|
 elemental762
Fraxinus
 
Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Frigid North Lands
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
 Sediment in LC after autoclaving
#11900454 - 01/25/10 05:50 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I've been seeing precipitate in my LC only after an autoclave cycle. This has occurred when none was present beforehand, regardless of whether or not I filtered it beforehand. I'm using a 2% dextrose and 2% extra light ME solution. Could this be related to my use of Extra light ME instead of simply Light ME?
Does anybody know why this may be?
--------------------
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.
-H.G. Wells
|
 badman
It begins again
Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: elemental762]
#11906660 - 01/26/10 03:51 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Caramelised sugars and denatured proteins crashing out of solution. Look into peptone, its the dogs bollocks.
|
fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: badman]
#11906928 - 01/26/10 04:46 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
> Could this be related to my use of Extra light ME instead of simply Light ME?
Could be. You'll get different effects from different types of malt. I often have the same problem and also have extra light malt.
It's not a problem though. The precipitate is not a problem for growth.
-FF
|
99BOOMERMAN
The Professional
Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 539
Loc: USA 
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: fastfred]
#11952779 - 02/03/10 05:28 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
It used to happen to me no matter what,until I started filtering once after sterilization, then repeating sterilization just less time and careful not to overheat the mixture. As said above,this is due to caramelizing sugars.
--------------------
Anything posted in this thread is just some well thought out bull-shit,which is completely for entertainment purposes only.
AMU "Q&A's Thread"
INGENIOUS MONO TUB LINER
|
FNFAL
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 191
Last seen: 2 months, 4 days
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: 99BOOMERMAN]
#11952900 - 02/03/10 06:34 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I've had the same problem but it never seemed to slow or prevent the growth of the mycelium so it doesn't bother me. It is good to know what causes it though. I only pc for 15 min. at 15 psi. so I don't know how I could be overheating it. I think I'll try it for 10 minutes and see if the results change
|
CheeWiz
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 263
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: FNFAL]
#11960009 - 02/04/10 06:46 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Hi elemental762; This has been a question that comes up all the time here at this and the other sites down the road. The term caramelized is used very loosely in the preparation of medium for microbiology. In this day and age it just means the over processing of a medium with heat to the point where its nutrients become denatured and not fully available for use by the organisms you're trying to grow in or on it. Sometimes this can be as simple as the brake down of an essential vitamin or other growth factor to seeing vary-vary small threads flouting around in a LC due to some of the starches and proteins that have colligate and coagulated. True caramelizing happens at much higher temperatures than what most people will use when preparing and sterilizing a medium, but is possible thou.
Most times what people are seeing is the dissolved minerals and other solids found in the water (especially tap water) along with the ash (what would be left if all the organic compounds, proteins, starches and sugars, ex. are removed) that’s a natural part of malt extracts and can vary by that type malt extract and how it’s prepared. Both the dissolved minerals/solids and ash will precipitate out of solution when it’s heated leaving you with a sediment. That's why it’s best to start with RO or even better DI water when preparing a medium. As for malt extract what you end up with is what you started with and will vary from one lot to the next somewhat being it’s a natural product.
Things that naturally precipitate out solution to form a settlement rarely seems to slow or prevent the growth of the mycelium for most people, so I wouldn’t worry about it. In fact the only people I’ve seen that have made a big issue over it was Hippie 3 and the children who live down the lane. He was down on any one who didn’t use clear corn syrup and clear water so that they would have a perfectly clear LC so it seemed and I personally felt that was motivated mostly by getting clean looking pictures to display on his web site. Simply put, so his site would look sharp to the unknowing or simple minded and had little to do with being able to spot contamination in a LC. The truth is that the only way to spot (putting a side gross contamination) and test for contamination in a LC is to draw up a sample, stain it, spin it down in a centrifuge and check it out under a microscope. I hope this is of some help; Hipster
Edited by CheeWiz (02/04/10 09:57 AM)
|
fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: CheeWiz]
#11961301 - 02/04/10 10:56 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
True caramelizing happens at much higher temperatures than what most people will use when preparing and sterilizing a medium, but is possible thou.
Carmelization is not a scientific term. By definition it refers to any darkening of the medium due to heat. It has nothing to due with the Maillard reaction other than it being a potential source.
The term seems to have become pretty bastardized. It's used a lot with cooking and people seem determined to tie it to sugars and +300F temps. However, in proper terms as we are using it, it refers to carmel the color, not carmel the flavor.
Quote:
In fact the only people I’ve seen that have made a big issue over it was Hippie3 and the children who live down the lane.
Hippie3 is the biggest douchebag I've ever met online. He steals copyrighted content from here and changes it to diss the shroomery. He's a big baby and loves to cry. If you disagree with him and he can't win the argument he'll ban you for no reason. I don't know why anyone would visit that shitty and insignificant site.
-FF
|
CheeWiz
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 263
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: fastfred]
#11961557 - 02/04/10 11:47 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Hi Fastfred; I think that both of us would agree that by the time your medium starts taking on a Carmel color you scorched it and would be of quest able use. Other wise it's just semantics and a personal choice of words, which I agree with you for the most part.
Amen to what you said about Hippie3. Here's a reprint of a post I made on another site after I learned he died and this site was down at the time: Posted 31 December 2009
Hi; there are many of us who felt Hippie3 was an ass hole, plagiarist and pirate who never had an original idea but would take others as his own. Back in 2005 he PM me asking if he could rewrite and use for the archives a post that I made and had a lot of time in. When I asked if I would get credit for the original post he told me no and when I wouldn't consent he threatened me, pulled my posts and banned me from Mycotopia. When I moved over to Shroomery using the same name he stared to f ck with me over there saying where ever I could go he was going to find and f ck with me! I hate to say this but I’m not sad he died. Does this make me somewhat less of a person right now, maybe but that’s the way I truly feel. If you want people to have warm and fuzzy feelings about you when you're dead then don’t treat people like shit when you’re alive. So why am I crying? Deep down I admired his wit and the fact he lived life his way. My condolences go out to his wife and family... Peace Hippie3, have a great journey; Hipster
|
fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: CheeWiz]
#11989450 - 02/08/10 04:02 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks for the update!
I'm glad that he won't be stealing any more material from here and changing it to bash the shroomery.
IMHO the guy was a complete ass and we're better off without him.
-FF
|
valleyboy
Stranger
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 65
Loc: near the beach
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: fastfred]
#11993376 - 02/09/10 03:21 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, sounds like he was a thief and a liar. I don't really know the other half of the story,but with so much of a one sided story I'm just going to say too bad it didn't happen sooner.
--------------------
Indecision is the key to flexibility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
|
valleyboy
Stranger
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 65
Loc: near the beach
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: valleyboy]
#11993379 - 02/09/10 03:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
......... Oh and the reason I ended up on here was that I made an LC with honey, it seemed to have a lot of mycelium in it, I tried on WBS jars and so far nothing. About the same time I did some spores on WBS jars and those are growing fine. I keep one of those on my desk, just to watch it grow.
I love this hobby.
--------------------
Indecision is the key to flexibility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
|
KillaFoRilla
Heretic
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 1,519
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
|
Re: Sediment in LC after autoclaving [Re: badman]
#12008908 - 02/11/10 11:57 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
badman said:
Caramelised sugars and denatured proteins crashing out of solution. Look into peptone, its the dogs bollocks.
This happens to me when I use raw sugar, but sometimes it really helps. When the myc colonizes and eats the setiments away I am left with some nice fluffy myc floating around. I highly recommend putting in a marble or stir bar. It really helps to break the myc up and evenly distribute it in the jar.
EDIT: I'll post a pic when I get home.
Edited by KillaFoRilla (02/11/10 12:02 PM)
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
