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MitchKock
BlueDevilHunter


Registered: 11/07/09
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Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos
#11424105 - 11/10/09 01:54 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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The purpose of this post is two-fold....
Firstly, to try and determine the macroscopic differences between the azurescens and the broadly umbonate variation of the cyanofriscosa. I have seen multiple photos of the cyanofriscosa with an umbo making it virtually identical to the azurescens.
Secondly, to show some of my better photos of psilocybe finds from fall 2009. All which came from within a maximum of 20 minutes from downtown Portland.
These first photos are of what I think to be azurescens, however I also found what I believe to be "common" cyanofriscosas (lacking the umbo - visually similar to cyanofibrillosa) only a couple hundred yards away. Both these mushrooms had similar, if not identical, spore print colors - Purple/brown, almost black. The potential azurs were considerably larger than the cyanos, which tended to have the majority of the stem underground. In most cases, only the cap and a small amount of stem was protruding from the ground. The caps were not as large as the potential azurs, either. Normally I would trust my gut that these are azurs, but the proximity to the cyanos, coupled with the fact that I have seen photos of them looking virtually identical (broadly umbonate) to azurs, leaves me wondering.






The next photos are of the (what I believe to be) "umbo-less" cyanofriscosas that were very close by.



Any help on macroscopic differences in the azur vs the broadly umbonate cyanofriscosa is greatly appreciated.
The rest of the pictures are just some fun finds of the fall..... My ID's are based purely on macroscopic information, and done to the best of my ability. Please share with me if you think I may be wrong on anything.
Psilocybe Stuntzii (wood-loving)


Psilocybe Cyanescens




Thanks, MK
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karode13
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: MitchKock]
#11424193 - 11/10/09 02:47 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice first post MitchKock
Those mushrooms don't grow where I'm located so can't help you with info, nice finds though.
Welcome to the Shroomery!
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Mr. Mushrooms
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: MitchKock]
#11424482 - 11/10/09 06:12 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Welcome to the Shroomery, Mitch. Nice flush and great mushrooms.
I'd like to hear some of the West Coast weigh in on these. In my experience I would immediately call those Azures from the classic Azure morphology. Did you try bruising them? I've seen friscos bruise as dark, I'm just curious. Alan has posted some umbonate friscos on the Internet but I don't know if he did the microscopy necessary to distinguish them. I do know that multiple species can group if the conditions are right.
Here's an example of friscos and cyans mingled together.

Here are two of Alan's umbonate variety.
http://www.mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/8469?obs=5035&seq_key=793173 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Psilocybe_cyanofriscosa_8486.jpg
He can explain them.
Quote:
I have seen multiple photos of the cyanofriscosa with an umbo making it virtually identical to the azurescens.
My suspicion is that the photos were taken because it is unusual and not representative of the species at all. Most friscos I have seen are plain, not umbonate.
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German Kahuna
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#11424497 - 11/10/09 06:20 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do any other than P. azurescens of the species discussed here have a white rim around the pileus?
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Mr. Mushrooms
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: German Kahuna]
#11424505 - 11/10/09 06:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Other than friscos I'm not sure.
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German Kahuna
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#11424541 - 11/10/09 06:32 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, I don't know friscos too well at all, that's why I asked. But I plan to make a few outdoor beds next year.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Fahkface
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: German Kahuna]
#11424914 - 11/10/09 08:20 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Indeed a nice first post! Congrats on the finds!
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MitchKock
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Fahkface]
#11425892 - 11/10/09 11:28 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mr Mushroom, Yes, the blue bruising was very intense with both the potential azurescens and the cyanofriscosas, however it was more evident in the azures.
There is a spore selling website that was selling cyanos, and the picture they used was of only broadly umbonate (macroscopically similar to azures) cyanofriscosas. If I didn't know of the existence of (broadly umbonate) cyanos, I would immediately assume them to be azures by the picture alone. After several attempts to find this site, and its cyano pictures, I can not locate it. It is a prime example of the cause of my confusion. If anyone finds this picture, please let me know.
On a different note... should I start referring to the cyanofricosa as cyanofriscana?
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Mr. Mushrooms
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: MitchKock]
#11426006 - 11/10/09 11:50 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can refer to it anyway you want. Many of us are aware the name isn't correct though.
I googled around for the website but I couldn't find anything. Sorry.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist



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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: MitchKock]
#11426119 - 11/10/09 12:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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The first group is azures, the second group is cyanofriscosa. The umbo is much more reliable on the azures, and the stem is a bit thinner.
Cyanofriscosa has to have a thicker cap that is more rounded at the edges.
Cyanofriscana is more correct latin, but not many people call it that. You can call it either name but more people will know what you are talking about if you call it cyanofriscosa.
Cyanofriscosa: 9750 google hits Cyanofriscana: 4 google hits
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Mr. Mushrooms
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#11426267 - 11/10/09 12:30 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sweet. That's what I thought. Anybody know what a dose is for friscos?
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BlimeyGrimey
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#11426319 - 11/10/09 12:36 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dose is the same as Psilocybe cyanescens.
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caphillkid
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#11426361 - 11/10/09 12:40 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Cyanofriscana is more correct latin...
It's fake Latin so I don't think either is more correct, but I would love to hear an explanation.
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CubeBensies
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: caphillkid]
#11428561 - 11/10/09 06:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Very cool seeing a urban azurescens patch that is apparently not a result of cultivation. I just got back from picking azures today, If I were to print a bunch of them and make a spray bottle and start spraying the shit out of seattle area woodchip beds, do you guys think that they would start growing like the patch the OP found?
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Topcorn
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#11428876 - 11/10/09 07:45 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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do the cyanofriscanas become wavy as they mature, or is the cap margin generally even, as is with the azures?
I found a large patch yesterday of what i assumed were regular cyans, as i got home and cleaned em up i started to notice that while most had the classic upturned margin i find on so many cyans, a bunch have a margin that is not quite upturned, but instead remains a bit rounded even with very wavy mature specimens.
 in this pic the big one on the right has what i call an upturned margin, i find a lot of mature ones like this everywhere. the ones in the middle have more of a rounded margin, even some large mature wavy ones had margins that were still rounded, there were a lot more that had rounded blue margins, not just these pictured.
These were found in bellingham, the weather up here has been perfect for growth lately, i dont think these are just some regular cyans that began to decay before reaching full maturity. could they be a "strain" of cyanescens or maybe a diff species? If they are something different the patch appears to a mix of them and cyanescens.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Topcorn]
#11428903 - 11/10/09 07:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
do the cyanofriscanas become wavy as they mature, or is the cap margin generally even, as is with the azures?
Sometimes, but not usually.
Quote:
I found a large patch yesterday of what i assumed were regular cyans,
Those are regular cyans. In SF it seems evenly split 50/50 between cyanescens and cyanofriscosa, but in the PNW there is much more cyanescens.
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Dobie
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#11429038 - 11/10/09 08:07 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry I have been outta the scene for a couple years now, But are azures not strictly a costal speicies now?
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notapillow
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#11429081 - 11/10/09 08:12 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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thats amazing
i wonder if that patch was made or moved for a nearby area
that park is fucking bursting with magic
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CubeBensies
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: notapillow]
#11430225 - 11/10/09 10:55 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am now printing a bunch of azures to make spray bottles and hopefully start some urban patches like the one you found for next year.
Mitch, I have a couple questions for you. It is hard to see what substrate the azures are growing from because of all the leaves, is it woodchips and dirt or really decomposed chips or mulch or what?
The first pic makes the patch look really in the open, was is in the middle of the bed or on the edge of the bed near plants and trees?
The only urban mushrooms I pick nowadays are cyans, is there anything distinctly different about this bed from "normal" cyan beds?
Any info is appreciated, I think it would be really cool to be able to bring these amazing mushrooms to Seattle neighborhoods too!
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latherdome
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: CubeBensies]
#11434274 - 11/11/09 02:43 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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i have nothing to contribute to this thread except my amazement that azurescens are growing in/near portland.
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canid
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: MitchKock]
#11436532 - 11/11/09 07:11 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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i'm not really surprised, nor that we're so often seeing what seem to be different active woodlovers growing right next to eachother, with all the years of guerrilla spawning going on in these cities.
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Fahkface
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: canid]
#11437871 - 11/11/09 10:02 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am now printing a bunch of azures to make spray bottles and hopefully start some urban patches like the one you found for next year
Your success rate will be a lot higher, if you just knock up some PF jars with Azure spores and either spawn it directly to out door beds (especially ones that were made by you), or spawn it to a bigger amount of wood chips and let them colonize first, before you use it as the actually outdoor spawn.
Making spore solutions and spraying it to outdoor beds is definitely better than nothing, but when you consider HOW many mushroom spores fly through the world and -compared to that- how few mushrooms are actually growing, you could conclude that there's a) a lot of competition and b) most places ain't really suitable for mushrooms to grow, for reasons you probably can't really see.
Just as an advise
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CubeBensies
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Fahkface]
#11439561 - 11/12/09 09:12 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Your success rate will be a lot higher, if you just knock up some PF jars with Azure spores and either spawn it directly to out door beds (especially ones that were made by you), or spawn it to a bigger amount of wood chips and let them colonize first, before you use it as the actually outdoor spawn.
I realize that it would work better to make spawn as you suggested but spraying chip beds is awkward enough and draws plenty of stares as it is. Hauling a bunch of spawn into public parks and digging around in beds there just seems downright sketchy. My goal is to try and introduce this species to the seattle area for the long haul, not to make personal patches. I have a huge pile of azure spores now and I am going to start spraying away today!
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Fahkface
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: CubeBensies]
#11439807 - 11/12/09 10:02 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CubeBensies said:
Quote:
Your success rate will be a lot higher, if you just knock up some PF jars with Azure spores and either spawn it directly to out door beds (especially ones that were made by you), or spawn it to a bigger amount of wood chips and let them colonize first, before you use it as the actually outdoor spawn.
I realize that it would work better to make spawn as you suggested but spraying chip beds is awkward enough and draws plenty of stares as it is. Hauling a bunch of spawn into public parks and digging around in beds there just seems downright sketchy. My goal is to try and introduce this species to the seattle area for the long haul, not to make personal patches. I have a huge pile of azure spores now and I am going to start spraying away today!
As I said, it's better than doing nothing! But when you really want to introduce this species to your town, you shouldn't hesitate to use a way, that's definitely more successful, even if it means higher costs (that are still near to zero), more time exposure and maybe some awkward reactions. BTW, it's done pretty quickly, so I wouldn't really be scared of being "busted" or "detected" 
Anyway, it's your decision and none of my concerns. In the end, I think it's a noble purpose anyway, so feel respected for it (even it it doesn't matter to you )
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Joshua
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: MitchKock]
#11490318 - 11/19/09 11:32 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Awesome find!
I can help with identification. I have a microscope and can provide a microscopic and macroscopic evaluation of your finds. I have experience with cyans, azures, and cyanofribrillosa including reference spores. Check your PM's, I sent you one.
Joshua
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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist



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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Joshua]
#11490332 - 11/19/09 11:35 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Where did you get the cyanofibrillosa reference spores?
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Dobie
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Joshua]
#11499382 - 11/21/09 02:14 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Aint seen ya post in a minute how ya been bro?
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Joshua
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#11504407 - 11/22/09 12:33 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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From personal collections.
Joshua
-------------------- The Shroomery Bookstore
Great books for inquiring minds!
"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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Joshua
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Dobie]
#11504420 - 11/22/09 12:36 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Check your PM's.
Joshua
-------------------- The Shroomery Bookstore
Great books for inquiring minds!
"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector


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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Joshua]
#11517065 - 11/24/09 06:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Joshua said: From personal collections.
Joshua
Long time, no see. Collections of Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa are scarcer than hen's teeth. A micrograph of them and a photograph of the mushrooms would go a long way to verify your claim. Most collections are something else, usually P. cyanofriscosa.
The spores in my avatar are P. caerulipes, which I found last year. The first ones ever reported with accuracy from the Shroomery.
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OverdoseLiving
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#11519706 - 11/24/09 02:23 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Interesting indeed..
One of my patches exploded with both nippled and non nippley caps this year. Its the first years this patch has actually fruited, and I am quite pleased...
I noticed yesterday how some of them have nipples and thin stems and some have thck fibrous stems with just a plain cap...
Ill post up some pictures here later on after my class if I can find my camera charger..
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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Joshua
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#11522555 - 11/24/09 08:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'll see what I can put together. I have images I will post now. The micrograph will have to wait until I get my microscope assembled. I'll work on a full description soon.
Habitat:
Growing on deciduous mulch in Corvallis, Oregon. Fruiting in early December 2004.
Pilleus:
Convex to broadly convex with age. Margin regular, slightly inturned in younger specimens. Deep brown in younger specimens fading to light tan when dry. Striation present at margin when moist. Staining blue regularly at margins and slightly through cap and where flesh is handled. Separable gelatinous pellicle present.
Gills: Adnate and adnexed, regular spacing with alternate rows present. Light brown in color.
Spores:
Purple-brown deposit. Detailed microscopy pending.
Stipe:
White when young turning brown with age. Fibrils present along length of stem. Fibrilose veil remnants present.



Joshua
-------------------- The Shroomery Bookstore
Great books for inquiring minds!
"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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wowitch17
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Re: Azurescens vs Broadly Umbonate Cyanofriscosa / 2009 Portland Psilocybe Photos [Re: Joshua]
#11523760 - 11/24/09 11:54 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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i like those pics
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