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OfflineHenri Bergson
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Liberty Caps vs Cubensis
    #11720072 - 12/26/09 07:03 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Could someone give a detailed description of the differences between the two, all other things being equal.

Here in the UK, I don't think the latter grow in the wild, so I have never tried them.
Better: Liberty Caps or P. Cubensis?
You may choose only one
Liberty Caps (P. Semilanceata)
P. Cubensis


Votes accepted from (12/26/09 07:02 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



Edited by Henri Bergson (12/26/09 09:04 AM)


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OfflineLucas89
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Henri Bergson]
    #11720087 - 12/26/09 07:09 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

4-hydroxy-nn-dimethytryptamine is 4-hydroxy-nn-dimethyltryptamine :shrug:

one species just contains more.


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Offlinenice1
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Lucas89]
    #11720095 - 12/26/09 07:13 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Thats not true.  Theres psilocybin, psilocin, norbaeocystin and baeocystin that I know of. 


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OfflineLucas89
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: nice1]
    #11720112 - 12/26/09 07:21 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

i know that, but nonetheless, there is very little to no difference in effects between different species.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Lucas89]
    #11720121 - 12/26/09 07:25 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lucas89 said:
i know that, but nonetheless, there is very little to no difference in effects between different species.




I don't know about between these two particular species, but otherwise your statement is very false.


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InvisibleLobsterSauce
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: the bizzle]
    #11720142 - 12/26/09 07:36 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Liberty caps have a higher psilocin to pilocybin ratio than cubes(I think). I know psilocybin is converted to psilocin upon ingestion but it must make a difference.

I also think that libs have a higher baeocystin content than cubes which also probably makes a difference. Libs are stronger than any legally store bought cubes I've ever had.

I believe Mexicans are the weakest cubes. We are talking by weight here. Some strains/varieties have more goodies than others.:shrug:


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Offlinenice1
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Lucas89]
    #11720143 - 12/26/09 07:36 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

The amounts of those different compounds varies from species to species meaning different species should have different effects.

Its like saying all weed has the same effect.  Of course it doesn't because theres 120+ known cannabinoids (each different compounds with different effects) which make up the entire effect of getting stoned. 


The main problem is you can't really prove if a subjective experience is different or not.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: nice1]
    #11720151 - 12/26/09 07:42 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

And? What are you trying to imply? I think you folks are headfucking yourselves too much over these things. Baeocystin (or N-Norpsilocybin as it is also called) is so closely related to psilocybin that you can't expect its effects to differ from those of psilocybin.

PSILOCYBIN:



BAEOCYSTIN:



It always makes me chuckle when people talk about their "profoundly different trips" when comparing cubes to other psilocybian mushrooms because "that species contains more/less (nor)baeocystin and/or psilocybin/psilocin". That's bullshit, plain and simple. It's all in your head, nothing more and nothing less, so let's get two facts straight, shall we?
1) Psilocybin is metabolized into psilocin 1:1 (one molecule is turned into another at a 1:1 ratio) losing its phosphoryl group in the process. (This also means that when comparing the pure substance by weight, psilocin is about 1.4 times as potent as psilocybin, because the phosphoryl group is "dead weight")
2) "baeocystin and norbaeocystin are just psilocybin with one methyl and two methyls respectively lopped off" (source: erowid)

Saying different strains of cubes are causing different trips are purely subjective statements. The difference is in your state of mind and total raw amount of active chemicals consumed only. Everything else is esoteric mumbojumbo and about as "scientific" as saying the constellation of the stars influence your personality (the goddamn midwife has more gravitational impact on the newborn baby than all planets combined).


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OfflineLucas89
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: German Kahuna]
    #11720176 - 12/26/09 07:54 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

thank you.


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Offlinenice1
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: German Kahuna]
    #11720188 - 12/26/09 08:01 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

That's bullshit, plain and simple.




Prove it.

You can't because as I said the experience is subjective.  Even if you had pure baeocystin to compare to psilocybin the effect is still subjective.

The differences may be subtle or they may not - nobody can prove either way but fact is they exist.  Lucas your original post is misleading because it doesn't even acknowledge their existence.  That is all.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: nice1]
    #11720215 - 12/26/09 08:12 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Ahaha! That's rich. It's like Christians saying "prove that there is no GOD". Of course you CAN'T. I prefer "knowing" over "believing", however. Belief is a concept that hasn't ever appealed to me much. I've been tripping on mushrooms for a quarter of a century now and can say for sure that the experience varies from trip to trip (even with same amounts of the same species), not from species to species (provided the amounts taken are proportionally equal, of course).


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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Offlinenice1
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: German Kahuna]
    #11720229 - 12/26/09 08:18 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I prefer "knowing" over "believing"




Same here and I know baeocystin exists.

You believe its effects cannot be any different from psilocin.  I know its possible that they are!  :grin:


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OfflineSerialDiscrepancy
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: German Kahuna]
    #11720235 - 12/26/09 08:22 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

different trip experiences between species are subjective...but we do know different species can have higher potency then others


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InvisibleLobsterSauce
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: German Kahuna]
    #11720237 - 12/26/09 08:22 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

So you don't think libs are stronger than cubes gram for gram?


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OfflineLucas89
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #11720243 - 12/26/09 08:24 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

thats simply an un-deniable fact.


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InvisibleTangich


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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Lucas89]
    #11720287 - 12/26/09 08:49 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

If you want different mushroom experience, eat a muscaria.
Even if different psilocybe species have different effects, it is almost impossible to tell, because as Kahuna said, each trip experience is different.


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OfflineHenri Bergson
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Tangich]
    #11720310 - 12/26/09 09:08 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

German:

Has it been, as far as you know, proved that 'one methyl and two methyls respectively lopped off' does not alter subjective effect? That's rhetorical because a subjective effect cannot be objectively quantified. Therefore I'm afraid your conclusion does not help us as it cannot be scientifically known.

As we're then talking of the subjective, I should like subjective accounts from users of both types.


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OfflineMCSteveyC
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Henri Bergson]
    #11720344 - 12/26/09 09:25 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

mushrooms are mushroom as long as they get you off your tits who cares...?


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Liberty Caps vs Cubensis [Re: Henri Bergson]
    #11720571 - 12/26/09 11:20 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

What I am saying is that I do not BELIEVE in attaching that type of urban shaman mysticism to everything. If you extracted the pure substances from the mushrooms and took a dose of psilocybin at one time and the exact same dose, say, a month later, the trip would most likely still be a somewhat different experience. Much more different than taking a mixture of 70% psilocybin and 30% baeocystin compared to 60% psilocybin and 40% baeocystin, which is about how much they vary by content in different active mushrooms (yes, I know, some more, some less, I am generalizing). What I am trying to say is that the primary difference is within yourself, not so much in "adding an extra methyl or two". Trust me, I've been eating all sorts of active mushrooms for a quarter of a century.

Maybe there are subtle differences, but they are certainly NOT of the nature that some folks attribute to them. When I read stuff like "strain x will cause a very mental high. Strain y will cause a much more visual high" it just makes me cringe.


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