could see it on here. BBB was a neat warehouse as well. Unfortunately if this bill is passed, Sacred Journey will most likely lost a large sum of business
What bill?
A bill has been written outlawing any synthetic cannabanoids and its paraphanelia in kansas. Has not been passed YET
Add my name to list of people who are bummed by this news. I think that if Sloan thought he was in danger of getting busted, he would have done things differently.
That really sucks. The country has murdered yet another person. For all intensive purposes, his life is now over. The feds killed him.
Just know, kiddies, that the only way to be safe is to be a slave.
Now the feds have my name on yet another list. I wonder how long before they come and trash my house with a big shitty grin on their face. It's fucking futile to try for contentment on this tainted planet; whatever happens happens. I welcome the end of it all.
This just makes me so fucking mad, The fucking government is just looking so god damn hard to make shit illegal, "To Protect Us from our god damned selves" LIKE FUUUUUUCKKKKKKK dude, ITS A GOD DAMN CACTUS, If someone wants to suffer through the terrible taste and eat it to get high then who the FUCK GIVES A FLYING FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. Alcohol is worse then fucking anything that they've banned. Like damnit they just want more shit to get convictions for, Lets fill up the penetenturies with a buncha fucking people that just wanted to have fun because the're so busy working and paying Taxes that they wanted to spend a day tripping and learning shit about themselves, but no u gotta smoke cigarettes or get fucking drunk and kill ur liver/lungs. HONESTLY i dunno why i just snapped but like fuck what is this world coming 2.
Quote: supernovasky said: We should set up a fund for his defense. Shroomery set up a fund for mine and it helped out so much!
fuck that, he did it upon himself. Marketing these drugs with neurosoup and the likes. Selling "all natural herbs" laced with chemicals.selling bunk products. He was stepping on a fine line, and he stepped over it. Is it wrong that he has to be locked up because of it? yes. but what did he think was going to happen? they must protect the children.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
FUCK! I just got this e-mail from a vendor which I bought MHRB from for my first time a week or two ago. Good quality, and prices which I have yet to see beaten anywhere. Even if they were beaten, I doubt it'd still be such high quality.
Greetings friend,
yes we are quite saddened by the recent event which transpired in the USA regarding probably the biggest botanical distributors in the country. legal action against them has resulted in us pulling inventory and many other ethno shops shutting down. this was a difficult decision but it seems to be the wise thing to do right now. Although we do not and have not ever sold the questionable product (K2 smoking blend) which caused the FDA take action against the other shop, we think it is best to limit all sales of the products which were mentioned on the list of charges against them. These charges were not due to the fact that the plants themselves are illicit, but they may have been included to set the stage for future precedents against the plants to be made. It is unclear at this point and most likely nothing will happen with the legal status of any of the plants for a year, if ever.
However, ********* ****** will no longer function as a botanical supply or a MHRB portal. We are changing to a gem & mineral shop and perhaps will still carry some live plants and seeds.
We do still have access to the best MHRB and there is still a significant portion of this product already on the way to the United States. It is possible that we will continue selling it, but not through ********* ******. We have a mail handler in Ohio who would like to continue. He is also very good at making sure packages find their way quickly and on time.
We also have a MHRB portal already implemented that was functioning as a separate entity. This is the link:
[link removed by me]
This is a USA portal for MHRB which currently only supports google checkout. We may add paypal as well if we decide to fully implement this plan. Currently no stock is listed because no stock is in the USA. This page will most likely get updated once the stock arrives so please check back in the future.
A wholesale site is currently being built and should be done within in about a month. This site will have purpose in facilitating direct wholesale orders from our suppliers to our customers. Prices will be great and it supports Euro, USD and will be in three different languages. Please stay in touch for future updates of this site because when we publish it, it will be linked from ********* ******.
We will also continue to sell the Banisteriopsis caapi vine at ********* ******. This plant is clearly acceptable in the eyes of the law and will be no problem to sell. We have discontinued the extracts permanently.
As the times change and morph so must we and only time will tell exactly where this will go. One thing is for sure, we love our customers and we love the work that we do here. We do not want to see everybody left without, but at the same time we must assure that everybody remains safe and happy.
We are also happy to receive email enquiries regarding purchase of our previous offerings. We also have a significant stock of Chachruna currently which must be sold. If you have any interest in this, or any questions regarding the situation or how it may evolve, please do not hesitate to send us an email!
If we cannot help you by providing the product you seek, we will be sure to point you in the right direction.
Thanks a bunch, we love you all.
Peace & Light!
This email address was given to us by you or by one of our customers. If you feel that you have received this email in error, please send an email to [e-mail address removed by me]
Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored and respected.
Quote: supernovasky said: We should set up a fund for his defense. Shroomery set up a fund for mine and it helped out so much!
I don't think that is a good idea for two reasons.
1) If he doesn't already have a lawyer on retainer and/or some buried cash, he clearly skipped too much class when he went to criminal school. Its likely that he doesn't need our help.
When I attended the California Criminal Academy, they told me on the first day that I should always have a lawyer on retainer when I sell huge amounts of mescaline and DMT so I don't need to get a job at McDonalds to pay for my defense when they freeze my bank accounts.
2) I don't think we want him to fight this case. If he takes his case to trial and loses, the precedent will turn a large gray area into a solid black zone. If he was going to fight and win, he would have had his business in Arcata, California so half of the jury would be pot farmers. We don't want the case that sets the precedent with regards to the analogue act, MHRB and non-peyote mescaline cacti to be argued with a Kansas jury and a defendant that clearly knew he was selling tons of drugs.
If they pinch some old guy for growing san pedro, that would be the time to set a precedent. Not now.
If he doesn't take it to trial there will be no precedent set and the gray area will remain.
Quote: convulsions said:The DEA may be able to control LSD or MDMA, or even meth if they just banned psuedoephedrine(they really should, that is the only good solution to the meth problem)
This is a bit naive in my experience. In my town meth is so abundant that most kids try it before marijuana! 90% of the meth here is imported from mexico by a mexican cartel that took over the drug trade here, the remaining 10% is little closet labs run by addicts producing for themselves and just enough extra to buy more chems. I've talked to on-duty police here and they say they wish marijuana were legalized so they could have more resources to fight the cartel and other real crimes! Banning pseudo here will only give a little extra business to the murderous cartel that produces it in another country while at the same time taking another important and effective medicine away from the sick (the pseudo substitutes are a joke, no better than placebo). Wanting to ban a valued medicine because a small minority abuses it is no different than banning AIDS patients from using marijuana because healthy kids sometimes drive while stoned. Banning everything in sight out of knee-jerk reactions is how the system got this fucked up to begin with. [/rant]
yeah its crazy the FDA it would be funny if they were wearing FDA jackets its a raid FDA mother fucker
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Quote: danielx said: he had it coming. i warned him a year ago of this. He would personally answer questions of consumption.
neurosoup couldn't have helped shit...
-------------------- Let me out of this place
I'm outta place
I'm in outer space
I've just vanished without a trace
I'm going to a pretty place now where the flowers grow
I'll be back in an hour or so
ohhh not that im siding with neurosoup or anything... but BBB was a sponser of this site and this site gets about 250 thousand unique hits every month. (right ythan?) That is a lot of people...
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
Quote: Cognitive_Shift said: ohhh not that im siding with neurosoup or anything... but BBB was a sponser of this site and this site gets about 250 thousand unique hits every month. (right ythan?) That is a lot of people...
so abandon ship lol. I know we need money to keep going but I think the neuro/bbb thing was fucked up like the fact that people would ask and receive info on consuming products sold not for consumption....
If this site weren't here I doubt I'd spend much time on the web, and I'm glad I've spent so much time on the web, I've learned more on my own than school taught me...
I may not have choose the best subject to learn(drugs lol) but I ended up learning a lot a pharmacology, mycology, botany, chemistry, and math.
I just feel that people like neurosoup make it seem like no big to take drugs, when really it is, there are many repercussions in the end. I've lost more than gained all in good fun too.
-------------------- Let me out of this place
I'm outta place
I'm in outer space
I've just vanished without a trace
I'm going to a pretty place now where the flowers grow
I'll be back in an hour or so
I sent dude an email telling him that someone was on EBG bragging that they were buying or attempting to buy Lophs from him , trying to warn him. He sent me back several replies that were trying to sell me shit. I sent him one more explaining where he was fucking up & he gave me a short reply saying don't worry about it. Oh well.
He brought it on himself, and I also think it's a pretty selfish and asinine thing to do to endanger the legality of sacred entheogens (I call them sacred because without them we are missing a part of life itself), by marketing them to high-seekers and selling them alongside products like K2. I always got a very commercial and greedy vibe from BBB
I'm not glad his freedom is in danger, but I am not happy that he has endangered many other freedoms by his seemingly greedy marketing tactics. Not that he is the only one, but there are vendors who are MUCH MUCH MUCH more discreet and who pose far less of a threat to our ability to obtain the plants we hold dear
-------------------- TheMushroomJesus said: "Doesnt that actually make the most sense? These are intelligent beings that are capable of creating anything, including what you call 'science'. And the suicide cults are a sacrifice to these intelligent beings."
"If any of you knew about Applewhite you would know that he represented JESUS..as we all do. He believed he and all of us were jesus to the point he would kill himself to get the message out...while your here..typing away pointless thoughts on a website pretending to make a difference, when in reality, you will never come close to making as much of a difference as even Applewhite."
Quote: the bizzle said: He brought it on himself, and I also think it's a pretty selfish and asinine thing to do to endanger the legality of sacred entheogens (I call them sacred because without them we are missing a part of life itself), by marketing them to high-seekers and selling them alongside products like K2. I always got a very commercial and greedy vibe from BBB
I'm not glad his freedom is in danger, but I am not happy that he has endangered many other freedoms by his seemingly greedy marketing tactics. Not that he is the only one, but there are vendors who are MUCH MUCH MUCH more discreet and who pose far less of a threat to our ability to obtain the plants we hold dear
you just put it better than I could have!
-------------------- Let me out of this place
I'm outta place
I'm in outer space
I've just vanished without a trace
I'm going to a pretty place now where the flowers grow
I'll be back in an hour or so
Quote: the bizzle said: He brought it on himself, and I also think it's a pretty selfish and asinine thing to do to endanger the legality of sacred entheogens (I call them sacred because without them we are missing a part of life itself), by marketing them to high-seekers and selling them alongside products like K2. I always got a very commercial and greedy vibe from BBB
I'm not glad his freedom is in danger, but I am not happy that he has endangered many other freedoms by his seemingly greedy marketing tactics. Not that he is the only one, but there are vendors who are MUCH MUCH MUCH more discreet and who pose far less of a threat to our ability to obtain the plants we hold dear
Yep, very sad though that he had to go down.
-------------------- Everything I say is for my own entertainment.
I wonder if that fed would be laughing if they had her ass in the soup. Reminds me of the shit that went on in Abu Greab. Trophy photo federales
-------------------- Alice I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!
Quote: UnholyChild666 said: I find it odd that the website is still up
Guy's probably been too busy to do much with the website.
The DEA could shut it down
I'm not so sure they can. I'm not sure that they have the technological ability or the constitutional ability. If BBB's website was doing something illegal, then yes- but so far, it doesn't seem to be. Closing one store in one state is not like closing an inter-state operation. DEA has jurisdiction, yes- I'm not sure about power in this case.
Plus, where are they hosted and by what company? A non-US provider can laugh in DEA's face for months or years before any pressure is brought against them. I mean look at The Pirate Bay, right?
Quote: UnholyChild666 said: yeah pirate bay got shut down numerous times
Right- but it took a huge amount of work (and money) to make it happen. DEA doesn't have the resources that Hollywood does. Still, I wouldn't order from the site. If anybody else has access, maybe they could take it down or post a notice.
do we live in a nation where they can just come raid your home and take all your things and lock you up for no good reason? How are things like this justified and tolerated in our society? When a man or a woman is persecuted and robbed of their livelihood by their own government? When are people going to wake the hell up and start standing up to these persecutions against religion and personal liberty?
Especially in this case where it appears no laws have been broken. I don't care if the guy personally told people how to take the stuff. WE STILL HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH RIGHT? oh please tell me so...
I don't agree with why he was arrested but I must admit that I find this truly hilarious. The dude should have known that he'd catch something when he got into bed with that wretched skank neurosoup... And catch something he did, a fucking bid.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
it sucks for ppl making orders, they are probably building a list of ppl to watch
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
if he gets all that he is charged with he will be be locked up for some time, not to mention he will be ruined job financially.
...over something that he did not break the law for.
you guys think thats ok? and that he deserved it?
Its sad when filthy greedy scum get there way, no one cares if others get there liberty as long as it doesn't effect them... good ol' democracy.
just because you sell sacred plants does not make you a damned soul. i think online shops are a great way to spread things, not everyone has resources or access to items. I have yet to meet one greenhouse owner or natural medicinal shop owner that deserves this kind of treatment, and i'v met a lot.
if your selling toads as drugs for 4times the price they would be in the pet store first, off thats kinda fucked you know not all the kids ordering are gona take care of them right and second, yes thats illegal. the fact that the price is inflated that much is a clear sign that its being used that way.
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: Grizzly Adams] #11986913 - 02/08/10 09:19 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)
It's always comical for me to see these enlightened psychonauts here acting just like some conservative redneck parent.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Icelander said: over something that he did not break the law for.
you guys think thats ok? and that he deserved it?
It's always comical for me to see these enlightened psychonauts here acting just like some conservative redneck parent.
In their minds they are being holy holding an anti sacred substance for profit mindset
-------------------- How many psychedelic users — in any country — actually give
time to the local church soup kitchen, helping to feed the homeless and
hungry? How many of us, having had the experience, under the influence
of the visionary drugs, of seeing all human beings as incarnations of God,
have gone down to the local hospital to give affection and a listening ear to
lonely patients who need somebody to talk to? How many of us regularly
visit a jail, to provide spiritual and emotional support to confused, damaged
people who have grown up unloved, uneducated and unguided by their
confused, damaged parents -Alexander Shulgin
BBB is still in business, without the products that were seized of course (now listed as out of stock on their website).
Apparently, Mr. Sloan is out on bond at the present time, but restricted from speaking on sensitive matters and has not been seen in his place of business or associating with any of the people working there. There is a private legal firm representing him with a defense fund in place, however I do not yet have any detailed information on where money can reliably be sent for his aid. If and when I receive such information, or any related information that is deemed appropriate to publicly dispense, I will make it available here.
--------------------
--------------------
┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
no one who hasn't directly and intentionally harmed another person deserves what those pricks are going to try to do in the name of "setting an example and a precident."
if one isn't supposed to make enough to pay one's employees and keep bread and beans on the table while distributing entheogens, then why would anyone do it?
if it's a full time gig, how is one supposed to do the little things like paying bills and feeding one's kids without making a profit? profit just means "i can do this and eat too." - it's not some dirty word. if you think profit and trading is in poor taste, you are most likely some overprivileged yuppie who is so out of touch with the real world you wouldn't know trouble if it was up your ass.
real ppl have to make a living and if one can find a way to do it and help others have fun and grow spiritually instead of doing something hateful, then why not?
and if you didn't like his business practices, do you really dare stand here and say he deserves this crap because he didn't do toads the way you think he should have or because you didn't like your cutting he deserves stormtroopers in his house? are you really going to go over to the Sith like that?
-------------------- if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.
Quote: Grizzly Adams said: the guy did not get what was coming to him.
if he gets all that he is charged with he will be be locked up for some time, not to mention he will be ruined job financially.
...over something that he did not break the law for.
you guys think thats ok? and that he deserved it?
Its sad when filthy greedy scum get there way, no one cares if others get there liberty as long as it doesn't effect them... good ol' democracy.
just because you sell sacred plants does not make you a damned soul. i think online shops are a great way to spread things, not everyone has resources or access to items. I have yet to meet one greenhouse owner or natural medicinal shop owner that deserves this kind of treatment, and i'v met a lot.
Don't forget, these are the same fucknuts who post about stealing from Walmart and others. Who post about getting revenge on others. Who scheme about dosing others without their knowledge and who get their pets high.Yes, the same fucks that post pics of their ex's to "teach them a lesson". The same ones who give homophobes a pat on the back.
What did you expect from a bunch of immature twerps?
And while I'm rolling..... stop with the "sacred" crap. They're plants for fucks sake. No more or less sacred than any other.
(none of this was directed at the person I replied to. Don't know you. Your post was just a good response point.)
-------------------- “In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
-----------------------------------
A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
Quote: laotzo said: no one who hasn't directly and intentionally harmed another person deserves what those pricks are going to try to do in the name of "setting an example and a precident."
if one isn't supposed to make enough to pay one's employees and keep bread and beans on the table while distributing entheogens, then why would anyone do it?
if it's a full time gig, how is one supposed to do the little things like paying bills and feeding one's kids without making a profit? profit just means "i can do this and eat too." - it's not some dirty word. if you think profit and trading is in poor taste, you are most likely some overprivileged yuppie who is so out of touch with the real world you wouldn't know trouble if it was up your ass.
real ppl have to make a living and if one can find a way to do it and help others have fun and grow spiritually instead of doing something hateful, then why not?
and if you didn't like his business practices, do you really dare stand here and say he deserves this crap because he didn't do toads the way you think he should have or because you didn't like your cutting he deserves stormtroopers in his house? are you really going to go over to the Sith like that?
-------------------- “In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
-----------------------------------
A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
This is shitty news. I just recently made two orders with them. Should i be worried? On the tracking number it hasnt updated in 4 days and just has an update of a departure scan from Kansas.
Quote: laotzo said: and if you didn't like his business practices, do you really dare stand here and say he deserves this crap because he didn't do toads the way you think he should have or because you didn't like your cutting he deserves stormtroopers in his house? are you really going to go over to the Sith like that?
dude. its not about the toads. selling shit for more then its worth is economics. It was about his unsavory marketing. He had what was coming towards him for utilizing nerosoup and youtube to lure in the dumb hippie kids. Not only that, he walked the thin line of advertising these plants for consumption. He himself would personally talk about consumption through email.
of course no one here agrees with drug prohibition. but he clearly brought this one upon himself.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Quote: laotzo said: and if you didn't like his business practices, do you really dare stand here and say he deserves this crap because he didn't do toads the way you think he should have or because you didn't like your cutting he deserves stormtroopers in his house? are you really going to go over to the Sith like that?
dude. its not about the toads. selling shit for more then its worth is economics. It was about his unsavory marketing. He had what was coming towards him for utilizing nerosoup and youtube to lure in the dumb hippie kids. Not only that, he walked the thin line of advertising these plants for consumption. He himself would personally talk about consumption through email.
of course no one here agrees with drug prohibition. but he clearly brought this one upon himself.
This is what it boils down to. Combined with the fact that all of this was run out of Kansas. It made him a pretty easy target.
-------------------- Fingerbang, bang, bang.
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: danielx] #11987713 - 02/08/10 11:50 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)
of course no one here agrees with drug prohibition.
He had what was coming towards him for utilizing nerosoup and youtube to lure in the dumb hippie kids.
Anyone else see the obvious contradiction here? Did he force anyone to buy from him?
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Icelander said: of course no one here agrees with drug prohibition.
He had what was coming towards him for utilizing nerosoup and youtube to lure in the dumb hippie kids.
Anyone else see the obvious contradiction here? Did he force anyone to buy from him?
are you kidding me? I dont agree with drug prohibition, but i dont go actively parading myself around youtube advertising my illegal warez. its common sense dude, come on.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: danielx] #11987839 - 02/08/10 12:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
Doesn't matter. If you are against drug prohibition then no one, no one, NO ONE, is deserving of being busted for it.
Wake up to what you are saying.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
So he deserves to be busted because he doesn't behave according your your standards of morality. Even though he is doing nothing morally wrong by selling these things according to you.
Nice logic you got goin there.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
its not morality. its safety. he wasn't be safe and smart advertising to dumb hippies via youtube. he wasn't being smart talking about consuming his products. he wasn't being smart selling "all natural" herbs mixed with chemical cannboids.
If i went down to the police station and tried to sell drugs to police, that wouldn't be smart. id deserveto be rolled.
but I guess we can agree to disagree.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Quote: danielx said: its not morality. its safety. he wasn't be safe and smart advertising to dumb hippies via youtube. he wasn't being smart talking about consuming his products. he wasn't being smart selling "all natural" herbs mixed with chemical cannboids.
If i went down to the police station and tried to sell drugs to police, that wouldn't be smart. id deserveto be rolled.
but I guess we can agree to disagree.
You just don't get it. It doesn't matter what his business practices were. He doesn't deserve to be busted for selling something you believe should be legal.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Well if someone ever rats you out for using these substances then you deserve it. Cause hey, it's illegal.
I live in the same world you do and for a lot longer.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
He's arguing for the principal of the matter. A lot of people have the attitude of "well if you get caught with drugs, you were doing something stupid and deserved to be caught." This is irrelevant. It should not have been an illegal activity in the first place.
Quote: Society said: He's arguing for the principal of the matter. A lot of people have the attitude of "well if you get caught with drugs, you were doing something stupid and deserved to be caught." This is irrelevant. It should not have been an illegal activity in the first place.
right. but it is. but still that wasn't my argument. my argument was he was doing these illegal things in an unsavory way. I think everyone saw this coming, just go look at the neurosoup thread.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Quote: systm said: This is shitty news. I just recently made two orders with them. Should i be worried? On the tracking number it hasnt updated in 4 days and just has an update of a departure scan from Kansas.
I'm not sure. Mine just came in today, but I ordered it a day or two before this happened. It could be bad if it hasn't updated since departing Kansas. Who knows if it actually left, or if it just got scanned and was going to leave in the morning? Definitely shouldn't take four days just for another update. I ordered mine on the third; it got here today on the eighth.
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: Society] #11988240 - 02/08/10 01:11 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Society said: He's arguing for the principal of the matter. A lot of people have the attitude of "well if you get caught with drugs, you were doing something stupid and deserved to be caught." This is irrelevant. It should not have been an illegal activity in the first place.
right. but it is. but still that wasn't my argument. my argument was he was doing these illegal things in an unsavory way. I think everyone saw this coming, just go look at the neurosoup thread.
this second quote...
it proves that there isn't an intelligence test on the shroomery registration form and makes a good case that perhaps there should be.
this is logic so skewed to call it logic is to hide the amazing level of illogic within it.
-------------------- if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
"its not morality. its safety. he wasn't be safe and smart advertising to dumb hippies via youtube. he wasn't being smart talking about consuming his products. he wasn't being smart selling "all natural" herbs mixed with chemical cannboids."
if thats not unsavory. then fuck it. i give up. BBB is a saint.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: danielx] #11988328 - 02/08/10 01:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
He doesn't have to be a saint. There are lots of kids doing time for possession that aren't saints. But do they deserve it?
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
fine. i retract my statement. let me reword it because you are so caught up on it. Do they deserve it? no. Did he bring it upon himself? Yes. Therefore, I dont have an ounce of sympathy for him. especially since I personally spoke to him, told him to tone his shit down, and he assured me he had everything under control. guess not.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: danielx] #11988386 - 02/08/10 01:35 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: "its not morality. its safety. he wasn't be safe and smart advertising to dumb hippies via youtube. he wasn't being smart talking about consuming his products. he wasn't being smart selling "all natural" herbs mixed with chemical cannboids."
None of things you mention sound unsavory to me. He has a business and he advertises on youtube. That sounds like modern marketing, nothing to be ashamed of. Of course dumb hippies are his main customers. These are drugs we are talking about, and dumb hippies like drugs.
Of course its risky to talk about consumption. That is risky, not unsavory.
I think selling herbs mixed with synthetic cannabinoids is both smart and savory. Marijuana prohibition is wrong and he found a way around it.
Quote: Therefore, I dont have an ounce of sympathy for him. especially since I personally spoke to him, told him to tone his shit down, and he assured me he had everything under control. guess not.
You are starting to sound like a cold hearted bastard.
I have lots of sympathy for him. He took some risks and things didn't work out. That makes him an unsuccessful risk taker, not some kind of shady character.
Since BBB is still open, everyone that needs something they still stock should vote with their dollars and order from him.
Quote: danielx said: go skim through the neurosoup thread if you don't believe me.
I don't need to know, it's not what I was debating here.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
who are you president clinton? arguing what the meaning of "is" is?
unsavory isn't even close to risky in meaning
deserve and poor judgement aren't even close either.
i think you one or all of the following apply to your little rant here...
a. you "told" someone and they apparently weren't appropriately grateful for your dispensation of wisdom and you are still butthurt, and thus secretly enjoying his misfortune and cloaking it with this routine, which makes this post just leeching us for more fun, which is the nastiest troll i have personally seen yet, if true
b. you had a falling out with them business wise or personally and same drill, are enjoying this
c. are truly simply this misinformed and poorly trained in logical thought. with our schools it is possible... if you ARE really sincere, then i am at a loss for words. really.
-------------------- if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.
Kansas SB481 28-Jan-2008 Schedule I Passed - 24-April-2008 Sen. Peggy Mast incl. any extract from any part, and every compound, manufacture, derivative, mixture or preparation of such plant, its seeds or extracts.
thats clearly a crime he was selling schedule 1 substance in that state thats one drug trafficing felony for starts
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: thedudenj] #11988977 - 02/08/10 03:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
So what. That's not the debate here. Fuck I got to get out of this forum.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Swyfty Swyf said: He may have filled Salvia orders from another state.
It wasn't on the list of charges.
maybe wheres the list btw?
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Quote: Swyfty Swyf said: He may have filled Salvia orders from another state.
It wasn't on the list of charges.
maybe wheres the list btw?
Current charges against Jon are:
- Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine (DMT) - Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Mescaline - Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide - Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Mescaline - Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine; Chacruna; Illinois Bundleflower; Epena; Cebil Seeds. - Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Bufotenine, Epena, Chaliponga, Cebil Seeds, Colorado River Toads. - Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide, Morning Glory Seeds, Rivea Corymbosa. - Unlawful possession of certain drug precursors and drug paraphernalia: Plastic jugs and filters used or intended for unlawful use to manufacture, cultivate, plant propagate, harvest, test, analyze or distribute a controlled substance.
yeah those are hard to run from thats R-tarded if he had extractions in production while it was raided or at his home
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
It doesn't matter what you or I think of drug prohibition. The point is, drugs are currently illegal, until we the people change the laws. He knew the risks involved when he got into the business of selling gray area substances. Despite knowing all of the risks involved he made some extremely dumb business decisions that brought unwanted attention upon him which ultimately led to him getting popped. It's an unfortunate situation but I have no pity for him. I don't personally know the man and as far as I'm concerned he's a fucking retard who brought this upon himself. However, I don't believe he deserves to go to prison either... that's just the way she goes until the laws are changed. Not everything is black and white, pops.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: GeoMcCheeseburgers] #11989207 - 02/08/10 03:26 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
Why the fuck are you telling me this? I've been arguing this line from the beginning.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Kansas SB481 28-Jan-2008 Schedule I Passed - 24-April-2008 Sen. Peggy Mast incl. any extract from any part, and every compound, manufacture, derivative, mixture or preparation of such plant, its seeds or extracts.
thats clearly a crime he was selling schedule 1 substance in that state thats one drug trafficing felony for starts
They sold salvia from a separate location. I believe it was in Arizona.
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
"He was not marketing them that way". What the Fuck! I can't believe the laws in this country! It contradicts everything we were founded on, Motha fuckin babylon! I hope they're proud of themselves, confiscated natural life and deeming it unethical, WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO SAY NATURE DID WRONG! MOTHER FUCKERS! The seeds I got from BBB were mostly bunkin though. Still! I thought that selling psychedelic plants (some) for use other than consumtion was legal? San Pedro, peruvian torch, Wild dagga, etc. How the fuck do they expect them to be sold? Plants gotta be grown..
Quote: jim617 said: If your gonna throw your money away then send it my way, or better yet just buy something from one of our vendors because they are the ones who truly keep our hobby alive.
Remember that all his funds have and I'm sure will be siezed. I'm sure your money will be siezed with it.
Wrong. A private defense fund is being set up. When it is, I'll be in line with a nice chunk of change. What is at stake here is the very legality of living natural products such as seeds, leaves, roots, toads and cactus. This is YOUR TAX DOLLARS being used by YOUR GOVERNMENT to abusively persecute a US citizen for choosing a career selling perfectly legal natural products.
This matter has intense ramifications for the future. The FDA must not win...in fact, they need to be sent home with their tail between their legs.
C'mon folks...THINK what this means to your freedom of choice and personal freedoms!!!!!
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
He doesn't deserve to be in jail but he was asking for it...
He had a link on the top of BBB's Website that said "Forums" that took you directly to DancingBear forums where people talking preparations, extractions and experiences. Retarded!
He should have opened up an unaffiliated movie making company to make Manifesting the Mind. Instead he opened Bouncing Bear Films that promotes, on his store website, a DVD about ingesting shamanic plants and advertised as "Everything you could ever want to know about psychedelics!"
Real smart for someone running an herb store for herbs used as incense & paint.
I thought it was fucked up he sold those toads like that...
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
And shouldn't be shipped through several states in shoe boxes...
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
Wow...you guys are focusing on minutia and are missing the big picture here. This is NOT going to be about BBB. This potentially is going to impact the governments ability to prosecute an american citizen if they buy, sell, trade or possess ANY species of plant or animal that contains a scheduled or analogue molecule!!!!
Wake the fuck UP!!! This is NOT about Sloan or BBB (well, it is, but is not limited to him) this is going to be a test case and be a precedent setting case.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
Quote: Nature Boy said: Wow...you guys are focusing on minutia and are missing the big picture here. This is NOT going to be about BBB. This potentially is going to impact the governments ability to prosecute an american citizen if they buy, sell, trade or possess ANY species of plant or animal that contains a scheduled or analogue molecule!!!!
Wake the fuck UP!!! This is NOT about Sloan or BBB (well, it is, but is not limited to him) this is going to be a test case and be a precedent setting case.
N.B.
what do we do now?
-------------------- you read a book before you fuck!?
Quote: Nature Boy said: Wow...you guys are focusing on minutia and are missing the big picture here. This is NOT going to be about BBB. This potentially is going to impact the governments ability to prosecute an american citizen if they buy, sell, trade or possess ANY species of plant or animal that contains a scheduled or analogue molecule!!!!
Wake the fuck UP!!! This is NOT about Sloan or BBB (well, it is, but is not limited to him) this is going to be a test case and be a precedent setting case.
N.B.
Agreed, that's why it is so frustrating he did things like open that forum on the site.
He was the big image and as such should have been not been taking ANY chances. There were plenty of boards he was a sponsor on.
The future of the ethno-community is now seriously at risk.
Quote: Nature Boy said: Wow...you guys are focusing on minutia and are missing the big picture here. This is NOT going to be about BBB. This potentially is going to impact the governments ability to prosecute an american citizen if they buy, sell, trade or possess ANY species of plant or animal that contains a scheduled or analogue molecule!!!!
Wake the fuck UP!!! This is NOT about Sloan or BBB (well, it is, but is not limited to him) this is going to be a test case and be a precedent setting case.
N.B.
QFT
When I saw this headline, my heart skipped a beat or three.
Sure BBB may or may not be going down. But whatever happens in court, you can bet your sweet bippy that the US Court system will use this ruling (if it goes against Jon) against all enothegenic suppliers, which is even worse.
In a way, it is BBB's fault, but at the same time, Jon is a nice guy, provides great service, and doesn't deserve all this shit.
-------------------- Moodion said: There's only one way to answer that frustrating question of "what was it like?".
You hand the fucker The Machine packed with an 80mg dose and wave goodbye.
Quote: jim617 said: If your gonna throw your money away then send it my way, or better yet just buy something from one of our vendors because they are the ones who truly keep our hobby alive.
Remember that all his funds have and I'm sure will be siezed. I'm sure your money will be siezed with it.
Wrong. A private defense fund is being set up. When it is, I'll be in line with a nice chunk of change. What is at stake here is the very legality of living natural products such as seeds, leaves, roots, toads and cactus. This is YOUR TAX DOLLARS being used by YOUR GOVERNMENT to abusively persecute a US citizen for choosing a career selling perfectly legal natural products.
This matter has intense ramifications for the future. The FDA must not win...in fact, they need to be sent home with their tail between their legs.
C'mon folks...THINK what this means to your freedom of choice and personal freedoms!!!!!
N.B.
I dont know much about the issue, but if he fights it, and loses, will that set a legal precedent? Will that turn this grey market into something entirely illegal no matter what?
Alan said,
Quote:
2) I don't think we want him to fight this case. If he takes his case to trial and loses, the precedent will turn a large gray area into a solid black zone. If he was going to fight and win, he would have had his business in Arcata, California so half of the jury would be pot farmers. We don't want the case that sets the precedent with regards to the analogue act, MHRB and non-peyote mescaline cacti to be argued with a Kansas jury and a defendant that clearly knew he was selling tons of drugs.
If they pinch some old guy for growing san pedro, that would be the time to set a precedent. Not now.
If he doesn't take it to trial there will be no precedent set and the gray area will remain.
If this is true, do we really want them to fight it?
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: CosmicLion] #11990163 - 02/08/10 05:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
They said the same about Timothy Leary. He was taking chances giving LSD to regular folk. LSD should be kept in the hands of researchers and doctors.
Good thing he didn't listen.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Icelander said: They said the same about Timothy Leary. He was taking chances giving LSD to regular folk. LSD should be kept in the hands of researchers and doctors.
Good thing he didn't listen.
I for one don't see what tim did as a good thing. It gave the politicians ammunition, but thats just my opinion.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: danielx] #11990180 - 02/08/10 05:33 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
No LSD for you. Ever! That's what your opinion gets you.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
For the moment, nothing...but be prepared to pony up a few bucks (at the very least) once the defense fund is set up, and be prepared to stand up and be counted. Some well-organized opposition to the tyrannical, over-zealous and premature persecution of Mr. Sloan MUST be mounted. Like it or not, our side / view cannot afford to be silent on this one, folks.
If the defense is well-funded, articulate, and well prepared, and the government starts to feel their case is threatened or weakened by either technical mistakes or evidentiary issues, then they will fold, settle, reduce and/or drop charges. They may have bitten off more than they can chew here, and this is a case they cannot afford to lose...especially if it becomes high profile! Based upon what I have read thus far, the FDA has made some early, monumental mistakes.
For the record...I do not know Mr. Sloan...nor am I familiar with all the issues and debates over his method(s) of doing business, HOWEVER, I DO recognize what is at risk here, FOR BOTH SIDES...and it is a dangerous game our government is playing. I feel they have COMPLETELY underestimated the organizational powers of this and other cyberspace communities, and the opposition is going to be FURIOUS once what is at risk is better understood by this and other similar communities. The backlash could be (and I hope it WILL be) massive, no matter what you think of Mr. Sloan personally.
Lastly, this is NOT a time to be wasting taxpayer dollars, nor is there EVER a good time a time to be waging war on US citizenry...who are already mad as hell over the economy (the Dow closed below 10,00 today, folks!) and a shit-ton of other political tomfoolery. Don't forget...Sloan was EMPLOYING PEOPLE, and no doubt paying payroll and income tax. Think what you want about what he was doing for a living, but at least he was employing people, and probably paying them better and treating them better than Walmart!
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
"I dont know much about the issue, but if he fights it, and loses, will that set a legal precedent? Will that turn this grey market into something entirely illegal no matter what?
Alan said,
Quote:
2) I don't think we want him to fight this case. If he takes his case to trial and loses, the precedent will turn a large gray area into a solid black zone. If he was going to fight and win, he would have had his business in Arcata, California so half of the jury would be pot farmers. We don't want the case that sets the precedent with regards to the analogue act, MHRB and non-peyote mescaline cacti to be argued with a Kansas jury and a defendant that clearly knew he was selling tons of drugs.
If they pinch some old guy for growing san pedro, that would be the time to set a precedent. Not now.
If he doesn't take it to trial there will be no precedent set and the gray area will remain.
If this is true, do we really want them to fight it? "
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
I'm weary if this is a place to make our stand. I feel a charge against an individual for taking a psychedelic (entheogen) under a spiritual context would be more effective, no?
I'm open to hearing some proposals about how we could help this situation. There has to be something more than money? Perhaps thousands of letters about individual experiences with entheogens and how one incorporates them into a personal religious/spiritual/psychologically positive context - sent to the Kansas DA or whoever? Something like that has got to hit mainstream news (wishful thinking perhaps?). The Facebook group for "Support the Spiritual Use of Entheogens" has nearly 6000 thousand members who could be mobilized. Perhaps we could get MAPS involved too?
What do you all think?
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
Btw, does anyone have contact with Mr. Sloan and can get his input when everything cools down a bit?
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
Quote: FrenchMachine said: # of people who use Entheogens/Psychedelics = SMALL
# of people who use Alcohol/Pills/Tobacco/Meth/Crack/Coke/Etc = LARGE
Who do you think is going to win?
you would be suprised specially how much the two over lap. specially if you udnerstand that theres a huge vast massive sub culter that exists and it exists mainly off the grid
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Quote: c0sm0nautt said: Btw, does anyone have contact with Mr. Sloan and can get his input when everything cools down a bit?
It made me feel weird to get my package today and see his actual name on it. I don't know if his name has always been on the packages, or if I just now noticed because of this case and me seeing his name more often, but when it said John Sloan on it, I just said, "Damn..." and told my girl and my homegirl that that's the guy that got arrested.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: PsychedelicSpirit] #11990954 - 02/08/10 07:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
At least he doesn't seem to be a chickenshit. But I really know nothing about his operation or him personally.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Icelander said: At least he doesn't seem to be a chickenshit. But I really know nothing about his operation or him personally.
yeah i hear you. on that i cant say anything about him as a person. btw you opted out of a rating i like having mine the are so funny
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: thedudenj] #11991381 - 02/08/10 07:57 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Icelander said: over something that he did not break the law for.
you guys think thats ok? and that he deserved it?
It's always comical for me to see these enlightened psychonauts here acting just like some conservative redneck parent.
In their minds they are being holy holding an anti sacred substance for profit mindset
I repeat, my thoughts on the matter
Quote: the bizzle said: He brought it on himself, and I also think it's a pretty selfish and asinine thing to do to endanger the legality of sacred entheogens (I call them sacred because without them we are missing a part of life itself), by marketing them to high-seekers and selling them alongside products like K2. I always got a very commercial and greedy vibe from BBB
I'm not glad his freedom is in danger, but I am not happy that he has endangered many other freedoms by his seemingly greedy marketing tactics. Not that he is the only one, but there are vendors who are MUCH MUCH MUCH more discreet and who pose far less of a threat to our ability to obtain the plants we hold dear
I don't like seeing people go to jail, especially over stupid laws
and I have no problem with anybody trying to make an honestly living by selling botanicals and such
but it definitely doesn't help plants that are in a very grey area of the law, who are overlooked for not being such a large concern, when you market them as legal highs alongside increasingly popular recreational legal highs like K2 that attract the attention of law enforcement and lawmakers
for EXAMPLE's sake... how would do you think law enforcement would feel if they found mass production of aya plants alongside pounds of heroin and meth? Yes, the laws are unfair, fuck even marijuana should be legal, but you have to understand who you are dealing with, and therefore it is an ASSHOLE thing to do to sell these plants alongside bongs (like some headshops) and other things marketed directly as a recreational high
I wish him the best, but I also wish he didn't call into question our own freedoms, by trying to make a bigger buck.
-------------------- TheMushroomJesus said: "Doesnt that actually make the most sense? These are intelligent beings that are capable of creating anything, including what you call 'science'. And the suicide cults are a sacrifice to these intelligent beings."
"If any of you knew about Applewhite you would know that he represented JESUS..as we all do. He believed he and all of us were jesus to the point he would kill himself to get the message out...while your here..typing away pointless thoughts on a website pretending to make a difference, when in reality, you will never come close to making as much of a difference as even Applewhite."
H3rbal fire has seemed to be effected also. I ordered from them on 1/26/10 and they sent me half my order. I emailed them twice and the response was this...
Hello,
There was a police rain in our warehouse. They have stolen all the products from the warehouse, computers and stolen all the money from our bank account.
The story is really weird because all of our products are 100% legal.
We are about 5 days behind on orders. BUT... we are working very hard on it. We'll ship your order in few days. Thank you for your understaning and sorry for the delay because of our great government.
Have a great day, **** **** H[e]rbalFire.com
They're still gunna send me my salvia. Which is nice.
Quote: c0sm0nautt said: I'm weary if this is a place to make our stand....
I'm open to hearing some proposals about how we could help this situation. There has to be something more than money? Perhaps thousands of letters about individual experiences with entheogens and how one incorporates them into a personal religious/spiritual/psychologically positive context - sent to the Kansas DA or whoever?...
What do you all think?
Just take a look at how many people want to see this guy behind bars here at the Shroomery, do you think we are going to get the outside population to fight on his behalf?
I'm losing more and more of my hope for humanity. People say that psychedelics can expand your mind, but yesterday a 'cid head in the blotter thread called me a nigger.
Oh, and earlier somebody said that selling toads overpriced makes it more likely that they will be abused. Really? You think they are less likely to be taken care of if they were cheap? BTW, why should we prosecute him for crimes other people might commit? Should we arrest liquor store owners for drunk driving?
Quote: Nature Boy said: the opposition is going to be FURIOUS once what is at risk is better understood by this and other similar communities.
You really think that…?
I think that people would smoke a bowl, say "sad shit", and return to their little lives…
It is exactly why such substances are still illegal 40 years after the so-called psychedelic revolution. Because millions of users –though recognizing how great these substances are and how they have changed their life– don't give a shit and would not stand up for them.
I mean, how many are "we"? millions… what do we do, except debating over the internet?
-------------------- I would love a woodlover's print… PM If you have one and want to trade
Quote: c0sm0nautt said: I'm weary if this is a place to make our stand....
I'm open to hearing some proposals about how we could help this situation. There has to be something more than money? Perhaps thousands of letters about individual experiences with entheogens and how one incorporates them into a personal religious/spiritual/psychologically positive context - sent to the Kansas DA or whoever?...
What do you all think?
Just take a look at how many people want to see this guy behind bars here at the Shroomery, do you think we are going to get the outside population to fight on his behalf?
I'm losing more and more of my hope for humanity. People say that psychedelics can expand your mind, but yesterday a 'cid head in the blotter thread called me a nigger.
Oh, and earlier somebody said that selling toads overpriced makes it more likely that they will be abused. Really? You think they are less likely to be taken care of if they were cheap? BTW, why should we prosecute him for crimes other people might commit? Should we arrest liquor store owners for drunk driving?
an EXPENSIVE toad, on a drug site, marketed as a drug, is NOT going to receive the same quality of care as a regular toad from a regular pet shop. Not to mention how they get shipped in shoe boxes for 1000's of miles, and arrive with freaking missing LEGS...................
sure on average pets don't live very happy lives....but a pet that gets you high and sold as such is going to be very worse off in most cases.
and yes the high price to a certain extent doesn't help because it makes all the kids go....oo cool it must really get you tweeking if they want that much, and with missing legs its kinda obvious that extra money isn't going towards avoiding abuse.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Quote: makaveli8x8 said: an EXPENSIVE toad, on a drug site, marketed as a drug, is NOT going to receive the same quality of care as a regular toad from a regular pet shop. Not to mention how they get shipped in shoe boxes for 1000's of miles, and arrive with freaking missing LEGS...................
sure on average pets don't live very happy lives....but a pet that gets you high and sold as such is going to be very worse off in most cases.
and yes the high price to a certain extent doesn't help because it makes all the kids go....oo cool it must really get you tweeking if they want that much, and with missing legs its kinda obvious that extra money isn't going towards avoiding abuse.
I think you are jumping to conclusions. I think a lot of people take better care of their drugs than their own lives. I have a feeling some of the people spending tons on those toads treated them like kings.
That is really sad to think about them missing legs on delivery. Do we know that that happened, and that he didn't make an effort to satisfy his customers by changing shipment methods to send toads that arrive whole?
I wonder how many toads the pet stores have to throw away when the box of them arrives from Mexico.
And, not like it really needs debating, I don't believe that making them expensive causes people to purchase them more, or to purchase them for malicious reasons. I think that it makes people less likely to order it unless they really want it, and it also filters out people who would buy it but not be able to afford to take care of it. I think if they were cheaper I would probably have bought one right now, so I'm glad they were expensive.
Quote: makaveli8x8 said: an EXPENSIVE toad, on a drug site, marketed as a drug, is NOT going to receive the same quality of care as a regular toad from a regular pet shop. Not to mention how they get shipped in shoe boxes for 1000's of miles, and arrive with freaking missing LEGS...................
sure on average pets don't live very happy lives....but a pet that gets you high and sold as such is going to be very worse off in most cases.
and yes the high price to a certain extent doesn't help because it makes all the kids go....oo cool it must really get you tweeking if they want that much, and with missing legs its kinda obvious that extra money isn't going towards avoiding abuse.
I think you are jumping to conclusions. I think a lot of people take better care of their drugs than their own lives. I have a feeling some of the people spending tons on those toads treated them like kings.
That is really sad to think about them missing legs on delivery. Do we know that that happened, and that he didn't make an effort to satisfy his customers by changing shipment methods to send toads that arrive whole?
I wonder how many toads the pet stores have to throw away when the box of them arrives from Mexico.
And, not like it really needs debating, I don't believe that making them expensive causes people to purchase them more, or to purchase them for malicious reasons. I think that it makes people less likely to order it unless they really want it, and it also filters out people who would buy it but not be able to afford to take care of it. I think if they were cheaper I would probably have bought one right now, so I'm glad they were expensive.
Both arguments, mine and yours, are conjecture.
how many pet stores sell 2 legged frogs to customers?
what would make you think they changed anything?
and i guess your right looking at just price might be debateable, but when coupled with how its marketed i think its much less debateable.
licking frogs is something kids do. drug users have a reputation for doing stupid shit. drug users typically are on the lower income scale which means more work, less play, less money, to do shit right.
and from what i remember these frogs do not like being kept in captivity
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Join the crowd. Check out Diploids sig. and he's a fucking mod.
This place is full of neo con thinking. I'm amazed. Once many of these folk have kids then the anti drug stance will come out I predict.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Yeah right, and that's why he deserves to go to jail. Makes perfect sense.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
It hasn't been that long ago that BBB rescued toads from a farm where they were going to be killed. I didn't like the idea of selling the toads either until I checked it out, you don't neglect a pet you pay $250.00 for.
Quote: blackdust said: i disagree. That is narcissist thinking.
Quote: blackdust said: the people who usually take the narcissist view point are usually trying to make themselves feel superior. or have alternative motives.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Quote: blackdust said: i disagree. That is narcissist thinking.
Quote: blackdust said: the people who usually take the narcissist view point are usually trying to make themselves feel superior. or have alternative motives.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
yeah. i was trying to use the word as negative thinking. must be thinking of something else.
Narcissism describes the trait of excessive self-love, based on self-image or ego.
pessimist is the word I should have used....
pessimist is a person who expects the worst
-------------------- you read a book before you fuck!?
Quote: AntiEverything said: i got bunk cacti from BBB once.
Proof Sloan wasn't specifically intent on selling hallucinogenic plants!
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
Quote: danielx said: natureboy, can you respond to this:
"I dont know much about the issue, but if he fights it, and loses, will that set a legal precedent? Will that turn this grey market into something entirely illegal no matter what?
Quite possibly. That is my real concern. The government, of course, has its own set of concerns regarding precedent setting, too...so a lot is at stake, and unless settled, charges reduced or dropped, this could be an important case with meaningful legal ramifications on whatever DOES get litigated.
Quote: Alan said,
Quote:
2) I don't think we want him to fight this case. If he takes his case to trial and loses, the precedent will turn a large gray area into a solid black zone. We don't want the case that sets the precedent with regards to the analogue act, MHRB and non-peyote mescaline cacti to be argued with a Kansas jury and a defendant that clearly knew he was selling tons of drugs.
If they pinch some old guy for growing san pedro, that would be the time to set a precedent. Not now.
If he doesn't take it to trial there will be no precedent set and the gray area will remain.
If this is true, do we really want them to fight it? "
Well, the choice as to what charges will be brought, not dropped, and therefore need to be litigated will not be HIS!!! If the charges concerning the legality of natural items such as seeds, leaves, roots, plants, cacti has to be fought, it has to be WON, for all the above-cited reasons. If seeds, leaves, roots, plants and cacti become the equivalent of the scheduled drugs themselves...then that would represent a GIANT legal precedent and setback.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: blackdust] #11994318 - 02/09/10 09:00 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
San Pedro can be really hit or miss. You have to find a dealer who grows for potency. Then you have to prepare it correctly.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
I cant express how upset I am. To me: I liken this to a muslim having their mosque raided and burned to the ground, or a Christian their church. Bouncing Bears was my religious holy ground a place of peace, where our culture was finally getting to act freely within the law.
The straights just don't see it, its not just "doing drugs" or "being fucked up" its a way of life. To me, a door to perceiving this reality, and my own self for all its worth. to me these shamanic ethnobotanicals are more powerful then any god, or religion, or government, and a hell of a lot more meaningful.
This is just bullshit, if they had illegalized K2, Sloan would have pulled it from the shelves and stopped selling it! They prematurely raided his business. I hope he sues their ass and wins, but he wont because our legal system is corrupt.
-------------------- I feel like my body, is just a tent for my consciousness.
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: MoeRon said: from what i saw he's going to have a pretty good defense
best of luck bro
edit:
how the hell do they even have the right to search his business/arrest him?
in case people have forgotten there IS NOT RETROACTIVE LAW in America!! (Ex post facto law)
the bill isnt even law yet, I don't understand how its possible
THat's what I said. Its like Kansas wanted the law just to shut him down!! Of all 50 states why'd he have to live in Kansas? Move to Calfiornia or something!
I wonder if the cops spelled all the plant names wrong... if so thats another technicality that could turn this case over.
What do you guys think about Sloan's lawyers which states “These are remedies. These are items used in religious ceremonies that are legal, that can be put to illegal purposes,”
If he wasn't selling for consumption, should this have even been said? I don't know how they're planning to fight it, but I think this statement could negatively affect the entire defense.
-------------------- "Always aim at complete harmony of thought and word and deed. Always aim at purifying your thoughts and everything will be well." - Mahatma Gandhi
Quote: makaveli8x8 said: naw not me, but i read about it on here somewhere
Oh, well why didn't you tell use you read about it on here somewhere. It must be true!!!!
whats it matter if i said it or if someone else said it on here, it doesn't. the chances of it being true are exactly the same, which is highly likely. plus im pretty sure the dude who got this two legged toad happened to be one of those guys who actually did take care of it well and i think he even posted pictures but im to lazy to look up the specific's, thats just what i remember.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Quote: VictoriaPandora said: you don't neglect a pet you pay $250.00 for.
You'd be surprised how many spoiled 16 year old retards there are out there who don't think twice about dropping $250 on their new "pet."
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: c0sm0nautt] #11996280 - 02/09/10 02:13 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: CosmicLion said: He doesn't deserve to be in jail but he was asking for it...
He had a link on the top of BBB's Website that said "Forums" that took you directly to DancingBear forums where people talking preparations, extractions and experiences. Retarded!
He should have opened up an unaffiliated movie making company to make Manifesting the Mind. Instead he opened Bouncing Bear Films that promotes, on his store website, a DVD about ingesting shamanic plants and advertised as "Everything you could ever want to know about psychedelics!"
Real smart for someone running an herb store for herbs used as incense & paint.
CosmicLion, I sure appreciate your sentiments. A mistake to open a public forum which honors the principles of free speech and freedom? Perhaps....
Let me suggest something else. Bouncing Bear was not just a botanical shop. It was and is an organization based on freedom, liberty, openness and more.
The DancingBear forums "might" have been a cause of the illegal raid on the business. But, if we never push back, never take a chance, never give voice to the pursuits of liberty and justice... then what are we doing here? All we are are hollow words. We are just shallow scared souls that like to harp and bitch -- bitch about the OTHER guy -- but we never do the scary tasks that really create change.
What if everyone sat on their hands and never created open forums where people can talk freely? What if no one ever took a risk? What if we never gambled and chose to sacrifice our own freedoms in order that others can be free? I hate to think of it.
Yes, those DancingBear forums "might" have helped the Feds to illegally raid that business... but I'm proud that BBB took that risk.
Jon Sloan is paying the price for that gamble. He is paying with his money, his family, his life. And he did that in the name of freedom. The same freedom that he demands that you receive because of his bravery.
People that criticize Jon for taking risks in the name of freedom don't understand what is at stake. He risk HIS freedom so that you can have YOUR freedom.
Nothing but respect should be shown toward a young man like that, willing to sacrifice himself for a just cause.
I'm Jon's dad. I know him. He is no dummy. I myself was in on the DancingBear decision. I helped propel it forward in the pursuit of freedom for all of us.
When someone else is willing to take that risk, and pay the price (which Jon is paying now), then, and only then do they have the right to criticize the man who did the dead, who bled the blood, who suffered the pain... so that in the end everyone can be free.
Only the cowardly critique the brave man who does what the rest are afraid to do.
God help us if we throw wordy stones at the brave men who sacrafice so the rest of us can be free.
Well, because you are on the inside, is there anything we can do to help the situation?
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
Quote: CosmicLion said: He doesn't deserve to be in jail but he was asking for it...
He had a link on the top of BBB's Website that said "Forums" that took you directly to DancingBear forums where people talking preparations, extractions and experiences. Retarded!
He should have opened up an unaffiliated movie making company to make Manifesting the Mind. Instead he opened Bouncing Bear Films that promotes, on his store website, a DVD about ingesting shamanic plants and advertised as "Everything you could ever want to know about psychedelics!"
Real smart for someone running an herb store for herbs used as incense & paint.
CosmicLion, I sure appreciate your sentiments. A mistake to open a public forum which honors the principles of free speech and freedom? Perhaps....
Let me suggest something else. Bouncing Bear was not just a botanical shop. It was and is an organization based on freedom, liberty, openness and more.
The DancingBear forums "might" have been a cause of the illegal raid on the business. But, if we never push back, never take a chance, never give voice to the pursuits of liberty and justice... then what are we doing here? All we are are hollow words. We are just shallow scared souls that like to harp and bitch -- bitch about the OTHER guy -- but we never do the scary tasks that really create change.
What if everyone sat on their hands and never created open forums where people can talk freely? What if no one ever took a risk? What if we never gambled and chose to sacrifice our own freedoms in order that others can be free? I hate to think of it.
Yes, those DancingBear forums "might" have helped the Feds to illegally raid that business... but I'm proud that BBB took that risk.
Jon Sloan is paying the price for that gamble. He is paying with his money, his family, his life. And he did that in the name of freedom. The same freedom that he demands that you receive because of his bravery.
People that criticize Jon for taking risks in the name of freedom don't understand what is at stake. He risk HIS freedom so that you can have YOUR freedom.
Nothing but respect should be shown toward a young man like that, willing to sacrifice himself for a just cause.
I'm Jon's dad. I know him. He is no dummy. I myself was in on the DancingBear decision. I helped propel it forward in the pursuit of freedom for all of us.
When someone else is willing to take that risk, and pay the price (which Jon is paying now), then, and only then do they have the right to criticize the man who did the dead, who bled the blood, who suffered the pain... so that in the end everyone can be free.
Only the cowardly critique the brave man who does what the rest are afraid to do.
God help us if we throw wordy stones at the brave men who sacrafice so the rest of us can be free.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
i say don't expect any help from any of these ppl who are bashing BBB now that they are in trouble...when you are in trouble. because, of course, unless you make dumb human mistakes, the Feds never hit you. . . and thus if you did make dumb human mistakes, you aren't worthy of empathy or assistance in your time of need.
for those who have decided he earned it, deserved it, wasn't cautious enough...what the fuck?
is this Dad time and we lecture him about his bad choices and leave him in jail to "teach him a lesson"?
Or is this a community of adults who realize that the system is the villain and what is done to one of us can be done to any of us. they just work their way down from here if they get what they want.
FFS ppl wake up...this is really and us and them situation.
i will take it very slow for the special students.
The cops, of any sort, the judges, the feds, the system: THAT is our enemy and they spend no time ever being distracted from that fact. . . as you all easily are.
NO ONE, not your worst enemy, not the guy your old lady picked as Sancho, not your ex, nobody deserves to be tossed to these wolves. this guy is not only on our side, he is one of us.
who here hasn't had one of those, "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time, honey." moments?
come on folks. what the fuck?
-------------------- if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.
If it's that easy then how come it's all still illegal.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Yea I have no problem with cops. Sure I disagree with some of the laws they enforce, but I agree with the majority of them. I'd rather deal with the few laws I disagree with than live in a complete anarchy...
Quote: TheGuy said, in part: People that criticize Jon for taking risks in the name of freedom don't understand what is at stake. He risk HIS freedom so that you can have YOUR freedom.
Nothing but respect should be shown toward a young man like that, willing to sacrifice himself for a just cause.
I'm Jon's dad. I know him. He is no dummy. I myself was in on the DancingBear decision. I helped propel it forward in the pursuit of freedom for all of us.
When someone else is willing to take that risk, and pay the price (which Jon is paying now), then, and only then do they have the right to criticize the man who did the dead, who bled the blood, who suffered the pain... so that in the end everyone can be free.
Only the cowardly critique the brave man who does what the rest are afraid to do.
God help us if we throw wordy stones at the brave men who sacrafice so the rest of us can be free.
First of all: Five shrooms for you, Mr. S, for sticking by your son in his time of need with these powerful words.
When you establish the defense fund, mine will be the first $250.00. If I'm lying...you can post it here. $250 bucks of my hard-earned pay to get it started off right.
Let me know when and where to send it. Its yours. Use the PM function to send me a private message if that is what makes you comfortable.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
Quote: Doc_T said: Not my enemy. I have no beef with cops or with the system. Don't like the system? Vote in a new one.
It's honestly that easy.
No, it is not. We cannot even necessarily vote for a new president. Al Gore lost to George Bush despite having more votes, thanks to a system of the electorate. The system is designed to politically disable individuals.
Quote: Tangerines said: Wait a minute. Why should be believe that TheGuy is actually dudes father???
From his presence over at BBB forum, plus Veggie said he'd be posting here... But, yeah, your point is well taken.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
sure would have been a lot better for everyone if he'd been based in Anchorage or Seattle...
while i'm wishing.
no criticism, just the natural thought progression from...i'm from Texas, and even we think Kansas and the KBI are kinda scary.
i'm sure there is a good reason, or as i said before, what seemed like a good enough reason at the time.
with hindsight, sitting in our monday morning quarterbacking chair, it is very easy to point to alternate choices, but as always - that has no validity because it doesn't look the same way forwards as backwards. now that seems obvious, does it not?
the sciences, basic research, AIDS research and management funding, health care, N. Korea with a fucking fruitcake with a capital Extra Nuts w/ mine please and a friggin nuke on top. o and make that with a side of missiles that will reach the west coast of the US. thanks.
oh where was i ...ah, shit that we are ignoring to worry about if the two lesbians down the street can get deathbed privileges and civil union rights and what ppl do behind closed doors that harms no one but themselves whether it is to get high or be gay and in the military.
now is it just me or are they all arguing about the wrong things?
where is my representation?
-------------------- if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.
Quote: TheGuy said: I'm Jon's dad. I know him. He is no dummy. I myself was in on the DancingBear decision. I helped propel it forward in the pursuit of freedom for all of us.
Let me start off by saying I mean no disrespect to you guys, I love yall. I've been a customer for all sorts of herbs for 5 years now. I remember first getting into ethnobotanicals... how my face would light up with some fresh, awesome BBB Pedro cuttings coming out of the box with a half-dozen mixed bags of unexplored horizons only to be added to by the free bonus sample of something I hadn't heard of.
I remember once you guys sent me a bunch of catalogs. I was always having new people over showing them the pictures and the herbs and their uses and seeing people change as they slowly explored the world of Medicine.
You have the strongest salvia in ALL the land…. I have gotten countless people with your Standardized 10x and blew them into realms they never even fathomed.
I remember feeling connected to all of you during ceremonies I've had for all the work you do and risk you take to help spread the plants. This is why it sucks so bad to see it end like this.
Quote: TheGuy said: Let me suggest something else. Bouncing Bear was not just a botanical shop. It was and is an organization based on freedom, liberty, openness and more.
Indeed it was... and it was just by doing as it did. The fact you existed freely and distributed as widely and uninterrupted as you did was a miracle in and of itself. It was smooth sailing under the radar completely within the realm of the law. No need to make it grey.
Quote: TheGuy said: A mistake to open a public forum which honors the principles of free speech and freedom?
Definitely not, just not one that directly links illegal use of your barely legal products.
Quote: TheGuy said: The DancingBear forums "might" have been a cause of the illegal raid on the business. But, if we never push back, never take a chance, never give voice to the pursuits of liberty and justice... then what are we doing here? All we are are hollow words. We are just shallow scared souls that like to harp and bitch -- bitch about the OTHER guy -- but we never do the scary tasks that really create change.
Shallow scared souls? Who do you think is ordering all your products and using them? It's either people ballsy enough to ingest or repeatedly ingest some of the strongest substances on the planet or people who take the severe risk of extracting large amounts and giving it away to large groups people while distributing the enlightening experiences to the masses. What about the people who make this stuff available at festivals and other large events to turn people on to the other side? This is the REAL risk. THESE are the people on the street with the 'drugs' in consumable form. BBB had a clear path to longevity and profits staying strictly within the realms of the law while providing a means for the Light to reach an extraordinary amount of people all over the world. If because of this these plants become illegal, there will be a devastating end to the circulation and accessibility of these compounds as we know it.
Quote: TheGuy said: What if everyone sat on their hands and never created open forums where people can talk freely? What if no one ever took a risk? What if we never gambled and chose to sacrifice our own freedoms in order that others can be free? I hate to think of it.
You mean like the Shroomery? or Mycotopia? or the other handful of active drug sites that readily talk about all these things daily with searchabe archived information? Come on... There is an established order of ownership liability that is inherent throughout the internet underground. The site owners have sponsors who just pay for advertising, no direct affiliation with the owner. You don't see Shroomery selling mushroom spores. The fact is to even compete with such radically established communities, of which you were sponsored on, is beyond logical reason in terms of trying to offer something beneficial. What it narrows down to is that you wanted it associated with the website for your own store to further ENHANCE YOUR OWN IMAGE.
Quote: TheGuy said: Yes, those DancingBear forums "might" have helped the Feds to illegally raid that business... but I'm proud that BBB took that risk.
Proud that BBB has put the entire freedom of ethnobotanicals on the line? All so people could click from a link in YOUR STORE instead of going to google and typing "how to prepare Ayahuasca"? That sounds pretty selfish. It wasn't your place to play the beacon of partial illegality. It was your place to be a safe, secure, profitable wholesaler of semi-illegal goods who because of that nature went out of their way to stay far from anything that could get you, your customers or your industry in trouble.
Quote: TheGuy said: Jon Sloan is paying the price for that gamble. He is paying with his money, his family, his life. And he did that in the name of freedom. The same freedom that he demands that you receive because of his bravery.
People that criticize Jon for taking risks in the name of freedom don't understand what is at stake. He risk HIS freedom so that you can have YOUR freedom.
The people that say Jon deserves to be in jail are out of their mind. Jon is a Hero. This should definitely not be happening to his family. All over supplying US with plants. Bouncing Bear Botanicals is THE name. When you move that kind of volume from a product in a specialized industry your source is not going to be stabilized, its impossible without mass commercialization. Batches of unpotent goods are just part of the game. Without BBB as the base there would have been no standard for all the other shops to compete with.
Quote: TheGuy said: Nothing but respect should be shown toward a young man like that, willing to sacrifice himself for a just cause.
When someone else is willing to take that risk, and pay the price (which Jon is paying now), then, and only then do they have the right to criticize the man who did the dead, who bled the blood, who suffered the pain... so that in the end everyone can be free.
Only the cowardly critique the brave man who does what the rest are afraid to do.
God help us if we throw wordy stones at the brave men who sacrifice so the rest of us can be free.
People are going to voice their opinion when they feel wronged. Jon is a great man, I can only imagine what kind of man he must be to dedicate his life to spreading these plants. He must have a true connection to something many of us will never understand. He had his vision, he made it come true. That doesn't mean that people can't be upset when they feel he crossed the line and put them at risk.
I wish the best for him and will gladly donate to his fund. I owe him who I am today as a person. Through him and his store I have seen many dozens of lives completely changed for the better. To say he was completely motivated by greed is naive. Someone as smart as Jon could have easily found some other way to make money. The man had a passion for what he did and may have made some decisions that weren't the best but deserves compassion, support and understanding from everyone.
Quote: CosmicLion said: He doesn't deserve to be in jail but he was asking for it...
He had a link on the top of BBB's Website that said "Forums" that took you directly to DancingBear forums where people talking preparations, extractions and experiences. Retarded!
He should have opened up an unaffiliated movie making company to make Manifesting the Mind. Instead he opened Bouncing Bear Films that promotes, on his store website, a DVD about ingesting shamanic plants and advertised as "Everything you could ever want to know about psychedelics!"
Real smart for someone running an herb store for herbs used as incense & paint.
CosmicLion, I sure appreciate your sentiments. A mistake to open a public forum which honors the principles of free speech and freedom? Perhaps....
Let me suggest something else. Bouncing Bear was not just a botanical shop. It was and is an organization based on freedom, liberty, openness and more.
The DancingBear forums "might" have been a cause of the illegal raid on the business. But, if we never push back, never take a chance, never give voice to the pursuits of liberty and justice... then what are we doing here? All we are are hollow words. We are just shallow scared souls that like to harp and bitch -- bitch about the OTHER guy -- but we never do the scary tasks that really create change.
What if everyone sat on their hands and never created open forums where people can talk freely? What if no one ever took a risk? What if we never gambled and chose to sacrifice our own freedoms in order that others can be free? I hate to think of it.
Yes, those DancingBear forums "might" have helped the Feds to illegally raid that business... but I'm proud that BBB took that risk.
Jon Sloan is paying the price for that gamble. He is paying with his money, his family, his life. And he did that in the name of freedom. The same freedom that he demands that you receive because of his bravery.
People that criticize Jon for taking risks in the name of freedom don't understand what is at stake. He risk HIS freedom so that you can have YOUR freedom.
Nothing but respect should be shown toward a young man like that, willing to sacrifice himself for a just cause.
I'm Jon's dad. I know him. He is no dummy. I myself was in on the DancingBear decision. I helped propel it forward in the pursuit of freedom for all of us.
When someone else is willing to take that risk, and pay the price (which Jon is paying now), then, and only then do they have the right to criticize the man who did the dead, who bled the blood, who suffered the pain... so that in the end everyone can be free.
Only the cowardly critique the brave man who does what the rest are afraid to do.
God help us if we throw wordy stones at the brave men who sacrafice so the rest of us can be free.
This -- TheGuy's words above -- needs to be read over and over again, by all of us who support the principles of freedom. Jon Sloan not only agreed with those principles, but defended them with action in the face of one of history's most repressive and long-standing traditions, that of persecuting the herbalists, healers, alchemists, witches and druids, which in the West dates back to the Roman era, when divinity was first stripped from nature and pagan traditions made punishable. With the example of two millennia of brave men and women burned, tortured and imprisoned by the anti-spiritual, anti-pschedelic movement, Sloan was brave enough to stand up and test the waters in the modern world. It turns out that the ruling hegemony is still mentally, spiritually and ethically ruling from the dark ages, and the price of our collective cruelty and immaturity as a society is that a good man has been stripped of his family and freedom, and we have lost a leader.
The above words of his father need to be seen especially by those who profess to champion freedom in the halls of power, people like Obama, if there is any way that it could be brought before his eyes. Whatever his view on psychedelics, he would have a hard time denying this police-state action for what it is, an abuse of our rights to freedom, and the just application of laws.
This should never have happened, and my condolences go out to Jon Sloan, his family, and all those who knew him, and also those -- all of us -- who now live in a more restricted, intolerant and plutocratic world. Thank you to Jon, to Jon's father, and to anyone doing anything to help in the defence of a hero behind bars.
if he broke the law then how would pleading guilty set the wrong precedent?
we've seen the list they have on him, im sure one of them will stick. we honestly don't know what that guy was all up to.
and didn't i hear that the FDA was involved? i think that interesting twist means they have quite a few angles to cover, and that he really doesn't stand much of a chance.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Nobody stands a chance against US gov if they want to get you.
Quote: makaveli8x8 said: if he broke the law then how would pleading guilty set the wrong precedent?
Whether or not he broke the law is still up for debate here. If he pleads guilty, then that means what they busted him for is legitimate; then they can go and do the same to other ethnobot vendors, with precedent.
Looking at that posted list of offenses, there is no way he did each of those things, from a reasonable point of view.
-------------------- "Now ether was substituted for chloroform, and the difference of their phenomena noted, and now some other exhilarant, in the form of an opiate or stimulant, was the instrument of my experiments, until I had run through the whole gamut of queer agents within my reach..." I can do everything!!
Quote: Necco said: I've noticed this thread has started leaning towards a more sensible standpoint.
Yeah, at least 4 posts without irrelevant stupid complains about "bunk cuttings" or "poor toads"
Quote: Necco said: Looking at that posted list of offenses, there is no way he did each of those things, from a reasonable point of view.
My understanding after reading the more legally oriented thread on aya forums, is they could/will insist on the intent… that makes the difference between garden-shops selling San Pedro and ethnobotanics vendors
-------------------- I would love a woodlover's print… PM If you have one and want to trade
Quote: Necco said: Nobody stands a chance against US gov if they want to get you.
Quote: makaveli8x8 said: if he broke the law then how would pleading guilty set the wrong precedent?
Whether or not he broke the law is still up for debate here. If he pleads guilty, then that means what they busted him for is legitimate; then they can go and do the same to other ethnobot vendors, with precedent.
Looking at that posted list of offenses, there is no way he did each of those things, from a reasonable point of view.
someone else was saying if he pleaded guilty then it wouldn't sent a precedent, and that only if he fought...which would take it to trial, only then it would set a precedent.
and far as im concerned, and im sure the law as well, he already did break the law. He KNEW what his customers were doing beyond a shadow of a doubt, he sold them for psychedelic purposes...he intended for his customers to consume them.
from that point of view i feel its a open and closed book.
the products he sold are legal, but only if they arn't used for drug purposes, which they were and he knew they were, and he sold them as such, AND he helped people past sales. towards consuming them for drug purposes.
he BROKE the law. and now him and neosoup have succeeded in most likely changing the law...for the worse...because they just HAD to act like stupid pot heads and abuse shit like in those "truth commercials". backing him up only helps to support the stupid pothead image which should be the last thing you want to do.
nobody would have gave a dam if they would have kept it on the down low...he decided to rub it in everyone's faces...wtf did he expect? maybe neosoup finally achieved her ultimate goal
and the people siding with him, only make things worse, cuss its all bout those drugs man
alot of the stuff he sold were beautiful completely without the "drug" aspect to them. he disrespected those plants, helping to make them illegal, and now your standing up for him? what happened to karma?
by time its all said and done obama could stimulate the economy by creating yet another taskforce, designed to lawn mow the entire state of texes and where ever else san pedro and other lovely plants happen to grow potentially completely wiping them out overtime turning them extinct.
and you want to support the person who's about to start the gravy train on adding more plants to the hitlist?
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Quote: . If he pleads guilty, then that means what they busted him for is legitimate; then they can go and do the same to other ethnobot vendors, with precedent.
Pleading guilty / striking a plea bargain doesn't set a legal precedent. Going to trial does.
If he goes to trial I have no idea what the consequences are. I am not sure if its a state or a federal thing.
It is really cool to see Jon's father posting here. He makes a lot of good points and clearly both Jon and his dad are true freedom fighters.
Pleading guilty / striking a plea bargain doesn't set a legal precedent. Going to trial does.
True. The terms of the plea bargain can (and should) include no admission of wrongdoing. Its basically a settlement reached because each side recognizes the weaknesses and strengths of its own case and have their respective concerns about proceeding to trial, and practical matters such as cost, case load, mishandled evidence, lost evidence, technical errors and mistakes, etc., etc., etc.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
If this is TRULY GOING TO BE PURSUED with these charges to the fullest extent of the law, why are they acting this way? All of the local news reports state that the raid was for the K2. The FDA came to confiscate it. The LOCAL AUTHORITIES pressed charges for the plants. 700 pounds of "DMT", 3,600 "mescaline" cuttings. This "should" be the biggest psychedelic bust since the last pool Neurosoup shat in. (LSD)
So, Where was/is the DEA? Perhaps they realized that this is not the time to go after EVERY CITIZEN WHO HAS A CONNECTION TO THESE PLANTS. Maybe they figured, this is going to be a tough one, its not cut and dry.
Think about the charges here. The K2 was not illegal. The FDA's involvement ends here as far as I'm concerned. They came to confiscate the K2 and they did. Sloan never was nor will be charged for it. It appears as if the state piggy-backed onto the raid.
Some things we need to find out, though we probably won't:
What was the warrant? For the FDA to come and get K2, I assume. How was it amended, WAS IT amended, to include the cacti and other plants?
Did they assume that these things were illegal because of the association of a semi-legal product (K2?) and thus take them?
Are they asking themselves these types of questions right now? (Are we in over our heads here?)
Were all of the products stolen from the shops on a list of items to be siezed with the power of the warrant? Where did this authority come from? How did the case jump from the FDA coming to get some K2, as is common place apparently, to what would be construed as the largest psychedelic bust in recent history.
Where is the DEA? How can they sit on the sidelines on this, if they knew they had the legal authority here. My thoughts, they wouldn't. They would hop-on-pop for a chance to scream, "2 tons of psychedelics confiscated from Kansas State shop." They haven't yet and the news doesn't want to get into the details here about the REAL issue. Doesn't that tell you something?
[Re: original post] This sucks, but only yesterday I was discussing with a friend that it's the profiteers who will get done. Then I find this today...uncanny!
It confirms to me that sacred substances must be treated with respect.
That said, this also sums things up nicely for me:
Quote:
Puma said: I will close this message of lamentation for a persecuted hero with this quotation, from Terrence McKenna's essay "Plan, Plant, Planet" in which he points out that the consciousness reached through entheogens is what we need to guide this ailing planet and our society towards a better future.
"The process begins by declaring legitimate what we have denied for so long. Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."
i would say they came for the K2 from the other place found their supplier looked into the supplier looked into their top products and all the customer reports or something like that so went for it too. whats to say they didnt actually have extraction in process
Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine (DMT) - Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Mescaline - Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide - Unlawful possession of certain drug precursors and drug paraphernalia: Plastic jugs and filters used or intended for unlawful use to manufacture, cultivate, plant propagate, harvest, test, analyze or distribute a controlled substance.
verus just
- Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Mescaline - Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine; Chacruna; Illinois Bundleflower; Epena; Cebil Seeds. - Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Bufotenine, Epena, Chaliponga, Cebil Seeds, Colorado River Toads. - Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide, Morning Glory Seeds, Rivea Corymbosa.
you guys are acting like his charges were just cultivation and distrubtion there must be a reason they say.
obiously K2 isnt the charge but they could of just used that in a similar way they have when they have a known drug dealer no good reason to search him, but pull him over for being in the passing lane, then say we smell cannabis then bam oh we found these other drugs not cannabis but ...
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
This case is probably going to end with mescaline and DMT completely disappearing from the gray market and being significantly wiped from the black market.
Quote: laotzo said: The cops, of any sort, the judges, the feds, the system: THAT is our enemy
Not my enemy. I have no beef with cops or with the system. Don't like the system? Vote in a new one.
It's honestly that easy.
Crap. If voting changed anything that would be illegal too.
-------------------- Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.
All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: Mr E Guest] #12000828 - 02/10/10 07:57 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)
Quote: Mr E Guest said: [Re: original post] This sucks, but only yesterday I was discussing with a friend that it's the profiteers who will get done. Then I find this today...uncanny!
It confirms to me that sacred substances must be treated with respect.
Everything is sacred imo and so no profit should be made selling anything. Does that logic work for you? Nobody goes into this as a business without profiting or wanting to. Don't kid yourself.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Society said: This case is probably going to end with mescaline and DMT completely disappearing from the gray market and being significantly wiped from the black market.
All because BBB wanted to "push freedom to the edge" and open up their own drug forum, against better judgment.
Yea that's the way to get "peace and love" to everyone....
Then based on that we should shut down the Shroomery for blatantly pushing a drug agenda and talking openly about usage.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Mr E Guest said: [Re: original post] This sucks, but only yesterday I was discussing with a friend that it's the profiteers who will get done. Then I find this today...uncanny!
It confirms to me that sacred substances must be treated with respect.
Everything is sacred imo and so no profit should be made selling anything. Does that logic work for you? Nobody goes into this as a business without profiting or wanting to. Don't kid yourself.
There's a difference between making a living ("profit"?)and profiteering. This is an interesting case. The Inquisition still exists.
Everything may be sacred but some things are more sacred than others...
"It confirms to me" - you can think whatever you like. Your "logic" is based on the false premise that everything can be sacred. Look into the etymology of the word "sacred" before getting back to me on this.
-------------------- Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.
All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.
Quote: Society said: This case is probably going to end with mescaline and DMT completely disappearing from the gray market and being significantly wiped from the black market.
All because BBB wanted to "push freedom to the edge" and open up their own drug forum, against better judgment.
Yea that's the way to get "peace and love" to everyone....
Even is this comes to be the case, DMT is so widespread there's no way to put the genie back in the bottle. We'll just have to do a bit more homework, which incidentally what I've been doing for the past 20 years or so. But not the stuff they set for me at school, you understand.
-------------------- Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.
All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.
Everything may be sacred but some things are more sacred than others...
And of course you get to decide what that is. Some believe these drugs are anything but.
Your "logic" is based on the false premise that everything can be sacred.
If my logic is based on false premise then your above quote is based in ignoring what you know to be true. You can't have it both ways and be "logical" about this.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
How can they charge somebody with having plants and animals? especially when the disclaimer states that all of the products are "Not for human consumption" ????? WWWWWHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!!!!!!!!!!!!! *explodes*
Quote: Icelander said: Everything may be sacred but some things are more sacred than others...
And of course you get to decide what that is. Some believe these drugs are anything but.
Patently. I think that's what this thread is about.
Quote: Your "logic" is based on the false premise that everything can be sacred.
If my logic is based on false premise then your above quote is based in ignoring what you know to be true. You can't have it both ways and be "logical" about this.
Sorry, which quote? What do I "know to be true"?
Do your flies up, we can see your penis. Edited for decency
Edited by Mr E Guest (02/10/10 09:44 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: Mr E Guest] #12001377 - 02/10/10 09:46 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)
I think this threads about if the govt should have the right to tell you what you can do with your own body and mind.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Quote: Icelander said: Then based on that we should shut down the Shroomery for blatantly pushing a drug agenda and talking openly about usage.
If the Shroomery sold spores then they would be shut down.
There is a difference between having a place of free speech and directly promoting illegal use of your borderline legal products.
Based on your argument every hydroponic store owner in every conservative state should hold Cannabis Cultivation Conventions every weekend in their warehouse to promote free speech. Even though they have to STRICTLY state their products are not for illegal use. Yea right! They would get shut down in an instant.
When you claim, for a legal reason, that a product is for an intended legal use you can't publicly endorse its use for illegal reasons.
This has NOTHING to do with free speech, the Shroomery or drug websites existing as a whole. It has to do with simple business legality.
Tying speech to your action is essential in maintaining a functioning business and to do so "freely" without regard for consequence is to openly put your own business up for gamble. Don't cry when the house wins.
Look I'm not invested in this either way frankly. My interest has been in those folks that say someone deserves to be in jail for selling substances that they themselves state should never be illegal.
That's the bottom line in my POV. It's really being hypocritical and frankly I think it shows a mind set that will turn finally conservative and anti drug when these "psychonauts" turn into their thirties. Just like what happened back in my day.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Yes. You certainly caught me out there! Please forgive me, I normally use heiroglyphics but I haven't found a babelfish translator for that yet.
Quote: we can see your penis. Not hard to miss.
And very nice it is too. Is it from the vatican collection?
Quote: I think this threads about if the govt should have the right to tell you what you can do with your own body and mind.
Thankfully it's not my government in question here, but the one in my area isn't much better. I can think of at least one ethnobot vendor busted over here for something similar (the cacti, not 'K2') in the past couple of years. I think governments tend to feel threatened by consciousness-expanding materials. They will then react with disproportionate force against those who strive to make them too readily available. This present example is only one of the most recent in the history of the suppression of mind-altering sacrements. It seems once civilisations started to happen - Central and South America notwithstanding, perhaps - visionary plant usage tended to become more shrouded in secrecy. And before that the evidence is scanty to say the least.
Based on the evidence of my own experience, I'm not in the least bit surprised any more that governments want to keep visionary substances out of the hands/minds of the masses. That doesn't mean I agree with being told what I can and can't do in this respect, however.
-------------------- Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.
All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.
consider this: Holding a live animal in captivity for the purpose of getting high is a pretty fucked up situation honestly. so don't be so quick to point out that you cant outlaw plants or animals. its for their safety and its shameful to think that's why BBB sold them.
(bufotoad)
-------------------- Currently Reading: Rotting Hill - Wyndham Lewis
Quote: AntiEverything said: Holding a live animal in captivity for the purpose of getting high is a pretty fucked up situation honestly.
Growing weed for the purpose of getting high is different how? Somehow people think its okay to captivate some organisms for recreational drug use and not others? Seems like you should chose one way or another, not just chose based on what you think is worthy of being "fucked up."
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
huh, last time i checked there was a difference in a plant and an animal.
are you cool with breeding dogs for food j/c
animals are aware of what is happening where as a plant is not. seems destructive and anti natural to force a conscious being out of its habit to be sold into drug slavery
-------------------- Currently Reading: Rotting Hill - Wyndham Lewis
Quote: AntiEverything said: animals are aware of what is happening where as a plant is not.
I disagree. It seems as if plants are just as 'alive' as an animal. Have you ever seen trees in a forest competing for the most direct sunlight? You don't think they know whats going on?
Edited by Cognitive_Shift (02/10/10 02:45 PM)
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Icelander
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Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: AntiEverything] #12003330 - 02/10/10 02:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
Quote: AntiEverything said: consider this: Holding a live animal in captivity for the purpose of getting high is a pretty fucked up situation honestly. so don't be so quick to point out that you cant outlaw plants or animals. its for their safety and its shameful to think that's why BBB sold them.
(bufotoad)
How about holding an animal in captivity so you can slaughter it and then eat it? Or hold it so you can steal it's eggs or milk?
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Hell yea I am for eating dogs but sadly it is not socially acceptable in this country.
Why'd you choose dogs though I am curious? As opposed to cows, pigs, or chickens? It seems you hold the same mentality that prevents me from having steady access to dog and horse meat.
I read a bunch of posts but didn't see any mention of JLF who also sold these gray area products and was convicted, that case didn't set any precedent.
I've heard this poor argument so many times it now strikes me with nausea. What makes us stay? Plenty.
I'm not allowed to leave the country for more than 6-12 months without being forced to return. I am not allowed to be employed in most other countries. Some countries the US doesn't allow me to travel to.
Also, I don't speak the language or have the capability to function well as a contributing member of many foreign civilizations, even if I did manage to be accepted as a resident.
Just because we are in a country doesn't mean we don't have the right to criticize it. Many, most, of us are stuck here.
Quote: Freedom said: I read a bunch of posts but didn't see any mention of JLF who also sold these gray area products and was convicted, that case didn't set any precedent.
Yeah, it does seem possible that this area could just remain gray. It will just remind people that it IS possible to get prosecuted for it, but it won't automatically happen.
Quote: AntiEverything said: are you cool with breeding dogs for food j/c
Yup. Dog, cat, dolphin. If it's meat..... eat it.
-------------------- “In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
-----------------------------------
A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
-----------------------------------
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: luvdemshrooms] #12003751 - 02/10/10 03:47 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Pray you're never in a plane crash or shipwreck with me on board. You can bet your ass I'd cook you up if I got hungry enough.
Where many would be squeamish, I'd be a survivor.
-------------------- “In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
-----------------------------------
A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
Pray you're never in a plane crash or shipwreck with me on board. You can bet your ass I'd cook you up if I got hungry enough.
Where many would be squeamish, I'd be a survivor.
Same here. I did enough survival training to get over any squeamish feelings about eating strange things. Don't turn your back "friend".
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Yeah, he could go to Iraq, Afghanistan, Viet Nam, El Salvador, Colombia, Cuba... and quickly find even more good reason to say "fuck the USA". I once met and interviewed the sole survivor of the El Mozote Massacre in El Salvador in which soldiers trained by the US Army slaughtered over a thousand men and women and speared babies with bayonets. I think we need at all costs to protect the right to criticize our countries, and to imply that 5HTSynaptrip was wrong to use strong language against the USA (I take it he was referring the establishment, those in power whose hands are so stained with blood) is to excuse their abuses of power.
I would suggest that it is one's duty to society to criticize the government when criticism is deserved. The original reason for the right to bear arms, after all, is to protect society from oppression by presenting a threat of uprising to tyrannical governments who might otherwise abuse power if the citizens were merely compliant sheep. There is always pressure on those power to become corrupt, and positions of power attract people who are chronically unable to resist that temptation -- so when power from above becomes tyrannical, it signifies that not enough vigilant resistance is rising up from the grass roots. The main weapons of the state are the pacifying forces of mind-control media, as they dull the biggest threat to their power -- the collective intelligence they seek to control. Of course, BBB was selling "mind expanding" drugs, so their real crime being punished now was their role of counteracting the mental offensive being taken against us all by the dominators.
Fuck them, I say. And I think 5HTSynaptrip should say it again, and again, until others chime in, and change what's so blatantly fucked with it.
PS DocT I don't mean to come down hard on you. It's natural that you should love your own country, it's well worth loving, and that is why it's so important to steer it from tyranny.
That asset forfeiture shit is fucked up, I'm disgusted with the reality of it. I hope he gets everything dropped like an anvil and shits botanicals out his ass into that prosecutor's lap. Seize that!
And while I'm at it, fuck the FDA, trying desperately to lead us into believing that they're concerned about human well-being. Take a look at their process for approving new drugs and investigating bad reactions and so forth and realize that this arrest is mainly to the benefit of The United States of Pharmerica, to help them in their quest to cure nothing while providing "maintenance" to all.
In a country where nearly every action is governed, where you need permission for everything and constantly need to avoid suffocating laws which restrict personal choice at every crossroad, I call that a tyranny. Name something you do that the country hasn't decided whether or not you are allowed to do it, according what the government considers secure to the productivity of the nation.
In a land where you walk on eggshells to avoid committing any one of countless victimless crimes, how could you consider yourself free?
And for those people who say you just need to vote, need I remind you? We live in a republic, not a democracy.
Even if we as a people tell the politicians how to run the country, the politicians (frequently corrupt and disregarding the common good for their own benefit) are the ones who get to make the decisions.
-------------------- "Now ether was substituted for chloroform, and the difference of their phenomena noted, and now some other exhilarant, in the form of an opiate or stimulant, was the instrument of my experiments, until I had run through the whole gamut of queer agents within my reach..." I can do everything!!
Yeah, Doc, no worries, to each their own view. It's gradual the movement towards tyranny that worries me. When things happen by gradations, like the water boiling around a frog, it's easy to miss the signs until it's too late. That's how Hitler amassed his power to launch WWII, which a lot of people never saw coming. But maybe I'm erring on the side of caution.
It's interesting, however, to note that in the USSR, in El Salvador, in Uruguay, Chile and other dictatorships in the 70's, when people were capture and tortured, they were always asked "who do you associate with? Who are your friends, your partners?". This would go on and on as screws were drilled into their thumbs, or as they were waterboarded, or locked in bed bug-infested boxes. This one done so that the oppressors could map out a picture of the networks active within society. Now, they just apply some diagnostics software to networks like Facebook. Or flick on one of a million hidden cameras. The point is, the same goals are being met today that once required tyrannical, inhumane measures to achieve, and the methods available are evolving so fast that we need to constantly redefine what a tyranny would look like in today's world. We can't expect it to look like a 1970's model tyranny. Sure, they still lock up and interrogate the few hard cases, but it isn't really necessary most of the time.
I guess if it was a true tyranny, Sloan wouldn't be alive right now. But the arresting him was an act of intimidation against a society that seeks to be more liberated. To some degree, I call that unfair bullying, i.e. tyrannical.
This shit had to go down right at the time I'm actually about to buy stuff. That's just bad luck, hahaha. But respect, the same with growing pot. The more people that walk the line and pay the price to show that this will never stop, even with laws in place, are the people we have to thank for any change that may come in the future.
Quote: Freedom said: I read a bunch of posts but didn't see any mention of JLF who also sold these gray area products and was convicted, that case didn't set any precedent.
I don't think that was quite the same.
About the JLF case - "There were three primary charges in the indictment. The first was that Niemoeller distributed "misbranded prescription drugs"--including L-Dopa, dopamine and clenbuterol--on eight occasions from 1999 through 2001. Second, it alleged that he distributed 2CT7 and 1,4-butanediol, which the indictment described as "controlled substance analogs", on three occasions in 2001. And last, that Niemoeller distributed safrole, "a precursor chemical for the manufacture of MDMA", on two occasions in 2001." - from Erowid
JLF used to sell some of the same plant materials as BBB but was not charged for any of those. Almost all the things JLF was charged for was pure chemicals.
they also were offering gymnopilus i guess they didnt get charged on that
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Quote: Doc_T said: I just don't think we live in a tyranny. If you do- that's fine.
With a population as uneducated, passive and mesmerized as ours, you don't need to be a tyrant.
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
Post Extras:
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 67,565 Loc: underbelly
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: c0sm0nautt] #12007372 - 02/11/10 05:47 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Guess they didn't find the heroin they keep in-stock. Now that I think about, I remember that they always shipped it from the other warehouse. Smart move on their behalf.
I ordered some kratom from these guys a week ago this past monday, and still haven't gotten it. Is there a refund that I can expect?
Yea dude, contact the store I'm sure they will ship it out or refund you.
I placed on order last Monday, it shipped Wednesday before the raid. Got it in the mail fine.
Not to mention they didn't take the Kratom so they should have it ready to send to you no problem. They should send you a "Shipped" email with a tracking number.
* Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine (DMT) * Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Mescaline * Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Mescaline * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine; Chacruna; Illinois Bundleflower; Epena; Cebil Seeds. * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Bufotenine, Epena, Chaliponga, Cebil Seeds, Colorado River Toads. * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide, Morning Glory Seeds, Rivea Corymbosa. * Unlawful possession of certain drug precursors and drug paraphernalia: Plastic jugs and filters used or intended for unlawful use to manufacture, cultivate, plant propagate, harvest, test, analyze or distribute a controlled substance.<
Bogus for sure, i see double charges for amides and dmt i mean cmon....
-------------------- So, smoking pot = "child endangerment." Storming a home with guns, then firing bullets into the family pets as a child looks on = necessary police procedures to ensure everyone's safety. -Radley Balko
Quote: boomsaway said: >Here are the bogus charges:
The charges against Sloan
* Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine (DMT) * Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Mescaline * Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Mescaline * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine; Chacruna; Illinois Bundleflower; Epena; Cebil Seeds. * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Bufotenine, Epena, Chaliponga, Cebil Seeds, Colorado River Toads. * Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide, Morning Glory Seeds, Rivea Corymbosa. * Unlawful possession of certain drug precursors and drug paraphernalia: Plastic jugs and filters used or intended for unlawful use to manufacture, cultivate, plant propagate, harvest, test, analyze or distribute a controlled substance.<
Bogus for sure, i see double charges for amides and dmt i mean cmon....
There is at least one precedent in state law, concerning mushrooms. The New Mexico Supreme Court ruled that the state drug rules concerning manufacturing didn't specifically mention growing plants as cultivation. Now, unless the law in Kansas specifically mentions growing these plants is illegal, my guess is that he wouldn't be convicted of 'manufacturing' or 'cultivation. (unless he was extracting, in which case he's fucked) The governments are making the laws vague as hell so they can net anyone for any reason, the problem is if you have a good legal team you can beat charges, but who can afford 200~300 bucks an hour? There is a lot of cases in precedent that are not concerning drugs that are similar, that if a law doesn't specifically point out the illegal act, you can't be convicted of it. So I guess it depends on how the laws are written in Kansas. Our government is totally out of control, from bottom to top.
Precedents can still be cited. The reason is making up laws on the fly like the government is doing is completely unconstitutional. Of course an asshole judge can do about anything he wants.
seriously tho it says Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances for a reason im sure
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Quote: thedudenj said: seriously tho it says Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances for a reason im sure
Yeah, he is being charged for possessing plants which synthesized illegal drugs. Technically under this rational we should start arresting human beings for PCS.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
Yes, and ALL of our neurotransmitters are controlled substance analogues!
-------------------- Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.
All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.
Quote: thedudenj said: seriously tho it says Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances for a reason im sure
Yeah, he is being charged for possessing plants which synthesized illegal drugs. Technically under this rational we should start arresting human beings for PCS.
doesnt make sense to me theres a difference between possession and manufacturing.
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
i think you mean cultivation and manufacturing and for that I agree
-------------------- How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops
yeah its funny ppl that get busted for mushrooms are usually just charged with manufacturing psilicybin not cultivation
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
we don't know all the specifics. from the way I'm reading it, and the way I'm imaging it, i think he's being charged for distribution as one separate charge, and manufacture as another separate charge. and these charges are not for the same crime, in other words it sounds like he was doing extractions
look at the list of drug paraphernalia, it has filters, which would at list hint towards him doing extracts.
and since they listed LSA and morning glory seeds, i think indeed we are looking at extracts...perhaps this is why people say most of his stuff seemed "weak", he "may" have been running a side business with extracts, i gather this idea from the list of charges.
when you look at it like that, it all kinda makes sense.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
to people saying "how can plastic jugs and tubes be illegal?" once you have been charged with manufacturing/distribution (or even possession, depending on the circumstances) the police can take a lot of leeway in claiming regular household items were being used for illegal purposes, and are thus illegal themselves. a friend served 4 years after being popped with a scale that had mdma residue on it. this got him a trafficking charge, and then all the random plastic equipment he had in his van at the time (none of which had any drug residue on it) became "paraphernalia in a mobile meth lab" - which significantly increased his sentence.
Does this mean they can shut down banks for cocaine didtribution? Its well known over 90% of bills have amounts of blow that i am sure are higher than the amount of alkaloids contained in some of the plants/animals seized. This is more than sad, what can we do? This REALLY makes me want to get involved but how, other than continuing to spread light can we? These people NEED to be stopped this is a crime against both man and nature and should NOT be tolerated.
-------------------- "I collect mold, spores, and fungus."
~E. Spengler
large, motivated and brave crowds of people marching INTO the parliament are the only way things work worldwide. if the gov doesn't listen, replace, by force if need be. all this talking will accomplish nothing.
anything short of physically being there and *demanding* (not saying this then going home at 11 pm cause mom/wife called and said its getting late) change or for them to get the fuck out, will not work. in places liek the USA, this will liekly be no different than any othe rviolent revolution because either party liekyl isnt intelligent enough to do it peacefully...so they clash....lots of countries haev done this in the last few years.....look at thailand. cant say its much better than before though.
anyway, its going to take a lot more than substance prohibition to get people worked up....bush couldnt even get us citizens motivated enough, which makes me think the country as a whole is either too lazy to do anything or isnt really that at odds with things...and not picking on the states, only say the states cause thats where BBB is, but i think the majority of countries are not much different.
-------------------- The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
theirs a movie you all should watch if you haven't already. The American Drug War, The Last White Hope. It will show you the bigger picture of whats happening to this guy.
This country is def lazy. people care more about whats gonna happen on the new episode of lost or whos gonna win american idol then they do about whats happening in our gov today. shits gonna hit the fan real soon.
For everyone who is saying that he should plead "guilty", since he obviosly knows he was breaking the law....
Don't be so dumb ok? You could walk into (in fact I HAVE BEFORE) walked into a franks nursury and bought a San Pedro cactus, over a foot tall. If you don't know what Franks is than search for it, it's a large nursury store that sells all sorts of plants / soils / etc. All these things you can "treat" and come out with a tiny amount of mescaline or whatever....ITS ALL LEGAL. He had his disclaimers, he was within the rights of the law, clearly. Do you think all the nursuries in the country are going to stop selling these plants after this? No, because it's not ilegal.....
I quess the K2 thing is what started this? I have only read 10 of the pages of comments thus far. But, I thought that synthetic THC products just became ilegal in his state. Isnt there an amount of time that must go by before the law takes effect? WTF is going on here? Is it really just as simple as making an "example" of him?? How could they go ahead and do this when there is a chance that he will get off scot-free, because nothing is ilegal here?!?!
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
Quote: Cactusdan said: It's neither defined as legal or illegal.
It is a gray area and the police are trying to define it towards the illegal direction.
There have been people busted for trich sales before.
Did not know this. That makes this much more seriouse in my mind I think.....Thanks for claryfying for me.
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
Quote: geokills said: I have verified that the following information is correct: Jon Sloan Defense Fund
Nice setup... this is how it should be. I know me, and many others, would be vary weary of supporting him online with PayPal or something. Associating our names & credit cards with the cause.
This leaves no one with an excuse not to donate! This case will affect us all, the more money they have to fight it the better.
Quote: Mr E Guest said: [Re: original post] This sucks, but only yesterday I was discussing with a friend that it's the profiteers who will get done. Then I find this today...uncanny!
It confirms to me that sacred substances must be treated with respect.
Everything is sacred imo and so no profit should be made selling anything. Does that logic work for you? Nobody goes into this as a business without profiting or wanting to. Don't kid yourself.
I don't know. A broken copy of "Three Dollar Bill, Ya'll", by Limp Bizkit doesn't seem that sacred. Nor does store brand Dr. Pepper brands.
rpepper:
...that didn't work.
Quote: Society Said: Quote: Icelander said: "Then based on that we should shut down the Shroomery for blatantly pushing a drug agenda and talking openly about usage."
I sent a to Ythan and let him know.
It's been fun, guys.
Has anyone else noticed changed patterns from similar suppliers that are NOT based in the USA? Oh, and we need a Dr. Pepper graemlin.
~Monk
Edited by numonkei (02/12/10 01:52 PM)
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!
Registered: 04/12/06 Posts: 2,451 Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Bouncing Bear Botanicals [Re: kadakuda] #12016404 - 02/12/10 01:59 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)
Quote: kadakuda said: large, motivated and brave crowds of people marching INTO the parliament are the only way things work worldwide. if the gov doesn't listen, replace, by force if need be. all this talking will accomplish nothing.
anything short of physically being there and *demanding* (not saying this then going home at 11 pm cause mom/wife called and said its getting late) change or for them to get the fuck out, will not work. in places liek the USA, this will liekly be no different than any othe rviolent revolution because either party liekyl isnt intelligent enough to do it peacefully...so they clash....lots of countries haev done this in the last few years.....look at thailand. cant say its much better than before though.
anyway, its going to take a lot more than substance prohibition to get people worked up....bush couldnt even get us citizens motivated enough, which makes me think the country as a whole is either too lazy to do anything or isnt really that at odds with things...and not picking on the states, only say the states cause thats where BBB is, but i think the majority of countries are not much different.
Quote: LongStrangeTrip said: He had his disclaimers, he was within the rights of the law, clearly.
a disclaimar doesn't give you the right to break the law. Mescaline barring san pedro cacti are illegal, just like poppy pods. Whether or not its tolerated and sold anyway is a different story. In my opinion where bbb went wrong was blatantly and openly talking about consuming these drugs. Im sure the nurseries and home depots that sell trich like cacti don't talk about consuming them; therefore, they aren't a target. just speculation.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
Quote: LongStrangeTrip said: He had his disclaimers, he was within the rights of the law, clearly.
a disclaimar doesn't give you the right to break the law. Mescaline barring san pedro cacti are illegal, just like poppy pods. Whether or not its tolerated and sold anyway is a different story. In my opinion where bbb went wrong was blatantly and openly talking about consuming these drugs. Im sure the nurseries and home depots that sell trich like cacti don't talk about consuming them; therefore, they aren't a target. just speculation.
Why aren't they throwing the owners of Home Depot, Lowes, just about every nursery in the southwest, etc, into jail then? Answer... because the law doesn't specifically call these illegal. They will need to prove intent for the purpose of getting people high.
Quote: LongStrangeTrip said: He had his disclaimers, he was within the rights of the law, clearly.
a disclaimar doesn't give you the right to break the law. Mescaline barring san pedro cacti are illegal, just like poppy pods. Whether or not its tolerated and sold anyway is a different story. In my opinion where bbb went wrong was blatantly and openly talking about consuming these drugs. Im sure the nurseries and home depots that sell trich like cacti don't talk about consuming them; therefore, they aren't a target. just speculation.
Why aren't they throwing the owners of Home Depot, Lowes, just about every nursery in the southwest, etc, into jail then? Answer... because the law doesn't specifically call these illegal. They will need to prove intent for the purpose of getting people high.
which isn't very hard when you have a forum attached to your website all about getting high. When you personally answer questions about getting high via email. When you own a "movie production" company all about getting high. lets face it, bbb wasn't the most discreet of companies.
but only time will tell.
-------------------- 'Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back.' ~Chinese Proverb
-------------------- Click here to check out lineups for Magnoliafest and Springfest in Live Oak, FL The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao ~Tao Te Ching/Daodejing
"Find what you're looking for by not looking for it." ~Old Hippie Philosophy
Quote: Cognitive_Shift said: I still don't understand how prosecutes are going at this. He has a disclaimer and everything...
He opened up and hosted Dancing Bear forums where people talked about preparing, ingesting & extracting from his plants. They also gave experience reports.
The had a link to this forum on every page of his store, on the top right, it says "Forums" which take you there.
This is pretty direct & blatant promotion of your products for consumption. They will likely use this to build a case.
Is it his fault when his customers are informed of the legality and of their products when prepared for ingestion, and they ignore his disclaimer? Where on his site other than what his customers say in a open and public online forum that his products are intended for illegal purposes? Some will say yes, some no. The answer is subjective.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
Well, what brought down everyone in Operation Pipes Dreams is that they used subtle and not so subtle hints of what it was being used for on their website. That and only that was the catalyst because without that they got nothing. In my opinion he won't get off on all charges. I do hope they fire and hire another lawyer though. The guy he (had?) was a joker......
-------------------- How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops
Quote: LongStrangeTrip said: He had his disclaimers, he was within the rights of the law, clearly.
a disclaimar doesn't give you the right to break the law. Mescaline barring san pedro cacti are illegal, just like poppy pods. Whether or not its tolerated and sold anyway is a different story. In my opinion where bbb went wrong was blatantly and openly talking about consuming these drugs. Im sure the nurseries and home depots that sell trich like cacti don't talk about consuming them; therefore, they aren't a target. just speculation.
Why aren't they throwing the owners of Home Depot, Lowes, just about every nursery in the southwest, etc, into jail then? Answer... because the law doesn't specifically call these illegal. They will need to prove intent for the purpose of getting people high.
which isn't very hard when you have a forum attached to your website all about getting high. When you personally answer questions about getting high via email. When you own a "movie production" company all about getting high. lets face it, bbb wasn't the most discreet of companies.
but only time will tell.
Quote: CosmicLion said:
Quote: Cognitive_Shift said: I still don't understand how prosecutes are going at this. He has a disclaimer and everything...
He opened up and hosted Dancing Bear forums where people talked about preparing, ingesting & extracting from his plants. They also gave experience reports.
The had a link to this forum on every page of his store, on the top right, it says "Forums" which take you there.
This is pretty direct & blatant promotion of your products for consumption. They will likely use this to build a case.
Quote: Cognitive_Shift said: Is it his fault when his customers are informed of the legality and of their products when prepared for ingestion, and they ignore his disclaimer? Where on his site other than what his customers say in a open and public online forum that his products are intended for illegal purposes? Some will say yes, some no. The answer is subjective.
yes.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
It's no different then why headshops (in FL at least) will throw you out of a store for calling a "Water Pipe" a "bong" or making any mention of smoking pot out of it.
They do this because if they allow that connection to be made it becomes paraphernalia and they become responsible for selling the tool to perform the illegal act.
By allowing the talk of consumption on his website and not shutting it out or telling them to talk about it on another site, he was validating that he deemed it ok for his products to be used that way and thus made him responsible.
In this case, ignorance and/or stronger warnings of THIS IS NOT FOR CONSUMPTION FOR ANY REASON!!!!! would have done him well.
Quote: AntiEverything said: consider this: Holding a live animal in captivity for the purpose of getting high is a pretty fucked up situation honestly. so don't be so quick to point out that you cant outlaw plants or animals. its for their safety and its shameful to think that's why BBB sold them.
(bufotoad)
Check this shit out. The zoo holds animals captive..........FOR MONEY! and dont tell me they don't cause giraffes aint supposed to be grey. Elephants are not supposed to look like scabs. And finally lions are not supposed to have bald patches. See they got me locked down though cause the zoo is like crack to my kids. Here's one. How bout the circus, I never got high off circus. And no, cognative shift. Growin weed and gettin frogs through the mail is not the same shit. And trees in the forest lean to provided optimum photo synthesis. Try this if you dont think its different. Look at a house plant real mean. Then slap the shit out of if. then half an hour later look at it mean. See if it runs. Fuck it look mean and slap the living shit out the plant every day for a year. Holla back when it runs. Now....... same experiment with a dog. Get it? I bet it really breaks your heart when you walk on grass. its just like stepping on wittle kittens *tear*
-------------------- I do not advocate drugs, even alcohol in any way, shape or form. All comments on this site are lies and fabrications due to my need to fit in socially. Nothing I say is fact and things that i say or imply are completely ficticious
Quote: Cactusdan said: It's no different then why headshops (in FL at least) will throw you out of a store for calling a "Water Pipe" a "bong" or making any mention of smoking pot out of it.
They do this because if they allow that connection to be made it becomes paraphernalia and they become responsible for selling the tool to perform the illegal act.
By allowing the talk of consumption on his website and not shutting it out or telling them to talk about it on another site, he was validating that he deemed it ok for his products to be used that way and thus made him responsible.
In this case, ignorance and/or stronger warnings of THIS IS NOT FOR CONSUMPTION FOR ANY REASON!!!!! would have done him well.
Yea, that pretty much sums it up. For that/those simple actions he gets the award.
-------------------- Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
The 'open and public' forum is almost certainly where the charges came from.
Who operates the domain? Who has a precedent case for ANY kind of "open and public" internet use-group or newsgroup?
There is a reason for no toleration at long-standing "open and public" online forums, such as thus, for any commerce wherein there is a possibility for conviction?
To open a forum under the similar pseudo-legal status of a LLC or similar "entity", (see recent Supreme Court outrage), which details methods for preparations of illegal drugs where the same LLC is in control of a distribution center related to said preparations, the law seems to win hands down on a state or federal level.
Is it right? Is it just? Fuck no, but it is real. That's good enough, ask those serving life sentences for crimes they never even "conspired" to commit.
Or ask that benevolent Yahweh character. This shit burns, but It will continue to do such until every one of us human beings is 24/7 enlightened/modified to uniformity, or dead and gone.
I'm assuming everything should be fine in respect to orders... I mean, there are pictures here of workers taking orders and preparing them to ship after the raid...
I really hope so to, considering today I bought a kilo of amanitas and a little kratom, along with some of their regular herbals...
Quote: LongStrangeTrip said: Just to put in my two cents...
For everyone who is saying that he should plead "guilty", since he obviosly knows he was breaking the law....
Don't be so dumb ok? You could walk into (in fact I HAVE BEFORE) walked into a franks nursury and bought a San Pedro cactus, over a foot tall. If you don't know what Franks is than search for it, it's a large nursury store that sells all sorts of plants / soils / etc. All these things you can "treat" and come out with a tiny amount of mescaline or whatever....ITS ALL LEGAL. He had his disclaimers, he was within the rights of the law, clearly. Do you think all the nursuries in the country are going to stop selling these plants after this? No, because it's not ilegal.....
I quess the K2 thing is what started this? I have only read 10 of the pages of comments thus far. But, I thought that synthetic THC products just became ilegal in his state. Isnt there an amount of time that must go by before the law takes effect? WTF is going on here? Is it really just as simple as making an "example" of him?? How could they go ahead and do this when there is a chance that he will get off scot-free, because nothing is ilegal here?!?!
Any decent lawyer will rip that shit apart in court... What he was selling wasn't illegal at the time.... Information certainly isn't illegal. Case closed.
What information you give someone on what they CAN do with something isn't breaking the law. I mean there's shit like the terrorist handbook and anarchist cookbook out there.. or there used to be anyway. They really have no case, not good publicity for the future though.
you can't just go around selling anarchist/terrorist information along with all the ingredients to make bombs. Personally i don't think it matters how good his lawyer is, he is going to go down unless some new information comes to light about the details of what all actually went on.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
He'll go down just like the people in Operation Pipe Dreams. He should have learned from their mistakes. Make no hints, indications or instructions how to use anything illegal. Since they took his money they basically took his chance away for a fair trial. Hopefully he's got no priors..... it's just bad news all around. I wish him all the best in his fight against this tyranny.
-------------------- How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops
For those wondering about recent orders/shipping/etc. , here is an e-mail I received in response to the following inquiry...
From: ****** [mailto:************@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 12:25 PM To: Bouncing Bear Botanicals Subject: General Question: Inquiry from Bouncing Bear Botanicals
I recently made an order of A. muscaria,thai kratom, and cramp root. Will recent events in your business effect the completion/shipment of this order?
.:****
This is their Response...
Hi ***,
Thank you for contacting Bouncing Bear.
If your recent order (since 2/3) has been delayed or you haven't been able to get hold of us, this is probably why: www.SaveJon.org ; (If you can help spread the word on FaceBook, MySpace, Twitter, etc. etc. to help raise awareness and a defense fund, please do).
But we are still in business and shipping orders (of everything they DIDN'T seize). We expect to be caught up shortly, though we are running behind on the e-mail still.
This e-mail contains answers to some of our most frequently asked questions. If your question is not answered in this e-mail, simply reply to this e-mail or call us at 785-863-2202. And, yes. We can take orders over the phone. There's answer #1 :-)
Most orders are shipped within one business day. Orders placed before noon are generally shipped the same day, so most orders are delivered within 4 business days in the U.S. Live Plants ship out on Monday's and Tuesday's only.
None of our ethnobotanicals are sold for consumption. For some general information about many of our ethnobotanicals, you can checkout www.erowid.org
We do guarantee the quality and satisfaction of all our products. If you're not pleased for any reason, return it for a full refund. No questions asked.
All of our orders are shipped in plain, unmarked packages, with just a shipping label and return address.
If you mailed an order and got a "Payment Received" e-mail and an order status change of Pending, there isn't a problem. That just puts it in the system to print the next time we print orders. Your order will generally ship that same day or the following business day (see above).
We do offer wholesale prices. If you are a business, you can set up a wholesale account here: https://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/members/create_account.php If you're interested in getting wholesale prices as an individual for some specific items, reply with the products you're interested in and the quantities and we will be happy to provide you with pricing.
You can checkout with a credit card online. To pay in a different method (options below), complete the checkout online, choosing the desired payment option. When you make the payment, just include the Invoice Number from your receipt.
Payment options we accept:
You can mail payment (check, money orders, cash, etc.) to:
BBB PO BOX 1993 Lawrence KS 66044 USA
Make sure and include your order and contact information with the payment. Thanks.
------------
Western Union
Send a Western Union to:
First Name: Jon Last Name: Sloan City: Lawrence State: Kansas Zip Code: 66044 Country: USA
Then send us:
The name of the sender Where the payment was sent from How much was sent what the order was for or the order number and the 10-digit Money Transfer Control Number
If you are outside the U.S. and want to pay with a credit card, we need a copy of the card on file. You can reply to this e-mail and attach a picture of the card and we will get your account set up to use that card. Our card processor just requires verification before we take the order.
We can't take PayPal. They've closed several of our accounts for lots of B.S. reasons. The last one was for selling non-FDA approved herbs. They're not a fan of herbs and we're not fans of having our money stolen. Sorry. You can read the beginning of our fun with them at: http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/paypal_warning.htm
Please include this e-mail in any reply.
Bouncing Bear was raided February 4th. To read more about the bogus bust by federal raiders and thieves, please visit this link:
obviously they need to even thow they've just been smacked over the head with it, seriously now are they doing this on purpose? because everything points towards it
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Regardless of if those in charge of BBB didn't take the necessary precautions for things like this, I am outraged that the government chooses to do what it wants, and take what it wants. They chose to make an example of one or two people, pouring money into these occurrences, because all it takes is one bust every few years to appeal to the sympathy factor of every mother and father of a 12 year old child (that thinks if little jimmy chooses to one one day responsibly experience an altered state of perception he will end up on the streets giving blow jobs for crack money)& keep their faith in the war on drugs. It's the same shit we faced in the 30's with Reefer Madness, the government has just gotten smarter, and more subtle. If they can make an example of one person every now & then, they keep themselves going strong with the support of every parent, while making it still harder for people to defend their right to speech, and the possession of these special enthogens(the few that we are allowed the right to chose if it shall enter our OWN body.) When is enough, enough? when it gets so far that the government can outlaw a substance without law, with simply the snap of their finger? Is that what it will take to outrage those who are not having to experience this unjust first hand? "We can have justice whenever those who have not been injured by injustice are as outraged by it as those who have been." -Solon
Quote: Lizardman said: Wait, they still tell customers to check out erowid for information about their products? In this situation they're in?
lol wtf they are nuts
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that Neurosoup bitch is almost directly responsible for this... or at least is a BIG part of the reason it happened.
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that the on the Shroomery who were campaigning against Neurosoup are directly responsible for this... or at least are a BIG part of the reason it happened.
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that Neurosoup bitch is almost directly responsible for this... or at least is a BIG part of the reason it happened.
Quote: Shroomism said: How much you guys want to bet that Neurosoup bitch is almost directly responsible for this... or at least is a BIG part of the reason it happened.
I think I am a DJ!
I listen to Dubstep and have horrible taste in music
Nothing I ever purchased from BBB worked... So they really shouldn't have been convicted since their shit is bunk and probably contains no illegal substances.
Fucked up though, this was not what I wanted to see today.
-------------------- Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
I listen to Dubstep and have horrible taste in music
fixed again.
Its called Breaks/Dub/Electro, better then Trance/Electro/Techno. I used to be into all the raver shit too then you come to the burner side. Its okay it will happen... You'll find that PLUR is non existent. I guess the taste is in the ear of the beholder though.
Never the less when people make public statements or even Youtube videos about how to get high on legal plants its asking for trouble. That is not to say that BBB had his own fault for this situation. Anyways lets hope they don't make some plants and cacti illegal because of it. I am trying to get a nice selection of entheogens now for preservation purposes.
yea I saw that wierd looking Neurosoup girl once, come on now why the fuck is she making videos about getting high youtube, thats like wrapping a crack pipe with a candy wrapper. Only kids troll youtube for easy ways to get high and this chick is providing all the ways to do it.
you know whats funny about neronsoup, its like the gov is trying to rub it in our faces why people shouldn't do drugs...cuss you'll end up like neronsoup lol.
-------------------- We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
This is from abc news 'February 1, 2009': "Search for "salvia" on YouTube, and you'll find hundreds of video testimonials from people who have taken the drug. Hands-on types can visit sites such as NeuroSoup to view step-by-step tutorials on how to squeeze venom from Colorado River toads and extract from it a powerful hallucinogen" source: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/PCWorld/story?id=6782911
Quote: Thisfire said: Nothing I ever purchased from BBB worked... So they really shouldn't have been convicted since their shit is bunk and probably contains no illegal substances.
Fucked up though, this was not what I wanted to see today.
hmmm, perhaps you are just too dense to work with said substances? I can assure BBB was not bunk.
-------------------- "Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire."
Quote: "My hope and goal is to have salvia regulated across the U.S.," Kathleen Chidester says. "To lose a boy so bright, so warm, so intelligent, with so much to offer the world, is incomprehensible to me--and all due to a mind-altering drug that continues to be legal in many states."
It is so incomprehensible to me that we live in a society that allows very few stupid or careless people, or even one retarded faggot killing himself, to justify making laws that ruin something for everyone else.
Here's my edit:
Quote: "My hope and goal is to have automobiles regulated across the U.S.," Kathleen Chidester says. "To lose a boy so bright, so warm, so intelligent, with so much to offer the world, is incomprehensible to me--and all due to the use of automobiles which continues to be legal in many states."
"Now this isn't a Colorado river toad, but just to show you how it works, there are two little glands there on the top--see, right there behind its eyes--that excrete this hallucinogenic drug.. You could squeeze it or you could lick, or you could massage it out--which is easy... but we don't recommend you do it."
Yes, I do have this strange feeling it could become a new fad...
Those fucking pussies should be out busting meth labs. Meth is a horrible, life destroying drug, not this. Couldn't hurt to shift some of that DEA funding to public education either. Maybe after a while the smart will out breed the stupid - false hope is better than no hope I guess.
-------------------- The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution.
- Bertrand Russell
Quote: "My hope and goal is to have salvia regulated across the U.S.," Kathleen Chidester says. "To lose a boy so bright, so warm, so intelligent, with so much to offer the world, is incomprehensible to me--and all due to a mind-altering drug that continues to be legal in many states."
It is so incomprehensible to me that we live in a society that allows very few stupid or careless people, or even one retarded faggot killing himself, to justify making laws that ruin something for everyone else.
Here's my edit:
Quote: "My hope and goal is to have automobiles regulated across the U.S.," Kathleen Chidester says. "To lose a boy so bright, so warm, so intelligent, with so much to offer the world, is incomprehensible to me--and all due to the use of automobiles which continues to be legal in many states."
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
Quote: OwnLife said: Those fucking pussies should be out busting meth labs. Meth is a horrible, life destroying drug, not this. Couldn't hurt to shift some of that DEA funding to public education either. Maybe after a while the smart will out breed the stupid - false hope is better than no hope I guess.
-------------------- “In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
-----------------------------------
A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
-------------------- astralsun.blogspot.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
-------------------- Now i was standing in the corner
i'm searchin for my rizla
i had some marijuana
i needed to get higher
so i went into the corner with my rizla and my ganja
built another spliff until i was totally out my head
Quote: lukeboots said: Yeah, it's pretty clear now that Sloan & co have no idea how to STFU when it would be in everyone's interest.
True.
Bet Jon's lawyer isn't happy about it.
-------------------- “In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
-----------------------------------
A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
It's trying to stir an emotional response tho i doubt it's needed nor useful. We already know they're shitheads.
-------------------- Now i was standing in the corner
i'm searchin for my rizla
i had some marijuana
i needed to get higher
so i went into the corner with my rizla and my ganja
built another spliff until i was totally out my head
Maybe by doing so they're hoping they can rely more on public outcry techniques than on the US gov. ... Whether its right or not, both routes have their own ramifications... Yea, with publicity comes extra supporters and opposers, but they may see it as a more reliability of being treated fairly... If all is kept as quiet as possible, there's a greater chance of being treated unfairly and being taken advantage of...
However... With the public outcry there will be a greater awareness of the currently legal botanicals to the general public, which, regardless of how ll this turns out, will bring consequences upon those who use/want them...
So either way, they were dealt bad cards... along with "us"... because even if BBB "wins" any of this, I have a feeling we'll lose something. If BBB loses, we'll lose even more.
Regardless of what happens, things will be different... So you might as well stock up... that way, if things become less available, you'll have it... and if availability doesn't change.. well, then you'll still have a lot, and nothing wrong with that, eh?
I can understand the public security but it doesn't seem smart to aggravate the situation,, not that i'm any sort of expert. The prohibitionist will see this as a necessary evil, that's if they have any regard for Jon whatsoever. The ones likely to donate/help will already have a grasp on the situation.
-------------------- Now i was standing in the corner
i'm searchin for my rizla
i had some marijuana
i needed to get higher
so i went into the corner with my rizla and my ganja
built another spliff until i was totally out my head
At the bottom of their FEDS are THUGS page they should have neurosoup make a video about civil injustice and which etho they sell is best for a first-timer. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.
All the fairyland "spread the info to the masses and everything will be ok" nonsense is like watching a slow motion train crash.
-------------------- Now i was standing in the corner
i'm searchin for my rizla
i had some marijuana
i needed to get higher
so i went into the corner with my rizla and my ganja
built another spliff until i was totally out my head
Quote: Mikeyyork said: The prohibitionist will see this as a necessary evil, that's if they have any regard for Jon whatsoever. The ones likely to donate/help will already have a grasp on the situation.
Correct.
-------------------- “In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
-----------------------------------
A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
This guy should have donated to the police retirement fund. Hasent this guy watched any cop vs badguy movies? Big time dealers need to pay off the pigs
I laugh at this because the dollars at stake are nowhere near the dangers or profit/cost to our society (even under their shaky standards.) I am personally concerned about my records... do the feds have them now?
This is just absolutely fucked. They will someday raid my home because I have substance 4421B... equilibrium status.
That site http://www.savejon.org/ is kinda incriminating. Its fucked up though, Ive been locked up(age 15-18), its one of the worst fucking ordeals Ive even been through. Whats really fucked is if they really found any illegal substances, they can say he was manufacturing. This dude needs a good lawyer, 75 years in federal prison is 3 life sentences, I think %-( , how much can you reduce something like that? If I was him I would gtfo of dodge
just contact bouncing bear botanicals about my cash order i sent in a few weeks ago. tiffany said the feds took all their mail from that day (how convenient), but she would still send out my order for me.
thats good business.
i guess theyre drop-shipping orders through another company as of now. wish them the best of luck in getting through this fucking mess.
-------------------- I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Check out what Krystle Cole (neurosoup girl) helped Todd Skinner do to her boyfriend at http://www.freepickard.org/appeal/affidavitsept12_03.pdf Anal rape, body shaved, injected with drugs while duct-taped, penis mutilated. And she helped dump his body in a field after torturing for days. This is the person attracting media and Law Enforcement attention to entheogens with her irresponsible vids posted on youtube. She is ruining it for everyone! DEA informant or just plain stupid? You decide! Spread the word.
Quote: lampropeltis7 said: Check out what Krystle Cole (neurosoup girl) helped Todd Skinner do to her boyfriend at http://www.freepickard.org/appeal/affidavitsept12_03.pdf Anal rape, body shaved, injected with drugs while duct-taped, penis mutilated. And she helped dump his body in a field after torturing for days. This is the person attracting media and Law Enforcement attention to entheogens with her irresponsible vids posted on youtube. She is ruining it for everyone! DEA informant or just plain stupid? You decide! Spread the word.
damn I was just fuckin around, who knew she really is a snake.
10-20 in the federal pen if he doesn't have priors
he's out in 5 with good behavior
-------------------- How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops
OMFG... What the fuck is going on in kansas? Is that really important enough to make the fucking news with everything going on nowadays. I'm suddenly reminded why I stopped watching tv a few years ago.
Quote: lampropeltis7 said: Check out what Krystle Cole (neurosoup girl) helped Todd Skinner do to her boyfriend at http://www.freepickard.org/appeal/affidavitsept12_03.pdf Anal rape, body shaved, injected with drugs while duct-taped, penis mutilated. And she helped dump his body in a field after torturing for days. This is the person attracting media and Law Enforcement attention to entheogens with her irresponsible vids posted on youtube. She is ruining it for everyone! DEA informant or just plain stupid? You decide! Spread the word.
Just because someone told the police some horrible tale doesn't mean she actually did ANY of that. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Quote: Uwase said: I'm assuming everything should be fine in respect to orders... I mean, there are pictures here of workers taking orders and preparing them to ship after the raid...
I really hope so to, considering today I bought a kilo of amanitas and a little kratom, along with some of their regular herbals...
I'll post if/when they arrive.
Better than just hoping it all works out, send them a $5 donation to the address they have:
Dismal. At least the author manages to get across how poor she is (can't even afford medicine, Boo Hoo!) and how you can contribute money to her website. She actually tells the reader how she cries when she gets critical reviews. Sorry Krystle. I am not attacking you, just objectively evaluating your work.
Her books are high priced CRAP, something like a D+ middle school essay or a 12 year old girl's diary. Bad spelling, grammar, incomplete sentences; pure drivel! And get this: She posts a 5-star review of "Lysergic" on Amazon that she WROTE HERSELF in the 3rd person as if she IS NOT the author! Dishonest and unethical! How about posting BAD reviews of her books on Amazon? I already did, your turn!
Quote: danielx said: they are only 199,000 away from their goal.
I will laugh when you are imprisoned. You are a part of this community and are likely involved in SOME sort of questionable activity (or are you on the wrong board?)
It is truly disgusting how the government can and does rape people on a daily basis. Families are torn apart and promotions are handed out. Your tax dollars hard at work. You are a slave in the land of the free.
When your straw gets picked I hope you remember this Freedom doesn't come cheap in America.
Bad book reviews on Amazon will prevent people from buying her shitty books, hit her in the pocketbook, and give her more "nightmares". Don't buy the things or try to read em, just make up a bad review. Looks to me like she had some friends write some 5-star reviews for Lysergic- can't believe anyone REALLY believes the books are any good. Like I said, she wrote one of the good reviews herself (neurosoup)! Just finished reading the neurosoup thread! wow- 68 pages! Lots of Amazon buyers base their decision to buy on reviews, and I'm sure she will end up reading them too - good way to fuck with her head and keep her from making money of her shit. Let me know what you think of my review of Lysergic - you will know which it is. Gotta keep it clean there, not near as much fun as here. All out psych-warfare!
What I think he meant was that they charge full retail, if not more, for all their products not giving us a break in in price. I mean come the fck on, this dude is charging $65.34 for one gram of 30x salvia extract, that is fucking insane, that is one hit that lasts 2 minutes, and he even adds 34cents as if the price wasn't already a slap in the face. The only reason they do it is because they are exploiting the kindhearted people here, who actually believe he is a good person who loves all of us, or that his stuff is better. Anyone can make a gram of 30x and clean it up so it looks pretty, ooh shiny crystals.. heh. People here will get mad and say he is supporting his family, at least you know he is a good dude, his stuff is better. All a bunch of smug bullshit I say. He is just another salesman charging full retail for a 5$ product. None of you know this man, you aren't his family, he isn't gonna tell you how much he makes or what kind of steak he eats for dinner every night...
This guy is feeding his kids steak for dinner while the guy, who bought the 70$ gram of salvia, is feeding his kids a fuckin top ramen noodle.
Last year he had a kilo of salvia leaves for $163.35, now look at this guy, as soon as eBay banned the sale of salvia he more then doubled the price, now they have 1-lb for $163.35 (WTF 35 cents) He is nothing more then a retail supplier, he is not my friend or good person, just a salesman. You know and who does he come to when shit hits the fan and he cant afford the boat payment anymore? To us, telling us how the man is doing him wrong, well fuck that dude. You think just because you replaced a undelivered parcel your frikin Gandhi and I'm supposed to love you for that? No way man. Do you guys honestly believe this guy needs help for this? Like someone said he already posted bond, which means he has almost a million dollars in collateral. They are too fucking greedy to lower their prices to the point where he can easily raise the money he needs for this, instead they comes to us playing us for our good intentions asking us to dip into our bread, our family's food and give it to him. Not gonna happen. I know someone is gonna reply and say, 'oh i know him, he is a really good dude'. Get real, he is being nice so you'll look at his site and buy something.
You people need to wake up and see this for what it is, KARMA. Obviously he has none.
Quote: They were totally exploiting this scene and they were bound to go down and possibly ruin it for everyone.
That is like saying that restaurants are exploiting peoples hunger for profit.
I think they do don't they ?, to make productive use of. Difference is the governments don't start enforcing laws on meals if they become popular. I know the fault lies with the people also, but people are drawn in by commercial bullshit and i get the impression this could have been made less easy for the law fucks to manipulate.
Either BBB were on some half baked quest or being greedy, shit backfired but if you push it too far that's always going to happen.
I don't agree with what's happening to them, but i can see why people are upset,, at least those who had nothing to do with BBB.
-------------------- Now i was standing in the corner
i'm searchin for my rizla
i had some marijuana
i needed to get higher
so i went into the corner with my rizla and my ganja
built another spliff until i was totally out my head
No one deserves to be in jail because of their business practices. At worst it was not cool but deserving to go to federal prison for upcharing some salvia? Do some research and buy bulk from the source if you really care that much.
I believe the consequence of bad business is the loss of your customers and if the customers don't leave to the next guy that's their own choice to pay that price. In the end how a heavily retail based business treats its customers will ultimately be reflected in their long term survival.
That's like saying every place that sells $6 beers should be shut down with their owners arrested. Or, you could go to the bar next door with the $6 pitcher.
I'm not saying he didn't get what could easily be seen coming to him, I just don't think its fair to say he deserves to be in jail because of periods of inflated prices. Openly associating with psychedelics and providing ingestion advice online endangered the whole future of ethnobotanicals just so they could have a marketable edge. It was a ticking timebomb waiting to explode all over the whole community and industry he represents. Pretty irresponsible and selfish.
My first comment about any of this but - I don't think it matters as much what WE might think about it either way as much as what the FEDS do. I they perceive you as a profiteer or part of the problem you get a visit. Wonder what the update is? Are they considering lessening some of the charges or still full steam? Is BB still taking orders and shipping? To me that would mean that they haven't taken full issue - just some...but ya know I'm no expert just remember Fanaticus and the Radical Rabbi as well as a couple others that have taken punches over the years.
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
I do gotta agree that federal prison seems a bit stiff for selling a little chuckle bait....hopefully some of it will get reduced or dropped and minimums instead of maximums will be considered...
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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╥π╬...
He would personally answer questions of consumption.
on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body
"Let's get together and feel alright" 
Variety is the spice of life!
, and had a stick up my ass
h
How many psychedelic users — in any country — actually give
Fuck I got to get out of this forum.
to Ythan and let him know.
<---- That's not popcorn, it's soylent green hot wings. People.
rpepper:
award.
even thow they've just been smacked over the head with it, seriously now are they doing this on purpose? because everything points towards it
on the Shroomery who were campaigning against Neurosoup are directly responsible for this... or at least are a BIG part of the reason it happened.
