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 AlphaFalfa
imagine
Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,569
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. 
Last seen: 1 hour, 1 minute
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 Burn the Pedophiles!
#11693262 - 12/21/09 02:58 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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In a recent threat in a anonymous forum, someone brought up pedophilia in a very edgy fashion.
There were many in that thread that were spewing violent nonsense, saying disembowel them, etc. Even one was adament on these violent actions, even after a study was brought up which showed that pedophilia was premeditated by a history of being molested.
What are your thoughts on this? Why the violent rash nonsense?
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 1 hour, 52 minutes
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#11693282 - 12/21/09 03:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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They want to kill the karma of molestation. No molester, no molesting. Nothing personal...
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#11693340 - 12/21/09 03:09 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said:
In a recent threat in a anonymous forum, someone brought up pedophilia in a very edgy fashion.
There were many in that thread that were spewing violent nonsense, saying disembowel them, etc. Even one was adament on these violent actions, even after a study was brought up which showed that pedophilia was premeditated by a history of being molested.
What are your thoughts on this? Why the violent rash nonsense?
I think this "outrage" is a cover up. It's based in fear. I think that many people have feelings of wanting to fuck some underage person and feel deep shame for this. They then rage out in public to cover it, to say to the world,"I'm not like that". Happens a lot if you read the news.
We seem to feel that just having a feeling or desire is in itself wrong. But we are animals with sex drives and we all have sex urges and fantasies we might consider unsavory. But they are all normal imo.
Acting on some of them is the real problem.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
 
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#11693537 - 12/21/09 03:38 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Acting on some of them is the real problem.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11694246 - 12/21/09 05:26 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Getting caught acting on them is the real problem.
Just kidding of course... 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11694256 - 12/21/09 05:28 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11694357 - 12/21/09 05:42 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Depends on how rich you manage to get money boy.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11694369 - 12/21/09 05:44 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,539
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11695265 - 12/21/09 08:17 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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What I am interested in is whether the problem is that pedophiles are lusting after children, that they are either physically or emotionally hurting the children, or that they are interacting with the children at all, that makes people so angry...
I just think theyre rapists
and rapists are bad, yeah, but apparently theyre everywhere
and then you gotta ask 'well was it an uncomfortable experience'
I mean what about someone who looks at kiddy porn. are they really doing anything wrong? Maybe, if these kids are being forced into it and the venture is funded by this audience member
Meh I just think that kids should know what is appropriate or not with another adult and if an adult forces something on a child then it is rape pure and simple, with the added weight of abusing responsibility as an adult in care, in many cases
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Noteworthy]
#11695311 - 12/21/09 08:25 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Meh I just think that kids should know what is appropriate or not with another adult and if an adult forces something on a child then it is rape pure and simple, with the added weight of abusing responsibility as an adult in care, in many cases
It really should be up to the child; when I was a kid, I would definitely not have minded fooling around with a girl who is my age right now (20). 
I agree with Sigmund Freud's theory of polyhmorphous perversity, which simply states that humans are born with the ability to derive sexual pleasure from any object; assuming that this theory is true, then that means there's nothing unnatural about being sexually attracted to children.
But yeah, rape is bad. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#11695485 - 12/21/09 08:47 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Disclamer:
I am not a pedophile.
However I do like jailbait, 15+.
Poast:
Not all pedos are rapists, and seeing as humans can achieve orgasm at ANY age I personally see the stigma against pedophilia as just that a stigma.
If sex is consensual why get so pissed about it?
However I can see why it must be illegal, and no laws arent there to distinguish "right" from "wrong" but to keep social order (which is the same purpose your learned sense of morality serves).
Children are very easily manipulated in to doing things they dont want to do and then never talking about it.
This is why it's illegal, not because there is some magical age when sex goes from being a horrendous atrocity the fitting punishment for which is death to the most beautiful thing in the world.
Why if people thought like that it would be illogical and ridiculous.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
awesomebastard said:
If sex is consensual why get so pissed about it?
Homo sapiens are incapable of giving consent until they're 18 years old. 
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
However I can see why it must be illegal, and no laws arent there to distinguish "right" from "wrong" but to keep social order (which is the same purpose your learned sense of morality serves).
Would you care to explain how laws which prohibit adults from having sex with a child "keep social order", since you are making this claim?
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
Children are very easily manipulated in to doing things they dont want to do and then never talking about it.
Not necessarily.
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
This is why it's illegal, not because there is some magical age when sex goes from being a horrendous atrocity the fitting punishment for which is death to the most beautiful thing in the world.
I'm not sure if that's the only reason why it's illegal...
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
Why if people thought like that it would be illogical and ridiculous.
Yeah, it would be...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11695566 - 12/21/09 08:58 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
If sex is consensual why get so pissed about it?
Homo sapiens are incapable of giving consent until they're 18 years old.
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
However I can see why it must be illegal, and no laws arent there to distinguish "right" from "wrong" but to keep social order (which is the same purpose your learned sense of morality serves).
Would you care to explain how laws which prohibit adults from having sex with a child "keep social order", since you are making this claim?
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
Children are very easily manipulated in to doing things they dont want to do and then never talking about it.
Not necessarily.
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
This is why it's illegal, not because there is some magical age when sex goes from being a horrendous atrocity the fitting punishment for which is death to the most beautiful thing in the world.
I'm not sure if that's the only reason why it's illegal...
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
Why if people thought like that it would be illogical and ridiculous.
Yeah, it would be...
I think you need to rethink how you read my posts.
I dont create all these little paragraphs because I'm starting a new topic but because I'm making my post easier to read.
Most of the questions you asked are already awnsered if you think even the tiniest bit and most of the statements you made are a result of you taking the sentence out of context.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Ok.
I'm just examining the specific claims which you are making, regardless of the context; if you don't want to respond to my rebuttals to your claims, then I suppose that is your choice.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (12/21/09 09:02 PM)
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abysmal
thundercunt
Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 80
Loc: serious
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11695839 - 12/21/09 09:37 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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silly pedos..
girls do not become attractive until the age of consent.
when will they ever learn?
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aghorrorag
NonExistent
Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Los Angeles
Last seen: 2 months, 5 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: abysmal]
#11696116 - 12/21/09 10:18 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think horrible torture should be the punishment because I guarantee that there would be less pedophiles acting on their desirs.
For example if the punishment for taking LSD was 7 years in prison... I'd probably still do it.
If the punishment was wild animals eating me alive, and I survived... only to be shot in the head a few days later... I probably wouldn't.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: aghorrorag]
#11696948 - 12/22/09 01:30 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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A long sentence in jail is a sufficient punishment as we all know the kind of justice these sick individuals get in a place like that.
I'm actually a supporter of capital punishment but not for crimes such as these. We also now have chemical castration drugs available so when they get out of prison so we can be reassured of the unlikelihood of crimes of that nature being repeated.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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The only thing castration would reassure is that they cannot use their sexual organs as before to commit the crimes. Other objects and means can be found to their ends.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
The only thing castration would reassure is that they cannot use their sexual organs as before to commit the crimes. Other objects and means can be found to their ends.
I was under the impression that castration eliminated sexual desires.
But sure, we cannot be certain that these people will not re-offend anyway, which is why they should receive harsh sentences and be monitored extensively upon release.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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I'm not educated in this area of criminology or psychology, but I thought castration was removing the testicles (producers of testosterone), ovaries or sexual organs, or to rend someone of their power. I suppose if we had very good medication, cut off a male offender's penis and testes, and beat their pedophilic drives into submission then we'll have castrated them so repeat offense is highly unlikely. We must remember though, pedophilia is not driven purely by hormones, but rather fantasy/psychological make-up and that even those castrated after puberty can get erections, have orgasms and sexual fantasies which they can act upon.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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To those who are not pederasts or pedophiles. Why are you not that?
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
I'm not educated in this area of criminology or psychology, but I thought castration was removing the testicles (producers of testosterone), ovaries or sexual organs, or to rend someone of their power. I suppose if we had very good medication, cut off a male offender's penis and testes, and beat their pedophilic drives into submission then we'll have castrated them so repeat offense is highly unlikely. We must remember though, pedophilia is not driven purely by hormones, but rather fantasy/psychological make-up and that even those castrated after puberty can get erections, have orgasms and sexual fantasies which they can act upon.
I'm not that educated on these subjects either, but what you say sounds plausible.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#11697614 - 12/22/09 07:36 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said:
In a recent threat in a anonymous forum, someone brought up pedophilia in a very edgy fashion.
There were many in that thread that were spewing violent nonsense, saying disembowel them, etc. Even one was adament on these violent actions, even after a study was brought up which showed that pedophilia was premeditated by a history of being molested.
What are your thoughts on this? Why the violent rash nonsense?
Every era has a witch hunt. We can only hope that it doesn't last 220 years
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11698883 - 12/22/09 12:08 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
aghorrorag said:
I think horrible torture should be the punishment because I guarantee that there would be less pedophiles acting on their desirs.
"No cruel and unusual punishment."
Quote:
aghorrorag said:
For example if the punishment for taking LSD was 7 years in prison... I'd probably still do it.
Do you agree that someone who takes LSD should go to prison for 7 years?
Quote:
aghorrorag said:
If the punishment was wild animals eating me alive, and I survived... only to be shot in the head a few days later... I probably wouldn't.
Why?
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
A long sentence in jail is a sufficient punishment as we all know the kind of justice these sick individuals get in a place like that.
From what I've heard, a lot of these people get killed by prisoners when they're in prison; is that a just punishment?
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
We also now have chemical castration drugs available so when they get out of prison so we can be reassured of the unlikelihood of crimes of that nature being repeated.
"No cruel and unusual punishment."
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Every era has a witch hunt. We can only hope that it doesn't last 220 years
Perhaps it's time for the witch-hunting era to end.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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AlphaFalfa
imagine
Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,569
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago.
Last seen: 1 hour, 1 minute
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11701329 - 12/22/09 05:24 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Poid, you will get better responses if you try and pick ONE thing or two things out, not all 7 - 10.
Icelander - I agree with all that you said, unless we have disagreements on some of the words you are using. I believe that most things are like that, even less controversial things. It is one of the most annoying things that happens in social situations, people covering their insecurities with hatred. I have no idea how to change it and find these people nearly impossible to even support for longer than one of these outlashes.
|I think these fears have alot to do with subconcious beliefs in divinity and punishment in the afterlife. I have a hard belief that most people are still christian deep down, they treat god much like they do their parents, they will stray but not to far.
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#11701343 - 12/22/09 05:26 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said:
Poid, you will get better responses if you try and pick ONE thing or two things out, not all 7 - 10.
It's what I do.
I guess some people just aren't here to debate...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11724817 - 12/27/09 06:23 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#11725570 - 12/27/09 10:09 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Violent reactivity is a good indicator of past victimization. When my Lady's mother said that her friend walked out on the movie 'Precious,' after incestuous rape was suggested, I replied by saying that her friend was undoubtedly molested herself. The elderly lady's reaction to me was in a whisper: "How did you know?!" "Elementary, Dr. Watson."
Personally, I have to categorize the 'fiddlers' from the actual 'diddlers,' and the pedophiles from the ephebophiles, which many of you younger Shroomerites are, probably, yourselves, IF you like post-pubescent females under the age of 18 (which is the age of full sexual consent in many states). In Florida, for example, one is prohibited by law from having sex until age 16, and then with someone who is no older than 23. Age 24 constitutes felony sexual battery. At age 18, one is considered mature enough to make informed decisions and can engage in sex with anyone, unless, of course, one teaches high school and has 18 or 19 year old students. But that is a matter of 'moral turpitude,' and while legal charges may not apply, someone is gonna get fired, and prevented from working in a similar capacity.
Sex with a child under the age of 12 is a capital offense, punishable by life imprisonment. Last week, down here in south Florida, a high school boy impersonated a police officer, carrying a tin badge, handcuffs, but no uniform, and forced a 9 year old boy into a portable toilet in a park, and sodomized him, while his 7 year old sister heard him screaming from outside the port-a-potty. They identified the assailant, who wiill probably be treated as an adult, convicted, imprisoned, and subjected to exactly the same treatment he perpetrated on the child.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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It's a finely oiled machinery this system of sexual abuse.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Personally, I have to categorize the 'fiddlers' from the actual 'diddlers,' and the pedophiles from the ephebophiles, which many of you younger Shroomerites are, probably, yourselves, IF you like post-pubescent females under the age of 18 (which is the age of full sexual consent in many states).
You think of sex like it's a big deal or something...
What do you think is worse: getting the shit beaten out of you, or getting raped?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
In Florida, for example, one is prohibited by law from having sex until age 16, and then with someone who is no older than 23.
Why?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Age 24 constitutes felony sexual battery.
Even if there was no actual battery involved?
From battery - Free Online Dictionary:
Quote:
battery
1.
a. The act of beating or pounding.
b. Law The unlawful and unwanted touching or striking of one person by another, with the intention of bringing about a harmful contact.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
At age 18, one is considered mature enough to make informed decisions and can engage in sex with anyone, unless, of course, one teaches high school and has 18 or 19 year old students.
That's extremely stupid, IMO, and I think anyone should be allowed to have sex with anyone they want to, and whenever they both consent to do so.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
But that is a matter of 'moral turpitude,' and while legal charges may not apply, someone is gonna get fired, and prevented from working in a similar capacity.
I suppose.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Sex with a child under the age of 12 is a capital offense, punishable by life imprisonment. Last week, down here in south Florida, a high school boy impersonated a police officer, carrying a tin badge, handcuffs, but no uniform, and forced a 9 year old boy into a portable toilet in a park, and sodomized him, while his 7 year old sister heard him screaming from outside the port-a-potty. They identified the assailant, who wiill probably be treated as an adult, convicted, imprisoned, and subjected to exactly the same treatment he perpetrated on the child.
Since the little boy probably did not consent to being sodomized, then of course the high school boy should go to jail or something, but I personally think a life sentence is ridiculous.
How about mandatory counseling and intense therapy in addition to a short prison time?
Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said:
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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 Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11726271 - 12/27/09 12:13 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nothing you wrote is even worth responding to, beyond this sentence. However, as my mother used to say when I became oppositional: "Go bang your head against a wall."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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What an excellent debater you are. 
Why do you think there should be special "rules" for sexuality? What is the difference between when one consents to something non-sexual, and when one consents to something that is sexual? Why does age even matter? 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Poid is something you and I can agree on.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,381
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11726526 - 12/27/09 01:05 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is important to find common ground.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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He's mad because I told Markos that one of his threads was pure worthless drivel.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11728723 - 12/27/09 08:41 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm hearing a 16 year old questioning, 'why is the sky blue, why can't it be green?! What's wrong with green. Plants are green. Algae is green. Green is good. Why isn't the sky green?!' I don't merely want to put someone on ignore status. That distinction is reserved for someone like fivepointer. This is just annoying.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11728752 - 12/27/09 08:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
A long sentence in jail is a sufficient punishment as we all know the kind of justice these sick individuals get in a place like that.
From what I've heard, a lot of these people get killed by prisoners when they're in prison; is that a just punishment?
No, its not proper justice, its prison justice and most do not get 'killed' as far as I know.
Quote:
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
We also now have chemical castration drugs available so when they get out of prison so we can be reassured of the unlikelihood of crimes of that nature being repeated.
"No cruel and unusual punishment."
How is chemical castration 'cruel and unusual punishment'?
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11728764 - 12/27/09 08:46 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Poid, what you said was more than idiotic. Do you honestly think that a person can 'consent' at any age?
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11730732 - 12/28/09 09:02 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I'm hearing a 16 year old questioning, 'why is the sky blue, why can't it be green?! What's wrong with green. Plants are green. Algae is green. Green is good. Why isn't the sky green?!' I don't merely want to put someone on ignore status. That distinction is reserved for someone like fivepointer. This is just annoying.
Quote:
Poid said:
What an excellent debater you are.
Really, I don't think it's a matter of maturity, it's just a matter of you having different opinions on this issue than I do, and you being seemingly unwilling to debate with someone whose opinions are on the other side of the coin as yours.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
A long sentence in jail is a sufficient punishment as we all know the kind of justice these sick individuals get in a place like that.
From what I've heard, a lot of these people get killed by prisoners when they're in prison; is that a just punishment?
No, its not proper justice, its prison justice and most do not get 'killed' as far as I know.
Pedophiles are targets of violence in prisons from what I've heard & read.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
How is chemical castration 'cruel and unusual punishment'?
You don't see how that's unusual? 
You can't see how it can be argued that it is cruel?
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Poid, what you said was more than idiotic. Do you honestly think that a person can 'consent' at any age?
As long as they can speak, of course they can, WTF? 
For example, I could ask a toddler that is say, four years old if s/he wants to play a game with me; if s/he says yes, then that's consent right there.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11731082 - 12/28/09 10:27 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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For example, I could ask a toddler that is say, four years old if s/he wants to play a game with me; if s/he says yes, then that's consent right there.
Clearly you are handicapped in that major subset of cognitive development, namely, moral development.
Four year olds have neither cognitive or moral capabilities that approach logical understanding. Full adult capacity is partly a function of brain development, which reaches full adult status about age 25. By extension, you must be on the side that would exploit other mentally handicapped adults as well as the developmentally immature. If you do not understand the above, then I'm afraid that you have profound intellectual deficits, but somehow, I do not thunk so. I think that the legal expression "callous indifference" may apply to you, as well as the psychological term "sociopath," In other words, if you are not playing at being an oppositional teenager, you must be a moral retard. But talking s**t is one thing, and acting-out one's sickness is another. There aren't any normal folk in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd worlds who take sides with you, and I'm not talking cultural norms, I'm talking universal understanding of some basic fully human qualities. I hope you're just talking like a pervert, not actually being one. There is nothing to debate with perverts, btw. Sociopaths do not have empathy, conscience, remorse, or compassion. They are neither normal, or even full human beings, just sick human mammals.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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I think often these posts are designed for shock value. To make someone who feels dis empowered feel powerful and in control.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
"For example, I could ask a toddler that is say, four years old if s/he wants to play a game with me; if s/he says yes, then that's consent right there. "
Clearly you are handicapped in that major subset of cognitive development, namely, moral development.
Four year olds have neither cognitive or moral capabilities that approach logical understanding. Full adult capacity is partly a function of brain development, which reaches full adult status about age 25. By extension, you must be on the side that would exploit other mentally handicapped adults as well as the developmentally immature. If you do not understand the above, then I'm afraid that you have profound intellectual deficits, but somehow, I do not thunk so. I think that the legal expression "callous indifference" may apply to you, as well as the psychological term "sociopath," In other words, if you are not playing at being an oppositional teenager, you must be a moral retard. But talking s**t is one thing, and acting-out one's sickness is another. There aren't any normal folk in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd worlds who take sides with you, and I'm not talking cultural norms, I'm talking universal understanding of some basic fully human qualities. I hope you're just talking like a pervert, not actually being one. There is nothing to debate with perverts, btw. Sociopaths do not have empathy, conscience, remorse, or compassion. They are neither normal, or even full human beings, just sick human mammals.
I agree with the bolded statements.
The rest of your argument however is a personalism and fallacious in the following sense.
Argument from Intimidation
There is a certain type of argument which, in fact, is not an argument, but a means of forestalling debate and extorting an opponent’s agreement with one’s undiscussed notions. It is a method of bypassing logic by means of psychological pressure . . . [It] consists of threatening to impeach an opponent’s character by means of his argument, thus impeaching the argument without debate. Example: “Only the immoral can fail to see that Candidate X’s argument is false.” . . . The falsehood of his argument is asserted arbitrarily and offered as proof of his immorality.
The essential characteristic of the Argument from Intimidation is its appeal to moral self-doubt and its reliance on the fear, guilt or ignorance of the victim. It is used in the form of an ultimatum demanding that the victim renounce a given idea without discussion, under threat of being considered morally unworthy. The pattern is always: “Only those who are evil (dishonest, heartless, insensitive, ignorant, etc.) can hold such an idea.”
Edited by RationalEgo (12/30/09 10:49 PM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
For example, I could ask a toddler that is say, four years old if s/he wants to play a game with me; if s/he says yes, then that's consent right there.
Clearly you are handicapped in that major subset of cognitive development, namely, moral development.
Personalism?
Moral development is different for kids in different cultures; this says something about morality, huh? 
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Four year olds have neither cognitive or moral capabilities that approach logical understanding.
If a female who is my age now (20) wanted to play doctor with me when I was four, I would definitely have accepted her invitation if I thought she was pretty; are you saying that four year olds don't get horny?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Full adult capacity is partly a function of brain development, which reaches full adult status about age 25.
So what? Human beings can orgasm at a very young age, why does their brain have to be at full capacity in order for them to enjoy the pleasures of sex? 
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
By extension, you must be on the side that would exploit other mentally handicapped adults as well as the developmentally immature.
I would not exploit anybody.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
If you do not understand the above, then I'm afraid that you have profound intellectual deficits, but somehow, I do not thunk so. I think that the legal expression "callous indifference" may apply to you, as well as the psychological term "sociopath," In other words, if you are not playing at being an oppositional teenager, you must be a moral retard.
I'm not a moral retard because I understand other people's morals, but I don't give a shit about them; I guess I am callously indifferent.
From Profile of the Sociopath:
Quote:
Profile of the Sociopath
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Yeah, I'm not a fucking sociopath at all...
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
But talking s**t is one thing, and acting-out one's sickness is another.
Did I say I wanted to fuck children? No, I am just debating an issue here, so what sickness are you talking about?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
There aren't any normal folk in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd worlds who take sides with you, and I'm not talking cultural norms, I'm talking universal understanding of some basic fully human qualities.
Proof? 
WTF does "normal" mean? 
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
There is nothing to debate with perverts...
If you're talking about what turns a pervert on, then of course, why would you debate opinions?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
btw. Sociopaths do not have empathy, conscience, remorse, or compassion.
I've felt and/or experienced all of those things.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
They are neither normal, or even full human beings, just sick human mammals.
I wouldn't say that, I would just say that they are basically a different breed of human. 
I think your debate tactic of labeling those who disagree with your position with some sort of sickness is extremely fucking pathetic, BTW. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11731381 - 12/28/09 11:29 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
I'm not a moral retard because I understand other people's morals, but I don't give a shit about them; I guess I am callously indifferent.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11731392 - 12/28/09 11:30 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11731401 - 12/28/09 11:32 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's OK, MarkostheGnostic once labeled me as a sociopath too just because I didn't agree with his moral beliefs. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11731414 - 12/28/09 11:34 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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He probably thinks I'm evil because I didn't celebrate Christmas.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11731443 - 12/28/09 11:42 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Poid, you are failing to understand the full context of the issue. A childs mind is not fully developed and as such neither is their ability to reason. In order to make serious choices pertaining to certain actions a high level of cognitive and emotional development.
For a similar reason that a child should not and cannot 'consent' to the ingestion potent mind-altering substances, is the same reason that they cannot consent to being interfered with sexually. The experiences can have serious consequences and a child does not have sufficient capacity for awareness to be able to make a clear choice to consent or not. An adult can also quite easily manipulate a child to do what he/she wants the child to do.
A child quite simply cannot make an informed, rational, independent decision with regard to these choices and is vulnerable to manipulation. It is almost the worst crime that I can think of for an adult to take advantage of a child's lack of cognitive development and use them as a means to their own ends. I'm just shocked that these facts have to be pointed out to you.
As Markos said, there has to be something wrong with a person who wishes to ignore these obvious facts.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Poid, you are failing to understand the full context of the issue. A childs mind is not fully developed and as such neither is their ability to reason. In order to make serious choices pertaining to certain actions a high level of cognitive development, emotionally as well as with the reasoning faculty are required to have been achieved.
Why is sex considered to be a serious choice?
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
For a similar reason that a child should not and cannot 'consent' to the ingestion potent mind-altering substances, is the same reason that they cannot consent to being interfered with sexually.
That's a retarded argument, sex does not = getting high on drugs, they are two completely different things.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
The experiences can have serious consequences and a child does not have sufficient capacity for awareness to be able to make a clear choice to consent or not.
Or they can have no negative consequences whatsoever.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
An adult can also quite easily manipulate a child to do what he/she wants the child to do.
That's true, but are you saying that no child at all has ever wanted to have sex with an adult? If you are, that is simply not true, because, like I mentioned earlier, I personally have felt sexual attraction towards adults as a child.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
A child quite simply cannot make an informed, rational, independent decision with regard to these choices and is vulnerable to manipulation. It is almost the worst crime that I can think of for an adult to take advantage of a child's lack of cognitive development and use them as a means to their own ends. I'm just shocked that these facts have to be pointed out to you.
Um, what if there is no manipulation involved?
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
As Markos said, there has to be something wrong with a person who wishes to ignore these obvious facts.
Didn't ignore them at all.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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VisionaryFlicker
Querulant
Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Amsterdam 
Last seen: 3 hours, 17 minutes
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why is everyone in this thread replying to POID who himself doesn't seem to have posted in this thread at all?
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........................................................................................................................
Manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing,
producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled
substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Icelander said:
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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VisionaryFlicker
Querulant
Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 3 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11731683 - 12/28/09 12:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
 nigga what?
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........................................................................................................................
Manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing,
producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled
substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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I think Poid has posted in this thread.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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VisionaryFlicker
Querulant
Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 3 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11731771 - 12/28/09 12:47 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I think Poid has posted in this thread.
but his posts have somehow vanished?
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........................................................................................................................
Manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing,
producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled
substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Maybe he deleted them or you have him on ignore. I don't see them either but I have him on ignore. Anyway I can see a lot of responses addressed to him.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11731809 - 12/28/09 12:54 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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He just made it to my ignore list too!
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VisionaryFlicker
Querulant
Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 3 hours, 17 minutes
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Haha sorry thats right, I've got him on ignore! 
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........................................................................................................................
Manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing,
producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled
substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Quote:
VisionaryFlicker said:
Haha sorry thats right, I've got him on ignore!
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
He just made it to my ignore list too!
Good riddance, your posts fucking suck dick at debating, anyways!
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11731965 - 12/28/09 01:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
He just made it to my ignore list too!
Good riddance, your posts fucking suck dick at debating, anyways!
Your posts fucking suck dick at debating too. There's a thread about your posts fucking suck dick at debating in the anon forum, Anyways!
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11732483 - 12/28/09 02:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
There's a thread about your posts fucking suck dick at debating in the anon forum, Anyways!
This sentence doesn't even make any fucking sense, genius.
Also, it's incorrect to spell 'anyways' with a capital A when it's at the end of a sentence; if you're going to make fun of somebody else's posts, it would be smart to not have retarded posts yourself!
Edited by Poid (12/28/09 06:40 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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Bite me.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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No thanks, I just ate.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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 Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11734164 - 12/28/09 07:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It was a suggestion, not a diagnosis. Whatever the hell your problem is, it isn't philosophy, but I do find you a sociological profile in this forum.
You are not debating, you are putting out some of your subjectivity, which is merely a measure of the quality of your inner life, such as it is. When , and if, you integrate your own sexuality, this type of "drivel" will cease to exude from you like Pigpen's cloud of dirt. Please respond with something that reminds me not to bother interacting with you again until you actually philosophize about something that can be debated.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,381
Loc: Luxor
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This is your drain on brugs.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Is that where you work Orgone?
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
You are not debating, you are putting out some of your subjectivity, which is merely a measure of the quality of your inner life, such as it is.
No, I actually am debating, and what I'm saying here has nothing to do with my personal life.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
When , and if, you integrate your own sexuality, this type of "drivel" will cease to exude from you like Pigpen's cloud of dirt.
I certainly doubt it.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Please respond with something that reminds me not to bother interacting with you again until you actually philosophize about something that can be debated.
You're just seemingly afraid or otherwise unwilling to debate something that your religion is strongly against. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,381
Loc: Luxor
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Is that where you work Orgone?
I just visit when I need some 'care'.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11734515 - 12/28/09 09:09 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
You're just seemingly afraid or otherwise unwilling to debate something that your religion is strongly against.
The audacity of you even attempting to debate within the same intellectual class as markos is laughable at best.
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11734958 - 12/28/09 10:23 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
It's OK, MarkostheGnostic once labeled me as a sociopath too just because I didn't agree with his moral beliefs.
You strike me as more of a nihilist, but bordering on sociopathy.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Silversoul]
#11735018 - 12/28/09 10:40 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11736371 - 12/29/09 08:43 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why is sex considered to be a serious choice?
Gee, I don't know, ever hear of HIV? Do you believe that 4 year old will weigh out that risk before deciding to have sex with you, the 20-something?
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Oh God,  !
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Why is sex considered to be a serious choice?
Gee, I don't know, ever hear of HIV? Do you believe that 4 year old will weigh out that risk before deciding to have sex with you, the 20-something?
If it wasn't taboo, I would expect that the adult talk to the parents about his/her intentions with the child, either before or after the fact; if the parents found out that their kid got HIV, then I would suspect that they would want revenge, and they would try hard to get it.
Is the risk of contracting a disease the only reason why sex is considered to be a serious choice, IYO?
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Quote:
Poid said:
You're just seemingly afraid or otherwise unwilling to debate something that your religion is strongly against.
The audacity of you even attempting to debate within the same intellectual class as markos is laughable at best.
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Fraggin said:
There's a thread about your posts fucking suck dick at debating in the anon forum, Anyways!
This sentence doesn't even make any fucking sense, genius.
Also, it's incorrect to spell 'anyways' with a capital A when it's at the end of a sentence; if you're going to make fun of somebody else's posts, it would be smart to not have retarded posts yourself!
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11736860 - 12/29/09 10:46 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is the risk of contracting a disease the only reason why sex is considered to be a serious choice, IYO?
No, but shouldn't the risk of a slow, uncomfortable death be reason enough to prove that sex is a serious choice?
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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That's the only thing serious about it, IMO, because all sex is is play.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11736962 - 12/29/09 11:04 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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ever heard of snuff films?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11736965 - 12/29/09 11:05 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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You're just seemingly afraid or otherwise unwilling to debate something that your religion is strongly against.
1) I have no religion, therefore, I have no 'beliefs.' I embrace symbols of Ultimate Reality (Truth), and their transformation into human attributes such as Wisdom and Compassion.
2) No fear here.
3) Unwillingness present and accounted for, to "debate" useless, or worse, harmful (non-compassion-based) positions, since such positions are grounded in ignorance (avidya) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avidya
Being an 'elder,' makes one more acutely aware that there is NO time to waste in this lifetime, IF one takes life as a unique and precious opportunity to learn and teach the "further reaches of human nature" (Abraham Maslow). So, Compassion is the 'compass' of directionality in all things. It is a 'stance,' both psychological and metaphysics, not, strictly speaking, a 'belief.'
You want to 'debate,' well, debate this: People who espouse complete sexual license, and then use four year old children in connection to this position with regard to consent, raises a big RED FLAG for anyone who has ever worked with kids who have been victimized. Sex + Child = Pedophile, to any counselor/therapist. This is not an accusation, but your position raises the hackles of someone familiar with your combination of thoughts and attitude. Since pedophilia is also sociopathy, you should be aware of how you come across to the discerning professional. So debate away, but other viewers might want clarification on your part. I just clarified my reaction to your words, and I have no way of knowing what your precise motives are for taking this issue to a public forum, all I can do is clarify what it looks like to me.
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (12/29/09 03:54 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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I have no 'beliefs.' I embrace symbols of Ultimate Reality (Truth),
Sorry Marko's I luv ya but sometimes you just crack me up.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Icelander said:
ever heard of snuff films?
I've heard of them, but I don't know exactly what they are.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
You're just seemingly afraid or otherwise unwilling to debate something that your religion is strongly against.
1) I have no religion, therefore, I have no 'beliefs.' I embrace symbols of Ultimate Reality (Truth), and their transformation into human attributes such as Wisdom and Compassion.
What's so non-compassionate about giving pleasure to another?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
2) No fear here.
Then why do you ignore my rebuttals to your points?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
3) Unwillingness present and accounted for, to "debate" useless, or worse, harmful (non-compassion-based) positions, since such positions are grounded in ignorance (avidya) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Avidy?).
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Being an 'elder,' makes one more acutely aware that there is NO time to waste in this lifetime, IF one takes life as a unique and precious opportunity to learn and teach the "further reaches of human nature" (Abraham Maslow). So, Compassion is the 'compass' of directionality in all things. It is a 'stance,' both psychological and metaphysics, not, strictly speaking, a 'belief.'
Again, what is non-compassionate about giving another pleasure? 
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
You want to 'debate,' well, debate this: People who espouse complete sexual license, and then use four year old children in connection to this position with regard to consent, raises a big RED FLAG for anyone who has ever worked with kids who have been victimized.
I had sexual relations with a girl my age when I was about 5, and I wouldn't have minded being "victimized" by an older woman back then if I thought she was hot.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Sex + Child = Pedophile, to any counselor/therapist.
Not necessarily, you're only considered a pedophile your sexual affinity is mainly towards children; this means you can have sexual relations with children without being considered as being a bona-fide pedophile.
From Pedophilia - Wikipedia:
Quote:
Pedophilia (or paedophilia) is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
This is not an accusation, but your position raises the hackles of someone familiar with your combination of thoughts and attitude. Since pedophilia is also sociopathy, you should be aware of how you come across to the discerning professional.
I'm just debating, me discussing this issue with the points I've been expressing says nothing about my sexuality; I'm just trying to have a non-culturally biased, mature discussion about this issue.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11737338 - 12/29/09 12:06 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well google it and find out that all sex is not in good fun.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11737368 - 12/29/09 12:11 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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From Urban Dictionary: Snuff Film:
Quote:
snuff film 184 up, 23 down
A tape where the planned killing; murder of someone is recorded.
There have been evidence of snuff films, there was a huge Russian based child-porn ring/website broken up a few years ago called "Wonderland." Where for the right price they would kill the kid and film it, and the perv would watch it. The police have evidence of these digital tapes, and part of one was shown on an Italian news broadcast!
BTW you contridicted yourself when you said "...Some serial killes have recored themsleves torturing and killing, but these crimes were not filmed(???)..." And what the fuck is a legitimate murder?
I know that all sex is not necessarily all in good fun, but I think that goes for anything that humans can do to/with each other.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11737450 - 12/29/09 12:23 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Right. One must have ethics and discernment to get on with others. Otherwise best to stick to fantasy porn.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11737469 - 12/29/09 12:25 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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IMO it is certainly possible for a loving sexual relationship to occur between a child and an adult but it's also very easy for the adult to manipulate the child in a non-compassionate manner, particularly if the child is young in comparison.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11737498 - 12/29/09 12:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh I agree. This one size fits all shit is nonsense. Unfortunately very few adults or children are mature.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11737519 - 12/29/09 12:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Right. One must have ethics and discernment to get on with others. Otherwise best to stick to fantasy porn.
Yup! 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11737523 - 12/29/09 12:35 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you mature enough wouldn't you realize that all this sex is just a bunch of tomfoolery for young 'uns?
When a man tells me he's run out of steam in the sex department, I'll tell him, 'Count your blessings; you've escaped from the clutches of a cruel tyrant. Enjoy!'
--Richard Needham
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11737539 - 12/29/09 12:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
If you mature enough wouldn't you realize that all this sex is just a bunch of tomfoolery for young 'uns?
That happens to be the way that I see it.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11737603 - 12/29/09 12:49 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
If you mature enough wouldn't you realize that all this sex is just a bunch of tomfoolery for young 'uns?
When a man tells me he's run out of steam in the sex department, I'll tell him, 'Count your blessings; you've escaped from the clutches of a cruel tyrant. Enjoy!'
--Richard Needham
Well there is some truth to this. Unless one of course knows how to be sexual without obsession.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11737787 - 12/29/09 01:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Also, it's incorrect to spell 'anyways' with a capital A when it's at the end of a sentence; if you're going to make fun of somebody else's posts, it would be smart to not have retarded posts yourself!
Weak.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11737878 - 12/29/09 01:48 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Niggarf, why in the fuck do you even post here, just to talk shit to me?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11738714 - 12/29/09 04:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
ever heard of snuff films?
I've heard of them, but I don't know exactly what they are.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
You're just seemingly afraid or otherwise unwilling to debate something that your religion is strongly against.
1) I have no religion, therefore, I have no 'beliefs.' I embrace symbols of Ultimate Reality (Truth), and their transformation into human attributes such as Wisdom and Compassion.
What's so non-compassionate about giving pleasure to another?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
2) No fear here.
Then why do you ignore my rebuttals to your points?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
3) Unwillingness present and accounted for, to "debate" useless, or worse, harmful (non-compassion-based) positions, since such positions are grounded in ignorance (avidya) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Avidy?).
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Being an 'elder,' makes one more acutely aware that there is NO time to waste in this lifetime, IF one takes life as a unique and precious opportunity to learn and teach the "further reaches of human nature" (Abraham Maslow). So, Compassion is the 'compass' of directionality in all things. It is a 'stance,' both psychological and metaphysics, not, strictly speaking, a 'belief.'
Again, what is non-compassionate about giving another pleasure?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
You want to 'debate,' well, debate this: People who espouse complete sexual license, and then use four year old children in connection to this position with regard to consent, raises a big RED FLAG for anyone who has ever worked with kids who have been victimized.
I had sexual relations with a girl my age when I was about 5, and I wouldn't have minded being "victimized" by an older woman back then if I thought she was hot.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Sex Child = Pedophile, to any counselor/therapist.
Not necessarily, you're only considered a pedophile your sexual affinity is mainly towards children; this means you can have sexual relations with children without being considered as being a bona-fide pedophile.
From Pedophilia - Wikipedia:
Quote:
Pedophilia (or paedophilia) is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
This is not an accusation, but your position raises the hackles of someone familiar with your combination of thoughts and attitude. Since pedophilia is also sociopathy, you should be aware of how you come across to the discerning professional.
I'm just debating, me discussing this issue with the points I've been expressing says nothing about my sexuality; I'm just trying to have a non-culturally biased, mature discussion about this issue.
You pretty clearly identified yourself through your responses. And I'm sorry for your own molestation. But, I am ardent about protecting kids against sexual predators. Sexual abuse usually causes long-term damage to personality development, and what is called Object relations. Some of your own written statements are indicative of this, including your admission of "callous indifference." I Highly recommend psychotherapy with someone who specializes in early childhood sexual abuse. An AASECT (American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists) certified therapist, preferably http://www.aasect.org/directory.asp. If you were, in truth, molested at age 5, then your comment about an older hot woman is made only in RETROSPECT. The fact is 1) you were abused, 2) you are in denial, and 3) you are more than likely an abused-turned-abuser, if only in attitude. Your emoticon strengthens my confidence in this view.
you're only considered a pedophile your sexual affinity is mainly towards children; this means you can have sexual relations with children without being considered as being a bona-fide pedophile. This statement is patently false. In fact, it's absurd. Many married men are pedophiles, rube! Only 3 weeks ago I called Child Protective Services for a 13 year old girl who disclosed (to me) for the first time, that her pedophilic biological father had been raping her at age 11. That's right - rape - incestuous rape. He was in another country, but she believed that he was coming to the US. If so, US Customs has a flag next to his name, so that he can be summarily arrested for Sexual Battery on a Child Under the Age of 12, and whatever additional charges incest can add to his rap sheet.
Pedophiles marry and date as typical camouflage.
I don't know where you live, but laws are vastly different across the 50 states (if you're an American). Someone I have known for decades was caught and convicted of having underage (teens) porn on his computer. No actual contact. He could have received 33-77 years (3-7 X 11 counts) had he not pled guilty to 2 counts. He's lost his professional licenses, lost his business, no one will hire him ). Nobody, including his wife can go on-line in his house for 2 years or it will violate his probation. He cannot drink alcohol for 2 years. He cannot be around minors -even his nieces and nephews unless his wife - a now certified 'chaperone' for 'registered sex offenders,' is nearby. If he wants to leave his state to visit for 5 days or longer, he has to register with local law enforcement - for the rest of his life! His picture and his charges will remain on the National Sex Offender Registry for the rest of his life. If his wife hadn't stayed with him, being the only breadwinner, he might have lost (and maybe still will), his new house and HUGE piece of property. In effect, his life is f**ked. He did about a year in a county jail. The penitentiary would have meant his death, almost certainly.
If the shoe fits...do what you gotta do to stay free in body AND in mind.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
You pretty clearly identified yourself through your responses. And I'm sorry for your own molestation.
I was never molested; in what way do you think I identified myself?
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
But, I am ardent about protecting kids against sexual predators. Sexual abuse usually causes long-term damage to personality development, and what is called Object relations. Some of your own written statements are indicative of this, including your admission of "callous indifference." I Highly recommend psychotherapy with someone who specializes in early childhood sexual abuse.
Listen, it's fine that you're ardent about protecting human beings from getting raped, but I was never molested, ok? 
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
An AASECT (American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists) certified therapist, preferably http://www.aasect.org/directory.asp. If you were, in truth, molested at age 5, then your comment about an older hot woman is made only in RETROSPECT.
Again, I was never molested, in fact, the girl who I was having sexual relations with was a grade below me.
And no, that comment isn't merely made in retrospect, I just remember my sexuality then like it was yesterday.
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MarkostheGnostic said:
The fact is 1) you were abused, 2) you are in denial, and 3) you are more than likely an abused-turned-abuser, if only in attitude. Your emoticon strengthens my confidence in this view.
Well, all of that is complete bullshit, so I don't know what to tell you!
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MarkostheGnostic said:
you're only considered a pedophile your sexual affinity is mainly towards children; this means you can have sexual relations with children without being considered as being a bona-fide pedophile. This statement is patently false. In fact, it's absurd. Many married men are pedophiles, rube!
Did you not read the definition that I posted? Why is it that you're ignoring everything I say and instead are turning this into some sort of cheap online psychotherapy session? 
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Only 3 weeks ago I called Child Protective Services for a 13 year old girl who disclosed (to me) for the first time, that her pedophilic biological father had been raping her at age 11. That's right - rape - incestuous rape. He was in another country, but she believed that he was coming to the US. If so, US Customs has a flag next to his name, so that he can be summarily arrested for Sexual Battery on a Child Under the Age of 12, and whatever additional charges incest can add to his rap sheet.
I don't know why you're mentioning this. 
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Pedophiles marry and date as typical camouflage.
So you're saying that if a person has any sort of sexual attraction towards children whatsoever, then that person cannot be attracted to other types of people? Do you even know what polymorphous perversion is? Your theory is fucking retarded...
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Someone I have known for decades was caught and convicted of having underage (teens) porn on his computer. No actual contact. He could have received 33-77 years (3-7 X 11 counts) had he not pled guilty to 2 counts. He's lost his professional licenses, lost his business, no one will hire him ). Nobody, including his wife can go on-line in his house for 2 years or it will violate his probation. He cannot drink alcohol for 2 years. He cannot be around minors -even his nieces and nephews unless his wife - a now certified 'chaperone' for 'registered sex offenders,' is nearby. If he wants to leave his state to visit for 5 days or longer, he has to register with local law enforcement - for the rest of his life! His picture and his charges will remain on the National Sex Offender Registry for the rest of his life.
That's fucking stupid. 
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MarkostheGnostic said:
If his wife hadn't stayed with him, being the only breadwinner, he might have lost (and maybe still will), his new house and HUGE piece of property. In effect, his life is f**ked. He did about a year in a county jail. The penitentiary would have meant his death, almost certainly.
Yeah, this only goes to show how fucking dumb those laws are.
Basically, you are denying a huge chunk of human sexuality and you believe that the "norm" for adult human beings is to fetishize their sexuality towards only human beings of a similar age and the opposite sex.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 12 minutes, 52 seconds
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11739452 - 12/29/09 06:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Remember that the first purpose of sexuality is reproduction. I have thwarted that prime directive, and have instead, sublimated and transformed that drive into psychosexual psychosocial and psychospiritual domains. My psychosexual development is subject to the same rigorous self-examination that the rest of my life is. As Socrates is often quoted: "An unexamined life is not worth living." For the pedophile, whose psychosexual development has been arrested, with parallel arrested development in the moral domain, a very specific type of pathology is born. It is the sine qua non of human development that one deny, suppress and reject certain thoughts and behaviors. Normal human parents routinely make sacrifices in the service of their offspring. Exploiting young human life in the service of stultified and perverted narcissism, rather than self-sacrificial and hence ego-transcending behaviors, is just another manifestation of that old-fashioned word - evil.
For some philosophies, evil is equivalent to error, but 'error' does not carry the same emotive power that 'evil' does. It is too intellectualized a term and sounds too non-chalant like the feigned non-chalance of a pedophile trying to justify his/her own perversity against nature by claiming that giving genital pleasure to a child is not harmful to the child. Of course, all the deception, seduction, exploitation and damage done by prematurely genitalizing a child before a larger personality can develop in which to contain intense sexual sensations, goes unmentioned. These sensations and emotions, without internal controls, often becomes compulsive masturbatory behavior at a normally pre-genitalized age. Autoeroticism soon enjoins the assistance of others. First, age appropriate, but then perhaps other victims and older children. Promiscuous behavior can take several directions. Someone I know was molested by a sibling at age 5 and this is the course it took, but that person went into the sex trade industry with its physical assaults, drug addiction and legal problems. All this as a consequence of early disturbance in Object Relations, resulting in a permanent personality disorder, and the inability to form normal human relationships.
The other direction is for the abused to become the abuser - passing one's own evil onto yet another generation - unless that cycle is broken. If a victim is not courageous enough to deal with the pain in therapy, cowardice takes over, identification occurs with the power of one's abuser instead of the whimpering inner child who was abused. The cowardly pedophile makes a pathetic attempt to reclaim his/her sense of personal power, taken by his/her abuser, by over-powering the weak and helpless child-victim. For a normal human being, there is nothing sexually attractive about an infant/baby/toddler, any more than there is about a raging fire. Nevertheless, pyromaniacs are sexually aroused by setting fires; by sirens, firetrucks, commotion, fear and panic. Rapists get aroused by the power over a weaker victim, not by the victim's inherent sexual attractiveness. Witness the young man's rape of a 92 year old woman. Perversions of psychosexuality are inimical to life, health, well-being to the victims. This is why such individuals, sick as they are, are still deemed criminals. There is no debate here Poid. There is health and well-being, or there is sickness and criminality (sociopathy) - no middle ground, no compromise, no debate.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11739471 - 12/29/09 06:46 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
IMO it is certainly possible for a loving sexual relationship to occur between a child and an adult but it's also very easy for the adult to manipulate the child in a non-compassionate manner, particularly if the child is young in comparison.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Remember that the first purpose of sexuality is reproduction.
There is no "first purpose" to sexuality, but there are several purposes; what is the "first purpose" of masturbation (an act of sexuality), IYO?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
I have thwarted that prime directive, and have instead, sublimated and transformed that drive into psychosexual psychosocial and psychospiritual domains.
Psychospiritual? 
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
My psychosexual development is subject to the same rigorous self-examination that the rest of my life is. As Socrates is often quoted: "An unexamined life is not worth living."
Sure.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
For the pedophile...
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia:
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Pedophilia (or paedophilia) is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children
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MarkostheGnostic said:
...whose psychosexual development has been arrested, with parallel arrested development in the moral domain...
What if the pedophile was born in a hypothetical culture where pedophilia is the norm? Would that pedophile be considered to be "suffering" from arrested development in the "moral domain"?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
...a very specific type of pathology is born. It is the sine qua non of human development that one deny, suppress and reject certain thoughts and behaviors.
Like people who deny and suppress their sexuality?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Normal human parents...
What the fuck is a "normal human parent"?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
...routinely make sacrifices in the service of their offspring. Exploiting young human life in the service of stultified and perverted narcissism, rather than self-sacrificial and hence ego-transcending behaviors, is just another manifestation of that old-fashioned word - evil.
Or it could be another manifestation of love.
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MarkostheGnostic said:
For some philosophies, evil is equivalent to error, but 'error' does not carry the same emotive power that 'evil' does. It is too intellectualized a term and sounds too non-chalant like the feigned non-chalance of a pedophile trying to justify his/her own perversity against nature by claiming that giving genital pleasure to a child is not harmful to the child.
A person can perform a sexual act on a child without being considered to be a pedophile--did you just ignore the definition I gave you, just like you've been ignoring basically everything else that I'm telling you?
If humans are polymorphously perverse, then how in the fuck is performing a sexual act on anything a "perversity against nature"?
What if there really is no harm being done on the child? Are you arguing that there necessarily always will be?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Of course, all the deception, seduction, exploitation and damage done by prematurely genitalizing a child before a larger personality can develop in which to contain intense sexual sensations, goes unmentioned.
A "larger personality", WTF? I didn't have too large of a personality when I had my first sexual experience with a girl my age; are you seriously fucking arguing that it is unnatural for children to be interested in sex? 
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MarkostheGnostic said:
These sensations and emotions, without internal controls, often becomes compulsive masturbatory behavior at a normally pre-genitalized age. Autoeroticism soon enjoins the assistance of others. First, age appropriate, but then perhaps other victims and older children. Promiscuous behavior can take several directions.
Keyword "can".
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Someone I know was molested by a sibling at age 5 and this is the course it took, but that person went into the sex trade industry with its physical assaults, drug addiction and legal problems. All this as a consequence of early disturbance in Object Relations, resulting in a permanent personality disorder, and the inability to form normal human relationships.
All of that is only a potential consequence.
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MarkostheGnostic said:
The other direction is for the abused to become the abuser - passing one's own evil onto yet another generation - unless that cycle is broken.
Or absolutely nothing can become of it.
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MarkostheGnostic said:
If a victim is not courageous enough to deal with the pain in therapy, cowardice takes over, identification occurs with the power of one's abuser instead of the whimpering inner child who was abused.
Evidence?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
The cowardly pedophile makes a pathetic attempt to reclaim his/her sense of personal power, taken by his/her abuser, by over-powering the weak and helpless child-victim.
Are you saying that all pedophiles were abused as children?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
For a normal human being...
What the fuck is a "normal human being"? 
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MarkostheGnostic said:
...there is nothing sexually attractive about an infant/baby/toddler, any more than there is about a raging fire.
There could be.
What do you not understand about polymorphous perversity?
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Nevertheless, pyromaniacs are sexually aroused by setting fires; by sirens, firetrucks, commotion, fear and panic. Rapists get aroused by the power over a weaker victim, not by the victim's inherent sexual attractiveness.
So the victim's inherent sexual attractiveness never has anything to do with it? That's fucking bullshit.
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MarkostheGnostic said:
Witness the young man's rape of a 92 year old woman. Perversions of psychosexuality are inimical to life, health, well-being to the victims.
There is no such thing as a "perversion of psychosexuality", since humans have been found to be polymorphously perverse.
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MarkostheGnostic said:
There is no debate here Poid.
If you don't want to debate, then what in the fuck are you even doing here?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
There is no debate here Poid. There is health and well-being, or there is sickness and criminality (sociopathy) - no middle ground, no compromise, no debate.
Your entire post was superb but I wanted to emphasize this part. Whether some like it or not, some things are not debatable. This would be one of those things.
I applaud you for the work you do.
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lines
Stranger
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 1,261
Loc: USA
Last seen: 29 days, 23 hours
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Do you say the issue is not debateable because you don't understand the issue enough in order to give specific reasons for what you believe in? I'm not on anyones side in this debate but if you want Poid to take you seriously your going to have to explain what makes it abusive by using specific terms and reasons. Sometimes when people make vague declarations those declarations are not believed because people have not been explained the exact reasoning behind those declarations.
Edited by lines (12/29/09 11:51 PM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said:
Your entire post was superb but I wanted to emphasize this part. Whether some like it or not, some things are not debatable. This would be one of those things.
You're right; sexuality, like any other preference or opinion, is not a matter of debate. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Remember that the first purpose of sexuality is reproduction. I have thwarted that prime directive, and have instead, sublimated and transformed that drive into psychosexual psychosocial and psychospiritual domains. My psychosexual development is subject to the same rigorous self-examination that the rest of my life is. As Socrates is often quoted: "An unexamined life is not worth living." For the pedophile, whose psychosexual development has been arrested, with parallel arrested development in the moral domain, a very specific type of pathology is born. It is the sine qua non of human development that one deny, suppress and reject certain thoughts and behaviors. Normal human parents routinely make sacrifices in the service of their offspring. Exploiting young human life in the service of stultified and perverted narcissism, rather than self-sacrificial and hence ego-transcending behaviors, is just another manifestation of that old-fashioned word - evil.
For some philosophies, evil is equivalent to error, but 'error' does not carry the same emotive power that 'evil' does. It is too intellectualized a term and sounds too non-chalant like the feigned non-chalance of a pedophile trying to justify his/her own perversity against nature by claiming that giving genital pleasure to a child is not harmful to the child. Of course, all the deception, seduction, exploitation and damage done by prematurely genitalizing a child before a larger personality can develop in which to contain intense sexual sensations, goes unmentioned. These sensations and emotions, without internal controls, often becomes compulsive masturbatory behavior at a normally pre-genitalized age. Autoeroticism soon enjoins the assistance of others. First, age appropriate, but then perhaps other victims and older children. Promiscuous behavior can take several directions. Someone I know was molested by a sibling at age 5 and this is the course it took, but that person went into the sex trade industry with its physical assaults, drug addiction and legal problems. All this as a consequence of early disturbance in Object Relations, resulting in a permanent personality disorder, and the inability to form normal human relationships.
The other direction is for the abused to become the abuser - passing one's own evil onto yet another generation - unless that cycle is broken. If a victim is not courageous enough to deal with the pain in therapy, cowardice takes over, identification occurs with the power of one's abuser instead of the whimpering inner child who was abused. The cowardly pedophile makes a pathetic attempt to reclaim his/her sense of personal power, taken by his/her abuser, by over-powering the weak and helpless child-victim. For a normal human being, there is nothing sexually attractive about an infant/baby/toddler, any more than there is about a raging fire. Nevertheless, pyromaniacs are sexually aroused by setting fires; by sirens, firetrucks, commotion, fear and panic. Rapists get aroused by the power over a weaker victim, not by the victim's inherent sexual attractiveness. Witness the young man's rape of a 92 year old woman. Perversions of psychosexuality are inimical to life, health, well-being to the victims. This is why such individuals, sick as they are, are still deemed criminals. There is no debate here Poid. There is health and well-being, or there is sickness and criminality (sociopathy) - no middle ground, no compromise, no debate.
Very educated, well informed, easy to understand post. I find your clinical information to be spot on.
I would also like to add, that those who identify with being molested, sexualized or genitalized at an early age may not have the sociological composure to see the truth in this subject. (Poid)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11742469 - 12/30/09 11:50 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said:
Your entire post was superb but I wanted to emphasize this part. Whether some like it or not, some things are not debatable. This would be one of those things.
You're right; sexuality, like any other preference or opinion, is not a matter of debate.
What the fuck do you mean by "sociological composure"? Are you seriously suggesting that there is something wrong with having sexual experiences at an early age?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11742562 - 12/30/09 12:08 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes. As Markos pointed out, being sexualized at an early age causes consequence of early disturbance in Object Relations, resulting in a permanent personality disorder, and the inability to form normal human relationships.
Children don't have a system of checks and balances to maintain sexual health.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11742608 - 12/30/09 12:15 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
Yes. As Markos pointed out, being sexualized at an early age causes consequence of early disturbance in Object Relations, resulting in a permanent personality disorder, and the inability to form normal human relationships.
There's no such fucking thing as "normal"...
Also, where's the proof that this is a necessary consequence of being sexualized at an "early age"? Who decides what an "early age" is? 
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Children don't have a system of checks and balances to maintain sexual health.
It's fucking ridiculous to think that damage necessarily occurs when a sexual being willingly has sex with another sexual being; it's not like it's unnatural or anything...
What system of checks & balances are you speaking of? What evidence is there that all children do not have this system of checks & balances? What evidence is there that this system is necessary in order for an individual to maintain "sexual health"?
What do you mean by "sexual health"?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11742641 - 12/30/09 12:20 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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In most cases.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11742751 - 12/30/09 12:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Yes. As Markos pointed out, being sexualized at an early age causes consequence of early disturbance in Object Relations, resulting in a permanent personality disorder, and the inability to form normal human relationships.
There's no such fucking thing as "normal"...
Also, where's the proof that this is a necessary consequence of being sexualized at an "early age"? Who decides what an "early age" is?
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Children don't have a system of checks and balances to maintain sexual health.
It's fucking ridiculous to think that damage necessarily occurs when a sexual being willingly has sex with another sexual being; it's not like it's unnatural or anything...
What system of checks & balances are you speaking of? What evidence is there that all children do not have this system of checks & balances? What evidence is there that this system is necessary in order for an individual to maintain "sexual health"?
What do you mean by "sexual health"?
The questions you ask should be part of common sense so I see no reason to answer them for you unless you lack common sense entirely.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11742768 - 12/30/09 12:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL at trying to use common sense to support a philosophical/psychological argument.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11742801 - 12/30/09 12:45 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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What is philosphical about sexualizing children?
I'm not using common sense to support psychology either.
Poid is clearly asking questions to answers he already has.
It's a childish debate tactic that I choose not to participate in.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11742867 - 12/30/09 12:55 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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All you do is come in here to talk shit about me and to state "facts", you don't even seem willing to debate anything; just leave already.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11742902 - 12/30/09 01:02 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Debating logic lacking depravity without reason is senseless.
Present something debateable.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11742916 - 12/30/09 01:04 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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All I've been doing is rebutting peoples' claims, and my rebuttals have gone ignored; some people here seem to think that what they say is fact no matter what, and doesn't need to be defended with sound evidence.
That is the real stupidity here.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11743349 - 12/30/09 02:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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So what you're saying is that no one takes your posts seriously?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11743439 - 12/30/09 02:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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What's to take seriously?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Stranger
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 1,261
Loc: USA
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11743506 - 12/30/09 02:47 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The questions you ask should be part of common sense so I see no reason to answer them for you unless you lack common sense entirely.
You shouldn't even state your opinion if you can't explain why you believe what you believe.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11743556 - 12/30/09 02:54 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I believe sexualizing children ages 5 and younger and even early teenage years and younger is wrong because psychology has proven that children at this age have not yet developed the skills required to deal with the effects of sexual relationships and further sexualizing becomes an obstacle and hinderance to sociologial and psychological development.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11743620 - 12/30/09 03:01 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm curious as to what exactly they have trouble dealing with? If it was fully consensual and a caring encounter how could damage result? Now if someone was being lied to and manipulated or misled then I can see the problem.
Care to take a stab at answering this?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11743824 - 12/30/09 03:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
I believe sexualizing children ages 5 and younger and even early teenage years and younger is wrong because psychology has proven that children at this age have not yet developed the skills required to deal with the effects of sexual relationships and further sexualizing becomes an obstacle and hinderance to sociologial and psychological development.
That's the stupidest fucking thing that I've ever heard.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11745346 - 12/30/09 08:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Having sex isn't just a matter of rubbing some things together and having a nice orgasm and calling it a day. There are strong instinctual emotions that can arise through sexual activity. There are emotional bonds that can form. You can't really expect a young person to be able to deal with all that.
I mean, most adults have trouble dealing with it. People are sensitive, and without some love and kindness they will hate this about themselves, ignore (dull the sensitivity) anything but the pleasure, and probably look back at their life and wonder how it ended up so jaded.
Playing with fire is what it is... to think there's no danger, no chance of getting burned is ignorant. Expecting little girls to play with that fire could be quite irresponsible, and that is why they are called jail bait.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11745371 - 12/30/09 08:15 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Having sex isn't just a matter of rubbing some things together and having a nice orgasm and calling it a day. There are strong instinctual emotions that can arise through sexual activity. There are emotional bonds that can form. You can't really expect a young person to be able to deal with all that.
Keyword "can".
And why not? Humans still have babies at ages as young as 12 in some parts of the world, it's completely natural.
Quote:
Rahz said:
I mean, most adults have trouble dealing with it.
Source?
Quote:
Rahz said:
People are sensitive, and without some love and kindness they will hate this about themselves, ignore (dull the sensitivity) anything but the pleasure, and probably look back at their life and wonder how it ended up so jaded.
Not all people are sensitive, stop making over-generalizations.
Quote:
Rahz said:
Playing with fire is what it is... to think there's no danger, no chance of getting burned is ignorant.
I personally think that it's much safer than fire.
Quote:
Rahz said:
Expecting little girls to play with that fire could be quite irresponsible, and that is why they are called jail bait.
There's no such thing as "jail-bait" in Mexico, and other contries as well; maybe this is just a cultural thing in our culture...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11745377 - 12/30/09 08:17 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rahz you may be correct that most children cannot appropriately deal with the psychosexual aspects of a relationship with an adult but there still are always exceptions to a rule.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Stranger
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11745422 - 12/30/09 08:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Poid what do you mean when you say there is no "jail bait in MExico, I don't live close to Mexico so I don't hear much about the place.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11745440 - 12/30/09 08:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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There's no such thing as jailbait there because people fuck young (post-pubescent) girls there all the time and it's no big deal.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11745488 - 12/30/09 08:35 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Rahz you may be correct that most children cannot appropriately deal with the psychosexual aspects of a relationship with an adult but there still are always exceptions to a rule.
I agree. Who shall we trust to determine which children are the exceptions? 
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11745492 - 12/30/09 08:35 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11745519 - 12/30/09 08:40 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11745526 - 12/30/09 08:41 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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 Thanks.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11745585 - 12/30/09 08:51 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Humans still have babies at ages as young as 12 in some parts of the world, it's completely natural.
So is being eaten by alligators.
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Source?
Many.
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Not all people are sensitive, stop making over-generalizations.
In my experience, everyone is sensitive. We can always act like "grown ups" and pretend we don't have any feelings.
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I personally think that it's much safer than fire.
Most people do until damage is done.
Quote:
There's no such thing as "jail-bait" in Mexico, and other contries as well; maybe this is just a cultural thing in our culture
You wouldn't present non-factual information on purpose I assume. Go do some research. The age of consent in Mexico is lower than in the US, but that's nothing to brag about. Congrats on having laws comparable to that of Zimbabwe.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Stranger
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11745730 - 12/30/09 09:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Umm... in zimbabwe homosexual sex is illegal... no laws like that exist in Mexico The laws of Mexico are similar to the ones in Eastern Europe
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11745749 - 12/30/09 09:15 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you, and you're correct. Poid is unable because he is unwilling to understand the extensive harm done to children of sexual abuse. The reason to me is obvious, but he would have to begin psychotherapy ASAP in order to break the cycle of abuse he is trapped in, and release the position of the abuser that he clings to with such stubbornness. To release the position of abuser would cast him into authentic selfhood - as a victim of abuse. This acceptance would first result in an emotional release, a temporary breakdown of all his ego-defenses which are what this pro-child-abuse stance is. It is protection against the inevitable confrontation with the anguish which any abused person in denial is suppressing. Coming to terms with abuse requires courage, because as in the Initial Sensitizing Event (ISE), the original sexual exploitation, there was experienced a loss of control at the hands of the abuser, whether remembered or not. One may not have been physically restrained, but one may well have been emotionally paralyzed, like a deer caught in the headlights. Abusing children is a pathetic attempt to feel in-control and powerful, and coming to terms with abuse is gonna bring up all those original feelings of loss of control, powerlessness, humiliation combined with arousal (that makes for submissives, hence the dominator Reaction Formation).
Sociologically, if victims refuse to take back their personal power by seeking therapy, the rest of us are obliged to protect the children. For me that means doing my job and following protocol - Department of Child and family Services and the police department of the jurisdiction in which the crime has been allegedly committed. In Miami, the Julia Tuttle Causeway is the address of hundreds of sex offenders. In other words, there is a subterranean tent city under a 4.9 mile long concrete bridge that is home to convicted predators, opportunistic offenders and pedophiles because nobody will rent to them or hire them, so abhorrent is this crime in the eyes of society.
http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/homepage.do;jsessionid=hYG0L8xbh7Tb4WbVLnNj1n3B9yPfJT81tMS1w4LRp48JTwyS9JNl!928531442
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
It's disgusting that I have these sites as desktop icons on the computer in the school in which I work.
"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." - Words attributed to Jesus, Mark 9:42, KJV
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11745772 - 12/30/09 09:18 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
There's no such thing as jailbait there because people fuck young (post-pubescent) girls there all the time and it's no big deal.
To WHOM is it no big deal? To a child's parents, grandparents, cousins? Some children actually do receive love and caring at the hands of family, not perverse exploitation.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Thank you, and you're correct. Poid is unable because he is unwilling to understand the extensive harm done to children of sexual abuse.
Good thing all sexual relationships between children and adults are not necessarily 'abuse'.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
so abhorrent is this crime in the eyes of society.
But not necessarily in all societies in all times and places.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Stranger
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Like I said earlier I am not going to take a position in this discussion but will assume the role as unofficial moderator. Markos you are not making an argument in support of your position based on logic and explanations. Instead you are attacking Poid as a person in order to discredit his position. This is a common logical fallacy. Like I said: I'm not taking sides. However if people are going to debate an issue it is not using correct logic when you resort to personal attacks. It is correct to explain why you think the other person is wrong using specific reasoning.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11745818 - 12/30/09 09:26 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Thank you, and you're correct. Poid is unable because he is unwilling to understand the extensive harm done to children of sexual abuse.
Good thing all sexual relationships between children and adults are not necessarily 'abuse'.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
so abhorrent is this crime in the eyes of society.
But not necessarily in all societies in all times and places.
Perhaps if you were in the Emperor's court in the days of ancient Rome, or in the Nazi high command - two strong examples of unenlightenment, ruthlessness, and the absence of empathy, compassion and conscience, you would be correct. But the question is, would YOU want to be protected to freely act with cruelty in those regimes? You see, those regimes were clearly sociopathic. They were morally evil. It doesn't take much for the multitudes to degenerate morally, especially if they are already moral degenerates simply clothed in a thin veneer of civilization.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11745833 - 12/30/09 09:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Zimbabwe may differ in their gay rights, but that's not the topic.
Taken as a whole, the average age of consent appears to be around 16. 15-18 seems to be the norm. This holds true for Eastern Europe as well, though I was able to find one exception... but it wasn't as low as Mexico.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11745842 - 12/30/09 09:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Again, it is certainly possible for a loving sexual relationship to occur between a child and an adult. Just because adults have manipulated and sexually abused children in the past does not mean that something evil is necessarily occurring just because of an age difference.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11745952 - 12/30/09 09:52 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Read again. Poid freely admitted publically to have been the victim of child sexual abuse, only he camouflaged those events in the present in order to make the appearance of some philosophical position. I am recasting his disguised self-affirmations and treating them as they really are, not as he wishes to portray them. I am therefore not defaming him or fabricating accusations. HE came out with it, but he is in denial about the true nature of his experiences. I am coming from a clinical stance, he is coming from a victim's stance which he has reversed to sound like he is pro-child abuse! This is a defense mechanism called Reaction Formation in the psychoanalytic literature - saying he wanted it to happen, when in truth he did not!
You are in error, I am coming from a position of logic based on a systematic treatment of phenomena that Poid himself described. I have a bias strongly against child sexual abuse for all kinds of reasons based on philosophical Utilitarian principles, and accepted psychological measures of moral development (see Lawrence Kohlberg, Jean Piaget, Carol Gilligan, Erick Erikson). I also am normal with respect to empathy, conscience and compassion - a pre-eminently normal emotional foundation upon which to build any logic that is instrumental in enacting compassionate care of other human beings. So, there are no personal attacks. There is clarification on several vectors (moral, psychological, sociological, legal), there is a referral for assistance with AASECT, and there is a truly established philosophical position of Utilitarianism (JS Mill, J. Bentham) which delineates, on the basis of moral, psychological, sociological and legal reasons, just why a position against child sexual abuse is not a debatable issue. Lack of logic on MY part? I don't think so.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11745966 - 12/30/09 09:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Again, it is certainly possible for a loving sexual relationship to occur between a child and an adult. Just because adults have manipulated and sexually abused children in the past does not mean that something evil is necessarily occurring just because of an age difference.
Wrong. I hope you haven't acted thusly for the sake of society's children. You must be mad to out yourself as a possible pedophile on this or any forum.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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I personally am not sexually attracted to children but I find it funny that you seem to believe age counts more than maturity as far as consensual sex goes.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11746044 - 12/30/09 10:14 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Again, it is certainly possible for a loving sexual relationship to occur between a child and an adult. Just because adults have manipulated and sexually abused children in the past does not mean that something evil is necessarily occurring just because of an age difference.
Someone has already admitted in another thread that a "loving relationship" is not part of the intention set. But in a general way I have conceded the possibility, what do you mean 'again'? Adults have manipulated and abused children in the past, and it's is a pretty good indication that it will continue into the future. Just because some people claim to have loving relationships with children doesn't mean... much of anything in regard to the law. I'd guess that many more minds are bent towards selfish gratification when it comes to fucking the children.
Again,
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11746067 - 12/30/09 10:17 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sorry, meant to reply to MarkostheGnostic, not you. I agree with what you are saying though.
The book Lolita by Nabokov is very appropriate to this thread as an example of a loving relationship between child and adult, BTW.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
Again, it is certainly possible for a loving sexual relationship to occur between a child and an adult. Just because adults have manipulated and sexually abused children in the past does not mean that something evil is necessarily occurring just because of an age difference.
Wrong. I hope you haven't acted thusly for the sake of society's children. You must be mad to out yourself as a possible pedophile on this or any forum.
Who's the Nazi again Markos?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
Poid said:
There's no such thing as jailbait there because people fuck young (post-pubescent) girls there all the time and it's no big deal.
To WHOM is it no big deal? To a child's parents, grandparents, cousins? Some children actually do receive love and caring at the hands of family, not perverse exploitation.
So sex with a person who is under 18 is necessarily "perverse exploitation"? 
I can't believe that you just don't seem to understand that these beliefs that you have about sex are merely cultural, and not every culture believes in them.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11747454 - 01/01/10 09:53 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Who's the Nazi again Markos?
Certainly not ME. I will always do my best to facilitate the removal of child sexual predators from further harm.
The only cultures that turn a blind eye to these behaviors are degenerated cultures comprised of degenerate individuals governed by their own perverse lusts and need for power over the weak.
Child sexual abuse does inestimable damage, and pedophiles are incorrigible in their refusal to care about this fact. FACT. "Baby-rapers" have to be segregated in jail, lest formerly abused prisoners kill them.
Nazi? No. More like one of the world's Allied Forces, liberating the child, like the Americans liberated the Nazi death-camps. It has been in this very arena that I am allied to Police, FBI and Child Protective Services, so make
no mistake about my position here with regard to the long-term injury of children. I have treated adult survivors of sexual abuse. Only a completely callous, non-empathic, individual without conscience (and by definition sociopathic) would find these behaviors acceptable, or a mental deficient. This is abnormal and not circumscribed by cultural mores. Mores do not define normal human moral development. Normal child rearing, doesn't mean sodomizing, in case you easily misunderstand things.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Child sexual abuse does inestimable damage
By definition because you're talking about child sexual abuse. Not all sexual relationships between children and adults are necessarily abusive because not all of these relationships necessarily harm the child.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11747540 - 01/01/10 10:20 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Child sexual abuse does inestimable damage
By definition because you're talking about child sexual abuse. Not all sexual relationships between children and adults are necessarily abusive because not all of these relationships necessarily harm the child.
That's just a huge lie. But lying is also part of the profile. You cling to lies, falsehood and deception, not truth when you make such pronouncements. You do not know what you're taking about, or you do, and are living in abject denial.
This just in! How synchronistic! Rev. J.S. Spong - A fairly enlightened man who I the privilege of meeting last year - reifies my own position.
Jann G. Gilley from Charlotte, North Carolina, asks:
You said in a recent lecture at Myers Park Baptist Church in Charlotte that you believe you love people into being loveable. What about sociopaths?
Dear Jann,
Indeed, sociopaths do not appear at first glance to fit into this way of viewing life. The first thing we need to determine is whether sociopaths are genetically produced or environmentally produced abnormalities. If it is a genetically or neurochemical precondition, then all that remains possible to us is to contain them within society and minimize the pain they inflict on others. Unfortunately, the process usually means that we do not discover their pathology until someone has been hurt by their behavior.
If sociopathology is an environmentally produced reality brought about by human abuse, either physically or psychologically, then we seek to counter it in a retraining process. The one thing we do not do is to tolerate destructive behavior. That requires what some psychiatrists call tough love. No person has a license to abuse anyone else regardless of the causes of his or her abusive behavior. So society must hold everyone accountable. That means treating by incarceration if necessary. That means institutional care for long terms, including lifetime, if no assurance can be given that responsible action has replaced systemically destructive action. The goal of all life is wholeness. Some people are so wounded that wholeness is not realistic, then lesser goals of safety and as much freedom as possible become that on which our sights are set.
Human wounding can be severe. Some human "givens" make wounding all but inevitable. Our goals as Christians do not change. The Christ we serve stated his purpose and ours to be that of giving life abundantly to all. It is the exigencies of life that define what the limits of abundant life are in every individual situation.
Some of the criminal behavior that creates headlines is clearly the work of sociopaths and psychopaths. No matter how heinous the crime, from Adolf Hitler to the Manson family, I do not favor execution. However, I do favor putting these people into a situation where they can never harm another person. Some people do sacrifice their right to live in a free society forever.
Thank you for your question.
– John Shelby Spong
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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There have been societies in the past where relationships with children(particularly young boys) were considered normal and healthy. Now, the way I see it, ideas like "normal" and "healthy" are relative to the cultural context. I certainly would have trouble seeing how such relationships could be normal and healthy in our modern society, but in past societies where it was a fact of life, I have trouble believing that people were all that traumatized by it.
PS: I'd recommend a high dose of psychedelics to you, as you're long overdue for an ego check.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Silversoul]
#11747635 - 01/01/10 10:44 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Child Sexual Abuse doesn't have to include trauma or pain to qualify as abuse and to have long lasting negative consequences as well. It's not uncommon for an adult to look back on their exploitation or early sexualization (even as early as 4 or 5 years old) and recall the event as sexually exciting, gratifying and arousing.
Though in cases like these, there was no violence or physical pain involved, the adult that this child eventually becomes will be faced with sociological challenges later in life.
Every case is different, but do take note that just because the sexual encounters may have been 'enjoyable', does not make it any less wrong, innappropriate or unhealthy.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Who's the Nazi again Markos?
Certainly not ME. I will always do my best to facilitate the removal of child sexual predators from further harm.
The only cultures that turn a blind eye to these behaviors are degenerated cultures comprised of degenerate individuals governed by their own perverse lusts and need for power over the weak.
Child sexual abuse does inestimable damage, and pedophiles are incorrigible in their refusal to care about this fact. FACT. "Baby-rapers" have to be segregated in jail, lest formerly abused prisoners kill them.
Nazi? No. More like one of the world's Allied Forces, liberating the child, like the Americans liberated the Nazi death-camps. It has been in this very arena that I am allied to Police, FBI and Child Protective Services, so make
no mistake about my position here with regard to the long-term injury of children. I have treated adult survivors of sexual abuse. Only a completely callous, non-empathic, individual without conscience (and by definition sociopathic) would find these behaviors acceptable, or a mental deficient. This is abnormal and not circumscribed by cultural mores. Mores do not define normal human moral development. Normal child rearing, doesn't mean sodomizing, in case you easily misunderstand things.
Sorry dude but your tomes are wasted on me. There is no black and white in the world except for Nazi types imo. You're no expert here that's easy enough to see. Just a title with a strong bias and a closed mind.
Oh and btw no one except maybe Poid finds deviant behaviors acceptable, get off your fucking high horse and deal with what these folk are saying. There are exceptions to every rule. If you can't see that at your age then there is very little you will ever see imo.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Silversoul]
#11747698 - 01/01/10 11:02 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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A warrior society like ancient Sparta was not a measure of health as I understand health/wholeness/holiness. The 'norms' of ancient societies included gladiatorial combat, feeding women and children to starved lions, turning human beings into pitch-covered flaming torches, placing newborn babies on ice flows or where animals and insects would devour them. The statistical 'norm' of Nazi Germany does not constitute human normalcy IF one holds to a higher form of human beinghood. It is in this adherence to an ideal humanity, an archetype of human development characterized by Compassion, that I consider myself 'Christian.' In the West, this mythic figure defines The Way - to BE. Lusting after children from newborns to toddlers to pre-pubescent to post-pubescent adolescents does not belong to this model of human development, which, btw, I am not the author of, but a follower of. So it is not MY ego that needs tweaking here. It is a pathetic excuse for selfhood that requires healing and rebuilding that requires an "ego-check." Anything goes is not an enlightened mentality, it is a deeply and sometimes sickly self-indulgent mentality. You will find the same attitude in the East among those who grok Buddha's original teachings on ahimsa, not to mention the inordinate attachments that these behaviors are motivated by. There is no middle ground here. One is either for the moral/ethical/legal obligations towards children in an evolving society, or one is against them. Yea of Nay. Citizen or criminal. Paternalistic or psychopathic.The past doesn't define normalcy, and neither do the rationalizations of those with aberrant sexual proclivities. If you're unclear, then it is YOU who needs a deep soul-searching - psychedelic, psychotherapeutic, religious or otherwise.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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I just love it when Christians start preaching. It always has condemnation in there somewhere.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
Again, it is certainly possible for a loving sexual relationship to occur between a child and an adult. Just because adults have manipulated and sexually abused children in the past does not mean that something evil is necessarily occurring just because of an age difference.
Wrong. I hope you haven't acted thusly for the sake of society's children. You must be mad to out yourself as a possible pedophile on this or any forum.
He did nothing of the sort. He's engaging in debate on this subject and nothing more. This type of Witch hunt posting is disgusting. Grow up or get out.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Edited by Icelander (01/01/10 11:39 AM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11747927 - 01/01/10 12:06 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
Child Sexual Abuse doesn't have to include trauma or pain to qualify as abuse and to have long lasting negative consequences as well. It's not uncommon for an adult to look back on their exploitation or early sexualization (even as early as 4 or 5 years old) and recall the event as sexually exciting, gratifying and arousing.
Though in cases like these, there was no violence or physical pain involved, the adult that this child eventually becomes will be faced with sociological challenges later in life.
Every case is different, but do take note that just because the sexual encounters may have been 'enjoyable', does not make it any less wrong, innappropriate or unhealthy.
If no negative consequences such as physical or emotional pain result from the sexual encounter (either immediately or down the road) then there is nothing 'wrong' about it. Moreover I could use your style of argument to say that most adult relationships are morally wrong because they can produce negative consequences in the form of heartbreak in the person eventually getting dumped.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
The past doesn't define normalcy, and neither do the rationalizations of those with aberrant sexual proclivities.
The only one defining 'absolute' morality here is you, and with no support for why a sexual relationship between adult and child that produces no negative consequences is wrong.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11747929 - 01/01/10 12:07 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I just love it when Christians start preaching. It always has condemnation in there somewhere.
It's funny, but predictable, that you would chime in now, only after I've entered a Christian source.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Actually not. I posted to you before that post.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11748024 - 01/01/10 12:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I should grow up? You should take a stand against pedophilia!
I have no problem with witches, it's pedophilia I have a problem with, and I work as a children's advocate, not someone tolerant to pedophilia. WTF is YOUR problem with children's advocacy against adult abuse?
It would seem that my position is a necessary balance on this thread to take such a stand in the face of so many sympathizers to sociopathy. This whole thread has been disgusting to me, but I'm not gonna turn away from it just because I am adverse to it. Someone had to counter the position. Why haven't you? Certainly not because the Third Patriarch of Zen says"Hold no opinions for or against anything." You're more opinionated than I am! The rife exploitation of children is a death nell of societal health. It is a major component of all those Iron Age, End Times, Kali Yuga myths that one hears tell about.
I've done my part in this thread, and I'm satisfied that I have expressed myself thusly. So, I'll gladly take your suggestion and leave the discussion. The irrationality of aberrant drives, howsoever rationalized, is still not reasonable, and I know how much you enthrone reason. Reason alone will not prevent crimes against humanity, unfortunately. Damage needs first to be done, followed by victim treatment and victimizer correction (i.e., Dept. of Corrections). That's just the state of things with the so-called human condition, because the multitudes won't raise themselves out of their own muck and grow up - towards the Light.
Later, and elsewhere.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
That's just the state of things with the so-called human condition, because the multitudes won't raise themselves out of their own muck and grow up - towards the Light.
The multitudes also tend to believe that their subjective beliefs about morality are necessarily Absolute Truth, too.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I should grow up? You should take a stand against pedophilia!
I have no problem with witches, it's pedophilia I have a problem with, and I work as a children's advocate, not someone tolerant to pedophilia. WTF is YOUR problem with children's advocacy against adult abuse?
It would seem that my position is a necessary balance on this thread to take such a stand in the face of so many sympathizers to sociopathy. This whole thread has been disgusting to me, but I'm not gonna turn away from it just because I am adverse to it. Someone had to counter the position. Why haven't you? Certainly not because the Third Patriarch of Zen says"Hold no opinions for or against anything." You're more opinionated than I am! The rife exploitation of children is a death nell of societal health. It is a major component of all those Iron Age, End Times, Kali Yuga myths that one hears tell about.
I've done my part in this thread, and I'm satisfied that I have expressed myself thusly. So, I'll gladly take your suggestion and leave the discussion. The irrationality of aberrant drives, howsoever rationalized, is still not reasonable, and I know how much you enthrone reason. Reason alone will not prevent crimes against humanity, unfortunately. Damage needs first to be done, followed by victim treatment and victimizer correction (i.e., Dept. of Corrections). That's just the state of things with the so-called human condition, because the multitudes won't raise themselves out of their own muck and grow up - towards the Light.
Later, and elsewhere.
What I take a stand against is emotional and physical abuse of the innocent. The term paedophilia is a catch all phrase that seems, in your case at least, to prohibit reasoned exploration and discussion. Why? cause anyone who doesn't agree with you seems to be a pedophile in your mind.
What I am against is self righteous condemnation of those who don't agree. I've had plenty of that kind of Fundy shit from the politicians who seem hell bent on controlling me from top to bottom. The fact that you brought religion and Christianity into this is what doesn't surprise me one bit.
For me I already have countered Poids position. But I'm not going to be against the discussion of the subject in an open and reasonable way as you seem to be. And because I'm open to discussion does not mean I'm for or against any position. Nor am I obligated to be for or against anyone who isn't in agreement with me. I'll take that on a case by case basis.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Edited by Icelander (01/01/10 01:08 PM)
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lines
Stranger
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11748112 - 01/01/10 01:02 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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The correct spelling is paedophilia not pedophilia. The root word pedo means foot.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11748122 - 01/01/10 01:03 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I say we burn the foot fetishists too for their sexual perversities. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11748123 - 01/01/10 01:03 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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thanks
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,381
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11748191 - 01/01/10 01:20 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Foot abuse is serious stuff.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11748954 - 01/01/10 04:06 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Oh and btw no one except maybe Poid finds deviant behaviors acceptable...
Deviance is subjective.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11750357 - 01/01/10 09:21 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Child Sexual Abuse doesn't have to include trauma or pain to qualify as abuse and to have long lasting negative consequences as well. It's not uncommon for an adult to look back on their exploitation or early sexualization (even as early as 4 or 5 years old) and recall the event as sexually exciting, gratifying and arousing.
Though in cases like these, there was no violence or physical pain involved, the adult that this child eventually becomes will be faced with sociological challenges later in life.
Every case is different, but do take note that just because the sexual encounters may have been 'enjoyable', does not make it any less wrong, innappropriate or unhealthy.
If no negative consequences such as physical or emotional pain result from the sexual encounter (either immediately or down the road) then there is nothing 'wrong' about it. Moreover I could use your style of argument to say that most adult relationships are morally wrong because they can produce negative consequences in the form of heartbreak in the person eventually getting dumped.
there are always consequences for early sexualization.
Comparing my point to an adult situation lacks reason and logic.
I've lost respect for many of you. I can't see how anyone could endorse having sex with children.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11750589 - 01/01/10 10:13 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fraggin, I agree. Even a hardcore mystic (Markos) is better than all you nihilists in this thread who obviosuly have no morality at all.
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PoopIntrusion
Stranger
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When I was 13 years old I clearly and distinctly remember wanting to have sex with older people, who were 20-30 years old. I was completely conscious that this could not happen. I thought it was stupid. I still think the same thing.
Of course, I still tend to be attracted to people who are 10 or so years older than myself.
For the most interesting, less bias based on normalization, you should look at this medievalist historian's study on sexuality through the use of the diaries of royalty. Remember, it was not uncommon for someone who was 12 to be married, for them to have indentured servants, and for them to be expected to sleep with those servants while maintaining that they ought not reproduce with them.
I belivee the book is called Centuries of Childhood by Philip Aries
My take is that erotism threatens the social forming cornerstones of school and family. If an older person were to fall in love with a younger person they could rip them away from school and away from their families, and instead the younger would be able to learn about the world very closely from the older person. Basically a life teacher.
I'm keeping age bracketed and out of the question.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
there are always consequences for early sexualization.
Sure. Are these consequences always negative? Not necessarily.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Fraggin, I agree. Even a hardcore mystic (Markos) is better than all you nihilists in this thread who obviosuly have no morality at all.
Obviously.
Disregarding whether or not morality can even be made objective, if we adopt a system of morality that sees harming people as a bad thing then certainly child abuse is a bad thing. My point is that all sexual relationships between children and adults are not necessarily abusive, and therefore not necessarily wrong.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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This whole thing is about values. Why would someone want and seek to value a relationship with someone who is sexually/emotionally immature? What other reason can they have other than one derived from low-self esteem and an affinity towards the destruction/desecration/ of the good for being the good and of all future values/ a perverse attraction towards that which is not a value. Debasement of oneself is not a course of action that is moral or valid given that ones central purpose is ones own happiness that relies on integrity and self-esteem.
The only conceivable motivations for a person to seek out these sick sexual relationship are as follows:
Lust for Power.
Low self-esteem.
Hatred/destruction of values.
This thread has made me rethink my participation on this forum and realize that so many of you are amoral/anti-moral nihilists and parasites.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Why would someone want and seek to value a relationship with someone who is sexually/emotionally immature?
You seem to forget that maturity is a separate quality from age.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
This thread has made me rethink my participation on this forum and realize that so many of you are amoral/anti-moral nihilists and parasites.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize your arguments weren't good enough to publicly prevail against the philosophical position of moral nihilism.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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lines
Stranger
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 1,261
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Why did you say that people on this forum are parasites?
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11751319 - 01/02/10 02:40 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I fell behind on this thread but maybe it was for the best to get the reading now.
Please stop with the name calling. If you can't refute or approach ideas then just pull out. For instance, Icelander with this Nazi thing (and that was a lame interpretation of Nazism as totalitarianism anyhow).
This forum and the mix of perspectives lends to difficulty in discussion. Also, as we see with philosophy, young people love to use it to tear apart any idea or stance they come across. That's how they learn to use their newly found tools of thought. Whether those arguments are applicable in practice or reflect reality are irrelevant, because you get a sublimated erotic surge from rationally defying and deconstructing the logically possible opponents you destroy. As we can also see this issue is not only theoretical but practical as well. We're not discussing causality but the well-being of society, parenting, etc and nearly everyone has strong opinions on these things. The issue becomes less about pedophilia and more about indulging in a series of arguments that defend your position in your practical, actual relation to the issue at hand.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
Whether those arguments are applicable in practice or reflect reality are irrelevant, because you get a sublimated erotic surge from the act of rationally defying and deconstructing what the logically possible opponents you destroy.
I like it when you talk dirty. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11751338 - 01/02/10 02:56 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am ever coy with my afflictions of amorous abomination.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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This whole thing is about values. Why would someone want and seek to value a relationship with someone who is sexually/emotionally immature?
I know some thirteen year old's that are more mature then a lot of the people who post here.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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This thread has made me rethink my participation on this forum and realize that so many of you are amoral/anti-moral nihilists and parasites.
Excellent! Bye bye. Take your blinders with you.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11751785 - 01/02/10 07:41 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've lost respect for many of you. I can't see how anyone could endorse having sex with children.
In my neighborhood growing up there was a 13 year old and a 19 year old who "messed" around. And they are married now with children of their own.
Certain people here have made reference to the ability of certain people to be mature at different ages and there is a possibility that the guildlines of the law are general and not applical to all cases.
Why would any one want the respect of someone who has a very narrow, rigid outlook on life? It's a fear based stance imo.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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zoomfan
doubt 'er
Registered: 07/16/09
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11752206 - 01/02/10 09:41 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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id like to see a study done on other primates, regarding sexuality and age. as well as whether its consentual or not. Its a shitty deal that what could be called perfectly natural, could also be so psychologically painful. i believe consent and intent are the main issues. i know a couple who have a huge age gap, it was illegal at one point now they are engaged and seem quite happy.
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Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.
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Icelander
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: zoomfan]
#11752410 - 01/02/10 10:39 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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The fact is that not all people mature at the same time. You really can't say ok you're 18 now and you are an adult and you can take care of yourself.
People who need to see human behavior in black and white often have emotional conflict over their own desires and feelings.
I really didn't see more then one person here advocating sex with children but rater opening the idea for discussion and debate. Saying that it's possible for and adult and someone under legal age to have a healthy sexual relationship is not avocation of general sex between adults and children. Those who saw it that way might be in great conflict over their own sexuality, the same as a preacher in the pulpit condemning homosexuality while engaging in it on the sly or just thinking about it and being conflicted about it.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Icelander
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: zoomfan]
#11752422 - 01/02/10 10:43 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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And I would imagine puberty to be the time when sexuality happens in other primates because they are more attuned to visual and odor cues rather than some mental fantasy.
I think nature dictate the best time for sexual behaviors. For myself I think that any sex with prepubescents might likely be emotionally damaging although I'm no expert here and could be wrong.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11752855 - 01/02/10 11:56 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think that any sex with prepubescents might likely be emotionally damaging
I tend to agree. And the advent of puberty doesn't exactly clear things up, but rather, makes things more confusing. The discrepancy between puberty and age of consent (generally a 3 year period) is in place for this very reason.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11753067 - 01/02/10 12:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
there are always consequences for early sexualization.
Proof?
Quote:
Fraggin said:
I've lost respect for many of you. I can't see how anyone could endorse having sex with children.
I don't think anybody here is endorsing it.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Fraggin, I agree. Even a hardcore mystic (Markos) is better than all you nihilists in this thread who obviosuly have no morality at all.
I live by the saying "Live and let die."; I'm not here on Earth to harm people, but I definitely will not sheepishly follow other peoples' morals!
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RationalEgo said:
This whole thing is about values.
Whose fucking values? Yours? 
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Why would someone want and seek to value a relationship with someone who is sexually/emotionally immature?
Because they're horny, maybe?
WTF is sexual/emotional immaturity? How can this be measured objectively?
Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
I think that any sex with prepubescents might likely be emotionally damaging
I tend to agree. And the advent of puberty doesn't exactly clear things up, but rather, makes things more confusing. The discrepancy between puberty and age of consent (generally a 3 year period) is in place for this very reason.
I fooled around with a girl my age when I was about 5, and I completely enjoyed it; absolutely nothing bad came of it.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/02/10 02:20 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11753411 - 01/02/10 01:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Again while one might be confused another may not.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11753732 - 01/02/10 02:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yup; like you've been saying in this thread, nothing is black-&-white in this world. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11753777 - 01/02/10 02:26 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Again while one    
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Don't worry be happy.
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lines
Stranger
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11753850 - 01/02/10 02:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Yup; like you've been saying in this thread, nothing is black-&-white in this world.
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: lines]
#11753880 - 01/02/10 02:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not everybody is affected in exactly the same way by whatever given experience (i.e.- there is no general rule which works for everyone equally).
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11753935 - 01/02/10 02:49 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Not everybody is affected in exactly the same way by whatever given experience (i.e.- there is no general rule which works for everyone equally).
Yes.
This is true.
The only question that remains is?
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Don't worry be happy.
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Poid
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
The only question that remains is?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11753998 - 01/02/10 02:59 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
The only question that remains is?
Time to Move On Soldier.
Or in the words of a famous Doctor "It's Dead Jim"
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Don't worry be happy.
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Poid
deBunker
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Aw, man...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MushroomTrip
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Quote:
This whole thing is about values.
Whose values exactly? Surely not of those who want to engage in illegal of age sex, so next time you mention values, try to be more specific. 
Quote:
Why would someone want and seek to value a relationship with someone who is sexually/emotionally immature?
What importance does it make?
Why would anyone want to have anal sex, or group sex, or travel to Venice? Probably because they find enjoyment in it.
I happen to know some 30+ year old people, who are still emotionally immature, and who act in their relationships like stupid spoiled kids. Should it be illegal for their partners to have sex with them?
Quote:
What other reason can they have other than one derived from low-self esteem and an affinity towards the destruction/desecration/ of the good for being the good and of all future values/ a perverse attraction towards that which is not a value.
WTF is "good for being" and "good for all future values"?
Values don't have to be the same generation over generation, just for the sake of keeping them "sacred".
Who gets to decide, and how, universally, what is of value and what isn't, and how can you be so sure that underage sex causes harm, in all cases?
Quote:
Debasement of oneself is not a course of action that is moral or valid given that ones central purpose is ones own happiness that relies on integrity and self-esteem.
How does someone have a lesser value as a human being, just from having sex with underage teens? Don't you see the huge gap in your reasoning from point A (sex with underage teens) to point B (losing one's integrity)? What happened in between these points, what thoughts occurred in order to bring you to your conclusion?
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Why would anyone want to have anal sex, or group sex, or travel to Venice? Probably because they find enjoyment in it.
I happen to know low-self esteem and an affinity towards being perverse
Values do the same generation over generation, just for the sake of keeping them "sacred".
Who gets to decide, and how, universally, what is of value and what isn't, and how can you be so sure that underage sex causes harm, in all cases?
Quote:
Debase is given ones ones own on tee.
How does someone have a lesser value as a human being, just from having sex with underage teens? Don't you see the huge gap? What happened in between these points?
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Don't worry be happy.
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11755745 - 01/02/10 07:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I fooled around with a girl my age when I was about 5, and I completely enjoyed it; absolutely nothing bad came of it.
5 year olds don't really qualify to be pedophiles.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755759 - 01/02/10 07:26 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was arguing against the ridiculous assertion that children who have sexual experiences will necessarily suffer damage and/or trauma as a result.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755764 - 01/02/10 07:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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My son had sex with an 16 year old girl when he was 18. I guess he is a pedophile even if he did marry her 2 years later.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11755777 - 01/02/10 07:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Again while one might be confused another may not.
Yea, but you're making it sound like it could be about 50/50. One confused, one not.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755787 - 01/02/10 07:31 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Doesn't sound like that to me at all.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755789 - 01/02/10 07:31 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I didn't make it anything. You decided to hear it that way. And if you read my other posts you would know better.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
My son had sex with an 16 year old girl when he was 18. I guess he is a pedophile even if he did marry her 2 years later.
Two years difference isn't very meaningful. A lot of states allow a lower age of consent when the older person is within 10 years. 16 is generally the age of consent anyway.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755813 - 01/02/10 07:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
My son had sex with an 16 year old girl when he was 18. I guess he is a pedophile even if he did marry her 2 years later.
Two years difference isn't very meaningful.
I don't think that the age difference alone is ever too meaningful.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755819 - 01/02/10 07:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nope, by law in the state I lived at the time he could have been prosecuted. That makes him a pedophile. On the surface he seems all right. He is in a promising career in an elite field, and his wife is happy with her association with him, but he is still a pedophile. Obviously he is a moral degenerate.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Rahz
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Perhaps in the eyes of the law, but that doesn't make him a moral degenerate.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755845 - 01/02/10 07:41 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Many would say he is.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755856 - 01/02/10 07:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I raised him dammit, and I taught him well. I guarantee he is a moral degenerate.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11755909 - 01/02/10 07:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I didn't make it anything. You decided to hear it that way. And if you read my other posts you would know better.
Yes, I knew better, but there are exceptions to just about everything in the social sphere. What bothers me is that I have trouble envisioning the newly post-pubescent having a nurturing sexual relationship with a mature adult. This would be a rare child. And I would question the motives of any mature adult who took it upon themselves to have a relationship with the newly post-pubescent. It's like looking for the fairy tale needle in the hay stack.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Rahz
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
I raised him dammit, and I taught him well. I guarantee he is a moral degenerate.
Okay, if you say so. But to my mind he wouldn't be a pedophile.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755913 - 01/02/10 07:59 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
What bothers me is that I have trouble envisioning the newly post-pubescent having a nurturing sexual relationship with a mature adult.
Why does this trouble you?
Quote:
Rahz said:
This would be a rare child.
It wouldn't be a child, and it isn't rare at all. 
Quote:
Rahz said:
And I would question the motives of any mature adult who took it upon themselves to have a relationship with the newly post-pubescent.
But you wouldn't question the "child's" motives?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755929 - 01/02/10 08:04 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I didn't make it anything. You decided to hear it that way. And if you read my other posts you would know better.
Yes, I knew better, but there are exceptions to just about everything in the social sphere. What bothers me is that I have trouble envisioning the newly post-pubescent having a nurturing sexual relationship with a mature adult. This would be a rare child. And I would question the motives of any mature adult who took it upon themselves to have a relationship with the newly post-pubescent. It's like looking for the fairy tale needle in the hay stack.
And what do you base this amazing knowledge on? Just because you have a hard time imagining something?
Look I already told about one I knew of and lets face it. Nobody is going to be broadcasting this stuff.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11755956 - 01/02/10 08:10 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why does this trouble you?
Because people lie and present false motives, and what is more common, and thus more realistic is that a man who cannot handle a woman who has a developed sense of self will prey on little girls who do not.
Quote:
It wouldn't be a child, and it isn't rare at all.
It's obvious to me that it is quite rare.
Quote:
But you wouldn't question the "child's" motives?
Not as likely. Children aren't generally held to be responsible because they don't really understand the implications of their decisions, are more likely to trust/aren't as able to read other people's intentions.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755963 - 01/02/10 08:14 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Why does this trouble you?
Because people lie and present false motives, and what is more common, and thus more realistic is that a man who cannot handle a woman who has a developed sense of self will prey on little girls who do not.
If it were legal, all s/he would have to say is, "Hey little girl/boy, wanna fuck? ".
Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
It wouldn't be a child, and it isn't rare at all.
It's obvious to me that it is quite rare.
Why, have you fucked a few yourself or something?
Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
But you wouldn't question the "child's" motives?
Children aren't generally held to be responsible...
Yes, this is true; again, though, a post-pubescent individual is not considered to be a child, in a biological sense anyways.
Quote:
Rahz said:
...because they don't really understand the implications of their decisions...
Like a teenager doesn't understand the basic implications of having sex.
Quote:
Rahz said:
...are more likely to trust/aren't as able to read other people's intentions.
Um, what if it was the teenager who was the aggressor? Or do you believe that this is rare, too?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11755964 - 01/02/10 08:16 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
And what do you base this amazing knowledge on?
There's nothing amazing about it. Common sense.
I spent quite a lot of time around that age bracket when I was that age. I've also worked with kids, and out of many hundreds, none of them struck me as 'mature'. There were several pre and post-pubescent girls that had crushes on me, but I wouldn't construe this as emotional maturity.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755969 - 01/02/10 08:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why does one have to be "emotionally mature" in order to enjoy the pleasures of sex?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11755970 - 01/02/10 08:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've enjoyed conversing with you in the past, but... not worth responding to.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Registered: 02/04/08
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Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11755972 - 01/02/10 08:20 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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What a great debater you are!
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11756010 - 01/02/10 08:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's partly because you're asking the same shit you've already asked. Partly because I don't like your general attitude. But sure, I'm a bad debater.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11756023 - 01/02/10 08:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
And what do you base this amazing knowledge on?
There's nothing amazing about it. Common sense.
I spent quite a lot of time around that age bracket when I was that age. I've also worked with kids, and out of many hundreds, none of them struck me as 'mature'. There were several pre and post-pubescent girls that had crushes on me, but I wouldn't construe this as emotional maturity.
And what do you know about emotional maturity? You don't strike me as being that mature either.
Your "common" sense is another's idiocy.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11756026 - 01/02/10 08:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
It's partly because you're asking the same shit you've already asked.
I'm just responding to your words.
Quote:
Rahz said:
Partly because I don't like your general attitude. But sure, I'm a bad debater.
It's too bad that you're projecting this imaginary attitude on me.
If a person's general attitude (whether real or imagined) gets in the way of a another person's willingness to debate, then yes, that person is a bad debater.
I was being completely serious, I don't know what's so hard about addressing what I said.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/09/10 03:09 PM)
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11756177 - 01/02/10 09:03 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
And what do you know about emotional maturity? You don't strike me as being that mature either.
I don't think it's reasonable to state that upon puberty any meaningful percentage of the population have the ability to see beyond their emotions, or more importantly see beyond the veneer that older people may wear. At that state, they still haven't claimed any real person hood, and self assertive behaviour is sporadic. Decisions are sporadic. Emotional bonds are prime. Everything is new. Experientially, it is impossible for them to be mature.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
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Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11756287 - 01/02/10 09:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
And what do you know about emotional maturity? You don't strike me as being that mature either.
I don't think it's reasonable to state that upon puberty any meaningful percentage of the population have the ability to see beyond their emotions, or more importantly see beyond the veneer that older people may wear.
And what makes you think that the older person is always necessarily the aggressor?
Quote:
Rahz said:
At that state, they still haven't claimed any real person hood, and self assertive behaviour is sporadic. Decisions are sporadic. Emotional bonds are prime. Everything is new. Experientially, it is impossible for them to be mature.
Why does one have to be emotionally mature in order to enjoy the pleasures of sex?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11756576 - 01/02/10 10:33 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
And what makes you think that the older person is always necessarily the aggressor?
I didn't say they were, but that's not the only factor in culpability. I actually appreciate laws that give young men some leeway.
Quote:
Why does one have to be emotionally mature in order to enjoy the pleasures of sex?
One doesn't. But generally speaking, in my experience of course, girls who start early and switch 'fuck buddies' frequently aren't the happy campers. The point is to give these kids a period of time to consider their new state without having dicks in their face, basically. We've already had this exchange. It's not all fun and games. I don't expect you to take my word for it though.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11757353 - 01/03/10 04:02 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
One doesn't. But generally speaking, in my experience of course, girls who start early and switch 'fuck buddies' frequently aren't the happy campers.
What do you mean by your experience? How did you measure the happiness of those girls, and how did you determine that the reason why they were unhappy was because they were switching partners? Did you conduct any psychological test on them, or is this just your biased, emotional perception of them?
The reasons why anyone (both girls and boys) decide to frequently switch their partners are multiple and variate from individual to individual, so obviously you can't put them under the same umbrella, unless your intention is to draw more attention to a point that doesn't have chances to stand on it's own.
For instance, a girl who grew up needing parental affection and never got it, could be very unhappy with her self image, being unable to feel self-sufficient and frightened of loneliness. In her attempts to avoid loneliness, she will get involved with any male she meets, become fuck buddies for a few weeks, until she will get deserted exactly because of her dependent personality. She will be depressed for a couple of weeks after, and then she will start looking for someone else to fill that void. Over and over. Clearly we're not talking about a happy or emotionally healthy girl, but her lack of happiness isn't because of her sex life; in this case, what she does with her sex life is that she uses it as a method of avoiding her real, deeper problem, a problem that would still exist as long as she doesn't directly address it.
As another example, I will use a girl who doesn't have any emotional scar, feels perfectly happy with or without a sexual partner, and isn't afraid to be all by herself for extended periods of time. At the same time, she happens to enjoy sex, and doesn't want to have a stable relationship yet. She wants to meet all kinds of people and have fun with them, without committing to anything deeper. Now tell me, why do you want to make this girl seem unhappy too, just so she can fit your understanding of life?
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Rahz
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I said frequently and I'll stick by it. Besides, I think you're missing the context, specifically "Why can't 12-13 year olds (or younger) have casual sex with anyone, regardless of the other person's age?"
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11757661 - 01/03/10 07:20 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
And what do you know about emotional maturity? You don't strike me as being that mature either.
I don't think it's reasonable to state that upon puberty any meaningful percentage of the population have the ability to see beyond their emotions, or more importantly see beyond the veneer that older people may wear. At that state, they still haven't claimed any real person hood, and self assertive behaviour is sporadic. Decisions are sporadic. Emotional bonds are prime. Everything is new. Experientially, it is impossible for them to be mature.
I hardly know any people under forty or fifty who I would consider emotionally mature in the relationship/sexual realm. And one does not gain experience unless one does something. You gain experience sexually by having sex.
But I'm not going to debate this nonsense any further with you. I've stated my position and I'm not trying to defend the position you are trying to say I'm in defense of. As I said there are exceptions for every rule.
And I have a quote for you, and I hope you will take it to heart. "No sex for you" -The Sex Nazi
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11757701 - 01/03/10 07:32 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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What do you mean by "frequently", from a statistical POV? Regardless, your statement is still the same: girls that keep switching their partners for random, casual sex, are not happy.
Regarding the pre-pubescent sex issue, I can't see what the partner's age has to do with anything, since we are still taking about sex, either way. Why do you assume that a 12 year old having sex with a 23 year old will be much more traumatized than the same 12 year old having sex with another 12 year old? If anything, bringing a little bit more experience in the game can have the ability to make the experience more pleasant, instead of more confusing.
I paid very close attention to kids' emotional development, and realized that, usually, the underage sexual experience has a great potential of harming them in the cases in which the family does little or nothing to help the young teenager to mature, preferring to raise their kid in fear and superstition. From this angle, I agree that underage sex could be traumatic, but only because of the environment in which one is being raised, and that this doesn't mean that underage sex is harmful in itself.
There is a question I keep asking in these threads, and nobody ever wanted to address it - maybe you will: Should sex with ALL emotionally immature people be illegal, since apparently underage sex is illegal mostly for this reason?
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11757711 - 01/03/10 07:34 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I hardly know any people under forty or fifty who I would consider emotionally mature in the relationship/sexual realm. And one does not gain experience unless one does something. You gain experience sexually by having sex.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11758757 - 01/03/10 12:18 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
And what makes you think that the older person is always necessarily the aggressor?
I didn't say they were, but that's not the only factor in culpability. I actually appreciate laws that give young men some leeway.
How young? How much leeway?
Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Why does one have to be emotionally mature in order to enjoy the pleasures of sex?
One doesn't. But generally speaking, in my experience of course, girls who start early and switch 'fuck buddies' frequently aren't the happy campers.
And you know that they aren't "happy campers" as a result of them starting "early" and switching to fuck buddies, how exactly?
Quote:
Rahz said:
The point is to give these kids a period of time to consider their new state without having dicks in their face, basically.
What "new state" are you even speaking of? Don't you know that it's natural for children to masturbate themselves, and that it's not uncommon for them to play "doctor" with each other?
Why is giving kids a period of time to consider their "new state" without having dicks in their face even a point?
Quote:
Rahz said:
It's not all fun and games
It can be.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/03/10 12:23 PM)
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Rahz
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Quote:
What do you mean by "frequently", from a statistical POV? Regardless, your statement is still the same: girls that keep switching their partners for random, casual sex, are not happy.
By frequently I mean that it seems more likely than not based on my observations. I don't have stats (though I would guess they exist) but I have plenty of anecdotal evidence. If my veracity or capability is in question then my evidence is also in question. That's okay. Are girls who keep switching their partners for random, casual sex, more likely to be happy?
Quote:
Why do you assume that a 12 year old having sex with a 23 year old will be much more traumatized than the same 12 year old having sex with another 12 year old?
The majority of 23 year old males will have nothing much in common with the 12 year old set. I would assume the intent was to take advantage of the 12 year olds lack of reasoning, and I would assume dysfunction. It seems like reasonable assumptions to me. Not throwing away possibility, I could be wrong. What I've been hoping for are actual examples of this assumption being wrong, and none have been forth coming except for DeCypher's recommendation which I have yet to read. If I am wrong, it should be provable. "It's possible" isn't very meaningful. "It's hidden" is worth considering, but also not very meaningful.
Quote:
Should sex with ALL emotionally immature people be illegal, since apparently underage sex is illegal mostly for this reason?
It's a complex issue, and it seems that some sheltering in the early years (several years post-puberty), giving way to freedom, is the best approach that does not unduly infringe upon people's liberty, or their development towards independence. We can prove that the brain hasn't finished developing in the majority of under aged people. Beyond that it's not so clear. This fact has not prevented people from wanting to do what you're asking about, which would be eugenics programs... though they weren't conceived for the benefit of those in question.
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rahz
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Fraggin
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Rahz]
#11761618 - 01/03/10 08:39 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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some of the stances offered here are from an age viewpoint.
I see most of you referring to postpubescent or pubesescent ages. 12 to 18. Which there is a degree of normality to within nature.
I think that shit just got on the wrong track when poid started talking about 5 year old sex...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11761647 - 01/03/10 08:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree that Poids on the wrong track.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11764779 - 01/04/10 12:03 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
I think that shit just got on the wrong track when poid started talking about 5 year old sex...
I was talking about my own sexual experiences when I was five with a girl my age, and using that example as a rebuttal against your bullshit statement that children who become sexualized automatically & necessarily suffer from psychological trauma as a result.
Don't you think it's natural for kids to fool around with each other? Kids play "doctor" with each other all the fucking time...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11765302 - 01/04/10 01:23 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's a consequence of poor parenting.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11765443 - 01/04/10 01:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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A consequence of poor parenting that their kid is having sexual impulses at 5 years old, and acting on them?
What would a good parent have done, in your opinion, to prevent something like this?
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
A consequence of poor parenting that their kid is having sexual impulses at 5 years old, and acting on them?
What would a good parent have done, in your opinion, to prevent something like this?
Lock 'em in a room until they're 18.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11765462 - 01/04/10 01:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Same room?
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Fraggin
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Communicating with children about such things is usually a good start.
I started communicating with my son about such realities of life at age 3.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11765518 - 01/04/10 01:50 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's quite the parental fantasy.
Don't get me wrong, I think that talking and explaining are great things to do, but just don't be surprised if your kid will still decide to do whatever crosses his mind, regardless of your advice.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Fraggin
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I don't necessarily give advice. I share the truth with my children. Non-judgementally and without shame.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11765638 - 01/04/10 02:11 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just out of curiosity, what do you tell them, and what makes you so sure that they won't act on sexual impulse from a really young age?
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
Icelander
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All the little kids in my neighbor hood played doctor. It felt perfectly natural except for knowing that the adults would freak fucking out.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11765774 - 01/04/10 02:33 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, playing doctor was cool!
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
Fraggin
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I'm guess you don't have kids.
These kinds of conversations begin with "the real word for it is penis" and evolve over time...
My son has a firm understanding that pretty girls make his penis hard for a scientific reason and one day those feelings will come in handy when he decides to start looking for a female to mate with.
I can't be sure about anything. I can only have confidence in the social health of my child and my parenting abilities. I'm confident that he's made it to 6 years old without being genatalized, sexualized, sodomized, victimized, or molested. So, I know I've done a better job than my parents did....
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pothead_bob
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11765813 - 01/04/10 02:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Like a teenager doesn't understand the basic implications of having sex.
Might want to rethink that comment...
Quote:
A study published on Tuesday revealed large and disturbing gaps in American teenagers' knowledge about sex, gaps which may be tied to the prevalence of abstinence-only sex education in American schools. Although most sexually active unmarried adults believe that pregnancy should be planned, about half do not use contraception regularly.
The study, conducted by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, had more disturbing findings, especially in the gaps between people's intentions and their actions. According to CNN, "29 percent of women and 42 percent of men said it is at least slightly likely they will have unprotected sex in the next three months -- and it's quite likely or extremely likely for 17 percent of women and 19 percent of men."
Many people surveyed did not know how to use basic forms of contraception (63 percent said they knew little or nothing about birth control pills, and 30 percent said they had scant knowledge about condoms). The problem seems to be that as prevalent as forms of birth control seem to be in pop culture, people are never actually taught how to use them.
Myths about sex still proliferate, even among young adults. According to the study, 28 percent of men believe they will get extra protection from wearing two condoms at once (this is a practice that actually leads to condom breakage). At the same time, 18 percent of men also (incorrectly) believe that having sex standing up reduces the chance that they will get a female partner pregnant.
http://www.care2.com/causes/education/blog/when-it-comes-to-sex-american-young-adults-are-surprisingly-ignorant/
Poid, I'm curious, do you believe it is more or less likely that a four year old who has sexual relations with an adult will have negative consequences when compared to a post-pubescent teenager who has sex with an adult? Let's say the age gap is the same between 4 y/o and adult and post-pubescent and adult. Or do you believe there is no difference in the risk? This is assuming that the sex is 'consensual' all around.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11765856 - 01/04/10 02:47 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Really, do I have to be a parent to know how a discussion of this kind goes?
I was asking about specific parts of discussion, that you think will make your kid unwilling to act on sexual impulses, because you seemed pretty sure that he didn't and that he won't give them any course, as long as he is still "too young".
Acting on sexual impulses as a kid doesn't necessarily have to be traumatizing, especially when this thing doesn't happen against the kid's will.
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I'm confident that he's made it to 6 years old without being genatalized, sexualized, sodomized, victimized, or molested.
Yeah, but how can you know this for sure? It's not like he is going to drastically change after some sort of sexual contact, be it of any kind, granted that he wanted it to happen.
My parents were ready to cross their hearts and hope to die that I was "unsexualized", even though my first sexual sexual experience was with another girl, when I was 6 or 7.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
Edited by MushroomTrip (01/04/10 02:54 PM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11765864 - 01/04/10 02:48 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
It's a consequence of poor parenting.
That's the second stupidest bullshit that I've ever heard in my life.
I like how you just spew out complete bullshit and feel like, probably because this is such a taboo matter, you have absolutely no reason to back up the said bullshit with evidence.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Like a teenager doesn't understand the basic implications of having sex.
Might want to rethink that comment...
I'm not going to even read that study because it is indefatigably obvious that not every teenager is unaware about the basic implications of sex.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Poid, I'm curious, do you believe it is more or less likely that a four year old who has sexual relations with an adult will have negative consequences when compared to a post-pubescent teenager who has sex with an adult?
I don't think age is as important as the individual; as has been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread, nothing is black-&-white.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Let's say the age gap is the same between 4 y/o and adult and post-pubescent and adult. Or do you believe there is no difference in the risk? This is assuming that the sex is 'consensual' all around.
If the sex is consensual all around, then how would/could damage result?
Do you even know what consent means?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/04/10 02:53 PM)
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dopestone
tryptavision
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 748
Last seen: 4 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11765912 - 01/04/10 02:56 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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in general, i'm not sure if i'm indecisive or not.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Really, do I have to be a parent to know how a discussion of this kind goes?
Quote:
Likely. How else would you talk to your own children about sexuality?
Quote:
I was asking about specific parts of discussion, that you think will make your kid unwilling to act on sexual impulses, because you seemed pretty sure that he didn't and that he won't give them any course, as long as he is still "too young".
Communication and a discussion are not one in the same. It's an open dialogue. No he hasnt acted on any impulses.
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Acting on sexual impulses as kid doesn't necessary have to be traumatizing, especially when this thing doesn't happen against the kid's will.
Not initially. But neither is heroin. Both of which can become equally addicting. And both lead to consequences down the road with misguided use.
Quote:
I'm confident that he's made it to 6 years old without being genatalized, sexualized, sodomized, victimized, or molested.
Yeah, but how can you know this for sure?
He has never had the opportunity to. He has never been in a situation where that could have happened.
Quote:
It's not like he is going to drastically change after some sort of sexual contact, be it of any kind, granted that he wanted it to happen.
That's just your assumption. In many cases there are marked changes in children immediatley after sexulization.
Quote:
My parents were ready to cross their hearts and hope to die that I was "unsexualized", even though my first sexual sexual experience was with another girl, when I was 6 or 7.
The dynamics of sexuality complicate things with children at these ages. It's comparable to a teenagers first euphoric drug experience
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11765956 - 01/04/10 03:04 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Let's say the age gap is the same between 4 y/o and adult and post-pubescent and adult. Or do you believe there is no difference in the risk? This is assuming that the sex is 'consensual' all around.
If the sex is consensual all around, then how would/could damage result?
Do you even know what consent means?
Children can't give consent at this age. Get a handle on some basic psychology Poid.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11765989 - 01/04/10 03:08 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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consent - Merriam-Webster
Quote:
Main Entry: 1con·sent
Pronunciation: \k?n-?sent\
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French consentir, from Latin consentire, from com- + sentire to feel — more at sense
Date: 13th century
1 : to give assent or approval : agree <consent to being tested>
2 archaic : to be in concord in opinion or sentiment
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Children can't give consent at this age.
At what age? Are you seriously saying that children are incapable of approving or agreeing with something? 
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Get a handle on some basic psychology Poid.
I understand modern psychological theory on this issue well enough, but I think it's bullshit because I remember being a child clearly and I remember my thought processes while giving consent.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/22/10 05:32 PM)
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11766033 - 01/04/10 03:14 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Get a handle on some basic psychology Poid.
I understand modern psychological theory on this issue well enough, but I think it's bullshit because I remember being a child clearly and I remember my thought processes while giving consent.
Maybe you're in denial about your past.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11766057 - 01/04/10 03:18 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Or, maybe not.
What does that have to do with this discussion anyways?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11766071 - 01/04/10 03:20 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
Children can't give consent at this age. Get a handle on some basic psychology Poid.
Care to mention some of these sources?
What psychology book said (and there's also serious research to prove this claim) that a kid doesn't have consent at the age of 4?
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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When's this burning party gonna be organized?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11766248 - 01/04/10 03:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11766328 - 01/04/10 03:56 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I mean seriously, 13 pages and nary a charred violator of young children. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11766501 - 01/04/10 04:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's just wrong, I tell ya.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11766880 - 01/04/10 06:06 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have to admit though, that girl from the jailbait smiley is pretty seductive. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11766984 - 01/04/10 06:20 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, she sure knows how to throw a sexy  sign. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11768857 - 01/05/10 06:29 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm not going to even read that study because it is indefatigably obvious that not every teenager is unaware about the basic implications of sex
You can choose to remain ignorant. You're original comment is invalid and your belief is false. Were you not talking about an average teenager when you assumed that teenagers know about the basic implications of sex?
Quote:
I don't think age is as important as the individual; as has been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread, nothing is black-&-white.
That's not what I asked you, but let me rephrase it for you. Do you think there is more, less, or no difference in the risk of having negative consequences resulting from sex for a 4 y/o and 24 y/o or for a 14 y/o and 34 y/o? I'm talking about average people here picked at random from the same population with similar socioeconomic status.
Quote:
If the sex is consensual all around, then how would/could damage result?
Did you ever talk to a 4 y/o? You can't say, and expect hardly anyone to give you credibility, that a 4 y/o has anything resembling fully developed cognitive capacity. Do you believe it's not easy for an adult to manipulate a 4 y/o? Spare me about the special cases that represent 0.00001% of the population. Average people here.
Quote:
Do you even know what consent means?
You don't think sex should be an informed decision? Do you agree that a 4 y/o cannot make an informed decision about sex?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
I'm not going to even read that study because it is indefatigably obvious that not every teenager is unaware about the basic implications of sex
You can choose to remain ignorant. You're original comment is invalid and your belief is false. Were you not talking about an average teenager when you assumed that teenagers know about the basic implications of sex?
Quote:
Poid said:
Like a teenager doesn't understand the basic implications of having sex.
Did I mention anything about the "average teenager" here?
Quote:
A study published on Tuesday revealed large and disturbing gaps in American teenagers' knowledge about sex, gaps which may be tied to the prevalence of abstinence-only sex education in American schools.
These gaps maps may only exist in schools which teach abstinence-only sex deducation.
Quote:
Although most sexually active unmarried adults believe that pregnancy should be planned, about half do not use contraception regularly.
This has nothing to do with teenagers.
Quote:
Many people surveyed did not know how to use basic forms of contraception (63 percent said they knew little or nothing about birth control pills, and 30 percent said they had scant knowledge about condoms). The problem seems to be that as prevalent as forms of birth control seem to be in pop culture, people are never actually taught how to use them.
Were the people who participated in this survey adults, or teenagers?
Quote:
Myths about sex still proliferate, even among young adults. According to the study, 28 percent of men believe they will get extra protection from wearing two condoms at once (this is a practice that actually leads to condom breakage). At the same time, 18 percent of men also (incorrectly) believe that having sex standing up reduces the chance that they will get a female partner pregnant.
This is only talking about adults here; do you think these studies prove that, since a somewhat significant amount of adults are ignorant about sex, a somewhat significant amount of teenagers necessarily must be ignorant about sex?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
I don't think age is as important as the individual; as has been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread, nothing is black-&-white.
That's not what I asked you, but let me rephrase it for you. Do you think there is more, less, or no difference in the risk of having negative consequences resulting from sex for a 4 y/o and 24 y/o or for a 14 y/o and 34 y/o?
You obviously didn't understand my answer, and it is simple; I think it's extremely case dependent, and the ages of the individuals involved is somewhat irrelevant.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
I'm talking about average people here picked at random from the same population with similar socioeconomic status.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
If the sex is consensual all around, then how would/could damage result?
Did you ever talk to a 4 y/o? You can't say, and expect hardly anyone to give you credibility, that a 4 y/o has anything resembling fully developed cognitive capacity.
This doesn't prove that they don't have sex drives.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Do you believe it's not easy for an adult to manipulate a 4 y/o?
I'd say that it's probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Spare me about the special cases that represent 0.00001% of the population. Average people here.
What proof do you have that these "special cases" represent "0.00001% of the population."? What are "average people"?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Do you even know what consent means?
You don't think sex should be an informed decision?
Of course I think it should, that's what consent means. 
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Do you agree that a 4 y/o cannot make an informed decision about sex?
No I do not, because when I was five, a four year old girl came onto me and we fooled around a few times.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/22/10 05:34 PM)
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11769944 - 01/05/10 12:14 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Like a teenager doesn't understand the basic implications of having sex.
Did I mention anything about the "average teenager" here?
Humor me... what teenager were you making reference to when you said "a teenager"? Why would anyone assume anything other than a typical average teenager? You didn't make any reference to a specific teenager to make anyone think otherwise.
Quote:
This has nothing to do with teenagers... Were the people who participated in this survey adults, or teenagers?... This is only talking about adults here; do you think these studies prove that, since a somewhat significant amount of adults are ignorant about sex, a somewhat significant amount of teenagers necessarily must be ignorant about sex?
The study makes direct reference to being about teenagers. In fact, you even quoted where it says that. Your assumption that teenagers know the basic implications of sex is incorrect.
Quote:
You obviously didn't understand my answer, and it is simple; I think it's extremely case dependent, and the ages of the individuals involved is somewhat irrelevant.
I'm glad to see you've now changed your opinion from 'irrelevant' to 'somewhat irrelevant', but you're still dodging my question. I asked the question pertaining to average people that would be picked at random from the population. Obviously it will vary case-by-case, but that's not what I'm asking and I was clear on that. I'll clarify a second time. In general, on average and in your opinion, will it be more or less likely that a 4 y/o having sexual relations with an adult 20 years older than them will experience negative consequences (such as severe psychological problems later in life) as compared to a 14 y/o having sexual relations with an adult 20 years older than them? Or do you believe it makes no difference and that the likelyhood will be the same? And what about a 24 y/o having sex with someone 20 years older than them?
Once again, spare me the special cases. I'm asking in general.
Quote:
This doesn't prove that they don't have sex drives.
Where did I argue that 4 y/o's don't have sex drives? I'm stating that they do not have congnitive capacities that can be compared to a person that is 20 years or even 10 years older than them.
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Of course I think it should, that's what consent means.
Not according to the definition you just posted a few posts up, but I'm glad you agree that the decision should be informed.
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No I do not, because when I was five, a four year old girl came onto me and we fooled around a few times.
Are you saying you were informed of the possible consequences of your decision? You knew of potential for the transmission of sexual disease and potential for psychological problems resulting from the experience? I'll add that your experience doesn't apply to what I'm debating with you about. I'm challenging your views that it should be acceptable for adults to have sexual relations with children as young as 4 years old.
Quote:
I'd say that it's probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds.
You admit that it's 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate most four year olds. Do you still believe, having admitted that, that it should be acceptable for adults, who can easily manipulate children, to have sex with said children?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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VisionaryFlicker
Querulant
Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 3 hours, 17 minutes
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you see my viewpoint is as follows; I recently unignored poid, and he threatened me in a pm and then I repayed him with a threat myself, and then the cheeky bastard notified a mod about it and I got a warning.
What an uncool dude, he really ruins the atmosphere around here with his stupid reasoning and unwillingness to adept other points of view.
Poid is hereby re ignored and frowned upon by myself.
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........................................................................................................................
Manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing,
producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled
substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Thank's for airing your dirty laundry.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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VisionaryFlicker
Querulant
Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 3 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11770891 - 01/05/10 02:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah thanks for listening... I feel so much better now. I just felt... raped...
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........................................................................................................................
Manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing,
producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting,
inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled
substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Like a teenager doesn't understand the basic implications of having sex.
Did I mention anything about the "average teenager" here?
Humor me... what teenager were you making reference to when you said "a teenager"? Why would anyone assume anything other than a typical average teenager? You didn't make any reference to a specific teenager to make anyone think otherwise.
Most teenagers that I've met knew a good deal about sex; I guess I was making reference to those teenagers.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
This has nothing to do with teenagers... Were the people who participated in this survey adults, or teenagers?... This is only talking about adults here; do you think these studies prove that, since a somewhat significant amount of adults are ignorant about sex, a somewhat significant amount of teenagers necessarily must be ignorant about sex?
The study makes direct reference to being about teenagers. In fact, you even quoted where it says that. Your assumption that teenagers know the basic implications of sex is incorrect.
I quoted the portion of the study that mentioned teenagers, but the rest seems to be talking about only adults.
Even if most teenagers don't know much about sex, WTF is your point?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
You obviously didn't understand my answer, and it is simple; I think it's extremely case dependent, and the ages of the individuals involved is somewhat irrelevant.
I'm glad to see you've now changed your opinion from 'irrelevant' to 'somewhat irrelevant', but you're still dodging my question. I asked the question pertaining to average people that would be picked at random from the population.
Even if most "average people" are sexually immature, what is your point?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Obviously it will vary case-by-case, but that's not what I'm asking and I was clear on that. I'll clarify a second time. In general, on average and in your opinion, will it be more or less likely that a 4 y/o having sexual relations with an adult 20 years older than them will experience negative consequences (such as severe psychological problems later in life) as compared to a 14 y/o having sexual relations with an adult 20 years older than them? Or do you believe it makes no difference and that the likelyhood will be the same?
Do you have any evidence that the "likelyhood" isn't the same?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
And what about a 24 y/o having sex with someone 20 years older than them?
Once again, spare me the special cases. I'm asking in general.
In general, I seriously doubt that people of those ages who have sex with each other will suffer from negative consequences.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
This doesn't prove that they don't have sex drives.
Where did I argue that 4 y/o's don't have sex drives? I'm stating that they do not have congnitive capacities that can be compared to a person that is 20 years or even 10 years older than them.
You know that they have sex drives, yet you believe that they're too stupid or something to fulfill their own sexual desires?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Of course I think it should, that's what consent means.
Not according to the definition you just posted a few posts up, but I'm glad you agree that the decision should be informed.
I posted the dictionary definition, so I don't know WTF you're talking about.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
No I do not, because when I was five, a four year old girl came onto me and we fooled around a few times.
Are you saying you were informed of the possible consequences of your decision? You knew of potential for the transmission of sexual disease and potential for psychological problems resulting from the experience?
No, and I didn't incur either an STD or psychological problems as a result.
Why would I have incurred the latter if it's 100% natural?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
I'll add that your experience doesn't apply to what I'm debating with you about. I'm challenging your views that it should be acceptable for adults to have sexual relations with children as young as 4 years old.
If it is known that the child will not incur any psychological trauma as a result, what would be so unacceptable about it? How is a four year old having a consensual sexual experience with a five year old any different than a four year old having a consensual sexual experience with an adult?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
I'd say that it's probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds.
You admit that it's 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate most four year olds. Do you still believe, having admitted that, that it should be acceptable for adults, who can easily manipulate children, to have sex with said children?
I said that it is probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds in general, and I wasn't even just talking about manipulating them into having sex.
My answer to your question is 'yes'; do you think that, in every instance where an adult has sex with a child, that the child is always necessarily manipulated into doing so?
Quote:
VisionaryFlicker said:
...he threatened me in a pm and then I repayed him with a threat myself...
If I threatened you, I would have been banned; I wasn't banned, so it's obvious that I didn't threaten you, liar. 
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/05/10 06:14 PM)
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11774723 - 01/06/10 01:49 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I want to remind everyone that PMs and e-mail are considered confidential. Sharing their content in public, without prior consent from the other party, is a bannable offense.
Also harassment of other members will not be tolerated, and may result in an immediate ban depending on severity. If you have a problem with another member, please make your peace with them or simply keep your distance. If you cannot behave in a respectful manner, keep your words to yourself. All members are encouraged to PM a moderator or administrator with relevant information if they cannot resolve their conflict privately.
So PM me with anything else about this.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
Most teenagers that I've met knew a good deal about sex; I guess I was making reference to those teenagers.
Okay, so anecdotal evidence, which you didn't make clear and thus gave the impression of applying to the population as a whole.
Quote:
Even if most teenagers don't know much about sex, WTF is your point?
My point is you're wrong in assuming that teenagers know the basic implications of sex. Additionally, if teenagers don't know much about sex then how do you expect somebody 10 years younger than that to make an informed decision about sex?
Quote:
Do you have any evidence that the "likelyhood" isn't the same?
I was asking you a question and not stating a fact. Are you finally giving an answer now? Can I assume that you believe it is no more likely for psychological problems to result from sex between a 4 y/o and 24 y/o than sex between a 14 y/o and 34 y/o? In general terms, of course.
Quote:
In general, I seriously doubt that people of those ages who have sex with each other will suffer from negative consequences.
Great, thanks for the answer pertaining to the 24 and 44 year olds. Now what about the other two cases I mentioned? Do you think the 4 y/o having sex with the 24 y/o will be more likely to have negative consequence than the 24 y/o and 44 y/o?
Quote:
You know that they have sex drives, yet you believe that they're too stupid or something to fulfill their own sexual desires?
Now can you please point out where I said that 4 y/o's have sex drives? I'm arguing nothing of the sort.
Quote:
I posted the dictionary definition, so I don't know WTF you're talking about.
Well then I'd be happy to clear it up for you. Your dictionary definition mentions nothing about consent being informed. However, we both agree that consent to sexual activities should be an informed decision.
Quote:
No, and I didn't incur either an STD or psychological problems as a result.
Why would I have incurred the latter if it's 100% natural?
Once again, your anecdotal story is immaterial. I'm talking about an adult having sex with a 4 y/o, which you have previously said shouldn't be socially unacceptable so long as the sex is 'consensual'.
Quote:
If it is known that the child will not incur any psychological trauma as a result, what would be so unacceptable about it?
How would it be known that the child won't incur psychological trauma? Can you see into the future?
Quote:
How is a four year old having a consensual sexual experience with a five year old any different than a four year old having a consensual sexual experience with an adult?
Here's what I don't get about your stated opinion. You agree that sex between two people should be an informed decision, but you also agreed that a 4 y/o cannot make an informed decision, so I think your use of 'consensual' is out of context. That aside, there's a big difference and you've already agreed to it. You said it's 'pretty damn easy' [for an adult] to manipulate a 4 y/o. You see, between an adult and a child, the adult will always hold the power. They are superior both mentally and physically to the child and are very capable, as you have admitted, of manipulating the child. Now I ask, how could sex be 'consensual' if the child doesn't hold any power at all? No, will likely not even be an option.
Quote:
My answer to your question is 'yes'; do you think that, in every instance where an adult has sex with a child, that the child is always necessarily manipulated into doing so?
I believe that in most all instances a child will be manipulated. The adult wants the sex and they are quite aware of their power over the child. It's extremely likely they will use the power, even if subconciously.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Most teenagers that I've met knew a good deal about sex; I guess I was making reference to those teenagers.
Okay, so anecdotal evidence, which you didn't make clear and thus gave the impression of applying to the population as a whole.
I didn't give that impression, that's just what you inferred; IME, most teenagers know a good deal about sex.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Even if most teenagers don't know much about sex, WTF is your point?
My point is you're wrong in assuming that teenagers know the basic implications of sex. Additionally, if teenagers don't know much about sex then how do you expect somebody 10 years younger than that to make an informed decision about sex?
How do you expect people to learn about sex? Ever heard the saying, "Practice makes perfect."?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Do you have any evidence that the "likelyhood" isn't the same?
I was asking you a question and not stating a fact. Are you finally giving an answer now? Can I assume that you believe it is no more likely for psychological problems to result from sex between a 4 y/o and 24 y/o than sex between a 14 y/o and 34 y/o? In general terms, of course.
Yes you can.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
In general, I seriously doubt that people of those ages who have sex with each other will suffer from negative consequences.
Great, thanks for the answer pertaining to the 24 and 44 year olds. Now what about the other two cases I mentioned? Do you think the 4 y/o having sex with the 24 y/o will be more likely to have negative consequence than the 24 y/o and 44 y/o?
No.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
You know that they have sex drives, yet you believe that they're too stupid or something to fulfill their own sexual desires?
Now can you please point out where I said that 4 y/o's have sex drives? I'm arguing nothing of the sort.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Where did I argue that 4 y/o's don't have sex drives?
Of course four year olds have sex drives, there's absolutely no fucking argument here.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
I posted the dictionary definition, so I don't know WTF you're talking about.
Well then I'd be happy to clear it up for you. Your dictionary definition mentions nothing about consent being informed.
So, it's still consent; does everybody need to be a sexologist in order to enjoy the simple pleasures of sex?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
However, we both agree that consent to sexual activities should be an informed decision.
I don't think rape is ok.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
No, and I didn't incur either an STD or psychological problems as a result.
Why would I have incurred the latter if it's 100% natural?
Once again, your anecdotal story is immaterial. I'm talking about an adult having sex with a 4 y/o, which you have previously said shouldn't be socially unacceptable so long as the sex is 'consensual'.
Yeah.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
If it is known that the child will not incur any psychological trauma as a result, what would be so unacceptable about it?
How would it be known that the child won't incur psychological trauma? Can you see into the future?
I could ask the same to you.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
How is a four year old having a consensual sexual experience with a five year old any different than a four year old having a consensual sexual experience with an adult?
Here's what I don't get about your stated opinion. You agree that sex between two people should be an informed decision, but you also agreed that a 4 y/o cannot make an informed decision, so I think your use of 'consensual' is out of context.
I never said that every single four year old is necessarily incapable of making an informed decision about sex; how is my use of the term 'consensual' out of context here?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
That aside, there's a big difference and you've already agreed to it. You said it's 'pretty damn easy' [for an adult] to manipulate a 4 y/o.
So?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
You see, between an adult and a child, the adult will always hold the power.
This is simply untrue.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
They are superior both mentally and physically to the child and are very capable, as you have admitted, of manipulating the child.
Very capable, yes, but the child is also very capable of resisting an adult's manipulative suggestions.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Now I ask, how could sex be 'consensual' if the child doesn't hold any power at all? No, will likely not even be an option.
The child can be the aggressor.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
My answer to your question is 'yes'; do you think that, in every instance where an adult has sex with a child, that the child is always necessarily manipulated into doing so?
I believe that in most all instances a child will be manipulated.
So you don't think it's very likely at all that a child is the sexual aggressor?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
The adult wants the sex and they are quite aware of their power over the child. It's extremely likely they will use the power, even if subconciously.
What if the child wants the sex, too?
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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dopestone
tryptavision
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 748
Last seen: 4 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11777565 - 01/06/10 02:45 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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filibuster!
--------------------
in general, i'm not sure if i'm indecisive or not.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11781896 - 01/07/10 06:43 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
How do you expect people to learn about sex? Ever heard the saying, "Practice makes perfect."?
Yeah sure thing. Except, to most people, getting pregnant is kinda a big deal. Contracting HIV is a real downer, too.
Quote:
Of course four year olds have sex drives, there's absolutely no fucking argument here.
Did I argue one way or the other about 4 y/o's sex drives? No.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
However, we both agree that consent to sexual activities should be an informed decision.
I don't think rape is ok.
Rape? Do you equate uniformed consent with rape?
Quote:
How would it be known that the child won't incur psychological trauma? Can you see into the future?
I could ask the same to you.
I believe that it is more likely that a 4 y/o will suffer negative consequences because they cannot make an informed decision and it is very easy for them to be manipulated into doing something they don't really want to. If it's more likely that they will suffer from the interaction, it is only logical that such an act would be socially unacceptable. It takes no abilities to see into the future.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
You see, between an adult and a child, the adult will always hold the power.
This is simply untrue.
What is funny is the fact that you admit that it is 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate a 4 y/o and then go and say that an adult won't be the holder of the power. Even without you admitting that 4 y/o's can be manipulated, it's simply amazing that you think a 4 y/o could hold some sort of power over an adult in terms of mental and physical abilities.
Quote:
They are superior both mentally and physically to the child and are very capable, as you have admitted, of manipulating the child.
Very capable, yes, but the child is also very capable of resisting an adult's manipulative suggestions.
Do you even know what your position on this topic is? You just admitted a few posts ago that children are 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate and now you're saying they're 'very capable of resisting' an adult's manipulation. Which one is it? In case you don't know, I can tell you which opinion is wrong.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Now I ask, how could sex be 'consensual' if the child doesn't hold any power at all? No, will likely not even be an option.
The child can be the aggressor.
Are you kidding me? Can you provide me with one example where a child under the age of 12 has manipulated an adult into having sex with them?
Quote:
So you don't think it's very likely at all that a child is the sexual aggressor?
Very likely? You think it's very likely that the child will be the agressor? To answer you, no, I don't even think it's remotely likely that the child will be the agressor.
Quote:
What if the child wants the sex, too?
The child does not have enough of the information, nor are they cognitivly developed enough to make such a decision. In my mind, it is the same reason that 4 y/o's should not be dropping acid. Furthermore, a child holds no power in the act.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Successful troll is successful.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Fraggin said:
Children can't give consent at this age. Get a handle on some basic psychology Poid.
Care to mention some of these sources?
What psychology book said (and there's also serious research to prove this claim) that a kid doesn't have consent at the age of 4?
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Nope. But feel free to cite yours since I know you have a psychology book in your lap right now.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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When I first came here many years ago there was a major volcano in this forum around this subject. It felt like it was going to come to blows. I forget how many posts but a lot. This kind of reminds me of it. Hue and I were big time at odds. We really tore into each other. Later he became my best friend here and still is.
You all need to get a little more heated however. There hasn't been any talk of shotguns yet.
It's a groovy subject imo.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11782078 - 01/07/10 07:56 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
Nope. But feel free to cite yours since I know you have a psychology book in your lap right now.
Actually you made a pretty big claim, and since we're posting in a debate forum, it is your responsibility to prove its verity.
Saying random stuff like "I know you have a psychology book in your lap right now" isn't going to cut it. 
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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My responsibility? Citing anything isn't change your opinon on the subject, unless of course you're just beating me up over semantics.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11782158 - 01/07/10 08:16 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah that's how debate here is supposed to work. If you make a claim you are supposed to provide evidence for it if requested.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11782217 - 01/07/10 08:29 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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What about the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic or reasoning?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11782401 - 01/07/10 09:13 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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WTF are you even saying there? 
Listen, you're the one who said that kids don't have consent at the age of four, now good luck trying to prove it. It really isn't more complicated than this.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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They do not have the cognitive or emotional development to be able to make a rational, informed decision. Its really as simple as that.
This discussion should have ended a long time ago since to argue against this is to sanction moral depravity and to evade the facts of reality.
I just hope that people here who are 'debating' against the facts do not act upon the sick premises which they are defending.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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I thought you were going to leave this forum cause we were all parasite nihilists? I had my hopes up.
You sure love yer moral superiority.
Edited by Icelander (01/07/10 09:49 AM)
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11782620 - 01/07/10 10:00 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
They do not have the cognitive or emotional development to be able to make a rational, informed decision. Its really as simple as that.
/thread
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
They do not have the cognitive or emotional development to be able to make a rational, informed decision. Its really as simple as that.
Quote:
deCypher said:
You seem to forget that maturity is a separate quality from age.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,811
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782675 - 01/07/10 10:11 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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You are implying that maturity has to do with cognitive and emotional development, biological or otherwise?
Yea, maturity is different than age - but there is a strong correlation between the two (no matter how you define maturity).
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: DieCommie]
#11782690 - 01/07/10 10:13 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sure they might be correlated on the average but it's ridiculous to think that a young person is necessarily immature.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782706 - 01/07/10 10:15 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
You seem to forget that maturity is a separate quality from age.
I'm willing to bet that if you performed a study on the population to quantify level of maturity and then plotted the numerical scores against age of the respondent, there would be a positive correlation. There will always be outliers, but I wouldn't expect to have a meaningful debate on the morality of sex between an adult and a child with a 6 year old.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,811
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782727 - 01/07/10 10:18 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Sure they might be correlated on the average but it's ridiculous to think that a young person is necessarily immature.
Why? There is very strong correlation between age and what society defines as maturity. Have you ever been to an elementary school class room? Those kids are necessarily immature because they are kids.
Maybe once you hit adult hood and beyond such correlations dont hold. But for the youth they do hold to a high degree.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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My only point is that outliers exist.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,811
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782734 - 01/07/10 10:19 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
My only point is that outliers exist.
So what? Everybody knows that. Outliers exist in every sample. If you have to appeal to outliers to prove your point you have probably already lost the argument.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782740 - 01/07/10 10:21 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree, but if the correlation is strong, then isn't it natural that society defines adults having sex with children as immoral?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: DieCommie]
#11782742 - 01/07/10 10:21 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Some people in this thread apparently believe that there is no such thing as a mature young person; thus the existence of outliers is enough to refute their belief.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
I agree, but if the correlation is strong, then isn't it natural that society defines adults having sex with children as immoral?
For legal purposes I imagine we have to draw a hard line (below this age is illegal, above this age is legal), but as far as subjective morality goes this would depend upon the maturity, not the age, of the individual in question.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Aren't laws created out of the general social morals and beliefs? Don't we have laws that prohibit sex with minors because it is considered a socially unacceptable act?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782782 - 01/07/10 10:26 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
My only point is that outliers exist.
This imo has been the only point being made by you and me and others. Of course in the outrage of moral superiority by many here that has been completely overlooked, and no by accident.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Laws are also created out of pragmatism... it is much easier to set an arbitrary age line than it is to see if someone possess the proper maturity level on a case-by-case basis.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782798 - 01/07/10 10:28 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Word
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11782829 - 01/07/10 10:34 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Okay, I could agree with that, but would you say that, in general, society's views pertaining to the appropriate age to have sex or the appropriate age gap when teens are involved is scattered around the limit drawn by the law?
You and others have made your point that outliers exist. I never argued that fact. I'm curious, though, do you agree with there being laws applied to the population, as a whole, prohibitting adults having sex with children?
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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pothead_bob said:
Quote:
How do you expect people to learn about sex? Ever heard the saying, "Practice makes perfect."?
Yeah sure thing. Except, to most people, getting pregnant is kinda a big deal. Contracting HIV is a real downer, too.
Yeah, I've never met a teenager who doesn't know about pregnancy and/or HIV; those statistics seem like bullshit, and for all I know, whoever made them was extremely biased.
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pothead_bob said:
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Of course four year olds have sex drives, there's absolutely no fucking argument here.
Did I argue one way or the other about 4 y/o's sex drives? No.
Well the fact is that they do; do you think that they're too stupid or something to satisfy their sexual desires?
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pothead_bob said:
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pothead_bob said:
However, we both agree that consent to sexual activities should be an informed decision.
I don't think rape is ok.
Rape? Do you equate uniformed consent with rape?
Not at all.
From rape - Merriam-Webster:
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Main Entry: 2rape
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): raped; rap·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin rapere
Date: 14th century
1 a archaic : to seize and take away by force b : despoil
2 : to commit rape on
— rap·er noun
— rap·ist \ˈrā-pist\ noun
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pothead_bob said:
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How would it be known that the child won't incur psychological trauma? Can you see into the future?
I could ask the same to you.
I believe that it is more likely that a 4 y/o will suffer negative consequences because they cannot make an informed decision and it is very easy for them to be manipulated into doing something they don't really want to.
That is called rape, not every instance wherein an adult has sex with a child can be considered rape.
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pothead_bob said:
If it's more likely that they will suffer from the interaction, it is only logical that such an act would be socially unacceptable. It takes no abilities to see into the future.
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pothead_bob said:
You see, between an adult and a child, the adult will always hold the power.
This is simply untrue.
What is funny is the fact that you admit that it is 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate a 4 y/o and then go and say that an adult won't be the holder of the power.
I said it's probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds; this doesn't mean that every single four year old will necessarily automatically be manipulated by any adult who tries to manipulate them.
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pothead_bob said:
Even without you admitting that 4 y/o's can be manipulated, it's simply amazing that you think a 4 y/o could hold some sort of power over an adult in terms of mental and physical abilities.
If the adult uses his/her physical abilities, that is called rape; if the adult tricks the child into doing something that s/he didn't want to do in the first place, I think that could be considered rape as well.
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pothead_bob said:
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They are superior both mentally and physically to the child and are very capable, as you have admitted, of manipulating the child.
Very capable, yes, but the child is also very capable of resisting an adult's manipulative suggestions.
Do you even know what your position on this topic is? You just admitted a few posts ago that children are 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate and now you're saying they're 'very capable of resisting' an adult's manipulation. Which one is it? In case you don't know, I can tell you which opinion is wrong.
I said that it is probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds; how does this negate the fact that four year olds are potentially very capable of resisting an adult's manipulative suggestions?
Do children always listen when they're told what to do?
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pothead_bob said:
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pothead_bob said:
Now I ask, how could sex be 'consensual' if the child doesn't hold any power at all? No, will likely not even be an option.
The child can be the aggressor.
Are you kidding me? Can you provide me with one example where a child under the age of 12 has manipulated an adult into having sex with them?
Why do you think manipulation is always necessarily involved? Of course I cannot provide you with an example of this because this kind of shit, whenever it happens, happens behind closed doors; do you really think that no person under the age of 12 is attracted to adults?
Were you around during the Backstreet Boys and N'Sync days? Did you see how all those teenage girls were basically slobbering all over those guys' cocks?
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pothead_bob said:
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So you don't think it's very likely at all that a child is the sexual aggressor?
Very likely? You think it's very likely that the child will be the agressor? To answer you, no, I don't even think it's remotely likely that the child will be the agressor.
The girl that I had relations with when I was five was the aggressor; what does this tell you about child sexuality?
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pothead_bob said:
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What if the child wants the sex, too?
The child does not have enough of the information, nor are they cognitivly developed enough to make such a decision.
Source?
So, in your mind, children are able to make decisions in terms of food, candy, toys, etc., but as soon as it comes to sexuality, they're complete fucking retards?
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pothead_bob said:
In my mind, it is the same reason that 4 y/o's should not be dropping acid. Furthermore, a child holds no power in the act.
I don't think it would be too bad for a child to try a very small amount of LSD; what possible negative consequences would come of that? Obviously you don't give a child an adult dose of anything...
What if the adult was laying back and relaxing during the act, and left the child to do all of the work? Would you think that the child holds no power in that instance?
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deCypher said:
Laws are also created out of pragmatism... it is much easier to set an arbitrary age line than it is to see if someone possess the proper maturity level on a case-by-case basis.
Unfortunately.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/07/10 11:03 AM)
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Lets see now, who here actually thinks there can be an 'exception' where it would be healthy for a grown adult to have a sexual relationship with lets say a four yr old boy?
Anyone wanna try and make an argument supporting that?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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I'm curious, though, do you agree with there being laws applied to the population, as a whole, prohibitting adults having sex with children?
Depends on what you mean by children? At what age is a boy a child? At what age is a girl a child? Certainly not 16 in my mind.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Okay, I could agree with that, but would you say that, in general, society's views pertaining to the appropriate age to have sex or the appropriate age gap when teens are involved is scattered around the limit drawn by the law?
Assuming that laws tend to reflect society's desires, sure. Society's desires do tend to change over time though.
Quote:
pothead_bob said: I'm curious, though, do you agree with there being laws applied to the population, as a whole, prohibitting adults having sex with children?
I feel judgment on a case-by-case basis on the child's maturity would be more appropriate.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Lets see now, who here actually thinks there can be an 'exception' where it would be healthy for a grown adult to have a sexual relationship with lets say a four yr old boy?
I don't see why you would consider that an exception, considering that we all know for a fact that sex feels good, and that not all instances wherein an adult has sexual relations with a child can be considered rape.
Ever think that most of the damage comes from, not the initial act (in cases where the initial act was not a case of rape), but from adults' reaction to the said act?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11783110 - 01/07/10 11:19 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah, I've never met a teenager who doesn't know about pregnancy and/or HIV; those statistics seem like bullshit, and for all I know, whoever made them was extremely biased.
Well considering you met a very insignificant amount of teenagers in the US (what like 0.00000001%), who are likely all from the same geographical region of the US, I have trouble extrapolating your individual experience across the nation. I side with the statistician and I think any rational thinking person would do the same.
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Well the fact is that they do; do you think that they're too stupid or something to satisfy their sexual desires?
Not too stupid, too uniformed of possible consequences.
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pothead_bob said:
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
However, we both agree that consent to sexual activities should be an informed decision.
I don't think rape is ok.
Rape? Do you equate uniformed consent with rape?
Not at all.
Then why bring it up when I was asking whether or not you feel sexual decisions should be informed?
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I believe that it is more likely that a 4 y/o will suffer negative consequences because they cannot make an informed decision and it is very easy for them to be manipulated into doing something they don't really want to.
That is called rape, not every instance wherein an adult has sex with a child can be considered rape.
Their inability to make an informed decision is not called rape according to your definition. Being manipulated into saying yes to sex is a far cry away from being bound and/or beaten into submission so that your offender can fuck you against your will.
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I said it's probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds; this doesn't mean that every single four year old will necessarily automatically be manipulated by any adult who tries to manipulate them.
You said it should not be socially unacceptable for an adult to have sex with a 4 y/o. Do societal morals rotate around the majority or rare cases, which you keep bringing up?
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If the adult uses his/her physical abilities, that is called rape; if the adult tricks the child into doing something that s/he didn't want to do in the first place, I think that could be considered rape as well.
So if you sweet talk a girl at the bar into coming back to your place by lying about yourself to build yourself up and then she chooses to have sex with you based on those lies, should you be thrown in jail for raping her when she finds out you were full of shit?
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how does this negate the fact that four year olds are potentially very capable of resisting an adult's manipulative suggestions?
because they're 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate. In general, it would be easier to manipulate a child than an adult. Not always. As I already made clear, I'm not interested in the special cases because we're talking about what is socially unacceptable. But in general, it's easier.
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Why do you think manipulation is always necessarily involved?
I don't think manipulation is the only problem. As I made clear, children are incapable of making informed decisions about sex. That aside, children are easier to manipulate, so it's a bigger problem when we're talking about children having sex as compared to adults.
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Of course I cannot provide you with an example of this because this kind of shit, whenever it happens, happens behind closed doors; do you really think that no person under the age of 12 is attracted to adults?
Yeah, cuz I never heard of child molestation cases on the News. You would think of the thousands of recorded events that at least one would have involved the child taking advantage of the adult according to your hypothesis. At any rate, even if it did happen, it most certainly is not the norm.
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The girl that I had relations with when I was five was the aggressor; what does this tell you about child sexuality?
It tells me that you're not listening to me. Your anecdotal story is immaterial. I'm talking about adults and children here.
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The child does not have enough of the information, nor are they cognitivly developed enough to make such a decision.
Source?
So, in your mind, children are able to know what they want in terms of food, candy, toys, etc., but as soon as it comes to sexuality, they're complete fucking retards?
You need a source to know that children are not cognitively developed compared to adults? You can't see the differences in the potential negative side effects of eating a lollipop and getting fingered?
Your arguments are going downhill.
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What if the adult was laying back and relaxing during the act, and left the child to do all of the work? Would you think that the child holds no power in this instance?
And when the child gets bored and doesn't finish the adult? You think the adult won't use their powers of manipulation which they know they have to get what they want?
Once again, spare me the special cases. It's extremely doubtful that your scenario would comprise anything close the majority of cases.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Yeah, I've never met a teenager who doesn't know about pregnancy and/or HIV; those statistics seem like bullshit, and for all I know, whoever made them was extremely biased.
Well considering you met a very insignificant amount of teenagers in the US (what like 0.00000001%), who are likely all from the same geographical region of the US, I have trouble extrapolating your individual experience across the nation. I side with the statistician and I think any rational thinking person would do the same.
And what is the percentage of American teenagers who were polled? How much more than 0.00000001% was it?
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pothead_bob said:
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Well the fact is that they do; do you think that they're too stupid or something to satisfy their sexual desires?
Not too stupid, too uniformed of possible consequences.
They're most likely uninformed about the possible consequences of everything they do, why is sex any different?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
However, we both agree that consent to sexual activities should be an informed decision.
I don't think rape is ok.
Rape? Do you equate uniformed consent with rape?
Not at all.
Then why bring it up when I was asking whether or not you feel sexual decisions should be informed?
So that you know that I don't think it (having sex while being uninformed) matters too much, but what really does matter is that rape is not OK.
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pothead_bob said:
Quote:
I believe that it is more likely that a 4 y/o will suffer negative consequences because they cannot make an informed decision and it is very easy for them to be manipulated into doing something they don't really want to.
That is called rape, not every instance wherein an adult has sex with a child can be considered rape.
Their inability to make an informed decision is not called rape according to your definition.
Yeah, because it isn't rape by the dictionary definition.
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pothead_bob said:
Being manipulated into saying yes to sex is a far cry away from being bound and/or beaten into submission so that your offender can fuck you against your will.
Yeah, so?
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pothead_bob said:
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I said it's probably pretty damn easy to manipulate most four year olds; this doesn't mean that every single four year old will necessarily automatically be manipulated by any adult who tries to manipulate them.
You said it should not be socially unacceptable for an adult to have sex with a 4 y/o. Do societal morals rotate around the majority or rare cases, which you keep bringing up?
How do you know that it is rare if not every single case wherein an adult has sexual relations with a child is documented? The answer is you don't know.
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pothead_bob said:
Quote:
If the adult uses his/her physical abilities, that is called rape; if the adult tricks the child into doing something that s/he didn't want to do in the first place, I think that could be considered rape as well.
So if you sweet talk a girl at the bar into coming back to your place by lying about yourself to build yourself up and then she chooses to have sex with you based on those lies, should you be thrown in jail for raping her when she finds out you were full of shit?
No, that's why I said "I think" that that could be considered rape, but I guess I just realized that it isn't.
In this hypothetical case, she was playing along with my sweet talk, so if she regretted her decision later on, then that's absolutely none of my concern.
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pothead_bob said:
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how does this negate the fact that four year olds are potentially very capable of resisting an adult's manipulative suggestions?
because they're 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate. In general, it would be easier to manipulate a child than an adult. Not always. As I already made clear, I'm not interested in the special cases because we're talking about what is socially unacceptable. But in general, it's easier.
Children don't always listen to their parents, what makes you think that it'll be more likely that they'll listen to anyone else?
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pothead_bob said:
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Why do you think manipulation is always necessarily involved?
I don't think manipulation is the only problem. As I made clear, children are incapable of making informed decisions about sex.
So only sexologists should be allowed to have sex?
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pothead_bob said:
That aside, children are easier to manipulate, so it's a bigger problem when we're talking about children having sex as compared to adults.
Why, just because they are generally easier to manipulate?
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pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Of course I cannot provide you with an example of this because this kind of shit, whenever it happens, happens behind closed doors; do you really think that no person under the age of 12 is attracted to adults?
Yeah, cuz I never heard of child molestation cases on the News.
News does not = everything that goes on this this world, dude, and most news broadcasters have an extremely biased agenda.
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pothead_bob said:
You would think of the thousands of recorded events that at least one would have involved the child taking advantage of the adult according to your hypothesis. At any rate, even if it did happen, it most certainly is not the norm.
Obviously most of the recorded cases are of adults who raped the child and got caught.
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pothead_bob said:
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The girl that I had relations with when I was five was the aggressor; what does this tell you about child sexuality?
It tells me that you're not listening to me. Your anecdotal story is immaterial. I'm talking about adults and children here.
I'm talking about child sexuality in general. And yes, for the last time, it exists.
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pothead_bob said:
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The child does not have enough of the information, nor are they cognitivly developed enough to make such a decision.
Source?
So, in your mind, children are able to know what they want in terms of food, candy, toys, etc., but as soon as it comes to sexuality, they're complete fucking retards?
You need a source to know that children are not cognitively developed compared to adults? You can't see the differences in the potential negative side effects of eating a lollipop and getting fingered?
I can see the difference, I just want to see how you figure the difference is.
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pothead_bob said:
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What if the adult was laying back and relaxing during the act, and left the child to do all of the work? Would you think that the child holds no power in this instance?
And when the child gets bored and doesn't finish the adult? You think the adult won't use their powers of manipulation which they know they have to get what they want?
You think the adult necessarily will? What if they both get bored? 
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pothead_bob said:
Once again, spare me the special cases. It's extremely doubtful that your scenario would comprise anything close the majority of cases.
The majority of people are fucking retarded anyways.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/07/10 05:08 PM)
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11783255 - 01/07/10 11:38 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Some people in this thread apparently believe that there is no such thing as a mature young person; thus the existence of outliers is enough to refute their belief.
i was a "adult" in my young age.
but not every one is so, so it still doesn't justify a adult child sex relationship.
mostly because they lack the experience of life to make such a decision.
this also depends on the area, i am referring to most north American children.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Why does a sexual relationship require justification?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11783965 - 01/07/10 01:26 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
And what is the percentage of American teenagers who were polled? How much more than 0.00000001% was it?
It was a survey of 1,800 people. Do you know more than 1,800 people?
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They're most likely uninformed about the possible consequences of everything they do, why is sex any different?
So you have now admitted that:
1) children are probably 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate, which means that an adult would probably hold the power in an adult-child sexual relationship,
2) children are uninformed about sexual consequences, and
3) there is a difference between the consequences of sex and other things children would want, such as toys and candy.
But wait, you also have stated that sex should be an informed decision here:
Quote:
You don't think sex should be an informed decision?
Of course I think it should, that's what consent means.
You said you think that sex should be an informed decision but you said that children are most likely uniformed about everything they do. What gives here?
Do you still think that the likelihood of negative consequences occurring for the two scenarios:
a) a 4 y/o having sex with a 24 y/o, or
b) a 24 y/o having sex with a 44 y/o
is the same?
Do you still believe it should be socially acceptable for an adult to have sex with a child?
Can you see why it is not socially acceptable?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
And what is the percentage of American teenagers who were polled? How much more than 0.00000001% was it?
It was a survey of 1,800 people. Do you know more than 1,800 people?
I actually probably do, but I definitely haven't talked to all of them about sex.
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pothead_bob said:
Quote:
They're most likely uninformed about the possible consequences of everything they do, why is sex any different?
So you have now admitted that:
1) children are probably 'pretty damn easy' to manipulate, which means that an adult would probably hold the power in an adult-child sexual relationship...
This is what I've been saying from the beginning, WTF do you mean "now" I have admitted it?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
2) children are uninformed about sexual consequences, and
3) there is a difference between the consequences of sex and other things children would want, such as toys and candy.
But wait, you also have stated that sex should be an informed decision here:
Quote:
You don't think sex should be an informed decision?
Of course I think it should, that's what consent means.
You said you think that sex should be an informed decision but you said that children are most likely uniformed about everything they do. What gives here?
The phrase "informed decision" is extremely ambiguous, and you still haven't clarified precisely what you mean by it; doesn't every case of a sexual incident, where rape was not involved, include individuals who were informed to at least some extent about their decision?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Do you still think that the likelihood of negative consequences occurring for the two scenarios:
a) a 4 y/o having sex with a 24 y/o, or
b) a 24 y/o having sex with a 44 y/o
is the same?
Probably not, but I think that a lot of trauma can be blamed on the way most parents/adults react to their experience.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Do you still believe it should be socially acceptable for an adult to have sex with a child?
I don't care about what other people believe, so I don't really care about what is or "should be" socially acceptable; if the majority of people don't want it to be socially acceptable, then I have absolutely no problem with/concern about that.
I dunno, I'm just not the type of person that lets other people think for me.
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pothead_bob said:
Can you see why it is not socially acceptable?
There are several reasons which are responsible for it not being socially acceptable by most people in this day in age, and yes, I can see a few of them.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/08/10 02:21 PM)
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11784450 - 01/07/10 02:40 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is what I've been saying from the beginning, WTF do you mean "now" I have admitted it?
By 'now', I mean throughout our discussion up to 'now'.
Quote:
The phrase "informed decision" is extremely ambiguous, and you still haven't clarified precisely what you mean by it; doesn't every case of a sexual incident, where rape was not involved, include individuals who were informed to at least some exent about their decision?
I can't see how after all this discussion it would be extremely ambiguous. It means the person making the decision is informed of the possible consequences of the decision and optimally also the risk of such consequences.
To answer your question, no, not every case of a sexual incident is an informed decision. For example, a 4 y/o 'deciding' to have sex with a 24 y/o is not an informed decision. The child is likely completely unaware of any possible consequences of sex.
Quote:
Probably not, but I think that a lot of trauma can be blamed on the way most parents/adults react to their experience.
I agree, but I also think that a well informed individual (pertaining to the event) will be less likely to react in a traumatic way.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
The phrase "informed decision" is extremely ambiguous, and you still haven't clarified precisely what you mean by it; doesn't every case of a sexual incident, where rape was not involved, include individuals who were informed to at least some exent about their decision?
I can't see how after all this discussion it would be extremely ambiguous.
It's ambiguous because, even after all this discussion, you haven't clarified precisely what you mean.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
It means the person making the decision is informed of the possible consequences of the decision and optimally also the risk of such consequences.
So this is the way you are using that phrase?
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
To answer your question, no, not every case of a sexual incident is an informed decision. For example, a 4 y/o 'deciding' to have sex with a 24 y/o is not an informed decision. The child is likely completely unaware of any possible consequences of sex.
But they are aware that they are getting naked, and having a sexual experience; obviously since they are aware of these things, their participation in the sex act is not a completely uninformed one.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Probably not, but I think that a lot of trauma can be blamed on the way most parents/adults react to their experience.
I agree, but I also think that a well informed individual (pertaining to the event) will be less likely to react in a traumatic way.
That's probably true for everything.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/07/10 05:25 PM)
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ello619
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 60
Last seen: 3 months, 22 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11786913 - 01/07/10 09:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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they deserve death!!
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: ello619]
#11786918 - 01/07/10 09:39 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Regardless of whether or not we deserve it, we all will experience death someday.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: ello619]
#11786991 - 01/07/10 09:54 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ello619 said:
they deserve death!!
Please explain.
Again I will say that humans are able to have an orgasm at any age so why do pedos deserve to die?
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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lines
Stranger
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 1,261
Loc: USA
Last seen: 29 days, 23 hours
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So many questions
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: ello619]
#11787971 - 01/08/10 04:56 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ello619 said:
they deserve death!!
You deserve an award for useless, stupid posts.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11788068 - 01/08/10 05:49 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So this is the way you are using that phrase?
Yes.
Quote:
But they are aware that they are getting naked, and having a sexual experience; obviously since they are aware of these things, their participation in the sex act is not a completely uninformed one.
Being aware is not the same as being informed. At least not according to the way I have been using the term, which I clarified above for you.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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rizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus
Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 745
Loc: North-east USm'f'nA
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Pedophiles destroy the lives of those they touch....they should be cut into lil pieces while still alive...make it take weeks...
--------------------
Please check out the Classified for us.
Free Prints,Contests, Prizes... Go to www.Shroomotopia.com
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: rizingfire]
#11788113 - 01/08/10 06:04 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think prison is suitable enough.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: rizingfire]
#11788126 - 01/08/10 06:11 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
rizingfire said:
Pedophiles destroy the lives of those they touch....they should be cut into lil pieces while still alive...make it take weeks...
People who hate (see above) destroy life for everyone. They should gently be put to sleep so the rest of humanity can progress.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: rizingfire]
#11788546 - 01/08/10 08:37 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
rizingfire said:
Pedophiles destroy the lives of those they touch....they should be cut into lil pieces while still alive...make it take weeks...
Aren't you Christian? Whatever happened to forgiveness?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11788552 - 01/08/10 08:38 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: rizingfire]
#11788849 - 01/08/10 09:54 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
rizingfire said:
Pedophiles destroy the lives of those they touch....they should be cut into lil pieces while still alive...make it take weeks...
I think poid brought up a good point.
Is it necessarily the act that is destructive or societies view of said act?
--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Quote:
awesomebastard said:
Quote:
rizingfire said:
Pedophiles destroy the lives of those they touch....they should be cut into lil pieces while still alive...make it take weeks...
I think poid brought up a good point.
Is it necessarily the act that is destructive or societies view of said act?
The act and certainly sometimes the way societies decide to go about dealing with the victims afterwards. A proper rational reason needs to be given as to why the adult was wrong and abused power so that the victim does not feel guilt by association.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
But they are aware that they are getting naked, and having a sexual experience; obviously since they are aware of these things, their participation in the sex act is not a completely uninformed one.
Being aware is not the same as being informed. At least not according to the way I have been using the term, which I clarified above for you.
Ok, well I already told you that I think it's fucking bullshit that only professional sexoligists should be "allowed" to have sex.
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
Quote:
rizingfire said:
Pedophiles destroy the lives of those they touch....they should be cut into lil pieces while still alive...make it take weeks...
I think poid brought up a good point.
Is it necessarily the act that is destructive or societies view of said act?
The act and certainly sometimes the way societies decide to go about dealing with the victims afterwards.
Always, not sometimes; don't they always react in the same or at least extremely similar manner?
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
A proper rational reason needs to be given as to why the adult was wrong and abused power so that the victim does not feel guilt by association.
In cases of rape, sure.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11789716 - 01/08/10 12:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ok, well I already told you that I think it's fucking bullshit that only professional sexoligists should be "allowed" to have sex.
Where's the law that says only sexologists can have sex? Where did I ever say that? Or are you just trying to twist what I'm saying?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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It seems to me that you're saying that only people who are extremely informed about sex should be "allowed" to have it.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/09/10 03:27 PM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11790402 - 01/08/10 02:25 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
...experience death someday.
Experience comes to a halt when something dies, so it does not make sense to say that something can experience it.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11790410 - 01/08/10 02:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I meant the act of dying, but at any rate you don't definitively know that experience comes to halt when you die.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11790433 - 01/08/10 02:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Damn, you're right...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11791142 - 01/08/10 04:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Why does a sexual relationship require justification?
justification in the eyes of society, but not in the actual relationship.
there really isn't a justification for a adult to manipulate a child into a sexual relationship.
it's really not acceptable, an adult should be in a relationship with an experienced individual (it's not my rule, North America measures age instead of maturity).
places, mostly third world countries it's morally acceptable for an adult to marry a 12yr old and even have intercourse.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
elementswrath said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Why does a sexual relationship require justification?
who says it's required?
there really isn't a justification for a adult to manipulate a child into a sexual relationship.
There could potentially be many; are you speaking of moral justification?
Quote:
elementswrath said:
it's really not acceptable, an adult should be in a relationship with an experienced individual (it's not my rule, North America measures age instead of maturity).
So an adult shouldn't be with an inexperienced individual no matter what, even if that individual happens to be older?
Quote:
elementswrath said:
places, mostly third world countries it's morally acceptable for an adult to marry a 12yr old and even have intercourse.
That's how humanity has been living until relatively recently.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11791244 - 01/08/10 04:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
There could potentially be many; are you speaking of moral justification?
what other kind of justifications are there?
Quote:
So an adult shouldn't be with an inexperienced individual no matter what, even if that individual happens to be older?
like i said, north America measures age as experience.
so a inexperienced person would be younger than the adult.(jee, it doesn't seem to make sense and i agree with you on that maturity varies with environment)
Quote:
That's how humanity has been living until relatively recently
yes. in feudal japan for example people married at about 12 with adults older.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
elementswrath said:
Quote:
There could potentially be many; are you speaking of moral justification?
what other kind of justifications are there?
Justification is pretty much explanation--not everyone explains their actions merely via the use of a moral code.
Quote:
elementswrath said:
Quote:
So an adult shouldn't be with an inexperienced individual no matter what, even if that individual happens to be older?
like i said, north America measures age as experience.
so a inexperienced person would be younger than the adult.(jee, it doesn't seem to make sense and i agree with you on that maturity varies with environment)
So it's not possible for a 14 year old to be more sexually experienced than, say, a 40 year old virgin?
Quote:
elementswrath said:
Quote:
That's how humanity has been living until relatively recently
yes. in feudal japan for example people married at about 12 with adults older.
They still do this in some parts of Mexico. 
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11791358 - 01/08/10 04:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So it's not possible for a 14 year old to be more sexually experienced than, say, a 40 year old virgin?
maybe you didn't understand my post, this kinda thing you are saying is what i agree with.
it's totally possible.
Quote:
Justification is pretty much explanation--not everyone explains their actions merely via the use of a moral code.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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From justify - Merriam-Webster:
Quote:
Main Entry: jus·ti·fy
Pronunciation: \ˈjəs-tə-ˌfī\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): jus·ti·fied; jus·ti·fy·ing
Etymology: Middle English justifien, from Anglo-French or Late Latin; Anglo-French justifier, from Late Latin justificare, from Latin justus
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 a : to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable b (1) : to show to have had a sufficient legal reason (2) : to qualify (oneself) as a surety by taking oath to the ownership of sufficient property
2 a archaic : to administer justice to b archaic : absolve c : to judge, regard, or treat as righteous and worthy of salvation
3 a : to space (as lines of text) so that the lines come out even at the margin b : to make even by justifying <justified margins>
intransitive verb
1 a : to show a sufficient lawful reason for an act done b : to qualify as bail or surety
2 : to justify lines of text
synonyms see maintain
— jus·ti·fi·er \-ˌfī(-ə)r\ noun
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11791565 - 01/08/10 05:09 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
From justify - Merriam-Webster:
Quote:
Main Entry: jus·ti·fy
Pronunciation: \ˈjəs-tə-ˌfī\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): jus·ti·fied; jus·ti·fy·ing
Etymology: Middle English justifien, from Anglo-French or Late Latin; Anglo-French justifier, from Late Latin justificare, from Latin justus
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 a : to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable b (1) : to show to have had a sufficient legal reason (2) : to qualify (oneself) as a surety by taking oath to the ownership of sufficient property
2 a archaic : to administer justice to b archaic : absolve c : to judge, regard, or treat as righteous and worthy of salvation
3 a : to space (as lines of text) so that the lines come out even at the margin b : to make even by justifying <justified margins>
intransitive verb
1 a : to show a sufficient lawful reason for an act done b : to qualify as bail or surety
2 : to justify lines of text
synonyms see maintain
— jus·ti·fi·er \-ˌfī(-ə)r\ noun
Quote:
Justification is pretty much explanation--not everyone explains their actions merely via the use of a moral code.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Reasonable
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/just
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/right
all three of these words you displayed have to do with morality.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
elementswrath said:
all three of these words you displayed have to do with morality.
Not the term 'reasonable'--obviously somebody who is sexually attracted to children and decides to have sex with one finds it reasonable (to at least some extent) to do so.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (01/08/10 05:42 PM)
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,764
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11792151 - 01/08/10 06:40 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
elementswrath said:
all three of these words you displayed have to do with morality.
Not the term 'reasonable'--obviously somebody who is sexually attracted to children and decides to have sex with one finds it reasonable (to at least some extent) to do so.
Treasonable is more like it.
I say you duel the father of the child at 20 paces.
If you are man enough that is.
Obviously.
I am kidding!
Butt really unless there is grass on the infield should you really be playing ball?
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Don't worry be happy.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Butt really unless there is grass on the infield should you really be playing ball?
To each their own, dude! 
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,764
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11792187 - 01/08/10 06:46 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Butt really unless there is grass on the infield should you really be playing ball?
To each their own, dude!
Well i like it with hair if you like it bald better check their ID Dude.
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Don't worry be happy.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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I personally prefer it bald on women, I just think it looks hotter.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,764
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11792279 - 01/08/10 06:59 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
I personally prefer it bald on women, I just think it looks hotter.
The last time I said "no offense, but (personally....)" I got banned for a couple of weeks so personally I can't say
I can say let's just stick to the debate and not your personal perverted perference for shaved "I'm Your Daddy" puss
I'm kidding!
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Don't worry be happy.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,381
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11792325 - 01/08/10 07:07 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
I personally prefer it bald on women, I just think it looks hotter.
Hairless is obviously cooler. Lack of thermal blanketing and all...
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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That was a good one, d00d. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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dopestone
tryptavision
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 748
Last seen: 4 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11793062 - 01/08/10 09:02 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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this has turned into the "i keep posting here so i must be a pedobear" thread!
/thread!
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in general, i'm not sure if i'm indecisive or not.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: dopestone]
#11793232 - 01/08/10 09:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not many people can muster having a mature conversation about things that are socially taboo...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11806725 - 01/11/10 07:22 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Not many people can muster having a mature conversation about things that are socially taboo fucking children...
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11806752 - 01/11/10 07:30 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Which is bad in itself, without any further reflection on the specifics of the situation. 
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11807871 - 01/11/10 11:54 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Not many people can muster having a mature conversation about things that are socially taboo fucking children...
You just proved my point...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11808143 - 01/11/10 12:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I didn't prove shit
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11808151 - 01/11/10 12:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm curious which people that have posted in this thread have children. It would be interesting to see how that correlates with their opinion on whether or not it should be allowable for adults to have sex with children.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
I didn't prove shit
I can't believe that you have children, you behave like one yourself on these boards.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
I'm curious which people that have posted in this thread have children. It would be interesting to see how that correlates with their opinion on whether or not it should be allowable for adults to have sex with children.
Why would it be interesting?
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11808186 - 01/11/10 12:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Personalism. Read the Rules Child molester.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
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Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11808187 - 01/11/10 12:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why would it be interesting?
To see if whether or not you have children can potentially change your perspective on the issue.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11808202 - 01/11/10 12:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
Personalism. Read the Rules Child molseter.
That's not a personalism; I didn't call you anything, I was just making a remark about your behavior on these boards.
If I called you a child, that would be something different, although I still don't think that that could be construed as a personalism because it's not necessarily an insult.
Anyways, you called me a child molester, and I definitely think that that could be construed as a personalism.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
Why would it be interesting?
To see if whether or not you have children can potentially change your perspective on the issue.
Do you think that this would be likely or something? If I had kids I would not mind if they played doctor with other kids because that's just what kids naturally do.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11808219 - 01/11/10 12:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you have two kids? Do you have one kid?
If not, then it is impossible for you to know what you would think 'if' you had kids.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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It's impossible for me to know what to do with something that I don't have?
If I had a car, then I would drive it.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11808250 - 01/11/10 12:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
I didn't prove shit
That's true.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11808251 - 01/11/10 12:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is impossible for a man to step into the same river twice. Ever hear that saying? Everything is in constant change and even the most minute events have an impact on something. You don't know if your thought process would change after you had children. Just like you don't know you would drive a car if you had one. You assume that you would.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
|
Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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And you assume that he will change his opinion in the moment he'll have kids.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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No. However, if 20 ppl posted on this thread, 10 ppl who had kids thought adults having sex with children should be illegal and socially unacceptable, and 10 ppl who didn't have kids thought there was no problem with the act, it would be likely, statistically speaking, that he would change his mind.
However, I do find it humorous that he was comparing having children with having a car.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
|
Fraggin
Multi-Faceted
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8,707
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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likely.
Judging from your response, I'll assume you don't have children either.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,764
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! *DELETED* [Re: pothead_bob]
#11808325 - 01/11/10 12:52 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LunarEclipseReason for deletion: runned over
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Don't worry be happy.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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If anything, having children myself would probably taint my rational philosophical beliefs on this subject with emotional bias.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Fraggin]
#11808496 - 01/11/10 01:14 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fraggin said:
likely.
Judging from your response, I'll assume you don't have children either.
I even said that earlier in the thread; however, when I will have kids, I will make sure that, if and when they decide to have sex, they will know what they'll be doing and most importantly why, and then the decision would be theirs. Even if they would choose to go along with something that will turn wrong, I will have the decency to let them learn from their own mistakes while at the same time offer them any support they need.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
It is impossible for a man to step into the same river twice. Ever hear that saying?
Nope.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Everything is in constant change and even the most minute events have an impact on something. You don't know if your thought process would change after you had children. Just like you don't know you would drive a car if you had one. You assume that you would.
I know that I don't know, but I think it's highly likely that if I had children, I would allow them to play doctor with other children because prohibiting them from doing so is not at all part of my morality; in fact, I fucking hate that mentality with all of my heart.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11809835 - 01/11/10 04:41 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
It is impossible for a man to step into the same river twice. Ever hear that saying?
Nope.
Now you have. It's an interesting one, isn't it?
Quote:
I know that I don't know, but I think it's highly likely that if I had children, I would allow them to play doctor with other children because prohibiting them from doing so is not at all part of my morality; in fact, I fucking hate that mentality with all of my heart.
What do you think your mentality would be towards one of your (hypothetical) children having sex with a 25 y/o?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
Edited by pothead_bob (01/11/10 04:41 PM)
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11809945 - 01/11/10 04:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I know that I don't know, but I think it's highly likely that if I had children, I would allow them to play doctor with other children because prohibiting them from doing so is not at all part of my morality; in fact, I fucking hate that mentality with all of my heart.
yeah, just make sure they learn how to drive a car before they crash
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
It is impossible for a man to step into the same river twice. Ever hear that saying?
Nope.
Now you have. It's an interesting one, isn't it?
Nope.
Quote:
pothead_bob said:
Quote:
I know that I don't know, but I think it's highly likely that if I had children, I would allow them to play doctor with other children because prohibiting them from doing so is not at all part of my morality; in fact, I fucking hate that mentality with all of my heart.
What do you think your mentality would be towards one of your (hypothetical) children having sex with a 25 y/o?
Depends on who did it, and why they did it; if it was a loving encounter with someone who I accept, then I don't see what the problem would be.
I don't plan on ever having kids, though. 
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11813260 - 01/12/10 05:25 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't plan on ever having kids, though.
neither did i
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
|
elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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your doing yourself and the world a favor not having kids.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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I did have kids (actually 1 kid). And why am I dis-servicing the world by doing so?
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
|
elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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1 open job spot, tonnes and tonnes of food and water saved, 1 less fraction of a carbon footprint, -1-10 kids(doing this cycle too), not to mention personal freedom of parents, less stress ect.
in general no one should be having kids till the population runs down a bit, i am doing my part.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Who r u saving the job for? The food and water? Carbon footprint? Fuck the climate.
Less personal freedom and stress, I'll give u, but life's not always a picnic and it's not always fair. Accept the good with the bad.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
|
elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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right, but why add more to the wagon?
do you really think the world needs another human being?
there is billions of them, why not adopt? save a kid not make one.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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As I already said, I didn't adopt because my child was unplanned, as many pregnancies are. I wouldn't be opposed to adopting and my wife and I have spoken about it in the past, but you should be happy to know that we are currently thinking we'll settle on just 1 child.
IMO, the world doesn't need anything. It's a rock floating in space which, interestingly enough, has an ecosystem. We're simply a surface infestation which will, at some point in time, be eliminated from mother earth.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Quote:
elementswrath said:
there is billions of them, why not adopt?
That's like saying why have pets instead of feeding starving kids.
The answer is, probably because everyone is free to do whatever the fuck they want, and not what someone else thinks it's "better".
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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IMO, the world doesn't need anything. It's a rock floating in space which, interestingly enough, has an ecosystem. We're simply a surface infestation which will, at some point in time, be eliminated from mother earth.
One of my hardest lessons.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
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Quote:
elementswrath said:
in general no one should be having kids till the population runs down a bit, i am doing my part.
Quote:
elementswrath said:
do you really think the world needs another human being?
there is billions of them, why not adopt? save a kid not make one.
How will adopting a kid help the population run down?
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
No. However, if 20 ppl posted on this thread, 10 ppl who had kids thought adults having sex with children should be illegal and socially unacceptable, and 10 ppl who didn't have kids thought there was no problem with the act, it would be likely, statistically speaking, that he would change his mind.
This however is only a change in opinion and says absolutely nothing about whether or not having sex with children is an immoral act.
--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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It is an immoral act in most peoples' opinion.
--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11815481 - 01/12/10 01:35 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya, I would argue that morals themselves are nothing more than opinion, but that's a topic for another thread.
--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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There's no argument there, of course morals are opinions.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11815610 - 01/12/10 01:54 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think the majority of human beings would disagree with you on that.
This thread is testament enough.
Poid: Why is fucking children wrong?
majority: because your fucking children.
Small minority: ???
To most people morality becomes an absolute at a certain point for many killing, pedophilia etc. these things were deemed immoral by something they feel is greater than themselves and so who are they to question it.
It's illogical I know but there are arguments although I know from experience that you refuse to entertain them.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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If morals are not a result of the majority's opinion, then what do you posit morality is a result of?
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
If morals are not a result of the majority's opinion, then what do you posit morality is a result of?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Morality holds no sway with me, I feel it's an illogical concept.
There are people though that consider morality an absolute, for instance religious folk and their idea of morality is not necessarily subject to the majorities opinion.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
awesomebastard said:
There are people though that consider morality an absolute...
Well those people are as retarded as people who think that chocolate ice cream is an absolute good.
Quote:
awesomebastard said:
...for instance religious folk and their idea of morality is not necessarily subject to the majorities opinion.
Yeah, most religious people are retarded, too, IME.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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It has been proven that primate societies have a 'moral structure'. Clearly, they have no concept of 'god', so I'm wondering where there morality stems from. Could it not just be a case of 'monkey-see, monkey-do'? e.g. the majority of those in the primate society do things a certain way, so individuals do the same to prevent being socially unacceptable. This would be a case of morality being defined by the collective's opinion. That, and the species' need to be socially accepted.
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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
It has been proven that primate societies have a 'moral structure'. Clearly, they have no concept of 'god'...
Clearly?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
This would be a case of morality being defined by the collective's opinion.
Moral relativism has many problems of its own. How are we defining the majority? Are our current intuitive beliefs that slavery is immoral simply culturally dependent or, for example, do we actually have some grounds for judging the Nazis for their atrocious treatment of the Jews? What about when moral standards of a culture change over the time; can we say that one standard is better than other? What about the shared moral beliefs that are common across practically all cultures?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11816055 - 01/12/10 02:54 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
What about the shared moral beliefs that are common across practically all cultures?
Is there any one moral belief that is common across absolutely all cultures?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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awesomebastard
Lost
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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Quote:
pothead_bob said:
It has been proven that primate societies have a 'moral structure'.
You seem to be only seeing things in one dimension and assume that I do as well.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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The first dimension kicks ass.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11816125 - 01/12/10 03:02 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Is there any one moral belief that is common across absolutely all cultures?
This depends entirely upon how we precisely define 'culture', but using it in the traditional sense then anthropologist Clyde Kluckhohn has commented:
Quote:
Every culture has a concept of murder, distinguishing this from execution, killing in war, and other 'justifiable homicides'. The notions of incest and other regulations upon sexual behavior, of prohibitions upon untruth under defined circumstances, of restitution and reciprocity, of mutual obligations between parents and children--these and many other moral concepts are altogether universal.
Kluckhohn, Clyde. 1955. "Ethical Relativity: Sic et Non." Journal of Philosophy 52:663-77.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11816301 - 01/12/10 03:31 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think that there's any way to prove what every culture believes; there are many rural tribes whose culture has yet to be studied.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11816328 - 01/12/10 03:35 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Brilliant
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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I could have done better. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 13,719
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11816343 - 01/12/10 03:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's what I said.
--------------------
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11816368 - 01/12/10 03:41 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
I don't think that there's any way to prove what every culture believes; there are many rural tribes whose culture has yet to be studied.
I highly doubt you'll find cultures with moral beliefs that violate those previously mentioned commonly shared norms.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,764
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11816384 - 01/12/10 03:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
I don't think that there's any way to prove what every culture believes; there are many rural tribes whose culture has yet to be studied.
Like these folks, for instance, where it's ok to marry your 13 year old cousin. Well Not OK cause he was a bigamist. LOL.
"Age doesn't matter back home", she said, "you can marry at ten if you can find a husband". - Myra Lee Lewis
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Don't worry be happy.
Edited by LunarEclipse (01/12/10 03:50 PM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: deCypher]
#11816818 - 01/12/10 04:48 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Poid said:
I don't think that there's any way to prove what every culture believes; there are many rural tribes whose culture has yet to be studied.
I highly doubt you'll find cultures with moral beliefs that violate those previously mentioned commonly shared norms.
I highly doubt it, too, but still, the possibility is still there.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,677
Loc: Your computer screen
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
You seem to be only seeing things in one dimension and assume that I do as well.
You seem to be assuming that I see things in one dimension; however, I'm capable of seeing things in 1, 2, 3, and 4 dimensions.
--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)
Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Nice Carlin quote.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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yelyarb
feelin' watery
Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 26 days
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11823220 - 01/13/10 03:09 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Didn't want to read all 20 pages, it seemed exhausting
Did anyone already mention Edward Muscare in this thread? If not, here's some links, including his "Edarem" YouTube account.
http://www.youtube.com/user/edarem
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ae0_1256916517
http://phil-stevens.livejournal.com/815.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/04/crimesider/entry6054318.shtml
I was introduced to him through his video on the cardinals in his backyard, thought he was a hoot and started watching everything else.
Then I found out through some of his later videos that he had a pretty shady sounding past. A sick past. If you read the above links, and some others, you can piece the nature of his crime together for yourself. As there doesn't seem to be anything conclusive, it seems reasonable for each of us to decide for ourselves what we believe.
Regardless, he served time and has legally paid his debt to society. He since broke a rule for sex offenders in Florida that states you cannot own or have access to a computer. While nothing illegal was found on his computer, and none of his videos contain anything illicit, he has been sentenced to 5 years in prison for breaking the rule, which he claims he had no knowledge of. He also apparently moved without notification, though he alleges he did so under threat and fear for his life.
Obviously, consenting or otherwise, sexual contact with children is unacceptable. That being said, he appears to have changed his behaviour entirely over the last 20-odd years. Can people change? How long does it take for someone to change? Can someone change their sexual preferences? Do we allow ourselves to make mistakes and learn from them? An old timer I had in my cab today came out with the Golden Rule, talked about it in his life. What rights do we reserve for ourselves alone? Could we change ourselves after a terrible act? Does he deserve to be forgiven? Would we deserve forgiveness?
As uncomfortable as they may be, it might be useful to walk a mile in a pedo's shoes.
Edit: of course, I'm not encouraging anyone to go out and engage in pedophilia, just to imagine yourself in the shoes of someone who has committed a heinous crime.
--------------------
It's the same thing.
Edited by yelyarb (01/13/10 03:17 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,213
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: yelyarb]
#11824151 - 01/13/10 05:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I found this while following those links and thought it apropos:
--
Boy who had sex with14-year-old girl, was found dead in his bedroom due to sex offender laws.
Oakland youth in sex diary case found dead, committed suicide after finding out he would be placed on the sex offender registry for life.
BY MARSHA LOW
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
Justin Fawcett, whose name was among 22 penned in a 14-year-old girl's sex diary, was found dead in his bedroom Friday.
The Oakland County Medical Examiner's Office has yet to determine the cause of death, but David and Gayle Fawcett said their son died of a drug overdose.
Fawcett, 20, learned recently that his name would appear on the state's sex-offender list. His parents said they believe learning that he would live as a marked man came as a shock, and he faltered.
In May 2002, at age 18, Fawcett was one of four young men charged with statutory rape for having sex with a 14-year-old Andover High School student.
The girl's diary later revealed she had been sneaking out of her parents' Bloomfield Township home in the middle of the night to have oral and anal sex with 22 boys and men.
In a May 2002 interview with the Free Press, the girl conceded that she was a predator and a victim: "I declare I am both. Yes, I'm a victim. I was a victim who was deceived by my own emotions and ignorance, of misplaced confidence, a victim of my own fantasies . . . Yes, predator for I chase people who themselves were victims of misplaced confidence."
In September 2002, Fawcett pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of seduction, allowing him to avoid jail time and registry on the sex-offender list.
Pleading to seduction as Fawcett did in 2002 meant his name would not appear on the sex-offender list. But changes last year require those who pleaded guilty to seduction to appear on the list, said the county's Chief Deputy Prosecutor Deborah Carley.
He enrolled at Oakland Community College with the hope of earning a business degree. He was earning good grades and making plans to take a job this spring, his father said. His parents said he was working toward cleaning up his life.
In late February, Fawcett proudly took his well-received school reports to his probation officer as proof that he was a man getting his life in order, David Fawcett said. He was told then that he would be placed on the sex-offender list.
His parents called it a devastating blow to their son.The state enacted New Laws and applied them Retroactively, which is against the United States Constitution. His parents said it was wrong to for the state to break an agreement, their plea agreement, and do this to their son.They said they believe the plea agreement he made two years ago should stand.
The Fawcetts said juveniles have consensual sex all the time. And though they do not approve, they said they believe it is a mistake for the law to mark their son for life and label him a danger.
"We thought he was on the road back," David Fawcett said. "He would sometimes say he'd kill himself, and that worried us. But we watched him and we didn't think he was suicidal."
Fawcett's parents described him as a strong-willed and artistic boy who played the piano and enjoyed baseball and soccer.
The Fawcetts said they will work to give meaning to their son's life. They plan to campaign against drug use and to make the sex-offender list more meaningful.
"The sex-offender list was created so that people could know if there is a predator in their neighborhood," David Fawcett said. "Justin was not a predator, he was not a threat to anyone, and he should not have been on that list."
Citizens for Legislative Change, America's Thoughts:
This boy should have never been treated like this by the United States Government. This is happening all across this country. Children and men being arrested and charged with sex crimes, then branded for LIFETIME REGISTRATION AS A SEX OFFENDER.
Being branded a sex offender ruins your life. You cannot join the military, go to college, school, parks, or get a job. You can just about live NO WHERE. All of this is in place to send a person who gets branded a sex offender back to prison. But politicians, the ones making these laws, do not get prosecuted. They get off free.
This is a tragedy that is being played out all across this land.
Citizens for Change
--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,564
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Diploid]
#11824212 - 01/13/10 05:41 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Reacher
Music, Lover.
Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SeattleWA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Icelander]
#11824491 - 01/13/10 06:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Thou shalt not think any male over the age of 30 that plays with a child that is not their own is a pedophile; some people are just nice."
Dan Le Sac vs Scroobius Pip - Thou Shalt Always Kill
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Everything makes sense until you think about it.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
elementswrath said:
there is billions of them, why not adopt?
That's like saying why have pets instead of feeding starving kids.
The answer is, probably because everyone is free to do whatever the fuck they want, and not what someone else thinks it's "better".
if every one was allowed to do "what ever the fuck they want" the population would be lower.
i would start mass destruction
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Poid]
#11824961 - 01/13/10 07:45 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
elementswrath said:
in general no one should be having kids till the population runs down a bit, i am doing my part.
Quote:
elementswrath said:
do you really think the world needs another human being?
there is billions of them, why not adopt? save a kid not make one.
How will adopting a kid help the population run down?
not much, if only a couple are doing so.
but see it this way, people keep dieing so if people weren't producing in a fast enough rate for the amount people dieing at a certain time then the population would run down.
but i am really just fucking around on this subject, i could really care less about the state in the environment as long as i get to die naturally.
that's usually the starting point of societies problems, people being apathetic and selfish.
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Reacher
Music, Lover.
Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SeattleWA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Quote:
that's usually the starting point of societies problems, people being apathetic and selfish.
dude, i never thought of it that way
qft
--------------------
Everything makes sense until you think about it.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Burn the Pedophiles! [Re: Reacher]
#11825151 - 01/13/10 08:11 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Reacher said:
"Thou shalt not think any male over the age of 30 that plays with a child that is not their own is a pedophile; some people are just nice."
Dan Le Sac vs Scroobius Pip - Thou Shalt Always Kill
that reminds me of a time me and my buddies went bowling.
some little kid (3 or more i guess) just came up and started bowling on our lane, we taught her how to bowl and let her play for our turns.
it was really cute.
parents didn't mind at all, it makes me smile when people interact in such trusting, community like manner.
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