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 Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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 Re: US support of Israel [Re: Shins]
#11398905 - 11/06/09 01:49 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
it changes nothing about today anyways, but i believe; like in the twelve step program for recovery, that the first step is admitting your own mistakes.
Well at least you can admit it doesn't change anything.
If you've even read any of my posts, then you would know that I've been saying that the west HAS committed atrosities.
I haven't been the one on this thread trying to immunize one side, and demonize the other. It has been you, and the people that are arguing on your side that have tried to do this over, and over again. You want to demonize the U.S. for it's support of Israel, and our wrong doings toward the Muslim world. At the same time you try to paint a fictious image of a moderate Islam that embraces western culture, and choose to forget the long, and well documented history of agressions that the Muslim world has carried out against western interests.
This is not an issue of right, and wrong. Things are not that black in white in the real world. Bolth sides have so much blood and dirt all over their hands that it's commical to see you, and your group of lefties trying to immunize one side of their wrong doing.
And if you think that admitting your wrong means cowaring to hostile enemy, then all I have to say is I am thankful there are people on my side who have more courage then you.
Quote:
Shins said:
before you call me anti-semite, realize that most jews are converts and aren't actually semitic. i'm just about as anti-muslim and anti-christian as i am anti-semite.
might as well just call me anti-Abrahamic, it's a consequence of being pro-science.
Looking at your above statement I realized you just completely FLIP-FLOPPED. Let me show you
Earlier you said.
Quote:
Shins said:
I'm not muslim, christian or jewish, but i believe some things from each religion as well as others.
Maybe you should pick a stance and stick to it. Do you just make stuff up?
Quote:
Shins said:
as far as anti-american, i like the founding ideas of america, but i'm not really pleased with what it is becoming.
Guess what Americans don't give a fuck
Quote:
Shins said:
If we hadn't helped Britain, France Israel etc. i think that Muslims would have less reason to attack. a big part of muslum hate towards america is in how it supported those countries and their intrusion through the last century+, and how it has used to situation to for example; exploit oil reserves.
That is ground breaking information. Did you just figure that out?
The U.S. has participated in many things that are horrific, and unacceptable against the Muslim world. But if you think that means that we should complie with demands of people when they use mass murder as a means of pressuring you to complie, then you are more unintellegent then what you have already made yourself sound. If you think the Jihadis are just going to stop there fight if we change our policy then you are even less intellent then that
Quote:
Shins said:
both sides are wrong.
This is what I've been saying all along, but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to look out for the interest of my people, and my country.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
Edited by Simplicitry (11/07/09 05:47 AM)
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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I would also like to point out one more thing about your opinion that the U.S. is responsible for this conflict, and your justification of our enemies violent acts.
What about all the other Jihadi battle fields that have nothing to do with the U.S.
Lets see how hard it is to find Muslim/Non-Muslim conflicts that don't have anything to do with the U.S.
Bosnia-Herzegovena
Chechnya
Kashmir
That just off the top of my head, and it wasn't so hard. These countries do not have ties with Israel.
You can just chose to ignore the fact that the culture of eastern Islam is extremist, violent, and at war with almost all people of differing religious, and political beliefs that they have to co-exist with or share a border with. But you can't deny that there are conflicts going on between this culture, and other cultures that have nothing to do with the U.S.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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I'm going to quote one of my previous post because I would like to elaborate something related that I forgot to mention.
Simplicitry said:Quote:
Now let's look at the West (The United States, and our allies. Nato). I fought along side people of all different ethnicities, of all different religions, of many different Nationalities. I fought next to black men, and whites, hispanics, and women. We were all paid the same, and givin the same oppurtunities. Although I didn't fight along side any arabs, and only one muslim ever(big suprise huh). We have Mosques on our land. I'm a third generation American of Mexican, and Italian descent. I have a Hispanic last name, and this country made me richer then I could have ever imagined. They paid for my college, gave me a career, they don't persecute me for my religious relief. My children will grow up knowing that everyone has the right to believe in, and worship a higher power however they see fit. Again I'm hispanic, I live in America, and I'm rich. So much for your view of America being racist huh? Oh yea, and we have a black president don't we? Yea that's right we do!!
I forgot to mention that they paid for my sister to college as well.
She isn't De Facto owned by her husband.
Her testimony has the same value in a court of law as any male.
She would not be stoned to death if she were raped.
Say the same thing about a these Islamic regimes, and guess what? Your a liar.
I don't care to change the ass backwards way that these people treat one another, or govern themselves. It's none of my business how they treat one another. It's just that it doesn't fit your fictious version of Islam.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
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 GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!
Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Secret Mission Rescues Yemen's Jews
MONSEY, N.Y. -- In his new suburban American home, Shaker Yakub, a Yemeni Jew, folded a large scarf in half, wrapped it around his head and tucked in his spiraling side curls. "This is how I passed for a Muslim," said the 59-year-old father of seven, improvising a turban that hid his black skullcap.
The ploy enabled Mr. Yakub and half a dozen members of his family to slip undetected out of their native town of Raida, Yemen, and travel to the capital 50 miles to the south. There, they met U.S. State Department officials conducting a clandestine operation to bring some of Yemen's last remaining Jews to America to escape rising anti-Semitic violence in his country.
In all, about 60 Yemeni Jews have resettled in the U.S. since July; officials say another 100 could still come. There were an estimated 350 in Yemen before the operation began. Some of the remainder may go to Israel and some will stay behind, most in a government enclave.
The secret evacuation of the Yemeni Jews -- considered by historians to be one of the oldest of the Jewish diaspora communities -- is a sign of America's growing concern about this Arabian Peninsula land of 23 million.
The operation followed a year of mounting harassment, and was plotted with Jewish relief groups while Washington was signaling alarm about Yemen. In July, Gen. David Petraeus was dispatched to Yemen to encourage President Ali Abdullah Saleh to be more aggressive against al-Qaeda terrorists in the country. Last month, President Barack Obama wrote in a letter to President Saleh that Yemen's security is vital to the region and the U.S.
Yemen was overshadowed in recent years by bigger trouble spots such as Afghanistan. But it has re-emerged on Washington's radar as a potential source of regional instability and a haven for terrorists.
The impoverished nation is struggling with a Shiite revolt in the north, a secessionist movement in the south, and growing militancy among al-Qaeda sympathizers, raising concern about the government's ability to control its territory. Analysts believe al-Qaeda operatives are making alliances with local tribes that could enable it to establish a stronghold in Yemen, as it did in Afghanistan prior to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.
The State Department took something of a risk in removing the Yemenis to the U.S., as it might be criticized for favoritism at a time when refugees elsewhere are clamoring for haven. The U.S. calculated the operation would serve both a humanitarian and a geopolitical purpose. In addition to rescuing a group threatened because of its religion, Washington was seeking to prevent an international embarrassment for an embattled Arab ally.
President Saleh has been trying to protect the Jews, but his inability to quell the rebellion in the country's north made it less likely he could do so, prompting the U.S. to step in. The alternative -- risking broader attacks on the Jews -- could well have undermined the Obama administration's efforts to rally support for President Saleh in the U.S. and abroad.
"If we had not done anything, we feared there would be bloodshed," says Gregg Rickman, former State Department Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism.
Mr. Yakub says the operation saved his family from intimidation that had made life in Yemen unbearable. Violence toward the country's small remaining Jewish community began to intensify last year, when one of its most prominent members was gunned down outside his house. But the mission also hastens the demise of one of the oldest remaining Jewish communities in the Arab world.
Jews are believed to have reached what is now Yemen more than 2,500 years ago as traders for King Solomon. They survived -- and at times thrived -- over centuries of change, including the spread of Islam across the Arabian Peninsula.
"They were one of the oldest exiled groups out of Israel," says Hayim Tawil, a Yeshiva University professor who is an expert on Yemeni Jewry. "This is the end of the Jewish Diaspora of Yemen. That's it."
Centuries of near total isolation make Yemeni Jews a living link with the ancient world.
Many can recite passages of the Torah by heart and read Hebrew, but can't read their native tongue of Arabic. They live in stone houses, often without running water or electricity. One Yemeni woman showed up at the airport expecting to board her flight with a live chicken.
Through the centuries, the Jews earned a living as merchants, craftsmen and silversmiths known for designing djanbias, traditional daggers that only Muslims are allowed to carry. Jewish musical compositions became part of Yemeni culture, played at Muslim weddings and festivals.
"Yemeni Jews have always been a part of Yemeni society and have lived side by side in peace with their Muslim brothers and sisters," said a spokeswoman for the Embassy of Yemen in Washington.
In 1947, on the eve of the birth of the state of Israel, protests in the port city of Aden resulted in the death of dozens of Jews and the destruction of their homes and shops. In 1949 and 1950 about 49,000 people -- the majority of Yemen's Jewish community -- were airlifted to Israel in "Operation Magic Carpet."
About 2,000 Jews stayed in Yemen. Some trickled out until 1962, when civil war erupted. After that, they were stuck there. "For three decades, there were no telephone calls, no letters, no traveling overseas. The fact there were Jews in Yemen was barely known outside Israel," says Prof. Tawil.
After alienating the West by backing Iraq during the first Gulf War, Yemen sought a rapprochement with Washington. In 1991, it declared freedom of travel for Jews. An effort led by Prof. Tawil and brokered by the U.S. government culminated in the departure of about 1,200 Jews, mainly to Israel, in the early 1990s. Arthur Hughes, American ambassador to Yemen at the time, recalls that those who chose to remain insisted: "This is where we have been for centuries, we are okay; we're not going anywhere."
The few hundred Jews who stayed behind were concentrated in two enclaves: Saada, a remote area in Yemen's northern highlands, and Raida to the south.
In 2004, unrest erupted in Saada. The government says at least 50,000 people have been displaced by fighting between its troops and the Houthis, a Shiite rebel group.
Animosity against Jews intensified. Notes nailed to the homes of Jews accused them of working for Israel and corrupting Muslim morals. "Jews were specifically targeted by Houthi rebels," says a spokeswoman for the Yemeni embassy in Washington.
In January 2007, Houthi leaders threatened Jewish families in Saada. "We warn you to leave the area immediately... [W]e give you a period of 10 days, or you will regret it," read a letter signed by a Houthi representative cited in a Reuters article.
Virtually the entire Jewish community in the area, about 60 people, fled to the capital. Since then, they have been receiving food stipends and cash assistance from the government while living in state-owned apartments in a guarded enclave, says the Yemeni embassy in Washington.
President Saleh, a Shiite, has been eager to demonstrate goodwill toward the Jews. On the Passover holiday, he invited TV crews to videotape families in the government complex as they feasted on lamb he had ordered.
Raida became the last redoubt of Yemeni Jews, who continued to lead a simple life there alongside Muslims.
Ancient stone homes dot the town. Electricity is erratic; oil lamps are common. Water arrives via truck. Most homes lack a TV or a refrigerator. The cell phone is the only common modern device. Some families receive financial aid from Hasidic Jewish groups in Brooklyn and London, which has enabled them to buy cars.
Typically, the Jewish men are blacksmiths, shoe repairmen or carpenters. They sometimes barter, trading milk and cow dung for grass to feed their livestock. In public, the men stand out for their long side curls, customarily worn by observant Jewish men. Jewish women, who often marry by 16, rarely leave home. When they do, like Muslim women, only their eyes are exposed.
For fun, children play with pebbles and chase family chickens around the house. At Jewish religious schools, they sit at wooden tables to study Torah and Hebrew. They aren't taught subjects like science, or to read and write in Arabic, Yemen's official language.
"I showed them a multiplication table and I don't think they had ever seen one," says Stefan Kirschner, a New York University graduate student who visited Raida in August 2008 and says he sat in a few classes.
In September 2008, militants detonated a car bomb outside the U.S. Embassy in Yemen's capital of Sanaa, killing 16 people. The attack raised fresh concern about Muslim extremism and the government's stability.
Then, on Dec. 11, a lone gunman shot dead Moshe Nahari, a father of nine and well-known figure in Raida's Jewish community. Abdul-Aziz al-Abdi, a retired Air Force pilot, pumped several bullets into Mr. Nahari after the Hebrew teacher dismissed his demands that he convert to Islam. In June, the shooter was sentenced to death.
Israel's offensive against Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip later in December sparked protests in Yemen. Jewish men and children in Raida were heckled, beaten and pelted with rocks. A grenade was hurled at the house of Said Ben Yisrael, who led one of three makeshift synagogues in Raida, and landed in the courtyard of his two-story home.
From the safety of his new home in suburban New York, Mr. Yakub recounted his last months in Yemen. Rocks shattered the windows of his house and car. Except for emergencies and provisions, Jews began to avoid leaving home. When they did, Mr. Yakub and other Jews took to disguising themselves as Muslims.
"This was no way to live," he said, seated at the head of a long table surrounded by his wife and children.
Salem Suleiman, who also arrived recently in New York, bears scars from rocks that hit his head. "They throw stones at us. They curse us. They want to kill us," he said. "I didn't leave my house for two months."
New York had a community of about 2,000 Yemeni Jews. Yair Yaish, who heads the Yemenite Jewish Federation of America, says he was barraged with "desperate calls from the community here saying we have to do something to get our families out."
The U.S. Ambassador to Yemen urged Yemeni ministers to facilitate the departure. After initial reluctance -- the government preferred to give the Jews safe haven in the capital city -- Yemen agreed to issue exit permits and passports.
"It was the embassy's view, and the Department concurred, that because of their vulnerability, we should consider them for resettlement," says a spokeswoman for the State Department's Bureau of Population, Refugees and Migration.
Jewish Federations of North America raised $750,000 to help the effort. Orthodox groups also pledged to pitch in. The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society was tasked with their resettlement.
Word reached Jews in Raida that there was an American plan afoot to rescue them.
The first applicants signed up at the U.S. Embassy in January. To avoid attracting attention, families convoyed to Sanaa in taxis at dawn.
Later they traveled to a hotel for interviews with U.S. officials. To establish a case for refugee status, they had to demonstrate a well-founded fear of persecution. For many of the women, it was the first time speaking with anyone outside the home.
As news spread of their imminent departure, many families reported trouble selling property. Potential buyers offered low prices or refused to bid, thinking they could get the property free after it was deserted.
"All they have is this little house worth $15,000," says Yochi Sabari, a Jew from Raida who lives in New York and has relatives in Yemen. "They can't leave until they sell it."
About three weeks before their travel date, the U.S. embassy contacted the first four families cleared for travel. On July 7, their 17 members traveled to the airport in Sanaa and boarded a Frankfurt-bound flight.
When the Yemenis landed in New York the next day, Jewish organization officials there to greet them spotted several women cloaked in black robes, only their eyes exposed.
"The Jewish women were the ones in burqas," says Gideon Aronoff, president of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. He says he was "initially shocked."
Several families missed the two flights offered to them by the U.S. and, therefore, forfeited their chance to move here. Family members say they are having trouble disposing of assets. An undisclosed number of people have reached Israel, including the family of Mr. Ben Yisrael, whose home was the target of a grenade, and the family of Mr. Nahari, who was slain in December 2008. In the U.S., the Yemeni refugees are being settled in Monsey, a suburban enclave of ultraorthodox Jews, lined with strip malls that sell black coats and wide-rimmed hats worn by Hasidic men.
The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society's network established a Monsey office, where case managers arrange housing and disburse food stamps, cash and other refugee benefits to the Yemeni arrivals. Many of the adults, caseworkers say, aren't yet capable of budgeting, following a schedule or sitting still in a structured classroom to learn English.
On a recent morning, Mr. Suleiman, a 36-year-old father of three, retrieved an alarm clock that he received with his furnished apartment.
"I still don't know how to use this," he said. "The children have been playing with it."
Write to Miriam Jordan at miriam.jordan@wsj.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125693376195819343.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11403819 - 11/07/09 09:49 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
We buy the oil from the morons. You might as well say they exploit our money reserves. It would be equally stupid.
Most Jews are converts? Link?
There is no reason to believe that assisting the Shah to overthrow the soviet puppet was a mistake. There is plenty of reason to believe that failing to respond with the appropriate eradication of the mullahs after their invasion of the US was.
Very well said
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,451
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Quote:
And I am very much a Libritarian. The people that I've killed in this conflict had it coming. I was minding my own business until my hand was forced by the death of my country men.
Are you talking about Afghanistan, Iraq, or both? A Zogby poll from 2006 has said that 85% of the U.S. military in Iraq thought that they were there to "avenge 9-11." It wouldn't surprise me if you were in the majority here.
P.S. In Iraq, middle of the 20th century, U.S. & British intelligence helped the Ba'ath Party overthrow a (secular) government that itself came to power overthrowing the monarchy that the British had set up after the acquired influence there via the defeat of the Ottoman's in WWI... the government had offended Western oil interests by nationalizing the industry, to name the most significant reason.
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Every part of this country is sacred to my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove has been hallowed by some fond memory or some sad experience of my tribe.
Even the rocks... as they swelter in the sun along the silent seashore in solemn grandeur thrill with memories of past events... and the very dust under your feet responds more lovingly to our footsteps than to yours, because it is the ashes of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch, for the soil is rich with the life of our kindred.
And when the last red man shall have perished from the earth and his memory among white men shall have become a myth, these shores shall swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe.
- Chief Seattle
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 15 hours, 40 minutes
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
And I am very much a Libritarian. The people that I've killed in this conflict had it coming. I was minding my own business until my hand was forced by the death of my country men.
Are you talking about Afghanistan, Iraq, or both? A Zogby poll from 2006 has said that 85% of the U.S. military in Iraq thought that they were there to "avenge 9-11." It wouldn't surprise me if you were in the majority here.
Link?Quote:
P.S. In Iraq, middle of the 20th century, U.S. & British intelligence helped the Ba'ath Party overthrow a (secular) government that itself came to power overthrowing the monarchy that the British had set up after the acquired influence there via the defeat of the Ottoman's in WWI... the government had offended Western oil interests by nationalizing the industry, to name the most significant reason.
Mossadegh came to power as a Soviet puppet. You are so charmingly naive sometimes. By the way, the Ba'athist were also secular. What that has to do with anything is mysterious.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11405055 - 11/07/09 12:38 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mossadegh came to power as a Soviet puppet.
You or Churchhill saying so doesn't make it true. Back up this assertion. He was not part of the small pro-Soviet Tudeh Party.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Are you talking about Afghanistan, Iraq, or both? A Zogby poll from 2006 has said that 85% of the U.S. military in Iraq thought that they were there to "avenge 9-11." It wouldn't surprise me if you were in the majority here.
I fought on both fronts. While I understand what anle your working above, it's not going to work on me. I am more educated then that. I know that you would get into how Iraq never attacked my homeland. But I completely disagree with this logic because the Islamic enemy operates, and is supported by many Muslim Countries. In this way the conflict transends the borders of the enemies countries. I personally fough Al-Quidea on Iraqi soil. My enemy was definitly present while I was there. The Islamic enemy does not unite under a flag of a common country, They come from many different countries. So, this is not a convevtional war in that sense, and the same rules don't apply.
Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
P.S. In Iraq, middle of the 20th century, U.S. & British intelligence helped the Ba'ath Party overthrow a (secular) government that itself came to power overthrowing the monarchy that the British had set up after the acquired influence there via the defeat of the Ottoman's in WWI... the government had offended Western oil interests by nationalizing the industry, to name the most significant reason.
It's not my fault that they can't keep control of their governments. What about their responsibility to take care of their own problems. You seem to conveiniently forget that it is their own leaders corruption, and greed that puts them in a place to be taken advantage of foriegn influences.
You see, people like you want to go around and blame the U.S. for all of the problem going on in OTHER PEOPLES countries.
It's like a homeless person who complains about how hard life is, and how they are mistreated by the sytem. They always have 101 crutches that they use for their own faults. Racism, Elitism, it's white people holding them down. When it's some ass backwards white hill billy he uses a different crutch (since he can't blame white people). To them it's affirmitive action, Jews, socialists.
When in reality almost all the time it's the fact that the person doesn't have what it takes to make something better for themselves.
Muslims blaming other people for the downfalls will get them nothing. They are the only ones that can change it from the inside.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
Edited by Simplicitry (11/07/09 12:41 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 15 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11405180 - 11/07/09 01:00 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
Mossadegh came to power as a Soviet puppet.
You or Churchhill saying so doesn't make it true. Back up this assertion. He was not part of the small pro-Soviet Tudeh Party.
No. That doesn't mean he wasn't a Soviet puppet. Nor did the CIA install the shah.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11405244 - 11/07/09 01:13 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Support your claim.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 15 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11405293 - 11/07/09 01:23 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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With what? British and American charges? Would you like a KGB dossier? In 1950 Iran you were either a Soviet tool or an Anglo tool.
Or maybe he was a puppet of the Shah, who appointed him prime minister?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11405364 - 11/07/09 01:34 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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So essentially you can't back up your claim.
Quote:
British and American charges?
Which wouldn't be biased by the fact that they wanted him out so they could keep their oil company?
Quote:
In 1950 Iran you were either a Soviet tool or an Anglo tool.
Again, this another is a unsubstantiated claim.
Quote:
Or maybe he was a puppet of the Shah, who appointed him prime minister?
Anyone who knows anything about the situation back then knows he was not a puppet of the Shah. The Shah was terrified of him and his popularity.
Just admit that you have no evidence whatsoever that this claim you love to repeat has any merit and we can call it a day.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 15 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11405604 - 11/07/09 02:11 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Shah appointed him Prime Minister.
Just who do you feel would be qualified to make that claim?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11405628 - 11/07/09 02:17 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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No shit the Shah appointed him. Mossadegh was so popular that it would have been insane not to.
Qualified has nothing to do with it. It's not about who is saying it, but that they can back what they say up.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11405633 - 11/07/09 02:18 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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When it comes to the issue of us interferring with Iran back then, I'm not goint to try, and make excueses for what we did.
We did what we did, and it can't be changed now. It definily did revolve around the Cold War though, and trying to minimize Soviet influence over the oil rich middle east.
You do accept that much of the history don't you?
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 15 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11405651 - 11/07/09 02:21 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
No shit the Shah appointed him. Mossadegh was so popular that it would have been insane not to.
Qualified has nothing to do with it. It's not about who is saying it, but that they can back what they say up.
So you want something direct from the KGB archives, then? I'm serious. What would satisfy you in this area? If not Churchill, then who?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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That was the reasoning that the President accepted for it. That much is true. I do think, however, that we got hoodwinked by the British into doing it so they could get their oil company back.
It also is true that the Soviets badly wanted Iran and its oil. It's questionable at best, though, that Mossadegh wanted to be or was a Soviet lackey.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11405675 - 11/07/09 02:24 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Redstorm said:
No shit the Shah appointed him. Mossadegh was so popular that it would have been insane not to.
Qualified has nothing to do with it. It's not about who is saying it, but that they can back what they say up.
So you want something direct from the KGB archives, then? I'm serious. What would satisfy you in this area? If not Churchill, then who?
You have to be out of your goddamn mind if you think Churchill was a credible source when there were clear ulterior motives for getting Mossadegh out. You can't possibly be this naive.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11405710 - 11/07/09 02:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
That was the reasoning that the President accepted for it. That much is true. I do think, however, that we got hoodwinked by the British into doing it so they could get their oil company back.
It also is true that the Soviets badly wanted Iran and its oil. It's questionable at best, though, that Mossadegh wanted to be or was a Soviet lackey.
I'm not being a smart ass when I say this, but do you, or don't you believe that to be part of the actual history? Or do you believe that the U.S. did for an English oil company?
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
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