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 dstark
Yes you can but you may Not!
 
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 Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11395004 - 11/05/09 10:22 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok!
So ill start agar work today or in a few days - have a work, hardly find a minute to breath...
I will strain and dry it out in oven today 
Thanks for all the help Carsten!
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blackout
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11403726 - 11/07/09 09:34 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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When I was rehydrating my grains I added a little LC, I have always had problems with contams with over wet grains. Then after a few days I added more LC, this was all in sterile conditions though.
I am currently growing PE cubensis on PC'd grain which was quite dry, the growth was slow to take off and I have since added more and more water to it and it is really taking off. I like this idea since it means the myc can take hold on the semi-dry grain and form its own defences, then I add more and more water later.
I am not sure if I would add grain to an excess of LC to soak, LC's are usually said to be prone to contams. My reasoning for adding a little LC is that the grains will suck the moisture out of the LC, leaving the myc strands on the surface of the grains.
I would not like the idea of sugars at all. You could have a proper PC'd master jar of colonised grain and inject sterile water shake and suck up myc so there is no sugar involved.
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c-ray
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: blackout]
#11432011 - 11/11/09 08:44 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have some experience with sourdough and was thinking I might make a sourdough culture using flour from the same type of grain as the type to be fermented, then use the sourdough as a seed to kickstart the fermentation of the whole grains. Will let y'all know how it goes.
Also in keeping with the thread title I read recently that in the philippines and indonesia where they don't have access to fancy pc's they are just using a 55 gallon drum with some water at the bottom and a simple wire shelf to keep the sub bags out of the water. They light a fire under the barrel and boil the bags in the barrel for 8-12 hours. They claim that the grains are altered less in this way, less damaged, and that they are able to get more flushes.
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dstark
Yes you can but you may Not!
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: c-ray]
#11432270 - 11/11/09 09:45 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Welcome to the shroomery buddy 
Experimenting is 
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ddreamer
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11905352 - 01/26/10 12:18 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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hey Mycelio i'm giving your method a try with straw, so far it's colonizing really slowly, the grain spawn i mixed in is making fuzzballs but it doesn't really colonize the straw, is just sticks to the straw around that touches it but doesn't travel/invade the straw.
is this due to ph?
my temps are quite low but should be good enough with time (been 2 weeks by now)
it smells ok and healthy.
i let the straw soak for 1 weak outside in water with cold weather.
is this normal?
can i expect the colonization to improve at any point?
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: ddreamer]
#11905503 - 01/26/10 12:44 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi, if I ferment straw, I keep it submerged for 10 to 14 days at room temperature. After one week in the cold, the fermentation process won't be finished, but that is usually no problem.
What you describe, sounds like ongoing fermentation and not enough oxygen for the mycelium. If available, lactic acid bacteria and yeast use a lot of oxygen, so you better increase FAE. As it still smells OK, your chances are high, that the mycelium will take over soon.
Carsten
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ddreamer
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11909593 - 01/27/10 12:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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ok i'll try fanning once a day, will this trigger fruiting ? i doubt it as it isn't fully colonized
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ddreamer
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: ddreamer]
#11909695 - 01/27/10 01:08 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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today colonization is looking better already!
if bacteria uses up oxygen this should be good as colonization thrieves off CO2, although air exchange might still be beneficial.
Edited by ddreamer (01/27/10 01:56 AM)
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 grischnackh
Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 238
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking *DELETED* [Re: Mycelio]
#12285582 - 03/27/10 09:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by grischnackhReason for deletion: /
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: grischnackh]
#12285752 - 03/27/10 10:49 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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So you added an oyster mushroom to something and it went green...
You need to give way more details, if you expect advice.
Carsten
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grischnackh
Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 238
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking *DELETED* [Re: Mycelio]
#12285879 - 03/27/10 11:42 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by grischnackhReason for deletion: /
Edited by grischnackh (03/27/10 11:43 PM)
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: grischnackh]
#12286112 - 03/28/10 01:27 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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All steps seem to be correct, though I wouldn't rinse mushroom pieces. If you want to clean them, you can pull off a thin layer from the outside.
Anyway, if kernels turn green after three days, mold must have been growing there before inoculation. Did you notice lots of floating kernels during fermentation? Those ones often catch or hide mold, which survives at the surface. The last times I removed all the swimmers.
Carsten
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grischnackh
Registered: 11/28/09
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking *DELETED* [Re: Mycelio]
#12286128 - 03/28/10 01:34 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by grischnackhReason for deletion: /
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c-ray
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: grischnackh]
#12420799 - 04/19/10 12:54 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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according to this patent they are growing mushrooms from ensilaged (fermented) corn stalks
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20090430&CC=MD&NR=3873F1&KC=F1
Quote:
The invention refers to biotechnology, particularly to a process for cultivation of mushroom Pleurotus ostreatus (JACQ.:FR) KUMM. - producer of carpophores and can be applied in mushroom growing. The proposed process includes preparation of the nutrient substrate from corn vegetal mass, inoculation thereof with mushroom culture, incubation and growing. At the same time as vegetal mass are used corn stems which are subjected to lactic-acid fermentation by ensilage in trenches, and before inoculation the substrate is drawn out from the trenches and kept in bulk during 2...3 days, afterwards to the mass is added 5...6% of calcium sulphate and incubation of substrate is carried out at the temperature of 19...25 degree C, and growing is carried out at the temperature of 12...16 degree C, the humidity of 80...90% and lighting of 50...100 lx during 12 hours/day.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: c-ray]
#12436693 - 04/22/10 08:19 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice find. It seems they used green corn straw without submerging in water, but probably covered with plastic foil. I have grown Pearl, King, Phoenix and Elm oysters on fermented wheat and corn straw several times and I am sure more types of agricultural wastes are suited. The addition of high nitrogen supplements like alfalfa or coffee grounds is also possible, though you better add them after three days, when the lactic acid fermentation already started.
Carsten
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ILBIACCO
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#14107469 - 03/12/11 03:43 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I like this tek, Mycelio.
Thank you for opening this thread, it's really useful.
I think everybody should know that is possible to grow some mushrooms without using a pressure cooker, a glove box...and so on.
Useful for a beginner like me, a lazy cultivator, and why not, an expert cultivator who wants to try something new.
I'm trying this tek with pleurotus ostreatus, bought at supermarket,
complying with your instruction, as written in the first post.
3 jars with kernels of oats incubated at room temperatures, started 15 days ago.
1 jar seems going well, the others have some problems.
I would like to do some questions:
- Have you noticed any differences utilizing market oysters rather than mushrooms that you have cultivated ? I'm asking this cause in one jar the growing seems to be stopped, suddenly. Could the senescence of the tissue be the problem?
- In another jar, one little green mold is appeared yesterday. Can i save somehow this jar? Is there any chance that the market oyster could overcome the mold?
- Have you never tried to put some stem butts not only upon the surface, but also in the middle of the jar , between the kernels? Maybe this could speed up the colonization but the tissue can rot.
- In one month a very tasty mushroom will make his appearance. Coprinus Comatus. Have you had good results with Shaggy Mane?
And as far as the pioppino? Agrocybe Aegerita?
--------------------
I've been waiting for her for so long
Open the sky and let her come down
Here comes the rain
Here she comes again
I love the rain
Rain Rain Rain
(The Cult)
Edited by ILBIACCO (03/12/11 03:46 AM)
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: ILBIACCO]
#14118612 - 03/14/11 08:47 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Hi ILBIACCO,
Quote:
ILBIACCO said:
- Have you noticed any differences utilizing market oysters rather than mushrooms that you have cultivated ? I'm asking this cause in one jar the growing seems to be stopped, suddenly. Could the senescence of the tissue be the problem?
In all my tries I have never encountered senescence, but sometimes store bought mushrooms are old and already dieing, so it might take longer and initial mycelium growth might be weak or contaminated.
Quote:
ILBIACCO said:
- In another jar, one little green mold is appeared yesterday. Can i save somehow this jar? Is there any chance that the market oyster could overcome the mold?
Depending on the mold species, it's not impossible, but unlikely. Your jar is already full of mold spores, so at least separate it from the others.
Quote:
ILBIACCO said:
- Have you never tried to put some stem butts not only upon the surface, but also in the middle of the jar , between the kernels? Maybe this could speed up the colonization but the tissue can rot.
I did, but it does not work. There is not enough oxygen below the surface.
Quote:
ILBIACCO said:
- In one month a very tasty mushroom will make his appearance. Coprinus Comatus. Have you had good results with Shaggy Mane?
And as far as the pioppino? Agrocybe Aegerita?
I only tried C.c. a few times where most of them died. A.a. might work better.
Carsten
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ILBIACCO
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 Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#14129413 - 03/16/11 06:43 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Ciao Mycelio.
Thank you for the answers.
I will be happy to do an attempt with Pioppino, as soon as i will find it in the wild. I don't think to have to wait too much time.
I'll bring you up to date.
As far as coprinus comatus, probably, the environment inside the jar with fermented grain is too wet and the stem rots.
What a shame! Therefore i think that to create spawn for outdoor beds i'll put the Shaggy mane stem butts between pieces of dump cardboard.
But you Mycelio, had you never have green mold inside a jar with fermented stuff? And so far what has given you the best results? Oat, wheat, corn, straw...
--------------------
I've been waiting for her for so long
Open the sky and let her come down
Here comes the rain
Here she comes again
I love the rain
Rain Rain Rain
(The Cult)
Edited by ILBIACCO (03/17/11 04:17 AM)
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: ILBIACCO]
#14130487 - 03/16/11 11:28 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Yes, also some of my experiments went green, but only when the inoculated material had been moldy before. When working with parts of outdoor mushrooms or store bought and old ones, make sure there is no dirt on them. Perhaps peel off some outer tissue and consider placing them on cardboard or a tiny amount of straw or sawdust first. It works best, if you can cover the fermented grain with a layer of colonized material.
The easiest type of grain is wheat, as it is the easiest to start sourdough with. I often mixed it with rye, oats or millet, which worked fine too. Only pure rice once failed completely.
For the Coprinus, I remember it was the fastest mycelium on fermented straw, even faster than any pleurotus. Just take care to press out excess water after the fermentation, it must not be soggy and wet.
Carsten
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ILBIACCO
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 Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#14135343 - 03/17/11 04:47 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Ok. I have already had experiences of growing utilizing cardboard.
In this moment a big wood (poplar), cut in two pieces with cardboard spawn in the middle, it is producing some little oysters at my home.
Perhaps, if i obtain some decent fruits i will post some pics.
As far bought and wild mushrooms, your idea to bypass the dirt seems very interesting. I could peel off a big piece of market oyster (in the wild i'm not able to find this mush )put on cardboard and then lay it upon the fermented grains. I will do this experiment with a corn fermented jar who is almost ready.(The fermentation is started one week ago).
Thanks for the advices.
--------------------
I've been waiting for her for so long
Open the sky and let her come down
Here comes the rain
Here she comes again
I love the rain
Rain Rain Rain
(The Cult)
Edited by ILBIACCO (03/17/11 05:03 AM)
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