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 Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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 Meditation!   2
#11938930 - 01/31/10 09:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Welcome!
This thread is a dedication to meditation and the exploration of meditation.
It is a landmark thread for me.
It serves to mark the temporal landscape. To travel through time with me.
I encourage any who are interested to use it similarly.
And for those interested in the Western perspective of mindfulness, there will be elements of a brand new type of therapy involved. What is referred to as a third generation therapy. Evidence suggests that this third generation therapy results in increased satisfaction with life, increased mindfulness, and a decrease in negative affect.These effects occur not only in ill individuals, but also in normal populations. Therefore it seems it will be beneficial to any who would like to participate. The therapy is referred to as Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy and gaining the benefits falls solely on the shoulders of the participant. It is your duty to do the homework, as it were. To meditate, and to record. This forum is the perfect place to record information and I would encourage those interested to do so. It is not only an easy place to record that we all visit, but it's also encouraging for others.
If you're confused as to what this really entitles, let the thread develop and jump in whenever you want.
Good luck. I hope I'm not going it alone 
Edited by Kickle (02/01/10 08:52 AM)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle]
#11938993 - 01/31/10 10:00 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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The first piece of this is to get an idea of how mindful you currently are. The downside to this is that many here are versed in Buddhist thought already. According to the makers of this mindfulness measure, that can cause you to mislead yourself. Try to be as honest as possible. Pay attention to any desire to go with what you know is ideal. You're only judging yourself here.
The purpose of this inventory is to characterize your experience of mindfulness. Please use the last 30 days as the time-frame to consider each item. Provide an answer the for every statement as best you can. Please answer as honestly and spontaneously as possible. There are neither ‘right’ nor ‘wrong’ answers, nor ‘good’ or ‘bad’ responses. What is important to us is your own personal experience.
1 2 3 4
Rarely Occasionally Fairly often Almost always
I am open to the experience of the present moment.
1 2 3 4
I sense my body, whether eating, cooking, cleaning or talking.
1 2 3 4
When I notice an absence of mind, I gently return to the experience of the here and now.
1 2 3 4
I am able to appreciate myself.
1 2 3 4
I pay attention to what’s behind my actions.
1 2 3 4
I see my mistakes and difficulties without judging them.
1 2 3 4
I feel connected to my experience in the here-and-now.
1 2 3 4
I accept unpleasant experiences.
1 2 3 4
I am friendly to myself when things go wrong.
1 2 3 4
I watch my feelings without getting lost in them.
1 2 3 4
In difficult situations, I can pause without immediately reacting.
1 2 3 4
I experience moments of inner peace and ease, even when things get hectic and stressful.
1 2 3 4
I am impatient with myself and with others.
1 2 3 4
I am able to smile when I notice how I sometimes make life difficult.
1 2 3 4
Scoring Information:
Add up all items to get one summary score. When scoring, please observe that the item “I am impatient with myself and with others.” should be scored in reverse. 4 is 1, 3 is 2, 2 is 3, and 1 is 4.
This total is your self-reported mindfulness. There is no need to post this unless you want, but writing it down somewhere would be good. The reason behind this measure is to give a baseline. As this thread progresses, we will periodically check in on our mindfulness scores to see if meditation is in fact making us more mindful.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle]
#11939272 - 01/31/10 10:37 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Let's start simply enough.
For those just getting into meditation, try a guided audio. A body scan might be a good start.
Ambitious? Try the 45 minute version - 64MB
Just want to get your feet wet? Try the 20 minute version
If you've been meditating for a while and don't want to try the audios above, take this time to meditate in your preferred manner.
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ocarina
C9H13NO3 + C8H11NO3 = >8)
Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 249
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle]
#11940027 - 02/01/10 01:21 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fire, theres fire in my eyes, you liar, fucking fire you got that, you will never conquer me... 14, by the way, is it strange to miss the fear?
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ocarina
C9H13NO3 + C8H11NO3 = >8)
Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 249
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Meditation! [Re: ocarina]
#11940156 - 02/01/10 02:11 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow man, that was great. Being felt up by the voiced other in such a charming way, now I got to take a shit.
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 The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle]
#11941183 - 02/01/10 09:26 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Meditation is fun 
I rarely sit anymore, but meditation is all i am
Eating happens in meditation, sleeping happens in meditation, posting here, happens in meditation
I dont do any of those things, those things happen in meditation, in awareness
No moment when awareness is not
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,432
Loc: NY
Last seen: 38 minutes, 2 seconds
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But where do you find the time to stress and fear? 
--------------------
astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
  
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Fear happens in meditation & stress happens in meditation 
If there's an opposite to meditation it would be losing self focus, not fear, stress, anger or anything like that
Granted, fear, anger & stress usually only can come when self focus is lost, but theres no rules, they can come in meditation & not be interpreted as a hinderance, they can even be welcomed, if stress comes up, trying to get rid ofit makes a stink, more stress, if you welcome it, nothing can take you over!
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Indeed. And since you mention eating, this is a good time to introduce the raisin meditation.
If you've never tried to eat mindfully, this is a great introduction.
Find a raisin.
Take it in your hand.
Really look at it. Look it over, notice its texture and color. See if you can find where it was once connected to a larger whole, its belly button as it were. As you turn it in your hand, taking in all angles and sides, notice the sensations on your hand. Maybe take a minute to run a finger over the surface of the raisin. Take note of the pressure you are applying and the effect that has on your sensation. Maybe try increasing and decreasing the pressure you apply when feeling the raisin. Carefully observe your fingers and how they effortlessly listen to your commands. Change the pressure? Ok, no problem. It's practically automatic... But don't let it be. Observe what happens when you tell your body to do something....
mind and body connected
Take the raisin to your ear if you want. Keep rolling it between your fingers. Can you hear it? How often do you listen to your food. It's not uncommon for food to make noise, whether it be a sizzle or the piercing sound of a fork. Have you ever listened to a raisin before? Is this the first time it has made a sound? Or was your attention elsewhere?
mind and body connected
Lift the raisin towards your mouth. Stop... don't put it in. We so often just shovel food into our mouths... we know what to expect. Does your mouth begin to water? Can you feel the salivation? Your body knows what to expect. Your mind knows what to expect. But the food is not yet in your mouth. Be aware of the separation between the food and these other sensations. We can create these sensations from expectation alone. Your mind is always connected to your body.
Finally, take the raisin into your mouth. Chew it and really take in the flavor. Keep chewing, and be aware of the urge to swallow. Keep chewing, and chewing, and chewing until all the flavor is gone. Feel the texture, how your mouth positions the food. Your urge to swallow. We do this on auto-pilot most times we eat. Bring awareness to the way you chew and swallow your food. And finally, swallow the remnants of the raisin. Be with the raisin for as long as you can, following it down your esophagus and into your belly. Perhaps even imagining the journey.
If you do try this exercise, let me know what the experience was like for you.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Meditation is fun
I rarely sit anymore, but meditation is all i am
Eating happens in meditation, sleeping happens in meditation, posting here, happens in meditation
I dont do any of those things, those things happen in meditation, in awareness
No moment when awareness is not
I chuckle every time I see a study that is attempting to quantify time spent in meditative practice to mental health. For example I just recently read a study that was looking at reactivity to negative events in terms of thoughts. Naturally, those who do not have a meditation practice had the highest reactivity. Those who were in a mindfulness course were lower. Then they put in a third group of long-time practitioners. These folks were the lowest, but they didn't necessarily spend the most time in meditation.
Of course this is useless information for a scientist who relies on concrete links to draw a conclusion. So they simply say that no relationship between time spent in practice and reactivity could be found.
But how else do you look at it? What does a practitioner of mindfulness look like if they're not practicing? How do you know they are working on mindfulness? Are they doing anything observably different than the average person? And of course, without the behavior to back it up, we cannot simply take your word for it. That's so subjective and so unscientific.
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle]
#11941606 - 02/01/10 10:53 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I chuckle every time I see a study that is attempting to quantify time spent in meditative practice to mental health. For example I just recently read a study that was looking at reactivity to negative events in terms of thoughts. Naturally, those who do not have a meditation practice had the highest reactivity. Those who were in a mindfulness course were lower. Then they put in a third group of long-time practitioners. These folks were the lowest, but they didn't necessarily spend the most time in meditation.
Of course this is useless information for a scientist who relies on concrete links to draw a conclusion. So they simply say that no relationship between time spent in practice and reactivity could be found.
But how else do you look at it? What does a practitioner of mindfulness look like if they're not practicing? How do you know they are working on mindfulness? Are they doing anything observably different than the average person? And of course, without the behavior to back it up, we cannot simply take your word for it. That's so subjective and so unscientific.
At the end of the day how do you measure satisfaciton & happiness?
Whether chemical reactions in your brain are taking place? Or by how you feel?
Why rely on the measurable to realize the immeasurable?
(why use finite techniques to realize the infinte?)
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Most measures are required to predict something.
A measure of depression for example should predict how likely a person is to attempt suicide.
High scores on a depression measure should predict high suicidality
Low scores should predict low suicidality.
Happiness then should do the same thing.
Over time, we start using a measure that has been shown to be predictive to determine related concepts. So, if we have a depression measure that is very predictive of suicide, we would expect a scale on happiness/satisfaction to be negatively correlated with this measure. A -1.0 would be a perfect correlation, meaning that the two measures are looking at polar opposites of each other. I've never seen a perfect correlation in my life, but -.8 to -.9 is pretty common, indicating that the measures are getting at something very similar.
And on and on and on this goes. Each new test provides new information about a new concept which is then pinned against an older concept which then provides new information about what that older concept was really looking at. Measurements are constantly being refined in order to have greater certainty that what is being measured is really what we think is being measured.
All the same, we are limited to our experience, and that's what makes me laugh. I think that's what you're saying as well.
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle]
#11941750 - 02/01/10 11:21 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
All the same, we are limited to our experience, and that's what makes me laugh. I think that's what you're saying as well.
Yep, who prefers measuring happiness over being & feeling happy?
Although i think measuring what we imagine we derive happiness from can be helpful, to understand what acually causes happiness.
I know im most happy when i have no reason to be happy, its just there shining by itself
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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I use the measures so that I can have a western vocabulary for what has long been.
Some people just respond to such terminology better. I should broaden as I deepen.
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Tony
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/09
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle] 1
#11942011 - 02/01/10 12:13 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
When I notice an absence of mind, I gently return to the experience of the here and now.
What's the difference between having an absence of mind and experiencing the here and now?
I daydream a lot and I sort of feel like it's a bad thing, but I can't really put my finger on it, if you know what I mean. Like, even if I'm lost in some stupid fantasy or whatnot, I'm still AFAICS in the moment because that fantasy is arising in the moment just like everything else. The fantasy is just one more experience that can be focused on. Why is it any worse than, say, observing your bodily movements or visual experience or whatever? I guess this should be obvious as hell, but for some reason it's not 
Maybe I'm a daydream addict..
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Tony]
#11942039 - 02/01/10 12:20 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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The whole 'be here now' philosophy...
It is seeking presence, but presence already is here, what we are really seeking is our own absence.
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Tony
Stranger
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Oh, I get it. You have to look for what you're missing and discover that the answer is nothing, am I right? 
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Tony]
#11942136 - 02/01/10 12:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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In a way yeah, the whole spiritual search is for something more, like somethings missing
But infinity is always whole, its not missing anything, so really you can't attain union with the infinite, you can only remove your imagined separation
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Tony]
#11942144 - 02/01/10 12:50 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tony said:
Quote:
When I notice an absence of mind, I gently return to the experience of the here and now.
What's the difference between having an absence of mind and experiencing the here and now?
I daydream a lot and I sort of feel like it's a bad thing, but I can't really put my finger on it, if you know what I mean. Like, even if I'm lost in some stupid fantasy or whatnot, I'm still AFAICS in the moment because that fantasy is arising in the moment just like everything else. The fantasy is just one more experience that can be focused on. Why is it any worse than, say, observing your bodily movements or visual experience or whatever? I guess this should be obvious as hell, but for some reason it's not
Maybe I'm a daydream addict..
You daydream in the present, yep indeed.
But at the same time, your body keeps doing its thing.
It isn't "worse" to focus on daydreaming than your body, but your body does get neglected.
If you never pay it any attention, the small issues that arise can turn into large issues.
Paying your natural processes some attention can have drastic effects.
You don't have to wait until you are forced to pay attention, to pay attention.
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Tony
Stranger
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Re: Meditation! [Re: Kickle]
#11942342 - 02/01/10 01:24 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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So it's about getting away from repetitious patterns and focusing on things that normally escape your attention, so as to balance things out between different types of awareness and reach a more holistic appreciation of the self?
Actually I already do spend some time focusing on my body sensations, and I often feel a kind of electric sensation(for lack of a better word) in my upper back. Although it's not specifically unpleasant, I'm pretty sure it's indicative of poor posture and too much time spent at the terminal instead of exercising. I can see why many people would avoid this kind of practice, since it brings physiological problems into your awareness.
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