Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!
|
 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Of all the books Castaneda wrote and he wrote a shitload, I think the fourth is the best. I think the first four make a complete unit.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
yogabunny
Sillypants McFuzzyfluff
 
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 6,425
Loc: rearranging reality
|
|
well, i will have to pay a visit to my book guys then!!
|
OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,378
Loc: Luxor
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
Of all the books Castaneda wrote and he wrote a shitload, I think the fourth is the best. I think the first four make a complete unit.
But then his creative well dried up and a decade or two later he hashed and rehashed his earlier works in several entirely unmemorable works.
--------------------
This is your drain on brugs.
|
 Grapefruit
Obliviated
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,276
Last seen: 22 hours, 44 minutes
|
|
So that's why The Art of Dreaming sucked so badly, i bought it for lucid dreaming not knowing who casteneda was and hated it. I always assumed the first one was the only good one, will have to buy the other 3 now.
--------------------
"So man's insanity is heaven's sense; and wandering from all mortal reason, man comes at last to that celestial thought, which, to reason, is absurd and frantic; and weal or woe, feels then uncompromised, indifferent as his God." - Herman Melville
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
|
|
IMO the third and forth were the best. The first set the stage but had very little to point to the direction the other books were going in.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
Of all the books Castaneda wrote and he wrote a shitload, I think the fourth is the best. I think the first four make a complete unit.
They were all mystical nonsense. His works were debunked over and over again. Not too mention his little cult ended in the suicides of his 'close female students'.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
|
|
All mystical nonsense? That's a foolish statement IMO. While the books may have had a fictional setting a lot of the ideas in the books are sound psychology. I know this because I use some of them successfully. Of course they aren't original but he did a great job of conveying the information in a very entertaining fiction which I admit has a lot of mystical (imo) nonsense.
This reminds me I was going to mention to you the works of Albert Ellis who founded Rational Emotive Therapy. Talk about a rational way to deal with emoting. Anyway his ideas and Castaneda's dovetail nicely.
I'm wondering if you have read those four books before you formed your black and white opinions?
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,012
Loc: Boston
|
|
I read the first two of the books and half of the last one. So not all of them no. But since I read the first two and half of the last the probability that they were all in the same irrational, mystical vein is pretty damn high.
|
yogabunny
Sillypants McFuzzyfluff
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 6,425
Loc: rearranging reality
|
|
would you mind giving an example of something from either book you consider mystical nonsense???
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
I read the first two of the books and half of the last one. So not all of them no. But since I read the first two and half of the last the probability that they were all in the same irrational, mystical vein is pretty damn high.
So if you read that much you must have found them vaguely interesting.
But my point still stands. I don't need for all of it to be true or great to get out valuable parts that work for me. If I did that I could even find a reason to dismiss Rand. I know I could. I don't choose to live in an black and white world. For me that's not logical.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
nicolita said:
would you mind giving an example of something from either book you consider mystical nonsense???
You know there is a lot in those books that has never be verified. For instance finding a good and bad spot to rest. Creating the double. Being able to transport oneself over vast distances instantly and a hundred others. There is no evidence that there is truth to these things.
However the idea of taking responsibility for your actions, using the idea of your death as an adviser and other ideas are sound imo.
Btw the sorcerer's explanation in the forth book is worth the total price of admission imo. Whether true or not it is very very fascinating and thought provoking imo.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
yogabunny
Sillypants McFuzzyfluff
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 6,425
Loc: rearranging reality
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
You know there is a lot in those books that has never be verified. For instance finding a good and bad spot to rest. Creating the double. Being able to transport oneself over vast distances instantly and a hundred others. There is no evidence that there is truth to these things.
However the idea of taking responsibility for your actions, using the idea of your death as an adviser and other ideas are sound imo.
Btw the sorcerer's explanation in the forth book is worth the total price of admission imo. Whether true or not it is very very fascinating and thought provoking imo.
i know that. he said "all mystical nonsense" so i was just curious what he meant.
i'll have to go back and read over that part of the book, but i always thought that finding a good spot/bad spot to rest as kind of a lesson toward having intention. kind of a mind fuck tool for finding a state of relaxed readiness. also that in the end there is no good/bad, just wherever you are, that's your spot.
|
ocelot
Stranger
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 4
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
|
 Re: Who Are You? [Re: Veritas]
#11474260 - 11/17/09 01:25 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
1. What was your upbringing? Did your family have money? Were they religious? Did they discuss philosophy and/or spirituality with you?
I grew up with my mom, dad, and brother in an upper middle class environment in the suburbs. My parents are both Jewish and I was raised Jewish, went to Hebrew School, had a Bar Mitzvah, the whole nine yards. They never really discussed any of these things with me. We sort of went to temple and celebrated holidays but never really talked about it.
The first time I can remember questioning God was when I first heard George Carlin's "Invisible Man in the Sky" routine. Something just clicked with me when I heard it. I felt like it was funny, but beyond that, it made a lot of sense.
After 9/11 is I guess when you can say I became Athiest. I just decided that religion didn't make any sense and could be too easily misused. I was a "militant atheist" for awhile, trying to convert everyone to my views, but that has faded into simple agnosticism. I don't particularly care much about a person's views and I don't really try to change anyone unless they demonstrate that they are looking for a change and that my ideas might be able to help them.
As far as my current metaphysics, they are identical to those of the philosopher Alan Watts.
2. How was your educational experience? Did you enjoy school? Were you academically-oriented, or disinterested? How much of your education has found application in your daily life?
I always did well in school and enjoyed it for the most part. Socially things were a bit lacking but they never really got out of hand. I was academically oriented and enjoyed learning, but more about topics I was interested in.
After high school I went to college and started to pursue my degree in Biology. I was distracted by my living conditions during my sophomore year and never really studied well, resulting in some poor grades that made me switch my degree to English. I loved the English major coursework and read a lot of life-changing materials, but in hindsight I wish I would've gotten a higher-paying degree with more job possibilities. I don't fully regret the switch though.
3. What career interests you? Are you working in this career now? Do you feel satisfied in your work, or is it mainly a paycheck job? What work would you do if you did not have to earn money?
I'm not sure what interests me, but it's definitely not what I'm doing right now. Right now I work in internet marketing with some web design on the side. It's okay but it doesn't really do much for me in terms of meaningful fulfillment. I think I'd like to work outdoors or with animals, or in some way helping the world. Conservation sounds like it would be up my alley.
If I didn't have to earn money I would be a philosopher, just sitting around all day and thinking, writing down my ideas. I'm sure this would get tiresome so I'd also like to travel and expand my mind and knowledge as much as possible.
4. Has your philosophy/spirituality changed much over the years? Have you had epiphanies or rude awakenings which led you to reconsider your beliefs/values? At what age did you first become interested in philosophy/spirituality?
My philosophy has changed drastically over the years. In early high school I was very depressed and caught up in the surface stress of things. I didn't really concern myself with philosophy much. I smoked some weed and that seemed to help. Around this time I had my first mushroom trip and I think that really introduced me to the general understanding that reality was flat out WEIRD, that maybe my typical surface concerns weren't so important or real, and that I might not just be this isolated ego trapped in a bag of skin.
In college I continued to explore, and became a big fan of the ideas of existentialism. Then one day I was reading about meditation and stumbled upon Buddhism, as well as the single most influential person in my life: philosopher Alan Watts. Now you could say my philosophy and metaphysics mirror his almost exactly. It's a sort of Zen outlook, but it resists the label. It's working well for me now.
5. What are your core values? How are these values expressed in your daily life? Do you feel that your values are similar or dissimilar to those of the majority?
My core values are understanding, intelligence, balance, interconnectedness, and some other things. It's hard for me to pin down the way I feel with words. Most of my understanding is very intuitive and difficult to explain to others. Sometimes my values are expressed in my every day life, but many times they are stifled by the feeling to conform in some way. My ideal life is one where I am completely honest with myself, and where what I think, say, and do are all the same thing. I definitely feel like I am part of the minority.
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ וואלה
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 4,929
Loc: Turtle Island 
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
|
Re: Who Are You? [Re: Veritas]
#11495812 - 11/20/09 08:04 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I'm a 20yr old canadian living in toronto.
1. What was your upbringing? Did your family have money? Were they religious? Did they discuss philosophy and/or spirituality with you?
My family includes an older sister, younger brother, and a mom (english/irish/scottish descent, but family has been in north america for hundreds of years) and dad (1st generation italian immigrant). We almost had that middle class dream- four bedroom, 3 bathrooms, 2 car garage house in the burbs, mom left her job as a nurse to take care of the kids while dad worked as a truck driver. Everything was looking good.
Then my dad was laid off.
Then my mom got cancer.
Then my dad was ripped off by his business partner after starting a business.
Then we had to sell the house (I was in grade 2) and move into my aunts basement in Toronto to be closer to the hospitals.
When we finally got to move back out to the same burb in central ontrio, things had changed.
We lived in a smaller house, dad worked longer hours, mom got a second job, and yet we still never had much money. I wouldn't say we were living in poverty- but we were hovering just above it.
Other than the system failing my parents, they were great at raising me. Never pushed any religion or politics on me, and instead stressed I form my own opinions. I have no problems with how I was raised.
2. How was your educational experience? Did you enjoy school? Were you academically-oriented, or disinterested? How much of your education has found application in your daily life?
I had great grades, that slowly got worse as I got older and realized that they meant nothing about what I had actually learnt. I still managed to graduate highschool with minimal work and decent grades.(although I did return for half a semester after) I was definitely happen to leave. I wasn't a loner, but those years were akward ones.
I'm in university now, but I don't really know why. I don't want a career, so I think I'm just wasting time.
I like to learn, but I hate the teaching and grading methods our schooling uses. I don't feel it is actually learning. But I have always been interested in learning new things, especially about organic chemistry, quantum and relative physics, eastern mysticism, and survival skills. These I use in my daily life (except the physics I guess..)
3. What career interests you? Are you working in this career now? Do you feel satisfied in your work, or is it mainly a paycheck job? What work would you do if you did not have to earn money?
I don't really want a career.. I plan to eventually be able to survive on very little and travel. Not sure when I'll pull it off. But if I had to choose, it would be a researcher, as my own boss.
If money wasn't a problem, I would just travel the world.
4. Has your philosophy/spirituality changed much over the years? Have you had epiphanies or rude awakenings which led you to reconsider your beliefs/values? At what age did you first become interested in philosophy/spirituality?
VERY MUCH.
young: not much thought to philosophy except for realizing that I didn't seem to know half of what everyone else was so sure of. Otherwise, I was your normal kid.
teen: punk rock/ anarchy. Beginings of my anti-authority sentiments. Began smoking pot at this time, and had my first truly philosophical musings.
Decided I was pretty sure no god existed, but never made the claim to atheism. Had no sense of spirituality. But I was always logical minded, took lots of science and math courses- and only the required enlgish and arts.
Then I took mushrooms, and went through a paradigm shift. I did my best to best kind to everyone, be calm and positive to myself, and set off on the path I am still on today. Began to become interested in buddhist philosophy and meditation, but still not spiritual minded.
post highschool: immidiately after getting out, I decided to take an extend trip out to india and nepal. Worked for 9 months, and than flew out and travelled for 5months- until I ran out of money.
This had a huge effect on me, in many ways. I had several spiritual awakenings, where I became connected to shiva- and shiva consciousness philosophy.
I constantly reflect on every aspect of this trip for perspective in my daily life, and can easily say, even though I have no idea why I did it, this was the best choice I have ever made in my life- even moreso than deciding to take a psychedelic or ganja.
now: I am constantly surprised at how strong of a spiritual faith I have- I would never have thought this even a few years ago. But at the same time, I do not agree with organized, dogmatic religions- I believe that we will all come to our own personal conclusions and that these are right for each of us, relatively.
I still don't like authority, and strongly believe in self-sufficiency. I do my best to live up to this ideal. I meditate often, and dance to psytrance. But otherwise, the core realizations from my earlier years have stuck with me.
5. What are your core values? How are these values expressed in your daily life? Do you feel that your values are similar or dissimilar to those of the majority?
That golden rule: treat others how you would like to be treated.
Constantly pursue new knowledge and a greater understanding.
And to exist in the state of shiva-consciousness.
I like to think the very way I live reflects these values, but I also know that I have much improvement in this regard.
I think most people would profess to the first two values, but not many would live up to it.
I think not many other than shaivite sadhus will adhere to the third value.
--------------------
 
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
|
|
 you seem to have a nice middle path perspective.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ וואלה
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 4,929
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
|
|
I have to say I end up agreeing with most of your posts.
I just have some faith in humanity still, I guess.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,561
Loc: underbelly
|
|
There's still time.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
kab00mers
Stranger
Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 9
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
|
|
i wanna lurk for a while.
|
deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
|
|
i am a concept about myself, or a collection of concepts which make up who i think i am.
i discovered this heavily tripping a few times. then i started caring less and less about these concepts, and wanted them to be gone.
now they don't make much sense to me. well they make sense, there's just not much sense in them, most of the time.
|
NobodyCares
Holy macaroni!
Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 1,861
Loc: Brilliance/Insanity
Last seen: 3 months, 6 days
|
Re: Who Are You? [Re: Veritas]
#11568869 - 12/02/09 08:51 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
1. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by upbringing. My family did have money, but that hasn't really effected me in any clear way.  It's helped not to have to take out any student loans though. I was raised catholic, my mother converted to gnosticism about four years ago, and my father is in the process of converting from Catholicism to the Greek Orthodox church. My mother always discussed her spirituality with me, and I usually disagreed. As I've read more and gotten older I've found that we think alike in regards to spirituality in a lot of ways. My father is very conservative and while we agree on some things, he tends to espouse a lot of the stereotypical conservative Christian social BS that I vehemently disagree with (i.e. pro-life, anti-gay, anti-evolution, etc.). So yes, these topics were a frequent topic of discussion in my household.
2. My educational experience has been mixed. I always hated being lectured at because I don't like being talked down to. College has been better because the seminar format (which I find much more conducive to learning) is a lot more common than straight lecture-style. I enjoy learning, but school is not always about learning, in fact, sometimes it can be downright at odds with learning. I'm academically oriented when my interest is piqued, which does happen, occasionally. My education has found more application in daily life as I've specialized, i.e. moved from general liberal-arts BS into actual I/O psychology and HR training.
3. I'm interested in a career as a Human Resources Generalist, or perhaps as an Industrial Psychologist. No, I won't be able to enter my chosen field until I complete my degree in May of 2010. School is a necessary evil to prove that I do in fact know what the hell I'm doing.  Given infinite wealth I would probably think a lot more, read a lot more and play a lot more video games. I'm sure my drug consumption would increase to, as a lack of obligations seems to be correlated with more drug use for me.
4. Yes, my personal spirituality has softened from vehement atheism to a more tentative deism over the past two years. Research in this regard is ongoing. I have only recently become open to reading and thinking about spirituality, but philosophy is something that has been an interest of mine since I was in middle school.
5. I am a logical positivist, a deist, and an existentialist. My belief in the need for evidence leads to a practical need to see evidence before I'll concede a point, and I tend to lean more towards proofs that have research behind them, rather than logic. I do believe that some things can be reasonably assumed however, but I'm not a fan of the so-called 'thought experiment' as in my experience most processes in the real world tend to not work exactly how logic would dictate, if they don't outright defy logic. I think that my values are somewhat similar to most people who consider themselves psychologists, but different from society at large. I'm not sure how my personal beliefs compare to those held by the people who frequent this forum, as I've only recently allowed myself to be open enough to really engage anyone other than myself when it comes to spirituality. I think I still have a lot to learn when it comes to religion and spirituality, and I'm sure a lot of people here have been searching longer than I have. Hopefully I can pick up a thing or two as a result of posting here. 
--------------------
If you can be told what to see or read, then it follows that you can be told what to say or think. ~Boards of Canada
Now we see things, as in a mirror dimly, and we shall see each other face to face.
--------------------
At first there was a time, when I believed a kiss was just a kiss, no matter how I missed you...
| |
|
|
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Mr. Middle, Diploid
45,002 topic views. 5 members, 5 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic ]
| | |
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
