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 bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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 Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS)  [Re: Fahkface]
#12082000 - 02/23/10 08:07 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok so now were talking just substrate and no casing. the coir,verm etc keeps enough humidity I suppose...(gypsum is builders plaster no?)
So with this kind of mixture, one would wait for the surface to be colonised as in white fuzzy myc everywhere for it to fruit? wheras with a casing, one would wait to see the myc just poking through in the valleys of the casing? the fact that coir is slightly nutritious compared to a peat casing, requires the myc to completely consume the substrate before going into fruiting mode?
must get my hands on wax paper, but I live in france, and not sure what they call it here. used for cooking aint it? like greaseproof paper?
Ive read a few debates about coir vs peat casing
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend
Registered: 12/11/06
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12082120 - 02/23/10 08:52 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Coir is a substrate, while peat is a casing layer.
Coir isn't just slightly nutritious, but very nutritious for mushrooms. Peat isn't.
You got that colonizing thing right, yes.
Yes, gypsum is also used in construction work, but also in gardens. It provides calcium and sulfur, which are required for proper fruit body development, as well as it tends to prevent acidic PH swings, caused by the mushrooms metabolism.
It works without gypsum, just not as well.
Quote:
must get my hands on wax paper, but I live in france, and not sure what they call it here. used for cooking aint it? like greaseproof paper?
I think it's the same thing. Just like baking paper.
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Fahkface]
#12087321 - 02/24/10 06:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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would you recommend mixing the spawn(colonised rye grain)and coir, or having one layer of spawn and one layer of substrate ontop?
In magashs tek (which I was originally following but without the martha setup, and I'm using peat instead of coir)he puts one layer coir, one layer spawn and another layer coir. He calls the coir a casing layer. So this is not correct? Peat on the contrary IS a casing layer.
http://www.shroomery.org/8432/From-syringe-to-print-using-rye
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend
Registered: 12/11/06
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Loc: In your Mind, Pedro! In y...
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12087631 - 02/24/10 08:48 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd mix the spawn and the substrate. Due to the increased and more distributed number of inoculation points, the substrate colonizes faster.
You have to use coir though. Peat won't work since it's -as you correctly assumed- a casing material.
Coir, on the other hand is indeed a substrate and covering a spawn with coir is nothing but covering it with a layer of substrate.
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Fahkface]
#12093250 - 02/25/10 02:24 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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a few pics of the first flush (about 1 or 2 weeks ago)
damn side pinning looks ok
out of its tub to pick easier
a differnet tub
a day or two later
and the second flush coming, dont look great
All that surface area just not being used
Its tempting to move on to different tequniques when one doesnt turn out quite how you would like it...but I think its a good idea to stick with it and why not have a second project with a differnt tek at the same time ey?
Ex: last time I did this tek (but was with brf cakes cased with same stuff) I had like 2 or 3 shrooms on the surface as my first flush, so things are getting better
just hope I get a few good flushes
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12093510 - 02/25/10 05:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll definetly try coir next time if I can get my hands on some.
Do you think my chances of having an even pinset are better with coir?
I'm diferenciating between side pinning and even pinset, because my side pins were even, as in they all grew pretty much at the same time.
Ive heard that coir tends to encourage more pins, but smaller overall fruits. who needs huge fruit anyway?
Ive also heard that with coir, the time to initiate pinning (put in FC) is so much more critical than with peat casing.
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12093580 - 02/25/10 06:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Side pins normally appear, when the conditions on the sides are better than on top. Most of the time a little gap between the substrate and the sides of the tray is responsible for it, that appeared, because the substrate is dried out.
The surface of your casings look awfully dry. This might be the picture, though. It needs to be damp and airy.
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Fahkface]
#12093639 - 02/25/10 07:12 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well as soon as the pins came, I stopped misting so thats why the casings became dry...(even though I did once mist while protecting the pins from the spray which was pretty complicated) otherwise before pinning, the surface had been kept at near saturation like on the last photo.
Oh and I'm wondering why theres a spot of myc coming through(last picture, top right tub)
all these side pins makes me want to break the cakes into about 4 pieces, but without taking them out of the tubs, filling the gaps with verm and voila!
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend
Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 4,821
Loc: In your Mind, Pedro! In y...
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12093671 - 02/25/10 07:29 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are not suppose to stop misting. Wax paper can help to maintain surface humidity, which can help when you don't want to mist all that often, because the water can't evaporate from the substrate after you've misted.
I use wax paper in my hole-less glass terrariums, that don't provide too much FAE.
However, misting is extremely important, to refill the substrates water reserves.
If you notice, that the surface gets dry you have to mist, no matter if you use any kind of paper to support surface humidity.
As you can see, you should have misted.
Rehydrate that casing layer, give the substrate a good dunk and provide plenty of FAE. Hopefully that will make the next flushes to appear better.
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 Stillmatic9142
Learner
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 797
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12093672 - 02/25/10 07:29 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Misting doesn't cause aborts, not fanning well enough and still-water causes aborts.
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In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists & will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-former President & 5 Star General, Dwight D Eisenhower's farewell address to the Nation
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend
Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 4,821
Loc: In your Mind, Pedro! In y...
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Stillmatic9142]
#12093677 - 02/25/10 07:30 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Misting doesn't cause aborts, not fanning well enough and still-water causes aborts.
Indeed!
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Fahkface]
#12093877 - 02/25/10 08:45 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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OK I'll try dunking for my third flush cos the second one has already started. I suspect I should have misted more frequently but less at a time also.
When you say dunk the substrate, that would mean dunking the casing layer also? Unless I filled the tubs up to the point of the casing for 12 hrs, and then just drained by turning upside down.
I'm fanning 4-6 times daily with the lid of the FC, do you think thats enough?
I'm gonna retry the same method before going on to bulk substrate, and so I need to list the solutions to the flaws...
So far off the top of my head they would be:
Using black lining so theres no gap between the substrate and the tub.
Laying wax paper down immediatly after putting into FC.
Misting more often but in small quantities.
Maybe even add an air pump but they are noisy, even the silent ones!
(basiclly trying to encourage constant transpiration of the top surface)
But if I think longer I will probably find a few more
Do you think I can dunk at this stage? the second flush is only starting, and the few pins that are there are still small.
Amazing hobby! luckily experianced people are here to help so thanks a bunch!
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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Stillmatic9142
Learner
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 797
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Fahkface]
#12093902 - 02/25/10 08:58 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Fahkface said:
Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Misting doesn't cause aborts, not fanning well enough and still-water causes aborts.
Indeed!
Slowly but surely learning!
--------------------
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists & will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-former President & 5 Star General, Dwight D Eisenhower's farewell address to the Nation
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Stillmatic9142]
#12093943 - 02/25/10 09:12 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah I'm trying not to repeat myself and ask the same questions too much! As I dont have much time on the net I sometimes dont concentrate on how to formulate my posts...I'm at work right now, which is my only access to the net
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend
Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 4,821
Loc: In your Mind, Pedro! In y...
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Stillmatic9142]
#12094196 - 02/25/10 10:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Quote:
Fahkface said:
Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Misting doesn't cause aborts, not fanning well enough and still-water causes aborts.
Indeed!
Slowly but surely learning!
Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Quote:
Fahkface said:
Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Misting doesn't cause aborts, not fanning well enough and still-water causes aborts.
Indeed!
Slowly but surely learning!
???
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Stillmatic9142
Learner
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 797
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Fahkface]
#12094221 - 02/25/10 10:07 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Quote:
Fahkface said:
Quote:
Stillmatic9142 said:
Misting doesn't cause aborts, not fanning well enough and still-water causes aborts.
Indeed!
Slowly but surely learning!
???
I'm just saying that I'm surely learning, it might be going slow, but I am learning lol
--------------------
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists & will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-former President & 5 Star General, Dwight D Eisenhower's farewell address to the Nation
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: Stillmatic9142]
#12099715 - 02/26/10 01:22 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I thought you were refering to me actually!
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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anonjon
Partially Right
Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12100349 - 02/26/10 07:07 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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regarding the side pinning / lack of pinning on top, looks to me like that top layer of coir was thicker than half an inch and it looks like you fruited it before the top layer was colonized.
When you do coir you want the top to be all white. if u doing 50/50 casing, you're fine to go ahead when it's just peeking thru. but not coir. Sometimes coir will pin on top before becoming fully colonized, but that usually means the top has dried out. Ideally it should look solid white.
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The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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bassfrequences
shroomslovemusic
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: france
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: anonjon]
#12100396 - 02/26/10 07:31 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm using peat, verm and oyster shell casing! And it was about half an inch thick, I might take it down to a third of an inch next time though...Yep so I did fruit before the top layer was colonised which is the way to do it with a peat casing at least I hope Ive got that right!
I think the biggest problem was that since the sides pinned before the surface (which still hasnt pinned), they got all the nutrients for that flush, as the block of myc has gone into fruiting mode...
Wheras if the sides had not pinned before the rest, I would probably have waited a few more days for pinning, but they would more likely be all over the surface. Does that make sense?
Since the pins come in flushes and once its started, not many other pins form, if some form in the easist spots for them to form, the nutes go to the fruit that are already ther and not to the formation of pins?
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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit
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anonjon
Partially Right
Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Should I fruit? HELP mycelium problem (PICS) [Re: bassfrequences]
#12101623 - 02/26/10 11:53 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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i don't think the nutrients travel very far. The areas where there is more spawn tend to pin better than others.
So in this case, I'm thinking the top was just too dry as someone else suggested.
It may fruit just fine next flush.
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The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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