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 cyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
 
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,787
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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 Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11500984 - 11/21/09 06:52 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Poid said:
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cyb3rtr0n said:
I cant really think of the last time I thought to justify something I did for acceptance with myself, its usually due to how I think others may view me for something 
Is this particular type of justification necessary in order to sustain a pleasurable quality of life? 
It shouldn't be. But... 
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 Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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Quote:
cyb3rtr0n said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
cyb3rtr0n said:
I cant really think of the last time I thought to justify something I did for acceptance with myself, its usually due to how I think others may view me for something
Is this particular type of justification necessary in order to sustain a pleasurable quality of life?
It shouldn't be.
Are you saying that it often times is, and that you wish things weren't like this?
It either is necessary or it isn't; it's a yes or no question. 
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cyb3rtr0n said:
But...
Why the need to justify yourself in the face of others? Why not just live and let die! 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 54 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11501088 - 11/21/09 07:14 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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We operate on a scale and weigh things. Every act that comes from this measure could be said to be justifyed. If some justification begins to rise into the conscious mind, it's probably worth some investigation rather than instaint reinforcement.
Justification can be used to avoid more reasonable behaviour (I think this is what you're getting at), and unfortunatley it seems, it is (or at least has been) necessary for humans to justify their actions in this way. A reactive and justifyed decision could be better than no decision in the game of survival. Then again, this type of justification could result in removal from the gene pool.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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cyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,787
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11501166 - 11/21/09 07:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Are you saying that it often times is, and that you wish things weren't like this?
It either is necessary or it isn't; it's a yes or no question.
Well, I feel the correct answer in personal justification is no. We shouldn't have to justify our thoughts/actions/beliefs as long as they aren't intended to effect another person.
But, in the back of my mind there is a lingering thought that "maybe I'm wrong", and that is what keeps the cycle going.
ex: marijuana is against the law. If I decide to smoke it, I feel personally that there is nothing morally wrong with it. But, if my eyes happen to be red, or I have perma smile, and I go into a store. People are going to think negatively of me because smoking weed is against the law, not because I'm doing anything wrong to them or anything/anyone else. I guess in this case Justification is a defense against their judgment.
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Poid said:
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cyb3rtr0n said:
But...
Why the need to justify yourself in the face of others? Why not just live and let die!
I don't know, that's where I'm confused on the issue.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Justification [Re: Rahz]
#11501169 - 11/21/09 07:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Then again, this type of justification could result in removal from the gene pool.
So it's all about death anxiety? 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
cyb3rtr0n said:
I guess in this case Justification is a defense against their judgment.
So why would another person's judgment of yourself have priority over your own? 
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cyb3rtr0n said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
cyb3rtr0n said:
But...
Why the need to justify yourself in the face of others? Why not just live and let die!
I don't know, that's where I'm confused on the issue.
You brought it up, so I can't imagine why you'd be confused.
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cyb3rtr0n said:
...its usually due to how I think others may view me for something
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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cyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,787
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11501237 - 11/21/09 07:42 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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the "but... " comment was because I wish that I could rid myself of that destructive thought pattern..
the solution seems simple, but in actuality it's difficult.
as far as another's opinion holding more weight than my own.. yes, that is the road I should be avoiding. but I can't find the map...
what made you make the thread? are you in a similar position?
Edited by cyb3rtr0n (11/21/09 07:43 PM)
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 54 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11501287 - 11/21/09 07:50 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Rahz said:
Then again, this type of justification could result in removal from the gene pool.
So it's all about death anxiety?
Yea, it would be fair to say that some fear of death makes survival and procreation more likely. However, too much fear is emotionally and physically unhealthy, and would reduce survival rates.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Justification [Re: Rahz]
#11501502 - 11/21/09 08:39 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cyb3rtr0n said:
what made you make the thread? are you in a similar position?
No, but I have studied others and through my studies I have concluded that many are in this position.
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Rahz said:
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Poid said:
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Rahz said:
Then again, this type of justification could result in removal from the gene pool.
So it's all about death anxiety?
Yea, it would be fair to say that some fear of death makes survival and procreation more likely. However, too much fear is emotionally and physically unhealthy, and would reduce survival rates.
So some justify their actions in the face of others because they fear that not doing so would result in them being outcasted like a leper? 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 54 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11501528 - 11/21/09 08:44 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
So some justify their actions in the face of others because they fear that not doing so would result in them being outcasted like a leper?
Some do, though within the whole death anxiety concept, fear of being an outcast is only a subset. You sure you don't have something specific in mind? 
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Justification [Re: Rahz]
#11505782 - 11/22/09 04:34 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
You sure you don't have something specific in mind?
It's a pretty broad concept, IMO, so I don't really have anything specific in mind.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 54 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11507172 - 11/22/09 07:53 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sure social validation plays a big part in the instinctive survival game.  But in a broad way, you could say justification is simply a tool of decision. Can I justify doing so-and-so? If you can't, you don't do it, but if you can, you do. And it could be fair to say that all decisions are related to death anxiety, just as everything could be related to death anxiety.
It's a process of weighing things in relation to each other, and ultimately coming up with the most agreeable answer. Lying could be considered optional.
I guess it depends on what you mean by necessary. Everything that has ever happened has been necessary. Is there really any difference between has been and is?
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Justification [Re: Rahz]
#11509663 - 11/23/09 08:38 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
But in a broad way, you could say justification is simply a tool of decision.
I would say that all decisions would necessarily require some sort of justification, but not all forms of justification are necessarily some sort of decision.
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Rahz said:
Everything that has ever happened has been necessary.
How do you mean?
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Rahz said:
Is there really any difference between has been and is?
I would say that the difference is pretty goddamn huge.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 54 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11509721 - 11/23/09 08:51 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would say that all decisions would necessarily require some sort of justification, but not all forms of justification are necessarily some sort of decision.
I would argue that it's always some sort of decision, though it's arguable that logic and rationality were involved.
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How do you mean?
Unless there is something specific "necessary for what...", then it was all necessary. Absolutely essential for the universe to be what it is today.
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I would say that the difference is pretty goddamn huge.
In what way?
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Justification [Re: Rahz]
#11509741 - 11/23/09 08:55 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
I would say that all decisions would necessarily require some sort of justification, but not all forms of justification are necessarily some sort of decision.
I would argue that it's always some sort of decision, though it's arguable that logic and rationality were involved.
Well, I guess you are right, since one has to decide to justify something in order to justify something.
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Rahz said:
Absolutely essential for the universe to be what it is today.
That's the answer I was looking for.
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Rahz said:
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I would say that the difference is pretty goddamn huge.
In what way?
For example, my old parrot Poid was alive and currently isn't; obviously, death and life can be seen as polar opposites, so the difference between them is huge as fuck.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety 
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11509749 - 11/23/09 08:57 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Is it ever really necessary?
   
justification is a sister to denial.
just trying to deny that what you did was wrong.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 54 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11509750 - 11/23/09 08:57 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was thinking along the lines of whether justification will be necessary today.
There's other parrots.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,361
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
elementswrath said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Is it ever really necessary?
justification is a sister to denial.
How old is she?
But seriously, how do you mean?
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elementswrath said:
just trying to deny that what you did was wrong.
Couldn't it also be justifying the things that you did that were not wrong?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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Re: Justification [Re: Poid]
#11509787 - 11/23/09 09:08 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
elementswrath said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Is it ever really necessary?
justification is a sister to denial.
How old is she?
But seriously, how do you mean?
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elementswrath said:
just trying to deny that what you did was wrong.
Couldn't it also be justifying the things that you did that were not wrong?
saying something is a sister to the other means they are related.
like say dog and wolf.
and yes, i guess justification is a bi-polar sister
it still is a sister of denial.
and a cousin of truth.
it's one big happy family.
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elementswrath
Finger' trippin good
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
Loc: suiciety
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nah, i am just fucking around.
but yes, denia* oops i mean justification is necessary.
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