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 RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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 Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: Ahimsa]
#11467463 - 11/16/09 01:26 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not all concepts are related to reality. Concepts such as God, Fairies, Infinity, etc are floating abstractions that do not relate to any concretes in reality. Reality being that which exists and to exist is to be something as distinguished from the nothing of non-existence. For something to exist it must have a specific nature and attributes that can be distinguished. A concept is an abstraction from observed characteristics of the attributes of concrete existents. For a concept to be valid it must relate to actual concretes in existence.
Edited by RationalEgo (11/16/09 01:45 PM)
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 Mr. Mushroom
Mrs. Mushrooms <3
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 606
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 4 months, 2 days
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: RationalEgo]
#11467496 - 11/16/09 01:30 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: irrelevant to the debate
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"When the world starts going to shit....grow mushrooms!"
I lost my mind, its somewhere out there stranded!
Read my bio.
TRADE LIST GROW LOG
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,039
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: Mr. Mushroom]
#11467591 - 11/16/09 01:42 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: intruders' posts will be deleted
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Ahimsa
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: RationalEgo]
#11468048 - 11/16/09 02:58 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Concrete and abstract realities exist in exactly the same way. Their conceptualisation doesn't make them less or more real/unreal. They share the same properties; they have characteristics unique to themselves, they have causes and depend upon conditions, and they are neither nothing nor are they eternal.
When we name entities, we place labels and organise phenomena according to logic and reasoning, this includes abstract conceptualising, whether they are 'real' or 'unreal' doesn't change the process of identifying the way they exist/not exist, and that is always 'interdependence' and 'co-productive origination', and is eventually what we are all talking about.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: The Chronic]
#11468049 - 11/16/09 02:58 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: thank you for pointing this out (quoted in my response) +
not part of any of the debate topics
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: RationalEgo]
#11468219 - 11/16/09 03:23 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Chronic has already proven himself chronically incapable of forming an idea consistent with reality. 
Reminder: Personalisms are against the rules in PS&P.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: Icelander]
#11468239 - 11/16/09 03:27 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I thought this was supposed to consist of the two debaters? Everyone else was supposed to stay the fuck out.
Second try to make this thread for debate. If you missed it go back to the OP and Diploid's posts.
If you're not here to start a debate or to directly respond to a debate topic then stay out. If the thread continues to devolve then I don't see the point in having debate threads or debate stickies...
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: Ahimsa]
#11468364 - 11/16/09 03:40 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Concretes and abstractions do not exist in the same way in reality. Abstractions do not have concrete existence as they are merely concepts in the mind used to refer to concretes and group them together by observable attributes (abstraction). A concept is an idea in the mind that has no actual concrete substance - it is merely tool of cognition. Concretes on the other hand are actual existents in reality.
You cannot 'identify' that which does not exist, that would be a contradiction. Only existence presupposes identity therefore only things that exist can be identified and properly abstracted from to form a valid concept.
Edited by RationalEgo (11/16/09 03:49 PM)
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Ahimsa
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: RationalEgo]
#11473136 - 11/17/09 10:04 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree that entities can be called 'real' or 'unreal' dependent upon them being represented by a concrete example.
However, fairies and doctors can be described in the same manner. They may or may not be represented concretely in reality, yet to the mind, they 'exist' in the same way.
All entities, real or not, are collections of characteristics bound by causes and conditions. That's what i mean when i state that all entities are the same thing... perhaps a bit poorly stated. (if you leave it at that then i'm glad to have debated with you and pass the glove on to someone else  , time for fresh blood)
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: Ahimsa]
#11473161 - 11/17/09 10:08 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahimsa said:
However, fairies and doctors can be described in the same manner. They may or may not be represented concretely in reality, yet to the mind, they 'exist' in the same way.
Only to a delusional or misinformed mind would fairies be thought to 'exist' at all.
Quote:
All entities, real or not, are collections of characteristics bound by causes and conditions. That's what i mean when i state that all entities are the same thing... perhaps a bit poorly stated. (if you leave it at that then i'm glad to have debated with you and pass the glove on to someone else , time for fresh blood)
Only real entities have collections of attributes bound by cause and effect. Unreal ones by definition do not exist.
/endofdebate
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,672
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 2 days, 5 minutes
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: RationalEgo]
#11474558 - 11/17/09 02:12 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: not part of debate
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Jesus loves you.
Edited by andrewss (11/17/09 02:25 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: andrewss]
#11474629 - 11/17/09 02:22 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: not part of debate
Edited by Icelander (11/17/09 02:23 PM)
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,672
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 2 days, 5 minutes
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
#11474653 - 11/17/09 02:26 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: not part of debate
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Jesus loves you.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: andrewss]
#11474669 - 11/17/09 02:27 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: not part of debate
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: Icelander]
#11474753 - 11/17/09 02:39 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Once again: the thread is for parties of two who are debating one topic.
The thread is not for general discussion or commenting on others' posts.
If you want to comment or help one side, send them your opinions and thoughts by PM.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,672
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 2 days, 5 minutes
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: Lakefingers]
#11474773 - 11/17/09 02:42 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: not part of debate
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Jesus loves you.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: andrewss]
#11477613 - 11/18/09 09:17 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Would the moderator mind very mucb removing inappropriate posts as promised?
Thanks
New Topic.
1. Reason is an absolute and also everything is an absolute (I will argue this of course)
2. Reason is relative and also everything is realtive
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: RationalEgo]
#11491500 - 11/20/09 07:28 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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topic:
1. too much attachment to the concepts of reason and rationality bring rise to religious behavior.
2. too much attachment to the concepts of reason and rationality does not bring rise to religious behavior.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters [Re: deranger]
#11492065 - 11/20/09 10:06 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said:
topic:
1. too much attachment to the concepts of reason and rationality bring rise to religious behavior.
2. too much attachment to the concepts of reason and rationality does not bring rise to religious behavior.
Thats easy, I'll debate that no problem
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Bullpen Thread for wannabe weekly debaters *DELETED* [Re: RationalEgo]
#11492177 - 11/20/09 10:33 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LakefingersReason for deletion: Off topic, against the Bullpen-sticky rules
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